Two Russian Women Killed At Jomthien Beach

[Heng]

If anything we can all agree that Thais love to put up tents and I cannot believe they have not caught onto this yet. Im trying to avoid humor here but it is a little ironic to say the least.

I can confirm that many of my friends and relatives do like tents and camping in general. Ironic indeed.

[Briggsy]

Today's Bangkok Post states the two victims were tourists and not involved in any illegal activity.

[MioBikerBoyz]

IT was a contract killing aka hired guns or hitman. Something maybe relating to the Russian mafia or just that the locals don't like the Russians in Pattaya but everywhere else like Bkk and Phuket there are no such dilemmas.

[Briggsy]

IT was a contract killing aka hired guns or hitman. Something maybe relating to the Russian mafia or just that the locals don't like the Russians in Pattaya but everywhere else like Bkk and Phuket there are no such dilemmas.

I think there are plenty of contract killings everywhere in Thailand, particularly in Bangkok and Phuket.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Briggsy

[Prakanong]

IT was a contract killing aka hired guns or hitman. Something maybe relating to the Russian mafia or just that the locals don't like the Russians in Pattaya but everywhere else like Bkk and Phuket there are no such dilemmas.

How can you definitavely (sp) assert it WAS a contract killing???

Do you know more than the police?

Do you have inside information?

It may well have been but you are stating 100% it was based on what?

Your intutiion, inside knowledge?

[peter991]

The news is now the number 1 item on eTravel Blackboard, Australia's number 1 Travel Industry Newsletter, which is emailled daily to Australian Travel Agents.

The essense of the story is:

1. Officials have called the murder of the two Russian women 'strange.'

2. The women were found with a total of 10 gunshot wounds.

3. Security camera have caught the images of a 'tall man of indistinct nationality' who parked his motorcycle, ran up to the women and shot them before fleeing.

4. From the gunman's dress - jeans and boots - we suspect he is a member of a Pattaya teenage gang, the Police Commander said.

5. He said the accusations that the two women were involved in illegal activities were probably false.

Peter

[thommo46]

The latest.

Reward offered for killer of Russian tourists

By Jerdsak Saengthongcharoen

Chon Buri - Police have offered a reward of 100,000 baht ($3,000) for the capture of the gunman who killed two Russian women tourists on Jomtien beach in Pattaya on Saturday.

Assawin Kwanmuang, chief of the Provincial Police Bureau 2, said the tourists, Livbov Svirkova, 25, and Tatiana Tsimfer, 30, were on a package tour and arrived in Pattaya on Feb 16. It was their first trip to the resort town.

They checked in at a hotel near the spot on the beach where they were found dead in their deckchairs. Each had been shot several times.

Pol Lt-Gen Assawin said records showed the two women were self-employed overseas and had nothing to do with any illegal businesses in Pattaya. They spent their entire time as tourists and there was no evidence they were involved in any business dealings here.

The commissioner said police investigators were looking to find out if they had become involved in a conflict with anyone in Pattaya.

Security cameras recorded what appeared to be an Asian man shooting the women from a distance. The killer did not touch the women's belongings.

The pictures needed to be examined more closely as the image of the man was taken from afar and was quite fuzzy, Pol Lt-Gen Assawin said. A reward of 100,000 baht was being offered for information leading to the capture of the killer.

Tens of thousands of Russian holidaymakers visit Pattaya every year.

[pop3]

In the present second wave of migration to the Far East, it is not only Vietnam which has received a massive influx of Russians. The number of Russian visitors to Thailand has increased from only a few hundred in the late 1980s to 24,000 in 1993, 31,000 the following year and nearly 50,000 in 1995. Entire Russian quarters have sprung up in the beach resort of Pattaya east of Bangkok. Officially, they are "tourists".

Many Russian girls work as entertainers in Bangkok's numerous night clubs, or can be hired as "escorts".

The police in Bangkok estimate that there are now at least 5,000 Russian prostitutes in Thailand, and the number is likely to increase the wealthier the country becomes. According to a Bangkok-based diplomat: "There's no shortage of local prostitutes in Bangkok. But rich Thai, Chinese, Japanese and Korean businessmen prefer white girls. It gives them prestige." The prices they charge - US$ 200-400 as opposed to US$ 20-30 for a Thai girl - contribute to their special value in terms of social status.

The girls are believed to have come to Asia through networks operated by the Russian mafia.

"Shanghai, Bangkok and Hong Kong are not London, Paris or New York. In the West, the Russians feel at home, they're familiar with local conditions and know how to operate. In Asia, it's an entirely different ball game," says a Western law enforcement official in Bangkok who is observing the arrival of the Russians in the Far East.

http://www.asiapacificms.com/articles/russian_mafia/

Here their talking about 1995. there are many more Ruskys here now. and a lot more established.

[garp]

I haven't read the whole of this thread.

i really don't need to in order to know the kind of uninformed, conspiratorial drivel it contains.

here we are sitting in a country where life comes cheap.

people are shot for absolutely nothing.

Here we are in a country that ranks third in the world for death by firearm and what do we do.... blame the mob.

This place is precious.

[LoveDaBlues]

Some people don't beleive me when I say crime is out of control in Pattaya and Jomtien. I have been in Thailand a long time moved to Jomtien to get away from the crime in Pattaya and now Jomtien is almost as bad. I hope the International press pick up on this so people will know of the dangers that face them by coming here for a holiday. Loosing face is no longer an excuse for Thais or anyone else. I only have 35 days left in Thailand thank God. I will have to stay covert in my condo.

P.S Anyone looking for a condo to rent in Jomtien please PM. me.

Cheers Tony

I have been in Jomtien area since 1999. Yes it is definitely getting violent and ugly. I have moved away now and had need to come into Pattaya in 2nd Road the other night and 2 bar girls and a mamasan dragged me out of my car as I parked it in front of their beer bar. I was actually going across the road. The threw me around a bit and it seemed like there was 6-7 of them within seconds. Not surprisingly the 1,500 baht in my shirt pocket went missing and THEY called the police accusing me as having damaged one of the girl's motorcycles as I parked my car!

No prizes for guessing what happened next eh?? Yep the next day I was compelled to pay for damage on the opposite side of the motorcycle that it should have been if indeed it was parked where they claimed. Oh yeah, that and no corresponding scratch on my car.

Yeah right... this is out of control and I will always always hate Pattaya, and anything to do with it. Sadly Jomtien is infected also now. I hope the Russians report this widely. I hope they stop coming to Pattaya or Jomtien until the police can start stopping these problems rather than being an integral part of it...

Pattaya is the bumho_le of Thailand. Jomtien is the armpits of Thailand. Pathetic places. Tragic about the girls.

The sad truth is this: until the tourists stop coming to these shiteholes.........nothing will change.

20+ golf courses is one reason to visit. Plenty of others I can think off from the top of my head. I never spent an uninteresting or bad day in or around Pattaya.

So, might I suggest that you take your disaffected attitude and self righteousness somewhere else. If you want to know about "shiteholes" I will gladly direct you to some. Pattaya, has it's faults, some of which have and are being addressed. There are IMHO plenty of alternatives in Thailand, some better, some worse, for vacations and for residence - this is a personal, relative judgement. Either way, I still visit Pattaya every time I am in LOS.

Your bombastic value judgements serve no useful purpose. Your fundamental Christian viewpoint also shows and is also irrelevant in this thread - if anywhere.

Now, as for the Russian presence - another issue. Having spent a year in Moscow, and plenty of time in Pattaya, I allow myself to make some observatios.

• Fact: There are plenty of Russians who have the financial capital, and opportunity to take vacations to tropical places.
  
• Fact: Just like the Chinese, English, Irish, German, Japanese ... the Russians would like a Russian restaurant or two in the vicinity, as well as some Russian speaking locals. Not all Russians speak English! Just one more ethnic food to the colourful mix in Pattaya
  
• Fact: Rssian tour operators and other businessmen move in to fill the need.
  
• Fact: The increase in Russian tourists increases the number of resident Russians to meet the language and cultural needs.
  
• Supposition: Organised crime sees a growing market and moves in, build lavish, expensively fitted restaurants etc. as laundries. Legitimate business is identifiable from this style of establishment for the trained eye.
  
• Prediction: The local"crime syndicates" see this as a threat and "turf wars" result.
  

Now, this scenario has played out countless times all over the world. It is playing out in Pattaya now. The only issue is who will win - which group will turn out to be the most brutal, and how many people will die in the crossfire.

In Europe, the eastern europeans are by far the most brutal, and appear to win everywhere, except perhaps Italy.

In Asia, I am not certain that the local forces are without the ability to defend themselves, and they have cultural position and "the law" on their side.

I have left out the issue of Russian prostitutes, since I do not understand their market in Thailand. There would historically appear to be a clear link to organised crime and prostitution, so it is probably in the mix. Protection rackets etc. The two deaths that started this thread may be related.

No matter what, this tragic event may have some repercussions for Pattaya and Thailand's tourist industry - though the list of dead tourists keeps growing, and the number of tourists keeps increasing - so I could be wrong there.

If these two girls were indeed tourists, shot by a chair operator (which I think reasonably unlikely, but clearly with a probability greater than zero) then I will be personally surprised.

Dr. Dweeb.

Don't quit yer day job Dr. Dweeb......you have failed as a detective........I'm agnostic.

As far as Pattay being a shiit_hole.....compared with the rest of Thailand.......it clearly is for anyone with an open mind. Of course there are many, many worse places in the world. But this is a Thailand forum and the reference point is Thailand.....not the world.

Many murders take place in Pattaya/Jomtien area......the crown jewels of this lovely country.

[Prakanong]

"Pol Lt-Gen Assawin said records showed the two women were self-employed overseas and had nothing to do with any illegal businesses in Pattaya. They spent their entire time as tourists and there was no evidence they were involved in any business dealings here. "

This can not be so - so many intelleigent rational people on Thavisa just could NOT be wrong - or could they?

And if they are will they post any retractions or aplogies - if the were men they would.

[pattaya_girl]

i have just come online to see if they caught the person who killed these two innocent beautiful girls - it seem not unfortuately. maybe they should put there energy into finding this murderer instead of putting there energy into traffic stop checks and drivers wearing no hats - and stopping people for nothing. come on pattaya police - get to the bottom of this crime - get your finger out and find them.

[LoveDaBlues]

Some people don't beleive me when I say crime is out of control in Pattaya and Jomtien. I have been in Thailand a long time moved to Jomtien to get away from the crime in Pattaya and now Jomtien is almost as bad. I hope the International press pick up on this so people will know of the dangers that face them by coming here for a holiday. Loosing face is no longer an excuse for Thais or anyone else. I only have 35 days left in Thailand thank God. I will have to stay covert in my condo.

P.S Anyone looking for a condo to rent in Jomtien please PM. me.

Cheers Tony

I have been in Jomtien area since 1999. Yes it is definitely getting violent and ugly. I have moved away now and had need to come into Pattaya in 2nd Road the other night and 2 bar girls and a mamasan dragged me out of my car as I parked it in front of their beer bar. I was actually going across the road. The threw me around a bit and it seemed like there was 6-7 of them within seconds. Not surprisingly the 1,500 baht in my shirt pocket went missing and THEY called the police accusing me as having damaged one of the girl's motorcycles as I parked my car!

No prizes for guessing what happened next eh?? Yep the next day I was compelled to pay for damage on the opposite side of the motorcycle that it should have been if indeed it was parked where they claimed. Oh yeah, that and no corresponding scratch on my car.

Yeah right... this is out of control and I will always always hate Pattaya, and anything to do with it. Sadly Jomtien is infected also now. I hope the Russians report this widely. I hope they stop coming to Pattaya or Jomtien until the police can start stopping these problems rather than being an integral part of it...

Pattaya is the bumho_le of Thailand. Jomtien is the armpits of Thailand. Pathetic places. Tragic about the girls.

The sad truth is this: until the tourists stop coming to these shiteholes.........nothing will change.

20+ golf courses is one reason to visit. Plenty of others I can think off from the top of my head. I never spent an uninteresting or bad day in or around Pattaya.

So, might I suggest that you take your disaffected attitude and self righteousness somewhere else. If you want to know about "shiteholes" I will gladly direct you to some. Pattaya, has it's faults, some of which have and are being addressed. There are IMHO plenty of alternatives in Thailand, some better, some worse, for vacations and for residence - this is a personal, relative judgement. Either way, I still visit Pattaya every time I am in LOS.

Your bombastic value judgements serve no useful purpose. Your fundamental Christian viewpoint also shows and is also irrelevant in this thread - if anywhere.

Now, as for the Russian presence - another issue. Having spent a year in Moscow, and plenty of time in Pattaya, I allow myself to make some observatios.

• Fact: There are plenty of Russians who have the financial capital, and opportunity to take vacations to tropical places.
  
• Fact: Just like the Chinese, English, Irish, German, Japanese ... the Russians would like a Russian restaurant or two in the vicinity, as well as some Russian speaking locals. Not all Russians speak English! Just one more ethnic food to the colourful mix in Pattaya
  
• Fact: Rssian tour operators and other businessmen move in to fill the need.
  
• Fact: The increase in Russian tourists increases the number of resident Russians to meet the language and cultural needs.
  
• Supposition: Organised crime sees a growing market and moves in, build lavish, expensively fitted restaurants etc. as laundries. Legitimate business is identifiable from this style of establishment for the trained eye.
  
• Prediction: The local"crime syndicates" see this as a threat and "turf wars" result.
  

Now, this scenario has played out countless times all over the world. It is playing out in Pattaya now. The only issue is who will win - which group will turn out to be the most brutal, and how many people will die in the crossfire.

In Europe, the eastern europeans are by far the most brutal, and appear to win everywhere, except perhaps Italy.

In Asia, I am not certain that the local forces are without the ability to defend themselves, and they have cultural position and "the law" on their side.

I have left out the issue of Russian prostitutes, since I do not understand their market in Thailand. There would historically appear to be a clear link to organised crime and prostitution, so it is probably in the mix. Protection rackets etc. The two deaths that started this thread may be related.

No matter what, this tragic event may have some repercussions for Pattaya and Thailand's tourist industry - though the list of dead tourists keeps growing, and the number of tourists keeps increasing - so I could be wrong there.

If these two girls were indeed tourists, shot by a chair operator (which I think reasonably unlikely, but clearly with a probability greater than zero) then I will be personally surprised.

Dr. Dweeb.

WOW!

Just because one poster makes a reference "Thank God" A very common phrase in the English language . Don't see how that equates to fundamental Christian Values.

Understandable given the near hundred year history of state sponsored Atheism in Russia.

LL

It was his platitude about "tragic girls" which is a standard phrase used by the christian moralists to describe all and every unchaste girl not in wedlock that invoked my ire. I have a problem with religious fundamentalism being applied in cultures built on different precepts.

Perhaps I was a little hasty, but I will wager that the "tragic" part in the posters mind is that there are "prostitutes", which offends his christian based sensibilities and teachings.

I hereby retract my interpretation of the poster's comment on this specific point. I have not, however altered my judgement.

cheers

Dweeb

I just read this post and can see now Dr. Dweeb why you're so confused. Let me help you out. I didn't say "tragic girls" in my post; you did. I said, "Tragic about the girls." I think we can all agree what happened to these girls is a tragic event. Also, I didn't use the phrase, "thank God"; that was someone else if you'll bother to check who posts what.

BTW, I have enjoyed very much the times I have spent with BG's .......I have nothing against them. At this point because you seem so confused I'm not really sure who you are venting at; it looks like me so I'm just clarifying my thoughts so you can stop walking around in such a confused state about things. LDB.

[frodo]

"Pol Lt-Gen Assawin said records showed the two women were self-employed overseas and had nothing to do with any illegal businesses in Pattaya. They spent their entire time as tourists and there was no evidence they were involved in any business dealings here. "

This can not be so - so many intelleigent rational people on Thavisa just could NOT be wrong - or could they?

And if they are will they post any retractions or aplogies - if the were men they would.

You beat me to it. The ladies had been condemned, unfairly accused of different things, yet, how many people will actually retract their words and apologize? Not too many.

[meemiathai]

It would make me happy to be wrong, but Mafia killings aren't always perpetrated against prostitutes, it could be the Russian pimps girlfriends or even family.

And btw, Russian prostitutes that come to work in Thailand don't admit to being hookers, they come in under the guise of a tourist.

I thought you would know that

I know of one where a prostitute was killed.This was back in Russia though.She was brutally slain and a video of the killing was sent to her work mates in Macau....don't try and run away from a contract etc..

This is very sad! And I believe these things do happen. Feel sorry for these people who cannot live how they want to.

[bobbin]

How about this for a novel approach?

The Thai police have offered a Baht 100,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the individual(s) involved in this tragic case.

Many posters have questioned the capabilities of the Thai police. Many posters have expressed dismay at the crime level in Pattaya. Many posters have suggested farangs are at increased risk of bodily harm in Pattaya.

There are at least 2 newspapers here in Pattaya that cater to and make their income from Farang. Could not One of them arrange a bank account to allow us to contribute money to this reward effort? Baht 100,000 is a fine start to this by the Thai police but not a very large amount of money in a western context. By contributing to a very public effort to help the police solve this horrible case we can help others and help ourselves.

We who live here are very aware of our precarious position in Thailand given our lack of a power base equivalent to a local Thai who has grown up here and has many social contacts to help him/her in event of conflict. But money is power. And directed money is directed power.

Let us make a start towards moving away from being powerless victims.

And in the event that this case is unsolved, a donation to the families of these poor girls to help defray the expense of repatriating their bodies would be a good work by the farang community of Pattaya.

[Khun ?]

why should anyone apoligize for anything. If you do not want to read theory and speculation stick to newspapers.

This is a message board to discuss issues pro and con.

How old is their passports and did they have several overseas stamps in them.

Looks a bit fishey someone in Thailand had the money to pay for their tickets but not enough to

make sure they had other than cheap rot gut thai wiskey to drink.

They were good enough to pay hundreds for plane tickets but not good enough for other than cheaper hotel and cheap booze.

Still a good chance just another hot headed thai incident, doesn't this make 5 Russian girls to be shot

in the last few months in Jomtien area. Pattaya living up to it's reputation either way, sin city.

[pattaya_girl]

stamps in passport or not, drinking cheap whiskey or not, hookers or not, THEY DONT DESERVE TO DIE.....

[Phil Conners]

How about this for a novel approach?

The Thai police have offered a Baht 100,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the individual(s) involved in this tragic case.

Many posters have questioned the capabilities of the Thai police. Many posters have expressed dismay at the crime level in Pattaya. Many posters have suggested farangs are at increased risk of bodily harm in Pattaya.

There are at least 2 newspapers here in Pattaya that cater to and make their income from Farang. Could not One of them arrange a bank account to allow us to contribute money to this reward effort? Baht 100,000 is a fine start to this by the Thai police but not a very large amount of money in a western context. By contributing to a very public effort to help the police solve this horrible case we can help others and help ourselves.

We who live here are very aware of our precarious position in Thailand given our lack of a power base equivalent to a local Thai who has grown up here and has many social contacts to help him/her in event of conflict. But money is power. And directed money is directed power.

Let us make a start towards moving away from being powerless victims.

And in the event that this case is unsolved, a donation to the families of these poor girls to help defray the expense of repatriating their bodies would be a good work by the farang community of Pattaya.

How naive some people are. Did you not see what happened to the contributions that were made to the tsunami victims in the south? They were "stolen" out of a safe in the local police station. ..

[pattaya_girl]

also, does anyone know if the police managed to speak to the deck chair attendant whom they supposedly had an argument with, and he apparently never showed up for work the next day ?????????

[Khun ?]

stamps in passport or not, drinking cheap whiskey or not, hookers or not, THEY DONT DESERVE TO DIE.....

Hope you are not just figuring this out. No one deserves to be shot and killed, specially in execution style.

No one has condone the murders so it is a mute statement to make.

By knowing the girls history a bit, the speculation of were they there for more than a vacation or working in

the seedey nightlife that Pattaya is well known for and many others do.

It is a place of crime, corruption, sex, drugs and hot headed locals that will shoot you for looking at them wrong in one nice little package. Two innocent girls show up, on their own, and gunned down in a few days for what seems to be nothing other than a early morning swim by themselves with a cheap booze up.

This is not a common circumstance in anyway.

Nice looking girls, cheap booze on early morning swim gunned down execution style in seedey town. This is things movies are made about. Didn't anyone talk to these girls about the dangers of the area and being on their own. Someone cared enough to buy their plane ticket but not enough about their welfare.

[bobbin]

How about this for a novel approach?

How naive some people are. Did you not see what happened to the contributions that were made to the tsunami victims in the south? They were "stolen" out of a safe in the local police station. ..

Ah..what fund would that be? Out of the many that successfully went where they could help.

A BANK account administered by farang and publicly dispersed by farang. A farang with a public image to protect.

[pattaya_girl]

whenever i go to jomtien beach, which is quite often, i only ever see the police chasing poor thai girls selling ice lollies - laughing. they should have chased this geezer !!!! sometimes they chase the wrong ones.

[bkkmick]

So, what do you think of this 'latest development'. The "farang" Chopper Gang allegedly (sp?) did it. (I guess that it's not boys on Raleigh Chopper bikes).

Again, I add to what others have already said, no matter what these two young girls were or were not involved with, they didn't deserve to be murdered. RIP.

Edited February 26, 2007 by bkkmick

[Prakanong]

"why should anyone apoligize for anything. If you do not want to read theory and speculation stick to newspapers."

Duh and double duh?????

There is plenty of theory and speculation in newspapers my friend but I take it might bwe a long time since you ever read a decent one.

Then there is a way of saing things such as

"Given the girls circumstances and location it may be that they were involved as sex workers etc etc"

and saying as many have posted here as though it is fact

"These were Russian whores probably killed by the Russian mafia pimps who brought them over"

Being subtle was obviously one of the classes you missed at school.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Prakanong

[Khun ?]

whenever i go to jomtien beach, which is quite often, i only ever see the police chasing poor thai girls selling ice lollies - laughing. they should have chased this geezer !!!! sometimes they chase the wrong ones.

Pattaya Girl exactly the problem. The police assigned there in that area do not like it because they cannot be

out taking bribes for no helmuts and what not, making as much in 1 hour as they will in two days of work. Several crimes of attack have happened very close to that police box and it is known as a place to not walk on your own any time of day.

Prakanong

Subtle, for two girls by themselves getting liquored up at 5 am in the morning in one of the most dangerous areas of Pattaya. I'll bet you they was the only ones that done this in the last 6 months at least, I would almost consider this sucide if it wasn't so pathetic. There has been several incidents of people being attacked for no reason in the middle of the day in that area. Watch out and do not step on any discarded needles of the local drug users.

They need to ball and chain this guy and let everyone shit and piss on him until he becomes deseased and dies in front of everyone. Same goes for all these people running around with guns or involved in violent crimes.

Well one thing it fits in with many of the foreigners the place attracts. It is no longer the sleepy little exotic

resort it was so well known for many years ago. As everywhere else, time to move on people the sleaze factor will be a long time to clean up.

[pattaya_girl]

well said khun. (and where do the ice lollies go?? back to the station for afternoon tea !!!!

[Pakboong]

Nobody has mentioned that these girls could be members of the Russian Mafia.

[LoveDaBlues]

It's so sad these young ladies had to die in this fashion. Murdered by some piece of garbage; perhaps because he was slighted (lost face).

And to be killed in this part of Thailand......like being snuffed out in some filthy, dirty, public toilet.

Unsuspecting tourists.....only see the surface and the dangerous waters below swallow them up.

[Paully900]

sure they were just tourists?

That was my first thought too

Who do you think they were? prostitutes? from Russia to Pattaya?

Terrible murder of innocent tourists, even if drunk and not polite to those

beach chair vendors.