Which countries give permanent residence to foreigners?

[mpyre]

On 2/1/2019 at 1:39 AM, Jingthing said:

Off the top of head (confirm yourself of course) these ones --

 

Panama

Colombia (after 5 years retirement status)

Peru

Mexico

Ecuador

Plus Uruguay and Paraguay...can obtain passport in both in only three years, and 5 years in Mexico. I just got PR in Mexico as a potential back door in case I ever need to relocate, and it was very simple. 

[WyrldTraveler]

10 hours ago, crees said:

North Korea, all's you have to do is make sure they see your bible … no 90 day check-ins … would be great for a few of the posters here. On the serious side, a few countries in South America if you don't mind living in an ex-pat walled compound community, and always being in a group with armed guards when outside the walls. Good news is it pretty cheap to live there.

Many of the commenters on TV and other forums gather all of their information from mainstream media sources, which have a horrible record of reporting.  Political bias is rampant in English-based media worldwide and American media preaches that the world is a dangerous place (so you better stay right here in Kansas or Wherever). 

 

Even the US State Department is tainted, proclaiming that the whole country of Panama is a hotbed of Yellow Fever (even though it is mostly in the deep jungles of the Darien where there aren't even any roads!)  Thailand was at heightened risk, according to State, during the Yellow Shirt demonstrations.  If you weren't in the four blocks around the demonstrations, it was pretty tame, in my experience.  But the US State Department was warning of political instability as if the whole country was mobilizing for civil war and as if mass defections of Army units were occurring.

 

I don't care about your politics; one of the benefits of being an expat is the ability to interact with people who have different perspectives in an environment where you can change your mind without being excommunicated from the community.  Expats have permission to be different (exotic) as we never deviated from the local norms; we arrived deviants from the local norms and (some) adapt.

 

The only difference between 'Permanent' residency and 'Temporary' Residency is that the former  is a longer-term version of the latter.  Both can be cancelled at a whim.  Nothing is forever.

[WyrldTraveler]

2 minutes ago, mpyre said:

Plus Uruguay and Paraguay...can obtain passport in both in only three years, and 5 years in Mexico. I just got PR in Mexico as a potential back door in case I ever need to relocate, and it was very simple. 

The passport option is increasingly difficult.  They want to see actual ties to the country such as business, investments, friendships, church participation, learning to speak some Guarani, etc. 

 

I was in Asuncion in December and inquired. 

 

The situation on the street was fairly calm.  Aside from the odd street urchin respectfully asking for a donation, there was no feeling of danger in the downtown business district.  There was a strong police presence and they were armed to the teeth, but that is fairly normal in most of the Americas these days.

 

I have multiple legal residencies, just in case.  I would not last long in the Great White North as I have no tolerance for politically-correct nonsense like gender politics.

[Jingthing]

Passport depends on the country. As I said some of the nations that offer a path to permanent residence (sometimes very quickly) for retirement status also offer a longer path to optional citizenship. That's the connection. Living there for some years and passing their other requirements which might include language proficiency, etc. Different than buying passports, a different thing, mostly wealthy people are interested in that and usually appropriately expensive. Paraguay might be an exception of having an easier passport, but the issue here is mostly for people that want to LIVE in a new place and Paraguay is not a popular choice for that. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Jingthing

[mpyre]

Mexico citizenship is quite straightforward...5 years of residency and, if over 60, no citizenship test required. Another huge plus is that a PR does NOT require you to live in Mexico for any set period of time...once you have it you can travel the world for years. And it never has to be renewed. 

The financial requirements might be too stiff for many at the equivalent of about US$2400 per month, or $100,000 in the bank (any bank...USA, Europe, etc.) but well worth it if you can swing it.

And as for all the BS floating around here about how dangerous Latin America is...well it's BS. Friendly people and rarely a problem if you respect the culture and keep your nose clean.

Edited February 2, 2019 by mpyre

[WyrldTraveler]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Passport depends on the country. As I said some of the nations that offer a path to permanent residence (sometimes very quickly) for retirement status also offer a longer path to optional citizenship. That's the connection. Living there for some years and passing their other requirements which might include language proficiency, etc. Different than buying passports, a different thing, mostly wealthy people are interesting in and appropriately expensive. Paraguay might be an exception of having an easier passport, but the issue here is mostly for people that want to LIVE in a new place and Paraguay is not a popular choice for that. 

For those interested in second passports, many countries offer naturalization after a period of time.  Some offer naturalization/citizenship-by-investment.  None of them are 'fast' if legit.

 

Retirement visas are relatively inexpensive for those on a budget.  If you are worried about changes, it would behoove you to look at other options. 

 

Naturalization is a nice hobby to pursue if you are interested in further securing your status.  I'm on Year Two of one application.  It is neither easy nor fun.

 

Paraguay is very inexpensive, good water,cheap electricity and no snow.  Ecuador and Peru are also inexpensive right now.  Compared to those, Panama is relatively expensive.  Colombia seems to be improving, but there are factors like refugees from Venezuela and the broken promises to FARC to consider.  I have reliable sources and boots-on-the-ground experience in Colombia and Ecuador. 

 

Costa Rica has a history of cancelling their residency visa programs with short notice, so I am wary of their programs.

 

 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, WyrldTraveler said:

For those interested in second passports, many countries offer naturalization after a period of time.  Some offer naturalization/citizenship-by-investment.  None of them are 'fast' if legit.

 

Retirement visas are relatively inexpensive for those on a budget.  If you are worried about changes, it would behoove you to look at other options. 

 

Naturalization is a nice hobby to pursue if you are interested in further securing your status.  I'm on Year Two of one application.  It is neither easy nor fun.

 

Paraguay is very inexpensive, good water,cheap electricity and no snow.  Ecuador and Peru are also inexpensive right now.  Compared to those, Panama is relatively expensive.  Colombia seems to be improving, but there are factors like refugees from Venezuela and the broken promises to FARC to consider.  I have reliable sources and boots-on-the-ground experience in Colombia and Ecuador. 

 

Costa Rica has a history of cancelling their residency visa programs with short notice, so I am wary of their programs.

 

 

There is some good info there but my research shows that at least currently Colombia is a better value than Ecuador. If your dollar based anyway. Ecuador uses the dollar but the dollar is very strong against the Colombian peso. Also things like consumer goods (cars, electronics, etc.) are much cheaper in Colombia because of different treatment of import duties. Rent it depends on where you live. Medellin has become super popular so the rents in the more expat popular areas are getting on the expensive side and there is gringo pricing that can be very difficult to avoid even if you speak Spanish. 

 

I don't see the appeal of Paraguay as a place to live.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Jingthing

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Just go the Guatemala or Costa Rica join one of the caravans heading to the USA.  Not only do you get lifetime residency you get subsidized housing, food stamps, free healthcare, and free education.  PS it helps to mention at your asylum hearing that you will vote Democrat. 

 

Of course, it doesn't hurt that everything you said in the above post is false. The only people who get in in the manner you suggest are pretty much those who can make a legal case for political asylum status, which was already a high bar before and now even higher under Trump. And AFAIK, even that doesn't give any of those people any guarantee of lifetime residency in the U.S.

 

In reality, most the kind of people you're referring to above either never make it into the U.S. at all, or they do, wait for a hearing before an Immigration judge, and most probably end up being sent back to their home countries.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, biggles45 said:

I have had the Philippine SRRV mentioned in an earlier post for 7 years. In that time I have NEVER been to an immigration office, no 90 day reporting, no exit permits, nada. You can qualify as young as 35, but the requirements are more expensive. Www.pra.gov.ph

 

Did you have to bribe anyone in order to either a] actually get the SRRV, or b] get any related documents or processes required to complete your SRRV app.

 

Serious question... Not joking...

 

[WyrldTraveler]

45 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't see the appeal of Paraguay as a place to live.

No one place is right for everyone.  Ever wonder why so many people are trying to get into Europe and North America while the expats are fleeing? 

 

The approach I take with my clients is to suggest that they go and check it out for themselves.

 

If we change the paradigm from "I'm right and everyone who disagrees is wrong" to simply sharing information (including our opinions) freely, then we might get somewhere.  Everyone has someplace they want to live for some period of time.  Some expats fold up their tents and go back to the homeland with a fresh perspective on the place. 

 

It's a journey, not a destination. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

 Paraguay might be an exception of having an easier passport, but the issue here is mostly for people that want to LIVE in a new place and Paraguay is not a popular choice for that. 

 

 

But but but... you mean, I've wasted all these years learning a bit of Thai, and it's going to do me absolutely no good anywhere in Central or South America????   I'm gutted. My faith in Prayut is shattered!!! 

 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, WyrldTraveler said:

No one place is right for everyone.  Ever wonder why so many people are trying to get into Europe and North America while the expats are fleeing? 

 

The approach I take with my clients is to suggest that they go and check it out for themselves.

 

If we change the paradigm from "I'm right and everyone who disagrees is wrong" to simply sharing information (including our opinions) freely, then we might get somewhere.  Everyone has someplace they want to live for some period of time.  Some expats fold up their tents and go back to the homeland with a fresh perspective on the place. 

 

It's a journey, not a destination. 

I totally agree it's a very personal choice of course.

However, the reality is that most people don't have the resources to travel everyplace that might be the right fit for them.

So we have advantages these days in being able to do a lot of research online in order to narrow down likely choices.

Of course that only goes so far.

I've arrived in a number of places that I thought would be potential places to live only to realize very quickly that I wouldn't. 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

However, the reality is that most people don't have the resources to travel everyplace that might be the right fit for them.

It's only $50 to bounce around SEA countries, if you choose the discount air fares, or use the bus.

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, WyrldTraveler said:

Ever wonder why so many people are trying to get into Europe and North America

Because they're dirt poor.

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It's only $50 to bounce around SEA countries, if you choose the discount air fares, or use the bus.

I'm only interested in nations that offer residency security to retired expats with programs that I can afford. That leaves out all of SE Asia except the Philippines that I have been to and don't think it's for me. 

 

This is a good example of what I mean by being able to narrow things down based on your own defined criteria added with research. I have very specific criteria that have different priority levels. For example I prefer a place that is very walkable but I can be flexible if there's affordable mass transit and taxis. There is no "perfect" place that has it all with no downsides, except perhaps if you're massively wealthy. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Jingthing

[simon43]

I mention this purely for information purposes, and not as a suggestion to actually live there.

 

Myanmar (Burma) gives PR to any foreigner who lives in the country for a minimum of three years.  There are no financial requirements etc.  (I know all this because I worked in the country and researched the PR rules).

 

I actually love the country and people, but the infrastructure totally sucks.  Crime against foreigners is very low, lack of decent property to rent, lack of decent hospitals, transport, food, power cuts .......

 

It's definitely not a place to consider retiring to, given the poor infrastructure.  But the countryside, views, hills etc are stunning.

[Letseng]

On 2/1/2019 at 3:32 PM, VocalNeal said:

Belize if you are a Brit.

But Belize has a high cost of living.

 

Apart from Belize, you can go almost anywhere if you have enough money. If Tha iland is too expensive, choices will be limited.

 

[madmen]

I lived in Thailand for 10 years but moved back to NZ and will be here till the kids are through school. I am off to Bali in a few months to see if it is a good alternative to Thailand for after the kids finish school.

Depends how long until they finish school. All of Asia is making frequent changes for visa rules.

[jmd8800]

What about Spain and southern EU nations? There could be a lot of real estate on the market after Brexit when the Brits have to move back to the UK.      J/K

[LongTimeLurker]

Viet Nam

[jmd8800]

7 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Viet Nam

Prepare to get married:

 

https://www.justlanded.com/english/Vietnam/Vietnam-Guide/Visas-Permits/Permanent-residence

[madmen]

Why not just live in your home countrys and travel where you want as tourist?

Everything is already set so you get cuddled until you die , no visa drama or worry about currency getting smashed as an expat

[WyrldTraveler]

2 hours ago, madmen said:

Why not just live in your home countrys and travel where you want as tourist?

Everything is already set so you get cuddled until you die , no visa drama or worry about currency getting smashed as an expat

For some it is a question of leaving before one is jailed for political reasons in the home country.  Prisons are known for cuddling their inmates with free housing, healthcare and food while restricting access to information and other locations.  Being a perpetual tourist is expensive (try living in hotels for a year!) 

 

Odds are that you are not a white South African.  Tourists cannot enroll their children in local schools in most countries, with a possible exception being California.

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, madmen said:

Why not just live in your home countrys and travel where you want as tourist?

Everything is already set so you get cuddled until you die , no visa drama or worry about currency getting smashed as an expat

Let's get real, OK?

The majority of retirees moving abroad from the west are looking for a better quality of life in a lower cost nation, usually with better weather. It's basically geographical arbitrage. In many cases it means being able to retire AT ALL. For others they could live well enough at home, but they can live better abroad.  Thailand still qualifies as a relatively lower cost destination for that, but unlike many other nations with formal programs, it's become clear that we may be into them, but the immigration authorities here are just not that into us. Less and less and less. People looking at Thailand should take heed especially considering Thailand has never offered residence security for foreign retirees and clearly never will. Cheers!

Edited February 4, 2019 by Jingthing

[Psimbo]

The UK (only if you are a Sub-Saharan African or Middle Eastern man of military age though)

[KittenKong]

On 2/2/2019 at 11:52 PM, Jingthing said:

I'm only interested in nations that offer residency security to retired expats with programs that I can afford. That leaves out all of SE Asia except the Philippines that I have been to and don't think it's for me. 

...... For example I prefer a place that is very walkable but I can be flexible if there's affordable mass transit and taxis.

Portugal? Good food, good wine, good climate, good scenery, clean empty beaches, refined and civilised people, proper supermarkets selling things I want to buy at sensible prices, decent health care, decent public transport in built-up areas and decent trains between those areas. No idea about taxis.

 

I walked a lot in Portugal as the climate really encouraged me to do so. Here it's too hot and sticky.

 

If ever this Brexit nonsense gets settled I would consider moving to Portugal for the rest of my days.

[LucysDad]

40 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Let's get real, OK?

The majority of retirees moving abroad from the west are looking for a better quality of life in a lower cost nation, usually with better weather. It's basically geographical arbitrage. In many cases it means being able to retire AT ALL. For others they could live well enough at home, but they can live better abroad.  Thailand still qualifies as a relatively lower cost destination for that, but unlike many other nations with formal programs, it's become clear that we may be into them, but the immigration authorities here are just not that into us. Less and less and less. People looking at Thailand should take heed especially considering Thailand has never offered residence security for foreign retirees and clearly never will. Cheers!

 

I think you are overly negative on the immigration challenges. I agree they are not user-friendly and we are called aliens for good reason. However, I have lived here for 13 years without undue difficulty. I don’t feel particularly welcome but neither am I paranoid about immigration.

 

I think it harder if you are gay because you lose the married backstop of the Savannakhet Non-Immigrant O Visa.

[bomber]

47 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Portugal? Good food, good wine, good climate, good scenery, clean empty beaches, refined and civilised people, proper supermarkets selling things I want to buy at sensible prices, decent health care, decent public transport in built-up areas and decent trains between those areas. No idea about taxis.

 

I walked a lot in Portugal as the climate really encouraged me to do so. Here it's too hot and sticky.

 

If ever this Brexit nonsense gets settled I would consider moving to Portugal for the rest of my days.

12-18 month and iam there,good people,good cheap food and normally big portions,it seems as if 60% of the coastline has beaches,some great rivers with beaches and campsites,great walking,even sking,great cheap wines,in bars and supermarkets,good beers,trains good,taxis are good value about €7.00 for 4-5 km,houses great value. downside's are fuel is UK price's,cars new and second hand 10% more than UK prices,this is based on todays ex rate,back to €1.35-€1.45 again and its amazing value.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, LucysDad said:

 

I think you are overly negative on the immigration challenges. I agree they are not user-friendly and we are called aliens for good reason. However, I have lived here for 13 years without undue difficulty. I don’t feel particularly welcome but neither am I paranoid about immigration.

 

I think it harder if you are gay because you lose the married backstop of the Savannakhet Non-Immigrant O Visa.

I would much rather be perceived as overly negative than to be seen among the smug expat Stockholm syndrome brigade, cheerleading at each and every increasingly onerous and throw the baby out with the bath water over the top new rule (often with the clarity of muddy mud), mocking and insulting any fellow expat that finds such new rules painful, irrational, or impossible.

 

Frogs in slowly boiling water we are. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Jingthing

[kannot]

On 2/3/2019 at 6:07 AM, simon43 said:

I mention this purely for information purposes, and not as a suggestion to actually live there.

 

Myanmar (Burma) gives PR to any foreigner who lives in the country for a minimum of three years.  There are no financial requirements etc.  (I know all this because I worked in the country and researched the PR rules).

 

I actually love the country and people, but the infrastructure totally sucks.  Crime against foreigners is very low, lack of decent property to rent, lack of decent hospitals, transport, food, power cuts .......

 

It's definitely not a place to consider retiring to, given the poor infrastructure.  But the countryside, views, hills etc are stunning.

perhaps moving close to a border crossing to Thailand might be good  then?