Barnier to UK MPs: Agree alternative to stop no deal

[webfact]

Barnier to UK MPs: Agree alternative to stop no deal

By Gabriela Baczynska and Alastair Macdonald

 

European Union's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier delivers a speech during a debate onBREXIT after the vote on british Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit deal, at the European Parliament in Strasbourg, France, January 16, 2019. REUTERS/Vincent Kessler/Files

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - EU negotiator Michel Barnier warned British lawmakers on Wednesday that their disparate efforts to amend, delay or thwart Brexit will see Britain crash out of the EU in March if they cannot rally behind one alternative.

 

Referring to parliament's rejection of a negotiated withdrawal treaty and raging cross-party debate about preventing a March 29 departure without a deal to cushion businesses and people, Barnier said the House of Commons faced a choice:

 

"There are two possible ways to leave the EU," he told a gathering of business and labour leaders in Brussels. "Number one -- an orderly withdrawal based on the agreement that we have built step-by-step with the UK over the last 18 months.

 

"Number two -- a disorderly withdrawal.

 

"Leaving the EU without a deal is the default scenario and there appears to be a majority in the House of Commons to oppose a no-deal. But opposing no-deal will not stop no-deal from happening at the end of March. To stop no-deal, another majority will have to emerge," said the former French minister, speaking in English to drive home his message to British politicians.

 

Referring to the need to build a majority behind an alternative to a no deal, he added: "This is the objective of the political consultations that Theresa May has started and we hope, sincerely we hope, that this process will be successful."

 

Prime Minister May has said she will seek amendments to the existing deal to try to overcome massive resistance even within her own party, but some of her own Conservatives in parliament are working with Labour opponents to pass legislation that seeks to force May to seek a delay in leaving rather than exit without a deal.

 

EXTENSION QUESTIONS

Asked by several people from the floor of the conference of the European Economic and Social Committee, including several representatives of British and Irish businesses, if the Brexit deadline of March 29 could be put back, Barnier was cautious.

 

He noted that a request for extension to the deadline under Article 50 of the EU treaty would have to come from the British government, which has not done so yet. It would then have to be approved unanimously by the other 27 national leaders.

 

"If this question is presented, they will have questions for the British government: What is it for, what is the purpose? For how long?" Barnier said.

 

Referring to elections to the European Parliament in late May, he also said any extension to Britain's membership of the EU should not "disrupt the democratic functioning of European institutions". Some EU officials say Britain might have to hold its own EU legislative election if it is not leaving by July.

 

Barnier restated his readiness to swiftly revise plans linked to the withdrawal treaty for a future trade pact with Britain if London changed its "red lines". May rules out staying in a customs union with the EU, while Labour favours that.

 

A customs union could ease problems with guarantees on the Irish border that anger many British lawmakers, though Barnier again stressed that, while it did not expect those guarantees to be used, the EU would not ease its support for Ireland.

 

(Additional reporting by Jan Strupczewski, Editing by William Maclean)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-01-24

[whatsupdoc]

As always, sensible comments by Mr. Barnier.

Will people on the foggy isles listen? Nah... They are too busy negotiating with themselves.

[terryw]

He is worried that 2 years work will be rejected by the UK, so his plan to replace Junker will fail.

[thaibear]

Barnier et al his thieving unelected bureaucrats flapping because they know it will be the start of the destruction of their gravy train. Default is no deal and out, follow the path and the wishes of the majority to leave. Barnier and his fellow crooks can mull over where they went wrong trying to bully the British people, No to the backstop, No to May's Deal, Yes to No Deal. 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, thaibear said:

Barnier et al his thieving unelected bureaucrats flapping because they know it will be the start of the destruction of their gravy train. Default is no deal and out, follow the path and the wishes of the majority to leave. Barnier and his fellow crooks can mull over where they went wrong trying to bully the British people, No to the backstop, No to May's Deal, Yes to No Deal. 

They reckon that Yvettes Cooper amendment could delay leaving for up to 3 months, her own constituency of Pontefract, Castleford and Normanton voted by 70% to leave, the voters of West Yorkshire will hopefully not forget her actions.

[soalbundy]

9 minutes ago, thaibear said:

Barnier et al his thieving unelected bureaucrats flapping because they know it will be the start of the destruction of their gravy train. Default is no deal and out, follow the path and the wishes of the majority to leave. Barnier and his fellow crooks can mull over where they went wrong trying to bully the British people, No to the backstop, No to May's Deal, Yes to No Deal. 

and a 20% drop in the pounds value, I'm so happy that 90% of my pension is in Euro's.

[OneMoreFarang]

The EU position was the same for the last couple of years and it will remain the same. It's based on logical thinking what is best for the EU.

The UK citizens and politicians came up with many different Brexit versions of the last years. Most of them are wishful thinking and it's obvious they will never happen. And lots of very different positions exist within all political parties and it seems most politicians are a lot more interested in their jobs and their parties and not so much interested what is best for the country.

Will the UK politicians find a solution until the end of March? I doubt it. Will any possible delay help them to find a solution? Unlikely.

Maybe it's best if the UK just leaves the EU with no deal. Then they can be successful with the rest of the world (or at least dream it will happen) and the EU can concentrate again on more important issues.

[Grouse]

I posted Ivan Rogers' speech on the main Brexit thread. Recommended.

[melvinmelvin]

Barnier must be pretty serious now.

For him to speak English in Strasbourg is pretty odd, to say the least.

 

Too bad for the UK that TM is still around, otherwise there might have been

room for some fixes.

 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The EU position was the same for the last couple of years and it will remain the same. It's based on logical thinking what is best for the EU.

The UK citizens and politicians came up with many different Brexit versions of the last years. Most of them are wishful thinking and it's obvious they will never happen. And lots of very different positions exist within all political parties and it seems most politicians are a lot more interested in their jobs and their parties and not so much interested what is best for the country.

Will the UK politicians find a solution until the end of March? I doubt it. Will any possible delay help them to find a solution? Unlikely.

Maybe it's best if the UK just leaves the EU with no deal. Then they can be successful with the rest of the world (or at least dream it will happen) and the EU can concentrate again on more important issues.

"Will the UK politicians find a solution until the end of March? I doubt it. Will any possible delay help them to find a solution? Unlikely.

Maybe it's best if the UK just leaves the EU with no deal."

 

Agree entirely, especially as I'm pretty sure a reasonable deal would 'suddenly' appear from nowhere IF the uk declared the deal agreed between may and the eu was unacceptable, and consequently the uk was leaving on the 29th March with no deal.....

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Will the UK politicians find a solution until the end of March? I doubt it. Will any possible delay help them to find a solution? Unlikely.

Maybe it's best if the UK just leaves the EU with no deal."

 

Agree entirely, especially as I'm pretty sure a reasonable deal would 'suddenly' appear from nowhere IF the uk declared the deal agreed between may and the eu was unacceptable, and consequently the uk was leaving on the 29th March with no deal.....

Where should this "reasonable deal" come from? And how could it possibly look like?

The EU is clearly not holding back any deal. Especially the Irish Backstop makes sense to guarantee peace.

When will the UK politicians and UK citizens realize that the EU can't and won't deliver the impossible.

You can't have that cake and eat it. It's just not possible, even if you want it very much. It' impossible!

[melvinmelvin]

41 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Where should this "reasonable deal" come from? And how could it possibly look like?

The EU is clearly not holding back any deal. Especially the Irish Backstop makes sense to guarantee peace.

When will the UK politicians and UK citizens realize that the EU can't and won't deliver the impossible.

You can't have that cake and eat it. It's just not possible, even if you want it very much. It' impossible!

what exactly is impossible?

 

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, Benroon said:

As it was directed at British lawmakers, not really.

they have excellent interpretation services

it is very odd indeed, rare

 

[Basil B]

there is a 3rd option, withdraw article 50 and use section 20(4) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to  cancel exit day.

Quote

(4) A Minister of the Crown may by regulations— (a) amend the definition of “exit day” in subsection (1) to ensure that the day and time specified in the definition are the day and time that the Treaties are to cease to apply to the United Kingdom, and (b) amend subsection (2) in consequence of any such amendment.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/pdfs/ukpga_20180016_en.pdf

[dick dasterdly]

27 minutes ago, Basil B said:

there is a 3rd option, withdraw article 50 and use section 20(4) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to  cancel exit day.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/pdfs/ukpga_20180016_en.pdf

Do you honestly believe this will go down well with the electorate?

 

Even (most?) remainers would be a bit disturbed at this tactic to completely ignore the referendum result?

[tomacht8]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The EU position was the same for the last couple of years and it will remain the same. It's based on logical thinking what is best for the EU.

The UK citizens and politicians came up with many different Brexit versions of the last years. Most of them are wishful thinking and it's obvious they will never happen. And lots of very different positions exist within all political parties and it seems most politicians are a lot more interested in their jobs and their parties and not so much interested what is best for the country.

Will the UK politicians find a solution until the end of March? I doubt it. Will any possible delay help them to find a solution? Unlikely.

Maybe it's best if the UK just leaves the EU with no deal. Then they can be successful with the rest of the world (or at least dream it will happen) and the EU can concentrate again on more important issues.

I can only agree with that.
Time and patience are over.
What's the use to negotiate and agree a divorce deal with the UK government, if the government does not have a majority in parliament?
The UK government is defacto incapacitated.
The UK sends its negotiating representatives, negotiates and in the end the whole is again hot air.
It is better to finish the whole theater and not waste any more time.

The economic and geopolitical damage is there anyway.

[welovesundaysatspace]

24 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Do you honestly believe this will go down well with the electorate?

Yes. 

 

24 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Even (most?) remainers would be a bit disturbed at this tactic to completely ignore the referendum result?

Since such decision would be based on having considered the referendum result (and all other Information available), the referendum result hasn’t been ignored. 

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

I can only agree with that.
Time and patience are over.
What's the use to negotiate and agree a divorce deal with the UK government, if the government does not have a majority in parliament?
The UK government is defacto incapacitated.
The UK sends its negotiating representatives, negotiates and in the end the whole is again hot air.
It is better to finish the whole theater and not waste any more time.

The economic and geopolitical damage is there anyway.

 

I'll wager a fiver and a pint that you don't get parliament to do no-deal.

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

24 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Do you honestly believe this will go down well with the electorate?

Yes. 

 

24 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Even (most?) remainers would be a bit disturbed at this tactic to completely ignore the referendum result?

Since such decision would be based on having considered the referendum result (and all other Information available), the referendum result hasn’t been ignored. 

[Krataiboy]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

and a 20% drop in the pounds value, I'm so happy that 90% of my pension is in Euro's.

Bully for youd. But looking at the plight of most EU countries and the state of the Italian banking system, your gloating may prove to be premature.

[Thingamabob]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

what exactly is impossible?

 

No deal will be best for Britain, no doubt about it.

[OneMoreFarang]

54 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I'll wager a fiver and a pint that you don't get parliament to do no-deal.

It will be a no-deal by default. If they don't get a majority for anything else it will be a no-deal.

And even if there is a majority against no-deal there is currently no majority for anything else.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Do you honestly believe this will go down well with the electorate?

 

Even (most?) remainers would be a bit disturbed at this tactic to completely ignore the referendum result?

As it has turned out to be such a damn silly idea, I don't think anyone cares what the huddled masses of C- and D demographic classes think anymore. If you ask them, they dont understand anything. Why should we humour morons? just because they form some kind of majority? A coalition of the ignorant?

[melvinmelvin]

22 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It will be a no-deal by default. If they don't get a majority for anything else it will be a no-deal.

And even if there is a majority against no-deal there is currently no majority for anything else.

right

but as time goes, I would not be surprised if parliament picks may-deal 0ut of the bin and agree to it

 

[Grouse]

Andrew Marr's History of Modern Britain second episode is on BBC 4 now. Really excellent.

 

(I'll see if there is game show on ITV for the Brexiters)

[melvinmelvin]

49 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

No deal will be best for Britain, no doubt about it.

that may be so, but as of now

you have a whole democratically elected UK national assembly not agreeing with that

you have a PM and cabinet not agreeing with that

you have the large parties Labour and Tory not agreeing with that

You have EU not agreeing with that

 

the doubt is omni present across UK and across EU

 

 

 

 

[dunroaming]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

They reckon that Yvettes Cooper amendment could delay leaving for up to 3 months, her own constituency of Pontefract, Castleford and Normanton voted by 70% to leave, the voters of West Yorkshire will hopefully not forget her actions.

The 70% of her constituents who voted to leave didn't vote to leave with no deal.  They were promised a deal and an easy to achieve one at that.  What Coopers delay is for is to allow more time for a deal to be struck.  She is not calling for Brexit to be cancelled.

 

As the calls for a second referendum gather a pace it is interesting how the Brexiteers in parliament are softening their view of May's deal.  Even Boris said that with a bit of tweaking it might be OK! 

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Do you honestly believe this will go down well with the electorate?

 

Even (most?) remainers would be a bit disturbed at this tactic to completely ignore the referendum result?

I think you will find (a lot of the) remainers would accept Brexit if it was the Brexit that we were all told it would be. Not what we wanted but if the promises had been kept then one we could all live with.  As it is everyone is being let down and all you get from May is the threat of "my deal or no deal".  If people knew the consequences of no deal very few would have voted for that and we wouldn't be where we are today.

[vogie]

39 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

The 70% of her constituents who voted to leave didn't vote to leave with no deal.  They were promised a deal and an easy to achieve one at that.  What Coopers delay is for is to allow more time for a deal to be struck.  She is not calling for Brexit to be cancelled.

 

As the calls for a second referendum gather a pace it is interesting how the Brexiteers in parliament are softening their view of May's deal.  Even Boris said that with a bit of tweaking it might be OK! 

Everybody that voted in the referendum were given information as to whether leave or remain, people made their decision mainly on that basis. They were told we would be leaving the single market and the customs union + many other things and chose what they thought was best for themselves. Yvette Cooper has openly admitted that her bill actually solves nothing, so it would appear she is just kicking the can down the road. She is having talks behind closed doors with Anna Soubry and Dominic Grieve and we know their intentions don't we. Nobody really knows what her motives are, it would make sense though, would it not that the longer brexit drags on for the more chance there is of stopping brexit or even getting a deal that more or less equates to still being in the EU.

 

And lets not forget the EU have a say in this, they have said if you don't offer anything new, it would be pointless extending article 50.

 

You may be correct in your view though that some brexiteers opinions are softening to Mays deal.

 

 

 

 

[Loiner]

As it has turned out to be such a damn silly idea, I don't think anyone cares what the huddled masses of C- and D demographic classes think anymore. If you ask them, they dont understand anything. Why should we humour morons? just because they form some kind of majority? A coalition of the ignorant?

The C- and Ds give even less of a fig about the opinions of the chattering classes like you. They don’t like being called morons either.
Their ‘more information’ over the past couple of years has only emphasised how much they were tricked into the EU and how much they are despised by the politicians.
Prepare for an even bigger coalition of the ignorant in future. And there’s more of them than you lot!


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