For better or worse? Expats think Thailand is going down the pan, poll

[Fex Bluse]

6 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

No, let's not use "ignorant" either. You just stated you treat them with "respect". It appears you don't. How you "treat" someone includes how you "talk" about them. You state they don't show respect towards you. I'm not at all surprised with your attitude towards them that most likely is very obvious to most folks. 

 

You are "better"? No human is better than another. We were all created equally. Best of luck with your life sir.

In person, I treat them with respect. In private, I can share how I feel. Surely, you would know that is what most of us adults do. We are civil with one another so that we can get along in this society. 

 

I'm OK if it is obvious to them that I'm not very keen on them as it is no different from their end and wouldn't ever have been any different. They are simply good at pretending away their intense xenophobia. 

 

Thanks for the well wishes for my life. I'm doing quite well. We don't need to be doormats for these so often arrogant, incompetent and xenophobic people. Stand up for yourself before they've struck a severe blow against you. 

[jabis]

13 minutes ago, Spidey said:

No chance. Farangs in Pattaya don't have hair.

They prefer wigs? ???? But seriosly Cha Am was like a paleontology trip - tho I had fun with my elderly grandad, mom and aunts ???? Felt like a quantum leap to the late sixty of my own life mostly (presuming I make it that far ???? ) 

[HuskerDo]

3 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

In person, I treat them with respect. In private, I can share how I feel. Surely, you would know that is what most of us adults do. We are civil with one another so that we can get along in this society. 

 

I'm OK if it is obvious to them that I'm not very keen on them as it is no different from their end and wouldn't ever have been any different. They are simply good at pretending away their intense xenophobia. 

 

Thanks for the well wishes for my life. I'm doing quite well. We don't need to be doormats for these so often arrogant, incompetent and xenophobic people. Stand up for yourself before they've struck a severe blow against you. 

WOW! I have no words for that. It's interesting that you seem to very much dislike the people of the country you voluntarily chose to move to. Very odd indeed. Why not leave if it's so hard for you to accept the folks that are native to that country? Confusing.  

[Fex Bluse]

7 hours ago, sirineou said:

I am reminded old the old adage, "watch what you wish for, you just might get it"

For years people in this forum have being complaining about conditions in Thailand and wish Thailand was more like the west. And Thailand has being improving, but those improvement come with a price tag.  Now we complain the price tag is getting too high. Well, the more Thailand becomes like the west the more it will cost like the west , You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

This idea that 1) Thailand is improving in some considerable way and 2) that as soon as it does, it will be as expensive as western countries is very silly and shows a fundamental lack of economics education. 

 

Show me where costs of doing business in Thailand match any advanced economy. The average annual income in Thailand is still under 10,000 USD equivalent. How is it they can pay so little in income and benefits and still charge western or higher prices? 

 

What you may misunderstand is that the prices are detached from the value, the market is not competitive because the Thai oligarchs make sure foreign companies cannot succeed in the market and all the additional wealth generated goes directly into the pockets of said Thai oligarchs. 

[Naam]

10 hours ago, bowerboy said:

Again though i do know that it can take a lot of money to get back into your home country if you decide to go back and that it just may not be financially possible for everyone..in that case then the situation is different

please enlighten me why it can take a lot of money to move back. all it takes is a ticket, a few days in a hotel/AirBnB and a couple of months rent. please consider my question a rhetorical one if the cost for a ticket, hotel and rent is "a lot of money".

[faraday]

I think a few people on here don't actually live in Thailand - realised this last January.

 

They come swaggering on here trying to put everyone right, & just look a bit pathetic.

 

 

[Naam]

8 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

On 1/26/2019 at 12:34 AM, Booboo101 said:

As for prices, I have a nice pool villa, no mortgage, my electric is 1,500 a month, water 80 baht,  1,000 a month on diesel and my lunch every day is 60 baht, I don’t know anywhere in the world I could live like this !

Research Thailand Financial Crisis 1997.

for an expat the '97 crisis made every even much cheaper.

[Naam]

7 hours ago, yogi100 said:

We've seen footage of former home owners reduced to living in tents in the USA, said to be the richest country in the world!

said by ignorants.

[Naam]

6 hours ago, HalfLight said:

One of the major challenges of living in Thailand (for me) lies in the absence of many of the things we take for granted in civilisd countries. Thailand is not civilised in comparison to European, American or Australasian countries. I live upcountry in TL, so it's even worse than BKK.

uncivilised² indeed! in Thailand i miss the joy of several days hard work to prepare my annual income tax return. it gets extremely boring buying or selling a financial asset without a couple of hours (sometimes many more) research what future tax implications that buy or sell order has. also uncivilised are/is:

-the low prices for gasoline, diesel and LPG.

-the ridiculous low cost for vehicle insurance, road tax and repairs.

-VAT of only 7% on goods and services. a civilised taxman levies 20% and more.

-the uncivilised low salaries for gardeners, cooks, maids and other domestic staff. even if paying top salaries and providing extended perks a civilised domestic employee is 3-4 times the cost.

-the uncivilised low cost for health care. not only in government but also in private hospitals.

and last not least

-the uncivilised weather without hurricanes, tornadoes, blizzards, icy roads and foggy days near freezing point. a tsunami once in a blue moon does not add civilisation!

 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

These kind of comments are always intriguing to me what motivates abject denial of fact.

 

Many us now do the two location thing, winter in Thailand, Summer in (insert farangland of choice).

 

So we tend see both sides in real time every year.

 

So it's strange to me why there is always such denial. 

 

Then again to paraphrase George Smiley..."the fanatic is always harboring a secret doubt"

i pity you if believe fairy tales such as

Quote

Portugal, close to Coimbra. Nice freestanding house, 1500 m2 land with fruit trees, vines, some timber and private spring for a little less than 38,000 Euro's. Landtaxes less than 100 Euro's per year, cost of living 20 % lower than Thailand.

when was the last time you were in Portugal and saw its "side"?

Quote

So we tend see both sides in real time every year.

 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, Huckenfell said:

On 1/25/2019 at 10:36 AM, Bullie said:

As a European, Thailand has now effectively lost its attractiveness to me, partly because it has become quite expensive (granted, mainly due to the downturn the Euro has taken), but also it has become hotter every year. Add to that the corruption and the difficulties concerning visa, the cost of proper health insurance plus the fact that we are effectively second-rate visitors with little freedom of enterprise.

 

Me and my family are leaving Thailand behind us and are off to southern Europe next month, with affordable healthcare, less corruption, better food, pleasant temperatures, lower cost of living than Thailand and all the freedom one could wish for as a European citizen.

And after a while the 'shine' will wear off and you will be moving again. Good luck.

the shine will wear off when the Spanish, Italian or Greek taxman (i don't dare to mention the French one who's the worst of all) will stretch out his claws and demands every year a tax return and documentation of worldwide held income and assets.

[sirineou]

40 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

This idea that 1) Thailand is improving in some considerable way and 2) that as soon as it does, it will be as expensive as western countries is very silly and shows a fundamental lack of economics education. 

 

Show me where costs of doing business in Thailand match any advanced economy. The average annual income in Thailand is still under 10,000 USD equivalent. How is it they can pay so little in income and benefits and still charge western or higher prices? 

 

What you may misunderstand is that the prices are detached from the value, the market is not competitive because the Thai oligarchs make sure foreign companies cannot succeed in the market and all the additional wealth generated goes directly into the pockets of said Thai oligarchs. 

There is no such thing as a free lunch,

Improvements cost money, regulation introduces additional  costs. reduction in corruption creates friction. 

[GinBoy2]

1 minute ago, Naam said:

i pity you if believe fairy tales such as

when was the last time you were in Portugal and saw its "side"?

 

I'm not validating anything he says. 

 

But you take what he says on face value. 

 

I've gone through enough of these threads where regardless of the actual numbers, it's always supposedly a 'fiction'

[euthanax]

What are you guys talking about, the USD is still stronger than 2014,15',16',17', if it was great to live in those times then why is it not now. 

 

This is not the reason to leave, in 5 years it's going to get better and then come back to the current level or little worse, I wish you all success.

[Skeptic7]

Place has been on a serious down slide for a decade. Still home to me and still like it, but it's not the same place anymore. Not even close. Needs another 1997 to bring it back to reality! 

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

1 hour ago, jabis said:

Never seen so many gray haired people on a sunset strip - hopefully pattaya will never turn into gray fox ghetto like that ????

No chance. Farangs in Pattaya don't have hair.

i beg to differ!

 

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

A Thai education is completely worthless outside of Thailand and the average salary of Thai graduates across the board will never be enough

I doubt my children will ever live outside Thailand SEA.

Europe is finished IMHO.

[Naam]

10 minutes ago, euthanax said:

What are you guys talking about, the USD is still stronger than 2014,15',16',17', if it was great to live in those times then why is it not now. 

wrong assumption. here are the facts:

 

 

[Naam]

11 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Place has been on a serious down slide for a decade. Still home to me and still like it, but it's not the same place anymore. Not even close. Needs another 1997 to bring it back to reality! 

i'd prefer 1977

[Naam]

17 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

23 minutes ago, Naam said:

i pity you if believe fairy tales such as

when was the last time you were in Portugal and saw its "side"?

 

I'm not validating anything he says. 

 

But you take what he says on face value. 

 

I've gone through enough of these threads where regardless of the actual numbers, it's always supposedly a 'fiction'

i never take rubbish at face value.

[GinBoy2]

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I doubt my children will ever live outside Thailand SEA.

Europe is finished IMHO.

Without wanting to drive this into an education debate, but.

My son was born in Singapore and went to school though middle school until we moved back to Thailand.

I have nothing but good things to say about his elementary and middles schools in Singapore.

Then we get to the Thai High School. OMG what a frikkin nightmare.

 

He spoke Thai, so it wasn't a language issue, but it was almost comical.

 

He spoke and read fluent English obviously, but I would read 'corrections' to his homework and I didnt know whether to laugh or cry.

 

His freshman year in college in the US was tough, that Thai HS beat out of him any debate. He was a little lucky my eldest daughter was also living in Chicago at the same time when he went to college there, and as women often do, just beat him into shape

Edited January 27, 2019 by GinBoy2

[faraday]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I doubt my children will ever live outside Thailand SEA.

Europe is finished IMHO.

For me, you saying that makes me admit that the UK is really in a dreadful, dreadful mess. Feel quite sad about it.

 

[garyk]

Lived here for the most part for 11 years, I travel to other countries.

Thailand for me is not exciting anymore. It has been over saturated with farang expats, and tourists for years now.

Other up coming countries are more exciting. If you want the Thailand of years ago go to Colombia, Southern Mexico, even places in Cambidia, Vietnam are nice and reflect Thailand of years gone by.

It is cheap here, but not worth it for the main stream expat!

The 800K seasoned is kinda silly, and reflects the governments wishes to weed out expats.

Thailand is not going to get any better for expats, only worse in the years to come. 

 

Personally I have never really seen any advantages to retiring here what so ever. You cannot own land, there fore never have complete security in retirement what so ever. You have a retirement extension only? So a hassle every year! Again no security in retirement. IMO Thailand is a nice place to play while younger. But, no one in there right mind that does research and actually travels would choose Thailand as a long term retirement home. You would have to be daft.  haha

 

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by garyk

[euthanax]

16 minutes ago, Naam said:

wrong assumption. here are the facts:

 

 

Right 9 percent increase in the mid, we will hit 33 again so it's not that big deal. 

[HuskerDo]

2 minutes ago, garyk said:

Lived here for the most part for 11 years, I travel to other countries.

Thailand for me is not exciting anymore. It has been over saturated with farang expats, and tourists for years now.

Other up coming countries are more exciting. If you want the Thailand of years ago go to Colombia, Southern Mexico, even places in Cambidia, Vietnam are nice and reflect Thailand of years gone by.

It is cheap here, but not worth it for the main stream expat!

The 800K seasoned is kinda silly, and reflects the governments wishes to weed out expats.

Thailand is not going to get any better for expats, only worse in the years to come. 

 

Personally I have never really seen any advantages to retiring here what so ever. You cannot own land, there fore never have complete security in retirement what so ever. You have a retirement extension only? So a hassle every year! Again no security in retirement. IMO Thailand is a nice place to play while younger. But, no one in there right mind that does research would choose Thailand as a long term retirement home. You would have to be daft.  haha

 

 

"But, no one in there right mind that does research would choose Thailand as a long term retirement home. You would have to be daft."

 

And yet many do and many are extremely happy here and found a way to assimilate. Many have great Thai wives and families they are extremely happy with. The "right mind" you speak of is a case by case situation and you shouldn't lump everyone into the same bucket even tho you haven't found the right situation to be happy with. Another example of someone who hates living in Thailand and everything about it yet stays. Very odd. 

 

You don't need to own land to have complete security in retirement. That's absurd.

[SuperTed]

An intelligent analysis on what drives the value of THB would be most welcome. Is there a forum for that?

USD and Sterling are both in an odd stretch right now, but in general it's strange that global strength of the dollar, in particular against the RMB, has not resulted in a weaker THB, especially given stagnation in manufacturing and lack of central bank currency support.

wrong assumption. here are the facts:
 
 

[garyk]

Just now, HuskerDo said:

"But, no one in there right mind that does research would choose Thailand as a long term retirement home. You would have to be daft."

 

And yet many do and many are extremely happy here and found a way to assimilate. Many have great Thai wives and families they are extremely happy with. The "right mind" you speak of is a case by case situation and you shouldn't lump everyone into the same bucket even tho you haven't found the right situation to be happy with. Another example of someone who hates living in Thailand and everything about it yet stays. Very odd. 

 

You don't need to own land to have complete security in retirement. That's absurd.

I love it here, 11 years reflect that. Thai people are nice and if you keep your witts about you a nice place. But as a long term retirement and home for the masses. It misses the mark and other countries are taking up the slack.

Have good one.

[HuskerDo]

4 minutes ago, garyk said:

I love it here, 11 years reflect that. Thai people are nice and if you keep your witts about you a nice place. But as a long term retirement and home for the masses. It misses the mark and other countries are taking up the slack.

Have good one.

Yep, opinions vary.

[Sonhia]

Worse in my opinion.

 

Bordering countries are wising up and seeing the potential.

 

Not wanting to come across as being negative, but to be honest, what is the attraction?

 

Noise?

Dogs?

Pollution?

Racism? Greed? 

Extortion?

Lawlessness?

Poor security and rights for foreigners?

Thai v's Foreigner over pricing?

Untidy?

Filthy?

Poor health and safety?

Some of the, if not, most dangerous roads in the world?

Expensive?

Costly visa rules and regulations? Poor employment regulations plus rights for foreigners?

Impoliteness?

Attitude?

Poor and costly health care, especially for and toward foreigners?

Dictatorship and so on...

 

What happened to the land of smiles? The caring, polite Thai?

 

No nation / country is perfect, but to claim Thailand the land of smiles and paradise is beyond me.

 

Not all is bad, but could some of the above be considered true?

 

No wonder many expats are jumping or considering jumping ship.

 

If and when the tour groups dry up and the TRUE number of tourists visiting Thailand dwindles, even more so than it already has done, with far less expats residing in Thailand, the impact could be far greater on Thai nationals than it already is.

 

As Thai say, "up to you". I say "up to Thailand".

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, mommysboy said:

It's a heck of a lot better than Thailand- I can assure you of that.  It's the emergencies that see people off.

Well, yes. Otherwise it wouldn't be an emergency, would it?

I look forward to your next post of the bleeding obvious.