TransferWise Considered Fraudulent By My US Bank

[rickb]

I have been using TransferWise for several months until yesterday.  I was advised by my US bank (USAA Federal Savings Bank) that they consider TransferWise a fraudulent account and will not allow me to transfer money to them anymore.  Just curious if anyone else has had a similar experience?  Personally, I think my bank has made a mistake.  But, there is no way I can USAA bank to reconsider.  This is obviously frustrating to me as I was enjoying the convenience and good rates with TransferWise.

[NCC1701A]

Transfer wise guys says they are partners with Wells Fargo Bank in the USA. But when I tried to link my Transferwise account to WFB their security people went crazy so I gave up. I am sure others have been successful.  

 

Transfer wise is not a USA company. UK I think. 

Did they actually use the words fraudulent?

 

17 minutes ago, rickb said:

a fraudulent account 

 

[rickb]

Yes, they advised me that USAA Bank's Fraud Investigation Department had reviewed the account and classified it as "fraudulent."  Those are the words they used with me.  I even explained that I knew of many people here in Thailand using TransferWise without problems.  But, they just turned a deaf ear.  Frustrating to say the least.  And yes, they are a UK company with international offices and using Wells Fargo Bank in the US.

 

[Old Croc]

7 minutes ago, rickb said:

Yes, they advised me that USAA Bank's Fraud Investigation Department had reviewed the account and classified it as "fraudulent."  Those are the words they used with me.  I even explained that I knew of many people here in Thailand using TransferWise without problems.  But, they just turned a deaf ear.  Frustrating to say the least.  And yes, they are a UK company with international offices and using Wells Fargo Bank in the US.

 

Sounds like the banks are kicking up about losing their fraudulent fees charged on international transfers.

[55Jay]

Thanks, good info to tuck away for ref. 

 

I've been meaning to give them a try the last 2 months but haven't.  Coincidentally, I looked up reviews about them last week as i needed to do my normal monthly transfer, and ran across quite a few negative reviews which I didn't recall seeing before, and they all seemed to have a common thread.

 

That TW accepts the funds then suspends the user's account without completing the transfer, and takes days or weeks to return the funds.  Some of the folks said they had done the same origin/destination transfer successfully many times, some even for a year or so, then all the sudden, ran into this problem.

 

Granted, the problem cases probably outnumber the satisfied customers by a lot.  I need to give it, or something, at try as like others, I'm caught in the scenario where my usual ACH transfer method, Schwab Bank to Bangkok Bank's NY Branch, won't work anymore after 1st of April this year.  

[racyrick]

5 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

Transfer wise guys says they are partners with Wells Fargo Bank in the USA. But when I tried to link my Transferwise account to WFB their security people went crazy so I gave up. I am sure others have been successful.  

 

Transfer wise is not a USA company. UK I think. 

Did they actually use the words fraudulent?

 

 

I did a test transfer last week using my WF account and no problems.

I did need a pincode to log in to WF on the TW template.

[GinBoy2]

My wife uses Transferwise linked to her BoA account, and I 'think' her WF account too.

 

She's never had any problems, but now I've said that I've probably just tugged the tail of fate!

[Pib]

Been quite a few months since I did a TW transfer....but mid 2018 I did "five" TW transfers....all of them funded using my USAA account.

[Pib]

rickb,

  Where you said USAA will not allow you to transfer funds to TW anymore, How were you doing that transfer?   

 

  Do you mean you were using a "Debit (ACH)" option to fund the transfer.....that is TW was just doing a typical ACH Pull transaction to fund the transfer?  

 

   OR, you have the borderless account option on your TW account and your were trying to transfer funds from USAA to your borderless account which is basically a TW routing and account number (i.e., just like a US bank account)?

[Pib]

And what the heck, since it's been around 6 months since my last TW transfer I just initiated another one which will be funded from my USAA account.  See what happens over the next day or two as it takes ACH transactions a day or two to flow....like between TW and USAA.  Will report back later. 

[steve73]

I think it was originally an Estonian company..

BBC had an article on it a few days ago..

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46985443

[trd]

I think it was originally an Estonian company..
BBC had an article on it a few days ago..
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46985443

That's a very reassuring article. It all seems to be legitimate. I've been using them for three years without a hitch.

[Buffy Frobisher]

(Sorry this is a bit long, but....) I tried them this month for the first time, and discovered a bunch of nasties that will keep me away from them. I started to setup an account on Jan 3 and got as far as typing in my GMail account details but then changed my mind and closed the browser window. TransferWise, being what I now believe is a shonky operation, grabbed my email details and referred to Google through their API and then populated their database with all my other details (name, address, phone etc) without even asking me, thereby setting up an account without me ever clicking "OK".

 

When I eventually wanted to actually setup an account and make a transfer on Jan 19 my name was already taken....by them! I eventually had to phone them to sort that out, after their website had recognised that I already had an account and took me straight to a transfer screen, bypassing some critical steps to setting up an account along the way.

 

With that fixed I then tried to send $100 to the USA, but they withheld the transfer and couldn't be bothered notifying me of the problem, which turned out to be that they needed my passport details in a scan (a reasonable request, but overlooked when they setup an account for me on Jan 3). So, if I had not logged into their website I would never have known there was an issue! By this stage we were 9 days into what was supposed to be a 3-day transfer.

 

So, as is good security practice, I inserted text across my passport scan that it was "For verification by TransferWise only", the text covering just one (alternate) eye in each of two pics, which their system accepted when I uploaded it. Then, when the transfer STILL didn't happen, and after sending more email I was told that I can't put a disclaimer on my passport copy! Why not? It's an accepted practice worldwide, including at other banks, to avoid identity theft.

 

The story rolls on, but the kicker was when I received an eventual answer to TWO emails I'd had to send then, with a support muppet saying to me "As you know phone calls/chats are the fastest way to answer your query."  Yet TransferWise apparently don't know how to make calls themselves when a transfer is delayed or on hold. It's clearly in their interest to hold your money in their account for as long as possible!

 

I would NEVER trust any company that demands a clean scan of my passport. There's something not quite right with that operation, and though their rates might be good, you pay more with the pain they inflict on you in the process, IMHO.

 

[Ahab]

Never had an issue or heard of an issue with TW prior to this post.

[trd]

(Sorry this is a bit long, but....) I tried them this month for the first time, and discovered a bunch of nasties that will keep me away from them. I started to setup an account on Jan 3 and got as far as typing in my GMail account details but then changed my mind and closed the browser window. TransferWise, being what I now believe is a shonky operation, grabbed my email details and referred to Google through their API and then populated their database with all my other details (name, address, phone etc) without even asking me, thereby setting up an account without me ever clicking "OK".
 
When I eventually wanted to actually setup an account and make a transfer on Jan 19 my name was already taken....by them! I eventually had to phone them to sort that out, after their website had recognised that I already had an account and took me straight to a transfer screen, bypassing some critical steps to setting up an account along the way.
 
With that fixed I then tried to send $100 to the USA, but they withheld the transfer and couldn't be bothered notifying me of the problem, which turned out to be that they needed my passport details in a scan (a reasonable request, but overlooked when they setup an account for me on Jan 3). So, if I had not logged into their website I would never have known there was an issue! By this stage we were 9 days into what was supposed to be a 3-day transfer.
 
So, as is good security practice, I inserted text across my passport scan that it was "For verification by TransferWise only", the text covering just one (alternate) eye in each of two pics, which their system accepted when I uploaded it. Then, when the transfer STILL didn't happen, and after sending more email I was told that I can't put a disclaimer on my passport copy! Why not? It's an accepted practice worldwide, including at other banks, to avoid identity theft.
 
The story rolls on, but the kicker was when I received an eventual answer to TWO emails I'd had to send then, with a support muppet saying to me "As you know phone calls/chats are the fastest way to answer your query."  Yet TransferWise apparently don't know how to make calls themselves when a transfer is delayed or on hold. It's clearly in their interest to hold your money in their account for as long as possible!
 
I would NEVER trust any company that demands a clean scan of my passport. There's something not quite right with that operation, and though their rates might be good, you pay more with the pain they inflict on you in the process, IMHO.
 

I've never come across a company that requires security confirmation that will accept a passport scan with a disclaimer over it. You just didn't follow the rules so it didn't work out for you. What do you expect?

[Pib]

21 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Never had an issue or heard of an issue with TW prior to this post.

Oh, just like any company, TW gets its fair share of complaints, unhappy customers.  Like if you go to the consumeraffairs website there are several hundred complaints against TW...."but this website is primarily used for complaints against a company."  

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/transferwise.html

 

Now go to the trustpilot website and of the almost 57,000 reviews on TW they get a 5 star rating, overwhelming people give them an excellent rating.  See snapshot at bottom.

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/transferwise.com

 

And keep in mind that in some (or many) of the complaints the full story may not be being told....it's pretty much a one-side story from the complainant  which may have left out some details about who and where they were transferring funds, their ID docs, their address, etc....just so many things can make a bank/money transfer company get suspicious about certain transactions.....and sometime they get it dead wrong in their suspicion...end up hanging an innocent customer.    But hey, if TW zaps/hangs me on the transfer I just initiated after doing 5 successful transfers in mid 2018 maybe I'll have a complaint to add to the consumersaffair and trustpilot websites also.   

 

 

 

[Pib]

By the way USAA just got fined by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau for doing some bankster stuff.  Here I thought USAA was a saintly type bank....but maybe they hired some former Wells Fargo banksters.

 

https://www.expressnews.com/business/local/article/USAA-Bank-must-pay-15-5M-over-banking-rule-13506348.php

[lopburi3]

Actually it may have something to do with this web site - which comes up if someone tries to find USAA International transfer information - promoting Transferwise over paying USAA bank fees.

https://transferwise.com/us/blog/international-transfer-usaa-us

[rickb]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

rickb,

  Where you said USAA will not allow you to transfer funds to TW anymore, How were you doing that transfer?   

 

  Do you mean you were using a "Debit (ACH)" option to fund the transfer.....that is TW was just doing a typical ACH Pull transaction to fund the transfer?  

 

   OR, you have the borderless account option on your TW account and your were trying to transfer funds from USAA to your borderless account which is basically a TW routing and account number (i.e., just like a US bank account)?

Hi Pib,

I have made 3 transfers in the last 3 months using USAA's "Transfer Funds" option on their website.  Previously, I had added the TransferWise account to my list of accounts to transfer money to from USAA.  I guess that makes it an ACH wire transfer, which with USAA is free to a US-based bank.  I've used the same process (before using TW) to send money to BKK Bank NY.  

 

I sent an e-mail to TW this morning and I'm waiting to see their response.  In the meantime, I've read about their Borderless Account and am trying to understand whether I can use an account like that to transfer my US-funds to Thailand.  I'm not sure if the rates are the same as the method I described above.  

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually it may have something to do with this web site - which comes up if someone tries to find USAA International transfer information - promoting Transferwise over paying USAA bank fees.

https://transferwise.com/us/blog/international-transfer-usaa-us

That just a Transferwise webpage comparing itself against USAA.  Google Transferwise along with any  various major US bank and google will probably first list a Transferwise webpages.

 

Like I just googled "Transferwise Bank of America" and I got below TW webpage where it compares itself to another major US bank, Bank of America.  

 

https://transferwise.com/us/blog/how-to-wire-money-bank-of-america

[lopburi3]

My Google was USAA international transfer - nothing to do with Transferwise but that page, and others from transferwise come up as USAA does not seem to have any public international transfer information (not surprising as they seem to hide simple things that other banks take for granted - like pay on death paperwork).

[rickb]

12 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Actually it may have something to do with this web site - which comes up if someone tries to find USAA International transfer information - promoting Transferwise over paying USAA bank fees.

https://transferwise.com/us/blog/international-transfer-usaa-us

Lopburi3, I think you may have hit the nail on the head.  After that comparison, it is no wonder USAA would be unhappy with TransferWise.  

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, rickb said:

Hi Pib,

I have made 3 transfers in the last 3 months using USAA's "Transfer Funds" option on their website.  Previously, I had added the TransferWise account to my list of accounts to transfer money to from USAA.  I guess that makes it an ACH wire transfer, which with USAA is free to a US-based bank.  I've used the same process (before using TW) to send money to BKK Bank NY.  

 

I sent an e-mail to TW this morning and I'm waiting to see their response.  In the meantime, I've read about their Borderless Account and am trying to understand whether I can use an account like that to transfer my US-funds to Thailand.  I'm not sure if the rates are the same as the method I described above.  

OK you don't have a borderless account so that's not the problem. 

 

But why do your initiate funding of the transfer from USAA to TW versus just letting TW "pull" the funds from your USAA bank account using the "Bank Debit (ACH)" funding option when doing the transfer. 

 

Sounds like you initiate the TW transfer but not immediately funding it.  You then log off TW, log onto your USAA account, and push the money to TW using some "send to this TW account number type info you get from TW."   That's doing it the hard, longer way.

 

But back to my main question, why don't you allow TW just to "pull" the funds from your USAA account versus you trying to push it to TW from USAA? 

 

I'm beginning to think the problem is how you are trying to fund the transfer....trying to push the money to TW from USAA versus letting TW pull the money from USAA.  And that "pushing" you are attempting is now going to a wrong account number which USAA is possibly flagging as fraudulent since it's getting a reject "now" for TW...maybe not before in earlier transfers.  

 

Below is a Transferwise webpage talking about contacting TW if you plan to "push" money via ACH.

 

 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

In the UK its authorised by the FCA which i think means client money is segregated and so it qualifies as protected

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, Pib said:

But back to my main question, why don't you allow TW just to "pull" the funds from your USAA account versus you trying to push it to TW from USAA? 

That could be the issue as I have always had TW pull from USAA (which USAA is very much slower to do than my other bank).  

[LucysDad]

Oh the irony........ an American bank accusing Transferwise of being fraudulent.

[Pib]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

And what the heck, since it's been around 6 months since my last TW transfer I just initiated another one which will be funded from my USAA account.  See what happens over the next day or two as it takes ACH transactions a day or two to flow....like between TW and USAA.  Will report back later. 

So far so good....below is the status of my TW transfer which I funded by USAA Bank Debit (ACH)...that is, TW pulls the money from my bank account via ACH.   

 

Now although it says below TW received my money from USAA within 3 hours it still doesn't show on my USAA ibanking.  But that's the way all my transfers have occurred....it usually a day or  two later before the transaction posts on my USAA ibanking which can give the impression the transfer request has not arrived yet or USAA is delaying in releasing the money, but it's just USAA not showing it even as a "Pending" transaction and instead waiting until the transaction completely settles within the ACH system and then "posting" the transaction.  This can give the impression USAA has not received the transfer request yet or is slowly releasing the funds but it's really just the way their ACH accounting system works.  Every bank is a little different with their accounting system/ibanking.

 

Now it appears the funds will arrive today...and if they do, I bet I will get a SMS from Bangkok Bank at 2:04pm that the transfer posted to my account.  I will then check my Bangkok Bank ibanking and it will show it posted at 2:02pm. I say that because all my previous TW to Bangkok Bank transfers have worked that way....just a few minutes after 2pm I get the funds posted notification. 

 

Now the one TW transfer I did to my Krungsri account that posting notification occur around 1:33pm.

 

Seems TW and its Thailand partner banks of Bangkok Bank, TMB, and Kaiskorn complete the final leg of a TW transfer to a Thai bank in the 1 to 3pm afternoon ballpark.   

 

Yea, I expect the funds will post to my Bangkok Bank account today (or tomorrow) a little after 2pm.  I've found the TW status updates many times are overly optimistic (for advertising purposes) regarding actual, final completion of the transfer.  Past transfers have averaged around 2 days.

 

[Henryford]

Sounds like sour grapes to me because they are losing business. Banks want to have the sole right to defraud you.

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Sounds like sour grapes to me because they are losing business. Banks want to have the sole right to defraud you.

I'm thinking it's purely an OP issue in that he tried "pushing" the funds from USAA to TW via ACH, had the wrong account info (or the account info changed from his last transfer) or maybe trying to make it appear as a bill payment versus a funds transfer (different animals although both are money movement), it got rejected back to USAA, and then USAA flagged it as possible fraudulent transaction.  When a transfer gets rejected back and depending on what the rejection message said the sending bank might "initially" flag the transaction as possibly suspicious/fraudulent and then begin researching it some more (or wait for the customer to contact them for further discussion).  

 

[mfd101]

People should also check monito.com. It rates different bank & non-bank sites for international transfers - ease of signing on, time for transaction, TOTAL COST of transaction (ie ALL fees + xrate).