BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[GeorgeCross]

1 minute ago, Oxx said:

If one doesn't update one's passbook for over six months, then the detailed transactions aren't printed - only a summary of the transactions.  (At least, that's been my experience with Krung Sri.)  So, in such a case Immigration won't be able to confirm whether the 400,000 minimum was maintained in the account.  It's an obvious loophole.

 

On the positive side, it means I'll be keeping my 800,000 in a long term fixed deposit and getting a slightly better interest rate.

 

i was wondering about that.. when the term runs out the interest drops to the "default" rate (usually 1%) - if we open a new FTD won't that break the money in an account for 12 months thingey? or can multiple accounts over the term be used?

 

 

[wgdanson]

19 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Because a Bkk Bank TW deposit will nto always show FTT. See other threads that have gone through this in detail. TW uses any of 3 banks for itst ransfers and it will show as FTT only if they used the same bank as your account.  At present they use Bkk Bank about 80-90% of the time (this could change) but not always.  Good chance that at least 1 out of 12 transfers will show as domestic, maybe more.

 

Monthly Swift transfers will show as FTT but you'll spend a fair amount on transfer fees.

 

Thank Sheryl. Just called my First Direct Bank in UK who tell me SWIFT transfers in GBP are FREE of charge. I did one in January, but it came out on my Foreign Currency Account statement as a NO BOOK TRANSFER, as did one from my Pension company. All my T'wise to my Savings account in THB say FTT.

It's a minefield. 

[stanleycoin]

Oops,  

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by stanleycoin

[Spidey]

6 minutes ago, madmen said:

15 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I originally planned on the "800k in a Thai bank" method. Then when the new rules on 65k baht income came out, I thought that I'd give that a try. Made my first transfer this month, always with having a backup of 800k baht method in mind.
 
Now, just praying that the 65k baht in a Thai bank method doesn't prove problematic. 800k baht method doesn't seem a very good option now.
 
Of course there's always the agency route as a backup......

How would the agent method work now?

Same as it always has done. You give the agent 15k baht.  Agent puts 800k in a Thai bank account. Takes copy of bank book and letter from bank saying that you have 800k baht in your bank account. Promptly removes 800k from your account and toddles off to immigration with bank book and bank letter. Pays IO an unspecified sum and IO waivers any need for seasoning. IO grants visa extension. Agent gives you your passport containing 12 months visa extension, job done. No need for 800k baht or any visits to IO.

[onera1961]

32 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

How much Thai baht appreciation? If the dollar has gone down a percent that would be an actual interest rate of 1.25%?  For the pound what would you need to break even in baht?

As I transfer 500 USD every week, I see the amount in Thai baht I get every week goes down 100 baht. Let's hope it does not slide to below 30 baht/dollar. 

[skatewash]

21 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Last paragraph ~ I wasn't in the room obviously, but my take on the US Embassy's actions from listing to the Deputy CG interview, was Thai Immi was being a bit hard headed about this, and disingenuous in their feigned belief that Income claims had been fully verified all along.  USE quietly added an additional disclaimer to the Affidavits but in the end, had to fold because they couldn't comply, or lie.

 

I do wonder what kind of process is being used by Embassies still producing Income Affidavits, and to what extent Thai Immigration has inspected and "approved" the process.  Or did those Embassies maintain a poker face and just tell the Thais what they wanted to hear.

1

How to maintain a poker face and just tell someone what they want to hear is basically the first lesson taught in diplomacy school.  Maybe our diplomats at the USE were all sick that day.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Shhhhhhh. I make my own vino, but not ale.

I can do a taste test to determine when it should be bottled. Just send a sample of a few gallons.

[zydeco]

1 hour ago, mercman24 said:

i have asked this before, so if you have a work permit, say earning 35,000 baht, none of this applies, but if you are a retired person, you have to show  65,000 income monthly, or 800,000  for 6 months, now, utter stupidity.

If you're a Westerner, the person/company sponsoring your work permit must pay you at least 50,000 per month. At least those were the rules last time I looked before I retired from my Thai job 3 1/2 years ago.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Yes, it said 1 March. But  it is unclera if that is the date on which all provisions come into the effect or the date from which all new extensions will fall under those rules?

Nothing in the oder goes into effect prior to March first. It it was retroactive it would state that.

[GeorgeCross]

10 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I disagree.  You can easily get a 6% dividend on a good U.S. utility stock.

 

a good US utility stock like PG&E for example? or should we only pick those that won't go bankrupt in the next 12 months? ????

[thaiowl]

One reason that I applied for (and was granted) Permanent Residence (PR) many years ago was that I was convinced that Thailand would gradually make it more difficult for foreigners to live here long term. This has come to pass and the laborious PR application process was a reasonable price to pay,

[Spellforce]

3 minutes ago, Oxx said:

If one doesn't update one's passbook for over six months, then the detailed transactions aren't printed - only a summary of the transactions.

In that case you can ask your bank to print a bank statment for the last 6 months.

That's what I'm doing every year, they charge me 100 or 200 bahts (I forgot the fees at Khasikorn Bank...).

[overherebc]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That is what I thought when I first read it. But looking closer at it is 2 months for every extension.

"(4) At least 2 months prior to filing date, and at least 3 months after being granted permission, the alien must have fund deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than THB 800,000. The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400,0"

Does that mean in fact that the 400,000 has to be maintained or does it mean you can't take more than 400,000 out from the 800,000 leaving 400,000 to show only at the end of three months meaning you could also use the remaining 400,000 during the remainder of the year and then top up to 800,000 for two months before your next extension.?  That would be the way of thinking to stop the use of agents.

[elliss]

11 minutes ago, madmen said:

20 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I originally planned on the "800k in a Thai bank" method. Then when the new rules on 65k baht income came out, I thought that I'd give that a try. Made my first transfer this month, always with having a backup of 800k baht method in mind.
 
Now, just praying that the 65k baht in a Thai bank method doesn't prove problematic. 800k baht method doesn't seem a very good option now.
 
Of course there's always the agency route as a backup......

How would the agent method work now?

   65K ,  a  mounth approx £2600,  a retired  civil servants pension , no prob .

    Out of the  reach , for us on working class pensions.

[CMNightRider]

1 minute ago, madmen said:

Sorry to burst your fantasy but those that can't afford 800k most certainly can NOT afford a 5 to 10 million baht condo paid for in cash!
Should be quite a few 4k fan rooms up for rental though

All I can say, is I hope you enjoy the fleas, lol.  I never mentioned purchasing a 5 to 10 million condo.  Most expats who live here rent apartments and condos but you already know that.  

 

I personally, don't know of anyone other than Thais who live in 4k fan rooms.  One can easily rent a nice 12,000 baht a month condo in the Nimmanhemin area, and many of these expats you are referring to do just that.  Hey, but thanks for the smug comment anyway. ????

[madmen]

Same as it always has done. You give the agent 15k baht.  Agent puts 800k in a Thai bank account. Takes copy of bank book and letter from bank saying that you have 800k baht in your bank account. Promptly removes 800k from your account and toddles off to immigration with bank book and bank letter. Pays IO an unspecified sum and IO waivers any need for seasoning. IO grants visa extension. Agent gives you your passport containing 12 months visa extension, job done. No need for 800k baht or any visits to IO.

New rules state that the money needs to be there for 3 months after extension. So another trip to immigration

How will your agent handle that

[KiChakayan]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

I think just use the same agent, only difference now is you will require 2 visits and twice the fee

 

I fail to see how these so called new rules change anything - the backdoor will remain open if you are willing to pay - what's new ?

Let's imagine someone who doesn't have a 65k income and cheated by giving 20k to an agent. Depending on the IO bribe the agent was getting roughly a 10 to 15 % yearly flat rate on his money (800000 * 10% / 6 = 6666).

Now at 10% it would cost 400000 * 10% + 400000*10% / 2 which equals 60000. So with the IO Christmas gift the agent service would cost anything between 70000 and 100000. Quite dissuasive for someone earning less than 65000 a month, isn't?

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Same as it always has done. You give the agent 15k baht.  Agent puts 800k in a Thai bank account. Takes copy of bank book and letter from bank saying that you have 800k baht in your bank account. Promptly removes 800k from your account and toddles off to immigration with bank book and bank letter. Pays IO an unspecified sum and IO waivers any need for seasoning. IO grants visa extension. Agent gives you your passport containing 12 months visa extension, job done. No need for 800k baht or any visits to IO.

I wouldn't be so sure that is going to work anymore. Immigration will want to see the full year's worth of bank statements as verification. Anything else is corruption.

I understand the head of Chiang Mai Immigration was removed a few months ago. My feeling is Big Joke is not messing around.

[Kenny202]

The simple solution is to put the equivalent of 800,000 into a bank account in your home country and simply send 65k a month to a bank in Thailand.  You then meet the 65k a month income requirement and problem solved. 
 

Is this sufficient for the monthly requirement now? I cant get an embassy letter (Australian) and I dont have a pension or income per se. But I do have money invested in Australia and it is preferable for me to leave it there. My extension renewal is August this year. If I start transferring 65k a month accross into my Thai bank account will that satisfy the requirement?

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, madmen said:

New rules state that the money needs to be there for 3 months after extension. So another trip to immigration

How will your agent handle that

IO will waiver it just as he does for the need for it to be there for 3 months before the extension.

[sumrit]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Same as it always has done. You give the agent 15k baht.  Agent puts 800k in a Thai bank account. Takes copy of bank book and letter from bank saying that you have 800k baht in your bank account. Promptly removes 800k from your account and toddles off to immigration with bank book and bank letter. Pays IO an unspecified sum and IO waivers any need for seasoning. IO grants visa extension. Agent gives you your passport containing 12 months visa extension, job done. No need for 800k baht or any visits to IO.

Until the IO's have to enforce the ' must apply in person rule'.

[GeorgeCross]

11 minutes ago, skatewash said:

Not to mention that you can't touch the 800k (during six months sequestration) or the 400k (ever) to pay for any expenses like health care costs.  If you do use that money to pay such expenses you will not get a new extension the next time you apply because you will have dropped below the required balances.  So, no, the sequestration policies instituted by this new rule do nothing to guarantee that someone will be able to pay their own health care costs.  Quite the opposite, actually.

 

the whole thing stinks of a stealthy way or raising the money in the bank amount without actually raising it, and dealing with all that nasty 'grandfathering' business..

 

now we need 400K at all times plus the 800K annual spending money = 1.2M ????

 

or am i giving them too much credit??!

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

15 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Banks can give loans to Thais with jobs to spend in buying houses, cars. Another way to use foreign money to lift up native middle class. Tourist will be enough to life up the other sector of economy like by buying in malls, restaurants, tour tickets, etc.

Oh please don't forget the increase in atm fees for foreigners. 220 baht a transaction helps those banks. 

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Does that mean in fact that the 400,000 has to be maintained or does it mean you can't take more than 400,000 out from the 800,000 leaving 400,000 to show only at the end of three months meaning you could also use the remaining 400,000 during the remainder of the year and then top up to 800,000 for two months before your next extension.?  That would be the way of thinking to stop the use of agents.

For me the minimum balance history requirement between Extensions is now :

(X)  800 800 800 / 400 400 400 / 400 400 400 / 400 800 800  (X+1) ....

 

[onera1961]

23 minutes ago, madmen said:

How would the agent method work now?

It depends on how the verification works. If it's at the time for renewal and the punishment of not adhering to the rule is a denial of renewals only, agents have to treat every application as new application. That means one must leave the country, come back on a tourist or Non-O visa, and start the process. More money for agents may be. 

Rules are spelled out but punishments are not. So, I would guess the punishment is a denial of following year's extension. If it is arrest, IDC, and ban, it will be chaotic.

Edited February 1, 2019 by onera1961

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

Let's imagine someone who doesn't have a 65k income and cheated by giving 20k to an agent. Depending on the IO bribe the agent was getting roughly a 10 to 15 % yearly flat rate on his money (800000 * 10% / 6 = 6666).

Now at 10% it would cost 400000 * 10% + 400000*10% / 2 which equals 60000. So with the IO Christmas gift the agent service would cost anything between 70000 and 100000. Quite dissuasive for someone earning less than 65000 a month, isn't?

Using the agent method, the money is only "loaned" to you for an hour or 2. Service currently costs i.r.o. 15k baht. Probably will rise but not to the extent you suggest.

[madmen]

IO will waiver it just as he does for the need for it to be there for 3 months before the extension.

So a double payment. Immigration now has Double exposure to corruption. How long will that last?

[notamember]

6 minutes ago, stanleycoin said:

I disagree, the uk government was the one that started the ball rolling. if they had left it all alone , it would all still be fine.

its not a case of coincidence.

 

American and Australians telling lies on their affidavits are the root cause of Immigration finding the letters unacceptable

The British embassy at least tried to verify the money and demanded proof of the income being claimed by the applicant for the letter

The others just took the word of the applicant, took the money and stamped what the applicant said without seeing any proof

So the liars from USA and Australia are the real cause not the embassies or the UK government

This really started in Chiang Mai last year when they started asking awkward question of income letter supported applicants from USA like;

Ok, we see the letter, now show me the money!

[Kenny202]

     I never ever got a straight answer if the Thai Banking system was insured and guaranteed.  In other words in most of the developed world the banks are insured against deposit losses which might occur during a great natural disaster, economic destabilization or government change over that backfires.  Some TVF members swore YES YES YES.  Others said it was as complicated question.  A few said only for Thai citizens.  Others said there was a law that the original deposit had to be in Thai currency to make it insured.  Or a thai citizen had to be on the account also. 
     There have been cases all over the developing world where the banking system just suddenly deflated and the deposits were gone. It happened during the great depression in the 1920's in the USA and Germany the more developed world.  Those countries have insured their banks.  It should not happen again.  It has happened in latin and african countries very recently. 
     Does anyone really definitively know?  I know I am bound to get the answers from our more elderly and out of retirees telling the tellers are nice and friendly or the bank manager dresses well.  These are not criteria for making a deposit in the bank.
     So I see reasons not to have savings here!  On the other hand this is really just about the amount of money I spend when I live in Thailand.  It certainly would not be my life savings. I would keep the bulk of my money in the USA.

Just because the banks are "insured" anywhere is no guarantee unless govt guaranteed. Recently saw a doco on the housing collapse in the USA, Fanny Macs etc and they say the insurance system is 50 times more fragile than the banking system. Some of these insurance companies underwritten by a string of 10 other sub underwriters. Its ok wen everything is stable but should there be a catastrophic event will fall like a house of cards

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[notamember]

11 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Same as it always has done. You give the agent 15k baht.  Agent puts 800k in a Thai bank account. Takes copy of bank book and letter from bank saying that you have 800k baht in your bank account. Promptly removes 800k from your account and toddles off to immigration with bank book and bank letter. Pays IO an unspecified sum and IO waivers any need for seasoning. IO grants visa extension. Agent gives you your passport containing 12 months visa extension, job done. No need for 800k baht or any visits to IO.

you have to appear in person now for a photo session