Marriage visa now a better alternative

[Chongalulu]

On 2/4/2019 at 11:12 AM, ubonjoe said:

You will have to have your marriage certificate legalized and then translated to Thai. Then the  translation will have to be certified by the Department of Consular Affairs of the MFA in Bangkok. Then you will need to go to a Amphoe to register your foreign marriage to get a Kor Ror 22 marriage registry that immigration requires to apply for the extension of stay based upon marriage.

Indeed,on my next extension January 2020 I will also switch back to marriage visa having switched from that to retirement based on income letter. The one advantage (as it stands, but who knows going forward?) is that after the extension is confirmed I can use the 400k until 2 months before the next extension. 

Someone suggested that the 40k per month income requirement for marriage doesn’t have to show it coming from abroad but I’m not sure that’s right- can you confirm that ? Reason for asking is that although I bring more than that in I use fx company rather than a bank who’s rates and charges add considerably to the cost over a full year. Fx companies transfers are showing as domestic transfer into my Kasikorn account.

[Peterw42]

38 minutes ago, Caldera said:

While I'm not married and have no plans to get married, I must say that I find the process for an extension based on marriage as per reports here and elsewhere unnecessarily intrusive and - depending on the immigration office - sometimes outright denigrating to the applicant and his wife.

 

For this reason, even if it were an alternative for me (at least on paper), I would have a hard time to submit myself to that nonsense. Photos taken in the bedroom, clothes in the wardrobe being checked, neighbors being questioned about my marriage? Count me out!

 

I think people tend to exaggerate and only pass on negative experiences. I didn't find the visit an intrusion. The visit took all of 5 minutes, a quick photo on the lounge and a check with the condo office for a witness. A quick glance around the condo to verify we were a couple and living together. (easy to verify as wife's make-up and shoes are everywhere, lol) Lots of people live in studio condos so the photo does end up being sitting on the bed as there is no lounge room.

 

If you can appreciate what and why they are checking, people doing bogus marriage to get an extension etc.

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

Same... No financials required and no reporting to Imm every 90 days..

I work 10 week on, 10 week off so suits me perfectly. If I don't have time to get a visa then I just use 30 day exempts for a while until I have a chance to get another Multi Non O

Doesn't that equate to leaving and returning during your 10 weeks off ?

[Khaeng Mak]

On 2/4/2019 at 11:12 AM, ubonjoe said:

You will have to have your marriage certificate legalized and then translated to Thai. Then the  translation will have to be certified by the Department of Consular Affairs of the MFA in Bangkok. Then you will need to go to a Amphoe to register your foreign marriage to get a Kor Ror 22 marriage registry that immigration requires to apply for the extension of stay based upon marriage.

That does not sound easier than a retirement extension.  Can you re-use all these documents each year?

[cornishcarlos]

11 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Doesn't that equate to leaving and returning during your 10 weeks off ?

 

No... I get 90 days entry on a Non O so that covers my 10 weeks off

If I use a 30 visa exempt entry, then I just extend that for 60 days, which again covers my 10 weeks

Edited February 5, 2019 by cornishcarlos

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, Andycoops said:

I have been on marriage extns for 10 years based on income.

I have spent the last 6 weeks getting online banking from my UK account up and running.

Mainly because the card reader they require you to use didn't arrive until just this last weekend. 

I hope the 1st year leniency clause holds up for my next extn in mid December....

Depends how many months of transfers you got in by then.  Maybe 12 required!

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

There is no legal reason you cannot just change the reason on the form, and supply the extra requirements needed.  But, you should prepare for the IOs at some offices to make every effort to create problems to discourage the change.

this was true i nthe past as it was more work for them but with these new rules, attitudes may change...retirement extensions are shaping up to be a headache for IOs.

[Lacessit]

Not a good option for Australians on the age pension. They would drop about 10,000 baht/month on the couples vs single pension. The Thai wife would get nothing, not being an Australian citizen. That's assuming the marriage is reported to Centrelink. If they don't report the marriage, they run the risk of being jailed later for fraud.

[bkk6060]

As much as I dislike the place, I would rather move to Cambodia then be forced to get married due to inability to qualify for a Visa here. 

Moving sounds much more appealing then ruining my life...

[kannot]

4 hours ago, MJCM said:

A Home Visit by Immigration and or talking to the neighbors and asking them if the couple is really living together ???

Too lazy to come and visit  me,said I was  too far away from them, they said  no gas  money, have never been here.

[myshem]

On 2/3/2019 at 6:26 PM, Valentine said:

In Phuket the wife will be interviewed by IO, photos of you & her both inside & outside showing house number, update marriage registration from Amphur (cost about 100 Baht), bank statement showing 400k, house paper, ID.

 

Nobody is interviewed if crossing a border every 3 months instead of visiting an immigration office where some people are only paid to make your life miserable.

Get  multi entry, cross a border every 3 months and your life is so simple ! Wondering why it's so difficult to understand for most of you !

 

 

 

[Thomas J]

17 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

That's somewhat the nub of this. Getting your Thai wife into the USA, cant speak for others, is a fairly simple but bureaucratic process.

 

After that, when they are in the US, same rights, freedoms, no restrictions, no requirements as for any other American.

 

If the same were true in Thailand for farang husbands...then we could have a different conversation

I am going to get my Thai fiance a visa to the USA.  I hardly thing the process is simple of straightforward.  I applied and it took 5 months for the first step.  Now have to gather financial records, IRS transcripts, criminal reports from every place lived for more than 6 months, original birth certificates, original marriage licenses and original divorce papers, etc. etc. etc.  The only way to get into the USA easily is if you join one of the caravans from Guatemala and enter illegally through California, Arizona, or Texas.  The U.S. government makes it miserably difficult to come legally and super easy to come and reside illegally. I think I would like to ask The big joke to head the United States Immigration Service.  Perhaps then we would not have $4.5 billion given last year and each and every year to illegals who file fraudulent tax returns listing children not their own and many still living outside the USA for child care tax credits and getting a tax refund despite paying no tax.  Though I think many of the rules here are not sensible, I applaud the Thai government for protecting the country from being over run.  The West should take them as an example. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 hours ago, lust said:

Wait for the influx of Thai marriages and marriage visas and then higher scrutiny/challenges for the people already on marriage visas, lol.

 

I've been married here for some years, but always done a retirement extension because it was easier and supposedly preferred by the Immigration staff.

 

But now with the flurry of changes relating to retirement extensions (the end of the economical BKKB NY ACH transfer method this coming April, requirement to import monthly income every month into Thailand OR keep at least 400K yearround in a Thai bank account, etc), I'm planning to switch to a marriage extension for my next cycle.

 

But who knows...the way BJ is going, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't get around to making more changes / complications / burdens to the marriage extension process.

 

All Immigration has been doing lately is making things more difficult and complicated for law-abiding, legitimate expats, not simpler and easier, despite what they claim.

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Caldera said:

While I'm not married and have no plans to get married, I must say that I find the process for an extension based on marriage as per reports here and elsewhere unnecessarily intrusive and - depending on the immigration office - sometimes outright denigrating to the applicant and his wife.

 

For this reason, even if it were an alternative for me (at least on paper), I would have a hard time to submit myself to that nonsense. Photos taken in the bedroom, clothes in the wardrobe being checked, neighbors being questioned about my marriage? Count me out!

 

Checking the house and the neighbors is at least a legitimate investigative method which could find fraud.  I would have been happy to subject myself to a home-visit (or 2 or 3 of them - pay extra to cover staff-costs to do it - random days or the middle of the night).  The neighbors, condo-security/staff (one came to immigration as our "witness"), nearby restaurant-staff, moto-guys, etc - ALL of them could tell the officials we were together Every Day For Years. 

 

Based on my experience in Jomtien, the marriage being legit or not was a minor consideration, to the extent it was a consideration at all - because pay the agent next door to the office, and all the hassle just magically disappears (including, apparently, the home-visit, unless someone reports otherwise).

 

I have since moved to the boonies, but based on conversations with staff at the local office, they think my income (over 40K/mo) must be a "state-pension," so not even going to try there.  I am making transfers monthly now, vs larger lump-sums, just in case they are useful some day.

 

1 hour ago, wobalt said:

For that reason I use a visa instead of an extension

Exactly.  I refused to pay them off with an agent-bribe, also - went out for a Visa, instead.

It's a bummer having to do border-runs like a backpacker to stay and support your wife, though.

 

I am glad to read reports indicating that staff at some other immigration offices do not behave this way.  If only there were a standardized form with example, and any deviation from that standard by an office / personnel was punished.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, MichaelJohn said:

Is there a procedure to change from Retirement to Marriage or do you just change the reason when your extension is due for renewal?

 

You just use the same extension TM form at your usual annual extension time, but write in "marriage" instead of "retirement" in the section re type of extension.

 

The one thing you cannot do, AFAIK, is change from retirement to marriage or visa versa sometime mid-year thru an extension period.

 

[nahkit]

4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

The "guarantor" isn't a big deal, I just took the immigration to the condo office, I have a friend who literally grabbed a motorbike taxi guy (who knew him) from the corner.

Immigration is really just checking for cohabitation, 2 toothbrushes in the bathroom, mens and womens shoes in the cupboard etc. 

As someone else has mentioned on here, it's down to the way the individual immigration officer interprets the rules. In my case, we took the manger from the project where we had owned a home for over 12 years and the immigration officer rejected him as a witness because "he doesn't live there".

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, displaced American said:

I lived in Thailand 9 years and married a Thai woman, had a marriage visa but was talked into changing to a retirement visa. Got divorced and went back to the states for heart operation then a hip replacement. I want to come back to Thailand and get married again to my former wife. Will I have to jump threw hoops again.

 

It sounds like everything you had before in terms of permissions to stay in Thailand has long since expired...  So you'd be starting from scratch.

 

Could apply for an O-A retirement visa at one of the Thai Embassy/Consulate locations in the U.S. and get almost two years stay out of it. Or, could come here on a tourist visa and then change to a marriage (if you end up getting remarried) or retirement based extension of stay, But the extensions of stay now carry all kinds of new financial requirements in terms of how you handle and/or keep your money in a Thai bank.

 

The O-A has the advantage of allowing you to keep all your funds, or as much as you want, in your U.S. accounts and no requirements to bring or keep any particular amount of funds in a Thai bank... But in future years, beyond the 2 years you get out of an O-A, you would have to go back to the U.S. to apply for a new O-A or switch to the now more intrusive extensions of stay from Thai Immigration.

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

this was true i nthe past as it was more work for them but with these new rules, attitudes may change...retirement extensions are shaping up to be a headache for IOs.

I really can't see how. The 90 day reports are independent of funding requirements. The only change will be checking bank statements one year back from a new extension, instead of three months.

What other problems are there?

[OJAS]

14 minutes ago, nahkit said:

As someone else has mentioned on here, it's down to the way the individual immigration officer interprets the rules. In my case, we took the manger from the project where we had owned a home for over 12 years and the immigration officer rejected him as a witness because "he doesn't live there".

And also the general policy at a particular office. In the case of mine (Rayong), I gather from someone who has been through the marriage extension process there that they require witnesses and undertake home visits in not just the first year but also each subsequent year! It strikes me, therefore, that Rayong Immigration probably stands head and shoulders above each and other immigration office when it comes to the draconian application of marriage extension requirements.

Edited February 5, 2019 by OJAS

[JackThompson]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I really can't see how. The 90 day reports are independent of funding requirements. The only change will be checking bank statements one year back from a new extension, instead of three months.

What other problems are there?

Assuming that is the only time they check - and we do not know if this is the case, currently - If one fell below the limits at some point, have they been on overstay ever since?

 

If you lose/quit your job with a Non-B, your extension ends that day.  We have no idea, yet, if similar logic applies to the new "after application" money-seasoning rules.  We also do not know that one's bank-balances will not need to be checked/verified, at some point during the year of stay.

[Sheryl]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I really can't see how. The 90 day reports are independent of funding requirements. The only change will be checking bank statements one year back from a new extension, instead of three months.

What other problems are there?

It is not yet clear how the new financial rules will be verified but logically will entail either additional visits durinh which IO has to review your bank statement etc OR a much more detailed examination of a full 12 month bank statement at the time of extension.

 

Try it yourself: sit down with a bank book or statement and see how  long it takes you to determine:

 

(1) whether a specific minimum amount of money has been in that account consistently for the past 3 months.

 

versus

 

(2) whether this same sum was in that account consistently for the first 3 and last 2 months of the prior year AND whether a different sum was consistently in that account for the intervening 7 months.

 

It will take you significantly longer. Multiple that additional time by what could be hundreds (even thousands in some locations) of applications.

 

 

[Lacessit]

21 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I've been married here for some years, but always done a retirement extension because it was easier and supposedly preferred by the Immigration staff.

 

But now with the flurry of changes relating to retirement extensions (the end of the economical BKKB NY ACH transfer method this coming April, requirement to import monthly income every month into Thailand OR keep at least 400K yearround in a Thai bank account, etc), I'm planning to switch to a marriage extension for my next cycle.

 

But who knows...the way BJ is going, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't get around to making more changes / complications / burdens to the marriage extension process.

 

All Immigration has been doing lately is making things more difficult and complicated for law-abiding, legitimate expats, not simpler and easier, despite what they claim.

 

 

 

I would suggest waiting until you see what other coconuts shake out of the tree. It depends on the rationale applied by the Thai authorities to the 800/400K requirement.

I'm predicting  Immigration will tighten up on both marriage and income based extensions, possibly requiring more funds on deposit for medical emergencies.

Personally, I'm not affected by the changes in the deposit method. As a self-insurer, my cash on deposit here will always be more than required.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 

I'm predicting  Immigration will tighten up on both marriage and income based extensions, possibly requiring more funds on deposit for medical emergencies.

 

 

Well, they've kind of gone in the opposite direction with the 800K for retirement extensions in terms of having funds available for medical emergencies. By now newly requiring that at least 400K of the 800K must remain in the Thai bank account yearround in order to meet the retirement extension requirement, they've effectively denied people access to half of those 800K, regardless of emergency situations.

 

There's also the long bandied about talk of somehow requiring proof of medical insurance as a separate requirement for extensions... Have to see what becomes of that, if anything. Nothing thus far.

 

 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

While I'm not married and have no plans to get married, I must say that I find the process for an extension based on marriage as per reports here and elsewhere unnecessarily intrusive and - depending on the immigration office - sometimes outright denigrating to the applicant and his wife.

 

For this reason, even if it were an alternative for me (at least on paper), I would have a hard time to submit myself to that nonsense. Photos taken in the bedroom, clothes in the wardrobe being checked, neighbors being questioned about my marriage? Count me out!

 

They do not require a photo taken in the bedroom, at least most don't (though if you live in a 1 room place it may be unavoidable). A Thai-Cambodian couple who were at the time living in my property went through this last year and the only photos were taken entirely outside the house. 1 that they submitted with their application and then 1 taken at the time of the IO visit, with the IO (who was polite and respectful throughout the visit) in the picture with them. I  rather had the feeling this had as much to do with documenting that the IO had come out and done their duty as anything else...or perhaps to support their application for travel reimbursement.

 

Offices do vary and some may insist on going inside but from what I hear it is a rapid look-see not detailed snooping.  And the questioning of neighbors etc is not about any intimate details of your marriage or personal life. Just to verify that you in fact live together.

 

As I understand it, IOs are under pressure to ensure that any marriage extensions they issue are legit and when they sign off on one they are potentially putting themselves on the line should it later turn out not to have been.  They will likely be antsier/more thorough in locations where there is a higher incidence or risk of fraud and where they do not know any of the people involved or for any other reason feel uncertain about  whether it is on the up-and-up. 

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It is not yet clear how the new financial rules will be verified but logically will entail either additional visits durinh which IO has to review your bank statement etc OR a much more detailed examination of a full 12 month bank statement at the time of extension.

 

Try it yourself: sit down with a bank book or statement and see how  long it takes you to determine:

 

(1) whether a specific minimum amount of money has been in that account consistently for the past 3 months.

 

versus

 

(2) whether this same sum was in that account consistently for the first 3 and last 2 months of the prior year AND whether a different sum was consistently in that account for the intervening 7 months.

 

It will take you significantly longer. Multiple that additional time by what could be hundreds (even thousands in some locations) of applications.

 

 

Well, it took me about 40 seconds to verify my balance was only below 400K in the past extension year on one bank book. I was never below that on the other account. Although perhaps I'm a bit more numerate than the average IO.

You may be right, however, because I withdraw in 100K amounts and therefore my account entries are not extensive.

Now here's a thought - retirees could really gum the system up if they have, for example, 200K in each of four separate bank accounts, which still meets the deposit requirements. Do a deposit and withdrawal of 1000 baht every month on those four accounts, and that would really be an IO's worst nightmare.

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's also the long bandied about talk of somehow requiring proof of medical insurance as a separate requirement for extensions... Have to see what becomes of that, if anything. Nothing thus far.

 

 

If that happens, I either go back to visas and border runs, or go somewhere else. I simply can't get medical insurance due to age and pre-existing conditions

[The Stranger]

I renewed my Marriage Visa extension in November. I received a phone call from Hua Hin Immigration three weeks after the application saying Bangkok now wants pictures of our Son alongside us in the usual poses, outside with house number, inside, etc. It was no big deal as he is 13 years old, but definitely a first in three years of renewals.

In Phuket they have been requiring it for at least 4 years now. Every time my daughter come visiting us she must pose for few pics [emoji23]

Sent from my CPH1823 using Tapatalk

[Mister T]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They do not require a photo taken in the bedroom, at least most don't (though if you live in a 1 room place it may be unavoidable). A Thai-Cambodian couple who were at the time living in my property went through this last year and the only photos were taken entirely outside the house

My last 5 renewals on marriage visa in two different provinces required photos on the bed, us pointing at our clothes in the wardrobe and sitting at the dinner table with food in front of us. The photo at the front of the house had to show us + house number + roof and ground level in the same shot.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

25 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If that happens, I either go back to visas and border runs, or go somewhere else. I simply can't get medical insurance due to age and pre-existing conditions

 

If that were to be implemented, depending on how they structured the requirement, that could be a real killer for a lot of people.

 

The worst model has been what they've already done with the O-X 5/10 year retirement visa, where the ONLY way you can meet its medical insurance requirement is by taking out a new policy with only one of THREE different, totally farang-unknown Thai insurers.

 

If you have insurance from your home country, it doesn't qualify, no matter the levels of cover. If you have Thai insurance through a different Thai insurer other than the 3 on the O-X list, it doesn't qualify, no matter the level of cover. And likewise, no ability to show proof of financial resources as an alternative to health insurance coverage.  That's probably one of the reasons the O-X visas have been so little used by anyone.

 

The way the government/Immigration/TAT structured it was entirely STUPID, unless their intention all along was to make it so that literally no one would actually use or want it.  And in that regard, intention or not, they've succeeded.

 

 

[MAZ3]

afaik all card readers are the same, you could have borrowed somes

Apart from HSBC in the UK, as fast as I aware

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