Two Russian Women Killed At Jomthien Beach

[TimTang]

I am a bit curious how one of these girls, who were both facing forward sitting in beach chairs, was shot in the back.

Only some of the news reports make the claim of the shot to the back. And in each of them, there's no clear attribution as to who is making that claim. It could just be the reporter on the scene making a guess or the police or forensic technician on the scene making a guess. The photos do clearly show what appears to be a bullet wound on her back, and blood on her chest. However, it takes an autopsy to positively confirm which is the entry wound and which is the exit wound; it cannot reliably be done at the crime scene in all cases.

The reporting has been a little inconsistant as well. First they were found laying on the beach, then they were slumped over, finally the photo's show them laying back in the chairs.

[Tarragona]

The reporting has been a little inconsistant as well. First they were found laying on the beach, then they were slumped over, finally the photo's show them laying back in the chairs.

Well, they probably moved around a bit.

[dingue2rep]

2 All:

Just try to judge this case without prejudice to Russians. Average Russian is much more honest and intelligent than avarage farang in Pattaya.

No one is making sweeping generalizations that all Russians are bad, on the contrary, most Russians I've met are happy, jovial people and are very easy to get along with. It's just a known fact that the Russian mafia is operating in the area and there are many Russian prostitutes operating in the area as well.

The women may not have been prostitutes at all, but this angle can not be ignored when trying to determine who the assailant or assailants were.

Not all Italians are members of the Mob!

Mob or not, all Italians are good cooks. I used to be crazy about Italian food, until I discovered ahaan Thai (Thai Food). No offence to my mob connections in Vegas, Gino and Tony. Guys, I still adore your good ol' pasta like mamma used to make it! By the way, the best steaks I ever ate were in Firenza (Florence) Mamma mia! Oh by the way, congrats for the world cup soccer finals, even if you didn't deserve it Ciao...

[Tony Clifton]

Heavy coverage in the Hong Kong press. Not good at all.

This just adds to the reputation of Thailand being a lawless place of crime and corruption. Which it is really.

And it all starts with the police force at the front of it all. The country works their way.

[dingue2rep]

It seems to me that many members feel the need to blame someone so, instead of blaming the killer, they blame the victims, or they blame all "cowardly Thai men" or all Thai people or all Russians.

The only person to blame for this murder is the man who pulled the trigger.

And the person who sold him the gun and ammunition. Strict gun control reduces the number of deaths due to violent crime.

Guns dont kill people, people kill people. You can buy a knife in all forms, shapes and sizes, on every street corner of Thailand. Advantage is that you can use it over and over again with no real forensic marks. You can stab and slash and chop away all day long 'cos you don't need ammunition and it makes less noise than a firearm.

self control - not gun control

Edited February 25, 2007 by dingue2rep

[Tolley]

It seems to me that many members feel the need to blame someone so, instead of blaming the killer, they blame the victims, or they blame all "cowardly Thai men" or all Thai people or all Russians.

The only person to blame for this murder is the man who pulled the trigger.

And the person who sold him the gun and ammunition. Strict gun control reduces the number of deaths due to violent crime.

Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

No reason for average suburban people to have or own guns.

Ready access to firearms makes it more likely that these firearms will be used.

And people kill people with guns .....

[moskito]

I am a bit curious how one of these girls, who were both facing forward sitting in beach chairs, was shot in the back.

Look at the top left hand photo in the gallery at

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.p...NEWS=0000002484

The shooter would have used the wooden stairs to approach them from behind.

He shot the first woman in the back, then ran around and fired three more shots from the front.

Thanks for the link TimTang, it really looks a bit staged to me. The table is very clean, one have to find out if the ladys were smokers or not too, as I can see no prove of cigarettes somewhere. I learned that the most russian girls are strong smokers. Where is the bruise on the girls face from is another question too. If they were around in Jomtien Bars that night for sure somebody will remember them.

[Khun ?]

It seems to me that many members feel the need to blame someone so, instead of blaming the killer, they blame the victims, or they blame all "cowardly Thai men" or all Thai people or all Russians.

The only person to blame for this murder is the man who pulled the trigger.

And the person who sold him the gun and ammunition. Strict gun control reduces the number of deaths due to violent crime.

Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

Yeah and thousands of Russians don't work as prostitutes around the world.

[Phil Conners]

Please go through the 20 pages of posts, and tell me humans are smart. 80% claiming how they suspect them to be prostitutes.

So then it's fine to kill?

You're the one who don't get the link. It's not a quiestion of whether it's ok, but if they're prostitutes there usually is a pimp in the scene. I think it is not hard to imagine they might have wanted to "renegotiate" their "working arrangement" and the pimp make sure this thing wasn't spreading.

[dingue2rep]

It seems to me that many members feel the need to blame someone so, instead of blaming the killer, they blame the victims, or they blame all "cowardly Thai men" or all Thai people or all Russians.

The only person to blame for this murder is the man who pulled the trigger.

And the person who sold him the gun and ammunition. Strict gun control reduces the number of deaths due to violent crime.

Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

No reason for average suburban people to have or own guns.

Ready access to firearms makes it more likely that these firearms will be used.

And people kill people with guns .....

Great, we have narrowed down the list of suspects to an average person from a suburban environment. Do people in rural areas need guns?

Lets ban cars too... people kill people with cars, generaly while driving drunk, so ban alcohol as well. Limit the sale of alcohol to people who don't own cars or motorcycles. What about knives?

[cmsally]

They bear a very striking resemblance to 2 Russian girls that were sitting in front of me (I was standing ) on the skytrain last Sunday (18 Feb).

The only reason I remember was that I was trying to pick up on the language, long time since I have heard Russian. More used to hearing Polish.

[Couthy]

It really surprises me that nobody mentioned 9/11 or area 51 so far....

I know that most of you guys worked sorry work for the CIA, MI 5 6 and 7, Mossad and so far but why not order another Chang beer at your local pub and let the professionals do their work?

Cheers

Marc

Brill, Marc.

Nice one.

Anyway, I have some 100% guaranteed conspiracy theories about area 51.

A friend of friend who met a guy in a bar who's sister worked in Abaline as a short order cook told the story.

But for personal safety I cannot let the details become public.........................

[dingue2rep]

It really surprises me that nobody mentioned 9/11 or area 51 so far....

I know that most of you guys worked sorry work for the CIA, MI 5 6 and 7, Mossad and so far but why not order another Chang beer at your local pub and let the professionals do their work?

Cheers

Marc

It must be hard switching from German beer to Thai, but I suppose after a couple of years, Chang would go down well. Which professionals are you refering to? I did an "operational exercise" with the GSG 9, in 1997, now that was professional! Of course you should know the GSG 9...

GSG 9 der Bundespolizei

[HenryB]

Not all Italians are members of the Mob!

Nobody has mentioned that as many as 50% of the Russian Mafia are Jewish to include at least 3 of the major crime bosses.

Thanks for Info. Keep up the info Is Mafia a Jewish word?

[qualtrough]

I've edited and added this line to make my point a bit clearer. I've seen people really dead from violence..and it doesn't look like that. Shooting someone in the guts does not mean an instant neat death-throw-your-head-back-and-let the -smoke-fall from your-hand in your last breath kind of tv nonesense. It's gross and very messy and a slow death. That's way way to neat for a double killing. Both sitting in the chair head on each other's shoulder what amateur crap is that? What's wrose is the police and the local media eat it all up - no questions as usual.

Years ago in grad school I had a summer internship in a regional documents depository. Nothing to do all day so I spent my time reading through country commissioner reports, road committee minutes, and sometimes coroner's reports. These often had photos attached. Saw lots of people with gunshot wounds, self-inflicted and otherwise. The photos of the two women here did not strike me as unusual at all. Looks like the one on the left was hit in the heart, very little bleeding evident, collapsed on her friend. The other one had a series of shots in her abdomen, lots of blood indicating heart still working for a bit, head back and not to pleasant a look on her face. I too am not a coroner or a policemen, but nothing I saw suggested this was staged.

Edited February 25, 2007 by qualtrough

[libya 115]

***** UPDATE *****

SOURCE: Pattaya Daily News: February 25th 2007

This resulted in instant action, with the deployment of a huge task force of Thai police officers being assigned to this case. Approximately 50 officers were split into 12 working groups, with each being assigned the duty of investigating a particular aspect of this case. This included searching for witnesses, gathering information from tourist locations (such as Walking Street), working with the Russian Embassy, examining the crime scene, hotel of occupancy, and many other aspects associated with the brutal slaying of these young Russian tourists.

Police have been most thorough in their investigations, and as well as speaking to many witnesses, they have video footage of the young ladies purchasing items from a local shop in the early hours of the morning in question. To date, some interesting facts have emerged, and it is known that these two young ladies arrived as part of a large Russian tourist group of around 60 persons, who booked into the Dragon Beach Hotel, on Jomtien Beach Road. Six of the group were young ladies, with 4 of these girls traveling on to Kanchanaburi, and it is rumored that the two murdered girls flew on free air tickets, which were issued from Thailand. The staff at the Golden Beach Hotel remembered that they had returned to their hotel room to change into their beachwear before proceeding to the nearby beach-front.

At 3.00 am the next morning, (less than 24 hours later), the police officers re-convened at a very big meeting in the Anunthaya Hotel, which is directly opposite the murder scene. Several aspects of this case are coming forth as robbery does not appear to be the motive. As the ladies were wearing heavy make-up, the question has arisen as to whether they were working in the prostitution industry, whilst they were in Pattaya. If this was the case, is possible that these murders were part of a gangland war, that could have erupted between rival groups, over control within this industry.

This case is very worrying for tourist operators in Pattaya, as several Russian women have been attacked in recent months, in what appears to have been violent crimes related to robberies. Both our Mayor, Khun Niran Wattanasartsathorn and Governor Pracha Taerat have over many months, voiced their concerns at Pattaya’s crime rates, and have vowed to continue their efforts to see a big improvement in the situation.

[ThailandTony]

Having trawled all 24 pages to make sure I was not repeating posts I am staggered that no-one has suggested....dare I suggest!?.....9mm + combat boots + numerous incidents of firing said 9mm wildly when drunk + very handy confession from poor deckchair man = men in brown? I almost daren't suggest it but then I was reminded of those 2 poor souls in Kanchanaburi and the media circus and legal farce that followed.

For those of you that know what I'm talking about I am not suggesting anything and for those of you who don't, I am not suggesting anything, after all I live full time in Thailand and you are always succeptible to the "long arm of the law"!

Comments (without insults please)?

[LoveDaBlues]

It amazes me how some long-time farangs living in Thailand still don't understand that "face" is very important to many Thais. I think these girls caused the chair vendor to lose face EARLIER in the evening. He obtained a gun, perhaps his own or borrowed; and came back and shot them when very few other people were around.

Remember the traffic cop in Chiang Mai a couple of years ago? In the early morning hours (around 8am if memory is correct) a Thai driver yelled at him causing him to lose face. He promptly shot the driver, driver's wife, young teenager (girl) riding with them (she was on her knees begging not to be shot), and then he shot himself. Four dead in a few seconds over a loss of "face". Yet many posters on this forum poo-poo face as if it doesn't exist.

A friend of mine was in Pattaya with his buddy. A young Thai male came up to my friend and tried to hand him one on those "soapy cards". My friend politely said, "mai ow kop". His STUPID friend told the Thai guy to "F***Off". A small squirmish broke out but was soon broken up. The two farangs got on their rented motorbike and left. About 3 hours later they were back at the same location. As they got off the motorbike the STUPID farang was hit between the eyes by a thick-walled piece of the blue PVC pipe. Split his forehead badly and he had to go to the hospital. It was the same Thai he had earlier told to "F***Off". Face is very real here for many Thai....the STUPID farang is lucky he wasn't knifed or even shot. Some Thai will wait months to extract revenge for someone causing them to lose face.

Russian mafia?

[dwwin]

I am a bit curious how one of these girls, who were both facing forward sitting in beach chairs, was shot in the back.

My condolences to their families.

I really do hope Khunying Pornthip gets her hands on these girls instead of the police trying it them self.

Assumption 1: The girls were killed there.

After comparing all the pics available the girl with the bullet hole in the back must have been sitting upright. Killer doesn't know where left and right or the head is, so shots her into the right shoulder blade from the hip. The exit wound is almost horizontal near or at the breastbone. Very small exit hole too would mean powerful gun (Glock?). No blood on glass or bottle.

He then walks around and shots the other girl into the abdomen.

Sorry, but very strange indeed. A Mafia or contract killer would have shot the first into the back of the head and the second one at least into the left part of the chest. That is if he'd taken the time to walk around and not just shot the other into the head too from where he was standing.

But I'm afraid they will serve us the disgruntled chair keeper who can't afford a .22.

Assumption 2: They weren't killed there and the guard of the hotel is involved.

[twix38]

"Either they were posed by the incompetent police or they were shot in the back while sitting in the chairs which means there should be bullet holes in the chairs. It shouldn't be hard to figure out exactly where they were. However, knowing how the Thai police operate I bet the tabloids came and they posed the bodies first thing and then sat down to have some som tam and sangsom on the crime scene. "

I had a look at the murder site whilst riding by today. Loosly cordened off with tape and unguarded. Still a beer bottle and glass left there, but put down on the floor. There were NO holes on the deck chairs that I could see (possible I missed it, but I don't think so). I doubt a shot came from behind and I doubt anything can be used from the crime scene in future as anyone could tamper with it easily.

[ThailandTony]

It amazes me how some long-time farangs living in Thailand still don't understand that "face" is very important to many Thais. I think these girls caused the chair vendor to lose face EARLIER in the evening. He obtained a gun, perhaps his own or borrowed; and came back and shot them when very few other people were around.

Remember the traffic cop in Chiang Mai a couple of years ago? In the early morning hours (around 8am if memory is correct) a Thai driver yelled at him causing him to lose face. He promptly shot the driver, driver's wife, young teenager (girl) riding with them (she was on her knees begging not to be shot), and then he shot himself. Four dead in a few seconds over a loss of "face". Yet many posters on this forum poo-poo face as if it doesn't exist.

A friend of mine was in Pattaya with his buddy. A young Thai male came up to my friend and tried to hand him one on those "soapy cards". My friend politely said, "mai ow kop". His STUPID friend told the Thai guy to "F***Off". A small squirmish broke out but was soon broken up. The two farangs got on their rented motorbike and left. About 3 hours later they were back at the same location. As they got off the motorbike the STUPID farang was hit between the eyes by a thick-walled piece of the blue PVC pipe. Split his forehead badly and he had to go to the hospital. It was the same Thai he had earlier told to "F***Off". Face is very real here for many Thai....the STUPID farang is lucky he wasn't knifed or even shot. Some Thai will wait months to extract revenge for someone causing them to lose face.

Russian mafia?

Very well put and I thnk you have hit the nail on the head with the face (ouch), but I still don't think it was the deckchair guy......I think if a Thai guy loses face to a russian girl he bitch-slaps her there and then with a table or whatever else is handy.....In this case I think the 9mm was handy to the perp and thats why they paid with their lives (God rest their souls) instead of a trip to the casualty department.....as there is no smoking gun attached to a Thai man with renewed face at the moment, I think its gonna drag on until someone places these ladies with a face that carry's a 9mm, then its ballistics after that.

[kmart]

That crime scene looks all wrong to me. The girls look peaceful and are sitting still in place (posed?) in those chairs; there is no sign of struggle or resistance / defensive wounds. I agree with the poster who suggested earlier that they had been killed somewhere else and brought to this location, very early in the morning.

They were maybe mia noi's or molls of someone with a score to settle?

[Briggsy]

Having trawled all 24 pages to make sure I was not repeating posts I am staggered that no-one has suggested....dare I suggest!?.....9mm + combat boots + numerous incidents of firing said 9mm wildly when drunk + very handy confession from poor deckchair man = men in brown? I almost daren't suggest it but then I was reminded of those 2 poor souls in Kanchanaburi and the media circus and legal farce that followed.

For those of you that know what I'm talking about I am not suggesting anything and for those of you who don't, I am not suggesting anything, after all I live full time in Thailand and you are always succeptible to the "long arm of the law"!

Comments (without insults please)?

I did suggest it much earlier in the thread. Their involvement would not surprise me in the slightest.

[Prakanong]

I see journo's at Pattaya Daily News are Pulitzer standard

"As the ladies were wearing heavy make-up, the question has arisen as to whether they were working in the prostitution industry,"

Have they ever seen any Russian women NOT wearing loads of make up?

[ThailandTony]

That crime scene looks all wrong to me. The girls look peaceful and are sitting still in place (posed?) in those chairs; there is no sign of struggle or resistance / defensive wounds. I agree with the poster who suggested earlier that they had been killed somewhere else and brought to this location, very early in the morning.

They were maybe mia noi's or molls of someone with a score to settle?

This bucket holds no water......unless the security guard made it all up, and also the 7/11 clerk who served them on their way to the beach. The blood would have been all over the lady in whites outfit, arms, legs etc.....this is a theory too far for me!

[Amdesign]

I do not belive that they were killed somewhere alse. There is too much risk to bring them to the public beach, easier to take bodies to some remote location. Also as I understand this beach is quite close to police boot.

[kash]

Just saw the pictures in the newspaper, two good looking girls - too good looking to be streetwalkers at 5am...

[Meg_2003]

Just been on Channel 3 thai news that they are suspecting the Killer is a foreigner due to his height. They also showed the Video they have of the man running away but couldnt see much due to the shadows of the tree's.

[JimmyTheMook]

off-topic comment deleted --

Edited February 25, 2007 by sbk
lets keep it on topic please

[Heng]

Just been on Channel 3 thai news that they are suspecting the Killer is a foreigner due to his height.

If you were listening to the English version provided by Mimi and Charlie (the two main inter Thais they got doing the live interpreting at channel 3) IMO they didn't get that part quite right. The Thai version was "thought to be a foreigner because of the way the individual moved." Not because of the individual's height, although that was mentioned as well earlier.