Never again: On the Thai fondness for swastikas

[ravip]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Should we really be concerned about one young girl in Asia ...

 

One in 20 Britons does not believe Holocaust took place, poll finds

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/27/one-in-20-britons-does-not-believe-holocaust-happened

 

That's the mighty difference...always, every-time and mind you, not only in TVF!

[ravip]

8 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Just wondering if the history of Polpot, Khamer Rouge and the estimated 2 million dead in Cambodia, teachers, doctors and other educated classes is taught or mentioned in Thai education.

...and about that war that went on in Vietnam? Iran, Iraq, Libya? Do they teach about all these wars? About the why, the how, the when?

Edited January 29, 2019 by ravip

[Briggsy]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Just wondering if the history of Polpot, Khamer Rouge and the estimated 2 million dead in Cambodia, teachers, doctors and other educated classes is taught or mentioned in Thai education.

Perhaps at university level. I read Thai school books as a hobby (bit sad, I know). You really never go very long on any topic in a Thai school-level history textbook before the content returns to the subject of the institution of the Thai monarchy throughout history. It is of great interest to those who developed the syllabus. Neighbouring South East Asian nations is definitely of very little interest.

 

On a related note, control of the Ministry of Education and specifically what is included in the national syllabus has been of great concern to administrations since compulsory education came in, decades ago.

 

I would be surprised if even 30% of Thais away from the Cambodian border provinces knew of the scale of the atrocities committed by the Khmer Rouge. Be aware, that the Khmer Rouge had a lot of support from Thailand as the enemy of my enemy, in this case, Vietnam, is my friend. So, Thai authorities have further reasons not to talk about that era and their involvement.

[Rimmer]

Some off topic and troll stuff has been removed, also replies

[DM07]

5 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

This seems to happen every 2 years or so. The Thais' lack of history knowledge is obscene.  Last year, while doing a WW1 history lesson and consequences **after** for many years, I showed a photo of holocaust victims looking over barbed wire; the year 9 students broke out in laughter.

 

I paused everything, I told them I will be back and walked out the classroom for 10 minutes to calm down. Then I taught them why they were in there. 

 

Surreal

2 years?

You give them way too much credit!

Just a few months ago...the case with the "Hitler- themed" hotel room....

[PhilippBKK]

[HalfLight]

27 minutes ago, ravip said:

That's the mighty difference...always, every-time and mind you, not only in TVF!

I wonder if 5% of the population is a significant enough proportion to affect anything in a matter which does not include emotive terms like 'Israel' and 'holocaust'. I think perhaps not.

 

 

 

[DM07]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And then there is this famous guy - at least his picture is famous.

How many people wear t-shirt with his face? And how many of those people know anything about him?

It seems for most people it's fashion - not more, not less.

 

 

 

And this is "whataboutism"- no more, no less!

And it is irrelevant!

By the way: I used to have a t-shirt like that!

A group of young Thais yelled "Yeah ...Bin Laden! Dee mak!" at me and gave me a thumbs up!

 

[HalfLight]

16 minutes ago, PhilippBKK said:

It completely defeats me why any numpty would wear a shirt like this. I'm amazed that there are still some people who don't understand what principles this symbol stands for.

 

It seems to me that buying and choosing to wear any apparel is the consequence of a series of (largely unconscious) impulses that relate to the buyers/wearers self-image and what they wish to project to other people. One can only guess what this guy was thinking. Nothing probably, except 'nice, spicy colours...'. Someone wanting to take his picture with a camera must have been most gratifying for the poor man.

Edited January 29, 2019 by HalfLight

[HalfLight]

12 minutes ago, DM07 said:

And this is "whataboutism"- no more, no less!

And it is irrelevant!

By the way: I used to have a t-shirt like that!

A group of young Thais yelled "Yeah ...Bin Laden! Dee mak!" at me and gave me a thumbs up!

 

Why would that be surprising? Surely it's about what one would expect from a bunch of young Thais - no? It seems to me the OP was right - it's all about fashion and standing out from the crowd so you get noticed. Brainpower tends not to do that so much.

 

I recall walking on a street in a town near where we live, and having a bunch or rowdy young thugs cheer me from a pickup they were in the back of - because I was wearing a black shirt (shortly after the death of the previous King).

 

I always wear black shirts and had not thought of that significance when I put it on. Force of habit. I guess we all project our values on to other people and assume that what motivates us also motivates them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by HalfLight

[Misterwhisper]

1 hour ago, Blackheart1916 said:

Exactly what I was going to write, with the addition, will we also push to get rid of the hammer and sickle shirts, flags, etc.? Estimated 20 million plus killed under the Stalin communist regime, surely that counts too? As for Thais/Thailand ignoring evil deeds across their borders, well show me a country who doesn't.

And let's not forget t-shirts and other "fashion" accessories and trinkets emblazoned with Mao or Che Guevara. The former had around 50 million - if not more - on his conscience (not that he had sleepless nights over it, though); and the latter was not a "revolutionary" but a ruthless guerrilla leader who had "enemies of the new era" mercilessly tortured, their families killed, and entire villages wiped off the map.

 

While it is of course true that the Nazis were a murderous bunch and thus the ignorant use of the Nazi swastika is deplorable and must be sternly criticized, the world at large seems to be quite lenient when it comes to liberally displaying the by no means less evil symbols of communism.  

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Few Thais gave much thought to the killing fields or fretted for the Rohingya.

When it comes to Myanmar, the only things that seem to prick the average Thai's social consciousness is when a migrant Burmese worker is caught committing a crime in Thailand. The indifference a few years ago when the Thai army towed boats full of Burmese refugees out to sea so they didn't become a Thai issue didn't get a lot of local air time. Same goes for Burmese bodies found in the recently disused trafficking camps discovered in southern Thai provinces.

 

2 hours ago, car720 said:

It has been my experience that this is how Thais handle the feeling of tragedy.  They smother their emotions by laughing.

I am not sure if I can completely disagree with the concept.  Tragedy is an emotional event and each person usually reacts to it in a different way.  I guess it is a bit like the way people view farting in church.

Very true. When a serious road accident happens and the media images are posted here, an overwhelming amount of long-time TV experts get upset when they see some of the Thai's smiling or laughing, even the rescue team workers pointing at the mangled bodies. Generally this is an Asian reaction when faced with something distasteful, traumatic or down right scary. An old friend of mine who fought with the British Army in Korea told me years ago how the hoards of Chinese, under-armed and not even properly dressed for battle in freezing weather were mostly always smiling when they charged into the face of superior allied firepower. US veterans undoubtedly saw similar in Vietnam.

 

Next time you see the motorbike with 3-up haring through a red light and the two pillion are smiling or even laughing, they're doing this to counteract the natural response of their anal sphincters... they are not at all happy about it.

[Enki]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

but why is it that Nazi symbolism in particular holds such allure for Thais and other Asians?

Hä, yeah ... education is a real problem, what a dumb news article by "The Nation".

 

I mean: the article writer obviously lacks education.

 

The Nazi swastika is not a Nazi symbol. Or more precisely, it was used by the Nazis, but it is not invented by them. Especially in Asia, notable India, it is a thousands of years old symbol of life, the sun, fertility etc. The "wheel of time". 

It is pretty normal for a Thai or other asian to use it on a flag or T-shirt.

 

[sanemax]

Just now, Enki said:

Hä, yeah ... education is a real problem, what a dumb news article by "The Nation".

 

I mean: the article writer obviously lacks education.

 

The Nazi swastika is not a Nazi symbol. Or more precisely, it was used by the Nazis, but it is not invented by them. Especially in Asia, notable India, it is a thousands of years old symbol of life, the sun, fertility etc. The "wheel of time". 

It is pretty normal for a Thai or other asian to use it on a flag or T-shirt.

 

The Nazi swastika is a Nazi symbol , the ancient Buddisht/Indian swastika is not a Nazi symbol , they are two different things , similar, but different 

[NanLaew]

1 minute ago, Enki said:

Hä, yeah ... education is a real problem, what a dumb news article by "The Nation".

 

I mean: the article writer obviously lacks education.

 

The Nazi swastika is not a Nazi symbol. Or more precisely, it was used by the Nazis, but it is not invented by them. Especially in Asia, notable India, it is a thousands of years old symbol of life, the sun, fertility etc. The "wheel of time". 

It is pretty normal for a Thai or other asian to use it on a flag or T-shirt.

 

Here you go...

 

"How the world loved the swastika - until Hitler stole it"

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29644591

[bkkgriz]

2 hours ago, Ahab said:

Because if you don't know history you are bound to repeat it? Knowing about 6 million people being systematically exterminated in Germany, Poland, and western Russia does not require "extensive knowledge". I know enough about the history of India, Asia, and Mongolia to know that 6 million men, women, and children where not systematically murdered in the same fashion there (with the possible exception of communist China).

50 million died under Mao's great leap forward. Almost 2 million under Pol Pot. I guess some (((groups))) just have better access to media. 

[yogi100]

2 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

I would like to visually see just who those 1 in 20 so called 

British citizens were, that they asked.

I think that would paint a very different picture. 

 

It would also be interesting to hear what their names were. You can bet most of them started with the letter 'M'.

[Enki]

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The Nazi swastika is a Nazi symbol , the ancient Buddisht/Indian swastika is not a Nazi symbol , they are two different things , similar, but different 

They look the same. So they are not different things. There are dozens of variations, 3 arms versus 4 arms, pointing to the left or to the right, or having a 45° angle pointing inside.

But thanx: next time I don't simplify to much ... 

[Just Weird]

3 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

she said. “I am saddened and feel seriously guilty. Please forgive me.” 

 

not sure how effectively this is being handled, the only thing she is guilty of is ignorance.

 

where were the adults in the room? parents. manager, agent, tv producer, editor, public relations people... did non of them consider the clothing inappropriate?

The girl is an adult!  She is 19.  

[Just Weird]

3 hours ago, Ahab said:

Because if you don't know history you are bound to repeat it? 

That is just nonsense, having knowledge about something does not mean that it will never be repeated.  The events being discussed here happened during World War II and that happened even though all those involved knew about WWI.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Just Weird

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, HLover said:

1 hour ago, Wallander4 said:

Thais don't even know who built Railway of Death in Kanchanaburi (bridge over river Kwai) but by all means continue your thai apologist nonsense

Who built it?

I thought that's a tourist attraction which brings lots of tourists and lots of money...

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, Enki said:

They look the same. So they are not different things. There are dozens of variations, 3 arms versus 4 arms, pointing to the left or to the right, or having a 45° angle pointing inside.

But thanx: next time I don't simplify to much ... 

Although they do look similar , they are different .

Yes, there are dozens of variations and they are all different................otherwise they wouldnt be variations , they would be the same .

   The Nazi swastika was designed by Hitler himself and his swastika has solely been used by Nazis

[Enki]

55 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

 

I recall walking on a street in a town near where we live, and having a bunch or rowdy young thugs cheer me from a pickup they were in the back of - because I was wearing a black shirt (shortly after the death of the previous King).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the road to the next town lives a guy who has 4 flags hanging from the tip of the roof: nazi gemany, thailand, USA, nazi germany. He is Thai, or at least looks like a Thai. Hm, no I think it is 5 flags and he made it symetric ... 

[HalfLight]

7 minutes ago, Enki said:

On the road to the next town lives a guy who has 4 flags hanging from the tip of the roof: nazi gemany, thailand, USA, nazi germany. He is Thai, or at least looks like a Thai. Hm, no I think it is 5 flags and he made it symetric ... 

First reaction is he's appealing to an imagined image and patriotism. Not his fault he's probably a dick, Well, not completely his fault.

Edited January 29, 2019 by HalfLight

[HalfLight]

4 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Should I go on? Perhaps you are at least smart enough to know what the word "Thai" actually means. And how funny it is that you basically live in the Asian equivalent of Switzerland.

With respect, that's just silly.

 

Sorry, my mistake, Ahab was not the guy who posted this.

Edited January 29, 2019 by HalfLight

[HalfLight]

"Should I go on? Perhaps you are at least smart enough to know what the word "Thai" actually means. And how funny it is that you basically live in the Asian equivalent of Switzerland. "

 

With respect, that's just silly.

 

 

[Ahab]

10 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

That is just nonsense, having knowledge about something does not mean that it will never be repeated.  The events being discussed here happened during World War II and that happened even though all those involved knew about WWI.

So because there was a war after another war ended there is nothing to be learned from the conflicts and how they came about. I do agree with you regarding people not learning from the past. The ineffective and mostly useless United Nations has yet to act to prevent genocide since world war II, and I have zero hope they will act in an effective way to prevent this into the foreseeable future (e.g. Cambodia, Serbia, Rwanda).

[Just Weird]

13 minutes ago, Ahab said:

So because there was a war after another war ended there is nothing to be learned from the conflicts and how they came about. 

I didn't say that.  You suggested that knowledge of events meant that they would not be repeated.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Just Weird

[tifino]

6 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

This seems to happen every 2 years or so. The Thais' lack of history knowledge is obscene.  Last year, while doing a WW1 history lesson and consequences **after** for many years, I showed a photo of holocaust victims looking over barbed wire; the year 9 students broke out in laughter.

 

I paused everything, I told them I will be back and walked out the classroom for 10 minutes to calm down. Then I taught them why they were in there. 

 

Surreal

in their ignorance; it would have seemed like they have had some sneak preview of a new xBox game...

... all the gory advertising images, to along with

 

 

the packaging:

 

 

[bkkgriz]

4 hours ago, HLover said:

The flag used by the Confederate south was clearly displayed and for sale last weekend.

Suppose the groups affected by that symbol do not have a strong enough media presence/control to warrant an editorial?

Right next to the Che t-shirts I'm sure. But hey, if you only murder women, children and gays and follow an ideology that has killed 100 million, you are cool.