BREAKING NEWS Foreigners now need to keep 800k in Thai bank for three months AFTER retirement extension is granted

[elviajero]

7 minutes ago, notamember said:

no, agents stock just doubled

Only the crooked ones.

 

Time will tell if BJ backs up words with actions and goes after the IO's too.

 

Next, I can see retirement applications going under 30 day consideration and being signed off as they do with family applications.

Edited February 2, 2019 by elviajero

[farangx]

37 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you use an agent, no need to show anything to anyone, apart from the 25k bribe.

Have you ever done this? There's no passbook, no money, no loan, no bank account.

Just the bribe.

That should be the way when using an agent.  How the agent goes about doing it is irrelevant as long as he gets that stamp on the passport. And don't forget to get a single or multiple re-entry permit after that.

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by farangx

[MikeOKitches]

1 minute ago, annabel said:

Mike I am sorry but no I did not see your post as I gave up reading on this 104 page issue at page10 and the reason I saw UKRULES post is because it came through in the 70+ mails all related to this and as I was deleting them all I saw his post but I somehow missed yours .... and only saw it after I opened UKRULES one .... and I also replied to you saying Thank You and no worries! Please don't take all this personally.... there was no mal intent there at all....

Fair enough, and thank you for your reassuring comment. ????????

[madmen]

I was not the one who started denying the low living costs here, the rapidly falling prices of condo-rentals, telling us we were living in shoeboxes, etc.  I haven't lived there in over a year now, but have friends who still do.

You need to see a specialist

[boonrawdcnx]

Please do not confuse good Thai people with the clique of bad-apple vultures operating within immigration.   The Thais I know and deal with on a daily basis are not like that at all, and they do not respect those who do operate with that mindset. 

That’s why I said “for so many “ and never meant all Thai people - In my long experience in Thailand I have hardly ever encountered a problem with the regular Thai folks - the opposite is the case.

Whenever I encounter these “vultures” as you call them it is at government offices, in local businesses and when meeting the so called “higher educated” here - there are plenty more than a few “bad apples” here and they have no shame.
People who think respect comes with a position and does not have to be earned or others who blatantly try to rip you off.

Well I do respond to them but usually not in the way they expect - and we usually do not part as friends.

And if a IO tells me the 800.000 baht are supposed to be moving and not sitting in a fixed deposits account - I tell them friendly but frankly that as long as I abide by the rules - it is non of their business what I do with my money - and end of discussion.
They don’t like it? I don’t care!




Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[elviajero]

8 hours ago, JackThompson said:

17 hours ago, elviajero said:

18 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I think this is a mistaken parallel to draw.  The military has shut-down some local scams in the past.  It was the PM who asked immigration to "be flexible" when applying the new Visa Exempt rules.  The problems with immigration have been getting worse throughout successive administrations before this one.  The PM / Military did not direct these changes - at least, that we know of.  It seems to be a clique in the middle-levels who seem to want to hurt us for no logical reason. 

Are you talking about corruption or the legitimate clampdown of long term tourism?

There is no legitimate "clampdown on long term tourism" because "long term tourism" is not illegal.  Clearly, policies have been taken in that direction anyway, with the very-predictable negative results for the businesses that served them - with their formerly-employed Thais now working for dirt-wages or subsistence farming, again.

I didn't say it was illegal. But you cannot possibly deny the clampdown. Would you like the list of every change made by immigration sine 2006 to make it harder to live in the country as a tourist? The evidence of a clampdown is indisputable.

 

The last sentence is more unfounded speculation, and frankly naive nonsense.

 

8 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Very true - they are.  I am basing that on the PM trying to get immigration to back-off of their Visa-Exempt "tightening" - I have listened to a lot of weekly talks, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would just stick a knife in the back of thousands of expats by making this change w/o ample warning.

His comment at the time was purely for PR.

 

During the PM's watch - at land crossings - discretion became a 2 entry set limit. The knife is in with the PM's knowledge and presumed blessing.

Edited February 2, 2019 by elviajero

[notamember]

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Only the crooked ones.

 

Time will tell if BJ backs up words with actions and goes after the IO's too.

 

Next, I can see retirement applications going under 30 day consideration and being signed off as they do with family applications.

that would make them all crooked then under your synopsis as they all do the same thing

However the quality of the application varies as much as the costs

you want your ass covered for everything but the seasoning then you will pay 20-25k

if you don't care and just want the stamp in your passport stamped for another year then 12-15k is the norm

but at the end of the day the final decision to approve either application lies with immigration not the agent

over the last 6 months there has been a overall tightening up of the procedure for agents engagement with immigration to protect the system and make it look more legitimate

 

 

[skatewash]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

What does BTN stand for?

 

By government service pensions, I assume you mean 'Armed forces' pensions as opposed to government 'state' pensions.

https://www.bot.or.th/English/PaymentSystems/PSServices/bahtnet/Pages/default.aspx

[JackThompson]

37 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Even Trump has been instrumental in destroying American jobs. Who do you think his hotels and golf courses employ for the menial tasks? Why do you think American consumers buy goods produced elsewhere? Because the cost of labor of American workers is uneconomic for many businesses.

You're complaining about the effect, not the cause.

Feel free to @ me on another forum to discuss Trump (hint: I'm probably not as much of a fan as you might assume - especially after his 2-yr performance assessment). 

In the case of Thailand, would restaurant prices for Western visitors be "too high" if the kitchen staff had to be paid what Thais would accept - a few K-Baht more/mo? 

What about condo building-cost/sq/meter paying Thais vs Cambodians?  How much more actual labor-cost per-condo would be added?  Would that make them unprofitable to sell - even at the same prices?  Or would it just cut a bit of profits from the top of the food-chain? 
What about the cost/unit overhead to keep the condo-building cleaned by a Thai - how much Baht/yr would the extra few K-Baht/mo/worker add up to per resident/unit/year? 

Once you break it down into those terms, you realize who this "race to the lowest wage" game is designed to benefit.  It isn't the consumer - it's those who are already rich, squeezing a bit more profit per-unit out for themselves.

 

We Westerners are helping hold those wages up, by spending money in businesses that pay above-average.  Our "replacements" don't have that effect.

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, overherebc said:

Yep. you bring in 800,000 live on fresh air for 5 months then take 400,000 out to live on for 4 months then bring in another 400,000 so you can live on fresh air for 6 months, rinse and repeat.

Possible correction to the rules would be some out some in to have 800,000 or 400,000 to show when needed. Let's face it everybody must have some kind of income.

that makes a lot of sense, the short way to put is... we are screwed!

[JackThompson]

37 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The days of money lending are almost certainly over, because on renewal you need to show a passbook with 5 months min balance of 800K and the other 7 months with a min balance of 400K. A big difference to 800K for 2/3 months.

 

It will only be out and out fraudulent applications signed off by a corrupt IO that will get thorough now. And it seems BJ could be going to go after them too.

The lending would have been over with the 3-mo seasoning rule, except for the agents.  Maybe in 30K/yr agent-fee areas, a non-immigration-connected lender could compete - barely.  Now it's 5 months for 800K and 400K for the year - but that is just more "seasoning," really - and agent-apps are not checked for seasoning at all.  

 

So unless the agents are shut-down, this only further insulates them from alternate-lender competition.  That's the only change I see so far.  Will BJ shut down the agents?  They could have shut down the agents with the 3 mo seasoning, if that were the goal.  We shall see, but so far, it looks like a gift to them.

[David Walden]

3 hours ago, lucjoker said:

yes, i was wrong.......it is not 800 000 but 400 000 thb to bring in every year.

Plus the extra trips to bank and immigration to prove you are a good boy.

Plus the need to be in the country to do all these trips.

Some people dont spend more than a few months a year in Thailand, because ,except for the few winter months , it is too hot for older people .

And again you are right, English is not my first language, that would be a big handicap .

English is only my 4th language , not perfect ,but i have not the limited vision of only 1 language, as most "first language" people.I'm sure you speak a lot af languages so i'm not ridiculing you .

Have a nice day. 

 

 

 

I think it may be prudent to expect that Thai Immigration assumes that each applicant who deposits Bt800,000 in a bank account to get a retirement visa also has some sort of other pension from somewhere in addition to the qualifying amount.  If the Bt800,000 is all an applicant has in the world and no other ongoing income, well THAILAND as a retirement destination is clearly not for them.

[Straight8]

On 2/1/2019 at 12:14 AM, fullcave said:

Good, one should have at least that much available in case of accidentally hitting one's head on the pool bottom to pay for hospital.

And probably a bit more.

 

Really, retiring on 27K USD. ******** ridiculous, then going and getting married and all the financial burdens it brings with it.

 

I can't believe how many people have retired here with so little for a good life.

 

I wouldn't even think about relocating to another country with less than 500K (USD equivalent).

[elviajero]

7 minutes ago, notamember said:

that would make them all crooked then under your synopsis as they all do the same thing

However the quality of the application varies as much as the costs

you want your ass covered for everything but the seasoning then you will pay 20-25k

if you don't care and just want the stamp in your passport stamped for another year then 12-15k is the norm

but at the end of the day the final decision to approve either application lies with immigration not the agent

over the last 6 months there has been a overall tightening up of the procedure for agents engagement with immigration to protect the system and make it look more legitimate

Many people use agents and the applicant is 100% legit. Agents are not the problem. Crooked agents working with corrupt IO's are.

 

The idea that any changes coming from the top of immigration are meant to help the corrupt agents/IO's is complete bat shit nonsense.

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The lending would have been over with the 3-mo seasoning rule, except for the agents.  Maybe in 30K/yr agent-fee areas, a non-immigration-connected lender could compete - barely.  Now it's 5 months for 800K and 400K for the year - but that is just more "seasoning," really - and agent-apps are not checked for seasoning at all.  

The 3 months seasoning rule is not waived for agents. Agents and the IO in their pocket produce fake paperwork showing a passbook with the required money.

[ivor bigun]

So what would happen if you were taken ill and had to use your 400,000 baht for a medical emergancy,would you then be in breach and deported,?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Straight8]

On 2/1/2019 at 1:13 AM, sfokevin said:

Your wife must not be 100% Thai... 

Maybe he taught his wife to be wise with money, something it seems you lack by the simple fact you're surprised someone keeps 3 million at all times in a Bank account.

 

3 million baht or equivalent sitting in a bank, in today's world should not be a challenge to achieve.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

So what would happen if you were taken ill and had to use your 400,000 baht for a medical emergancy,would you then be in breach and deported,?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

We have no information yet as to enforcement on this new order. But yes, obviously, the order clearly implies you are not allowed to go under the 400K by even one baht for any reason.

Repeat after me -- ONEROUS!

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Many people use agents and the applicant is 100% legit. Agents are not the problem. Crooked agents working with corrupt IO's are.

Agree.  That is where this should have started and ended - leaving the rest of us alone. No more pointless rule-changes.  Just clean up your own house.

 

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The idea that any changes coming from the top of immigration are meant to help the corrupt agents/IO's is complete bat shit nonsense.

This assumes the money does not work it's way upward.  I find it hard to believe it does not, given the public-advertisements for years for "no money needed" retirement extensions.   From what I can tell, the only question is "how high up" does it go?

 

2 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The 3 months seasoning rule is not waived for agents. Agents and the IO in their pocket produce fake paperwork showing a passbook with the required money.

Fake passbook info is put in the file?  That seems reckless, to leave a paper-trail.  I admit I don't know the finer-points (never used an agent), but reports indicate the IO just reviews the passbook - and "forgets" to do it with agent-applications.  Others say a senior IO "waives the seasoning requirement" - but without evidence, who knows?

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, ivor bigun said:

So what would happen if you were taken ill and had to use your 400,000 baht for a medical emergancy,would you then be in breach and deported,?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Technically yes. If the bank balance drops below 400K immigration could cancel the extension. But in the unlikely event that happened you could probably get an extension on medical grounds.

 

The only time I see this becoming an issue is at the annual renewal. If they see the balance drop below the required 400K in the past year they could, IMO, deny the next extension. Time will tell.

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

So what would happen if you were taken ill and had to use your 400,000 baht for a medical emergancy,would you then be in breach and deported,?

Make sure the hospital immediately files for a medical-extension, or overstay could begin?

 

Or maybe not, since there is no indication how this system would be checked/enforced.  Maybe it just means you cannot renew next year due to the breech of rules?

 

Bummer if you go to the hospital just before you need your extension.  Back to the medical-extension or go running about like a tourist (if well enough) for Visa-Exempts, Tourist Visas, etc.

[Straight8]

On 2/1/2019 at 2:09 AM, mikosan said:

Well, I really can't be bothered to read the whole of the previous 35 pages of, what is probably mostly ill-informed, bigoted or anti Thai b*****t, so I'll just say, about time too.  Hopefully this and the new rule with regards to income, will finally help to get rid of the hangers-on, criminals and others who should not be here in the first place and leave those of us who comply in peace. Happy days.

You should, there are some interesting comments!!

[Pattaya46]

15 minutes ago, David Walden said:

// If the Bt800,000 is all an applicant has in the world and no other ongoing income,

well THAILAND as a retirement destination is clearly not for them.

He could still send this 800k home and then use the 12 x 65k method 

[keemapoot]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

We have no information yet as to enforcement on this new order. But yes, obviously, the order clearly implies you are not allowed to go under the 400K by even one baht for any reason.

Repeat after me -- ONEROUS!

I suppose the other thing is that the rule is still in place that the account has to be solely in the name of the retiree. That means that for those who share the account with a spouse or partner and have an ATM card issued (even if in solely their own name), that they now have to very clearly instruct that partner to never withdraw money below that threshold. i can see many inadvertent mistakes being made that would have the effect of disqualifying for extension.

 

I suppose the only way is to cancel any ATM card anyone else has on that account, further restricting the usage of the account.

[Samuel Smith]

15 minutes ago, Straight8 said:

And probably a bit more.

 

Really, retiring on 27K USD. ******** ridiculous, then going and getting married and all the financial burdens it brings with it.

 

I can't believe how many people have retired here with so little for a good life.

 

I wouldn't even think about relocating to another country with less than 500K (USD equivalent).

You keep 500k in cash deposits?

 

A lot of people have similar reserves, but probably mostly in investments, & prefer to keep cash deposits to a minimum.

[Straight8]

6 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

You keep 500k in cash deposits?

 

A lot of people have similar reserves, but probably mostly in investments, & prefer to keep cash deposits to a minimum.

I didn't mean to have it all in cash (though why not if you one is not confident in other forms) , but yes, investments spread out, liquid enough to make any adjustments necessary at the press of a few buttons.

[notamember]

44 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The lending would have been over with the 3-mo seasoning rule, except for the agents.  Maybe in 30K/yr agent-fee areas, a non-immigration-connected lender could compete - barely.  Now it's 5 months for 800K and 400K for the year - but that is just more "seasoning," really - and agent-apps are not checked for seasoning at all.  

 

So unless the agents are shut-down, this only further insulates them from alternate-lender competition.  That's the only change I see so far.  Will BJ shut down the agents?  They could have shut down the agents with the 3 mo seasoning, if that were the goal.  We shall see, but so far, it looks like a gift to them.

'''The lending would have been over with the 3-mo seasoning rule, except for the agents''

who do the agents work with Jack?

why is it agents that are responsible?

you have such a hard on for agents, its pathetic

Edited February 2, 2019 by notamember

[notamember]

34 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The 3 months seasoning rule is not waived for agents. Agents and the IO in their pocket produce fake paperwork showing a passbook with the required money.

ha, that is the most stupid thing yet said on this thread

i thought better of you

 

[JackThompson]

 

6 minutes ago, notamember said:

The lending would have been over with the 3-mo seasoning rule, except for the agents

who do the agents work with Jack?

Immigration.  If the goal was to get rid of the fakers, all that needed to happen, was that IOs could not "forget" or otherwise skip the seasoning.  No need for a rule-change

 

6 minutes ago, notamember said:

why is it agents that are responsible?

you have such a hard on for agents, its pathetic

Not really.  The agents only exist because immigration opens the niche for their market. 

I would not care if an "agent route" existed, provided honest-applicants were not being put through the wringer to literally herd them like cattle to the agents.  This was how it was at Chang Wattana for years.  Similarly for retirement-only at Jomtien (marriage and Non-O stamps were pushed-hard to agents).

 

As an example of the set-up here, given the "new rules":

 

18 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

That means that for those who share the account with a spouse or partner and have an ATM card issued (even if in solely their own name), that they now have to very clearly instruct that partner to never withdraw money below that threshold. i can see many inadvertent mistakes being made that would have the effect of disqualifying for extension.

Oops - it's "Agent Time".  Same thing for the new "income method" if one of your monthly payments misses the mark (not marked international, below-threshold due to exchange-rate or fees, etc)

 

The more convoluted the rules are, the more people will get tripped-up and have to pay off immigration through an agent.  Immigration are the ones making the rules which protect and expand the agent nice-market.  You can guess why.

 

 

[Pattaya46]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

The agents only exist because immigration opens the niche for their market. 

The agents only exist because there are expats asking for this service...