A possible solution to the current immigration requirements.

[wobalt]

The expat is at fault for not planning his life properly. 

The expat cannot plan when the requirements suddenly change


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[Khaeng Mak]

2 minutes ago, wobalt said:

The expat cannot plan when the requirements suddenly change


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With a month's notice and no formal dissemination of information from the authorities.

[ThomasThBKK]

They issue passports and other functions don't they? Actually it is what TI regards as their responsibilities that is important, and they truly wanted them to verify income. Still I accept your point.

Yeah why would the german embassy for example not be able to see how much pension you get paid by the german government, it's as simple database lookup for them.

Would work fine in for everyone who gets state pension, i don't see an issue... Except lazy or incompetent embassies.

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[wgdanson]

9 minutes ago, Khaeng Mak said:

Your conduct is in breach of the rules of this forum:

 

 

OK, sorry. I shall not do it again.

But please Khaeng, do not post anything about the retirement VISA actually being an EXTENSION. It's been done over and over and over again, before you joined.

Edited February 6, 2019 by wgdanson

[zoza]

If you have been to Chon Buri Immigration (jomtien) lately you would of observed the fact for retirement renewal (visa) there is no queue at times 

when four or five Chinese walk in the Farangs are moved back while the agents and Chinese hand packs of Passports and paperwork to the IO who man the desks, all queue numbers are forgotten. my last visit in January

was unbelievable with agents just walking in and everyone has to move while this very important business takes precedence. The agents laugh as they had over their pouches just as the farang retirees look on shame faced....if some one filmed this ,you would think it is not possible after all this talk of crackdown...why doesn't big joke just film this and deal with The IO's who are doing these obviously illegal activities...no it is easier

to make everyone bank 800.000 baht.... and make retirees keep 400.000 and not touch it all year......does any one believe this nonsense....to me this is a crackdown

on people who try to do things the correct way.

if it is still the same on my next renewal I might just take a long holiday from Thailand and its corrupt ways.   

Edited February 6, 2019 by zoza

[JLCrab]

21 hours ago, New beginnings said:

 

With this in mind may I proffer the following solution which may benefit all parties to the current debate and would welcome members comments.

Why  not just go to the IMM HQ still on Suan Phlu and look for this:

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Expats mostly and embassies created this.

Expats?  How?  Unsubstantiated talk about faking letter-info? 

I do think the 4 embassies share the blame for their citizens' misfortune.

 

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

So many negative comments??

We are being shafted with little to no notice on continuous changes to policy.  I do not only refer to the embassy-letter and extended-seasoning, but the other "unpublished" changes some of us have had to deal with.

 

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

If you were swearing to the 65,000 before what is the difference? Now, you just need to ship it here it is a click of a button.

Some needed part of that money to be spent/invested "back there" - so are now looking for how to ship it back. 

 

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

The 800,000 is the same just leave it in longer and withdraw half.

If you didn't need it to spend - sure.  The rules were different before, there is no way those invited to retire here under previous rules could have possibly anticipated this change, and it was announced with 28-days notice - of which most applicants still likely have no idea.   How many expats check daily to see if immigration has reneged on the deal they offered - in place when they moved here?

 

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

They really are not huge changes in my book for one that has gone by the rules, is an adult and can adapt to life's changes.

Meaning, you have plenty more money than Thailand said you needed to have, in liquid assets, which you can cash-in quickly.

 

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

But I guess if a person lied about their income or got an agent to lie for them then....

Mommies can not help a person change any of it. Grow up, adapt, and accept reality.

What we need to accept, is the fact we are dealing with an agency demonstrating that can not be trusted to act in good faith, and has no respect for us or any Thais who rely on us / our spending to survive.

 

1 hour ago, Rugon said:

How many retirees attend their local community meetings?

Most of them wouldn't understand a word being said. 

Many contribute to the Boonrawd fund and poor farmers fund. lol 

Their foreign-sourced spending directly-funds the jobs whose paychecks fund the modernization of many family farms as well as support for elders.   Money doesn't care if the person who spent it speaks fluent Thai (or Lao). 

 

I leave community meetings to the locals - never interfere in their business / management of their community.  Spending money into it and helping build up enterprises along "self-sustainability" model, is a better role for a foreigner, imo.  I do go to the Wat regularly, though, so that the younger generation sees that even "the farang" respects their culture and traditions.  I don't want to be a "bad example" farang, leading children astray, after all.

[KhunFred]

There is only one flaw in your suggestion.  It makes SENSE.????

[vogie]

I have just returned from Jomptien IO after collecting my new passport, they moved the old visas etc. Whilst I was there I had a word with the visa shop there and asked about the price for assistance in visa extension renewal. They quoted 20,000 baht if you have a Bangkok Bank Acc, and 25,000 baht for my Kasikorn Acc and I should imagine any other Bank Acc, make of that as you will.

[john ianson]

3 hours ago, fforest1 said:

Sense no embassy can 100% guarantee income no embassy letters should be accepted.....Sense ALL embassy letters are accepted except form 4 countries this means Thai immigration does not really give a rats-ass what any ones income is...

Are all the embassies still issuing income letters actually VERIFYING income or just going through the motions like the 4 embassies who refused to supply the letters ? It is quite a lot of investigation to really verify income ! Especially share dividends and other forms of investment .

 

[JLCrab]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

I do think the 4 embassies share the blame for their citizens' misfortune.

The right to offer its citizens notarial services is a right granted under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations (1963). Thailand was dictating to the US the basis on which US had to conduct its notary services for Thailand to accept a sworn affidavit and US told them to stuff it.

[fforest1]

53 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

Its a game and TI have the "Joker" Anyway and with the little I have of information I'm afraid the immediate future implies the opposite because even if pensioners here receive state pension etc., it will be very time-consuming for consular employees at embassies to dig deep for meeting the demands from Thai Immigration which I believe will only increase and the income letter will be only "the icing on the cake"  I will not be surprized if it will include legalization/verification from the foreigners Foreign department, then embassy and then again Mfa here in Thailand. I believe Thai immigration are informed about the limits and capacity Embassies have to priority the tasks over time and at the end of day several countries will stop verifying income and only choice will be 800k in a Thai bank.

If this rapid fire goal post tightening does not stop Thai Immigration will not have to worry about verifying much of any thing do to lack of  customers needing their services...

[jacko45k]

8 minutes ago, john ianson said:

Are all the embassies still issuing income letters actually VERIFYING income or just going through the motions like the 4 embassies who refused to supply the letters ? It is quite a lot of investigation to really verify income ! Especially share dividends and other forms of investment .

 

Conflicting posts. Have seen some say their Embassy has the ability to verify the income, another claimed theirs also did something similar to a Stat Dec or affidavit.

[john ianson]

Yes I realise it would be easy for an embassy to verify a Gov't pension of that country but not ALL expats are on a Gov't  pension and so to verify an expat not on a Gov't pension would take some effort ! 

[wobalt]

Are all the embassies still issuing income letters actually VERIFYING income or just going through the motions like the 4 embassies who refused to supply the letters ? It is quite a lot of investigation to really verify income ! Especially share dividends and other forms of investment .
 

In many countries they can get information from the insurance companies


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[wobalt]

Yes I realise it would be easy for an embassy to verify a Gov't pension of that country but not ALL expats are on a Gov't  pension and so to verify an expat not on a Gov't pension would take some effort ! 

But they can show docs to the embassy what other income their have i.e approval of a company pension or investments


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[Felt 35]

9 hours ago, wobalt said:

If expats have to leave, who is to blame, TI or the embassies

Blame ....I heard something about a wall and only A......ca ???? Historical and unfortunately extreme political visions propagate down in a hierarchy, and that is part of what we see in Thailand and for that matter several European countries

 

[rott]

9 hours ago, wgdanson said:

OK, sorry. I shall not do it again.

But please Khaeng, do not post anything about the retirement VISA actually being an EXTENSION. It's been done over and over and over again, before you joined.

So why do you insist on calling it a visa when it is only an extension. Ok for you to say the wrong thing but not Ok for others to say the correct thing??

[moe666]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Very good suggestions. The current holders of retirement visas, or marriage visas, should be grandfathered in, on some level. Especially those with marriage visas, who have shown that they are committed to remaining here, and support local Thais in the process. What immigration is doing is terribly disrespectful to the ex-pat community, feels like a process of demonization, and reeks of xenophobia. It is beyond ugly. It leaves a sour, bitter, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the end result is that they are going to be chasing away alot of good men due to hubris, ignorance, arrogance, an astonishing level of fear of the outside world, and indifference. 

Grandfather in all the folks who cannot make the proper amount of money to stay here and let them continue to scam the system. I follow the rules have the necessary money to abide by the new rules which really are not that hard to follow. Send money to a Thai bank monthly what is so <deleted> hard about that, O forgot we need to cut the scofflaws some slack so they can continue to cheat. If you cannot afford to stay here now you could not afford it before

 

[lamyai3]

13 hours ago, wgdanson said:

And other posters suggest, probably correctly, that Thai Imm Officers would not be able to decipher a Bank statement in English.

So how the f*** would they read and understand some of the sh**e written here.   LOL

Easy to run rings around them with obfuscation and double entendre. 

[farangx]

12 hours ago, Khaeng Mak said:

With a month's notice and no formal dissemination of information from the authorities.

A month's notice is more than enough.  Unless you borrow 800K from a loan shark and cannot afford an extra 3 months of interests or using an agent to cook your extension.

 

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, farangx said:

A month's notice is more than enough.  Unless you borrow 800K from a loan shark and cannot afford an extra 3 months of interests or using an agent to cook your extension.

 

If using an agent, all seasoning goes away.  But these changes will help ensure no competition with immigration's agent partners.  Maybe agents will cost more, if there are periodic "money still there" updates added to the process, which the agent will handle, for an additional fee (split with the IOs). 

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, moe666 said:

Grandfather in all the folks who cannot make the proper amount of money to stay here and let them continue to scam the system.

If immigration were actually checking seasoning, or the applicant has the required gross-income, how are they scamming anything?  

 

12 hours ago, moe666 said:

If you cannot afford to stay here now you could not afford it before

The extended-seasoning and "remit the full income here" requirements are NEW, so many are not be prepared to meet them.  Therefore, your statement is incorrect. 

 

And, of course, by "afford" you mean "afford to meet immigration's hurdles" - which are far beyond what it actually takes to "afford to stay here" in terms of real-world costs - and living well, at that.

[chenierkmer]

You should be careful when trying to speak for other people. You shall NOT talk i.e. for ALL THESE NATIONS THAT STILL DO THE INCOME-LETTER.... We do NOT need what you are suggesting. We are just fine.
 
The ONLY people you can speak to and include is people from AUSTRALIA UK DENMARK AND USA.. NO ONE ELSE.....
 
glegolo

Don’t me negative the guy was just giving his opinion


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[FritsSikkink]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 4:52 PM, New beginnings said:

I appreciate your comments but do not see my post as being confrontational as the proffered solution would not be detrimental to any expat regardless of nationality.

Your solution isn't a solution as it won't stop people being here who shouldn't be here. It is a joke.

Edited February 7, 2019 by FritsSikkink

[Myran]

Excellent idea. Also, everyone should get free ice cream and a coupon for unlimited beer in every Thai bar.

[JLCrab]

On 2/6/2019 at 12:10 PM, spidermike007 said:

due to hubris, ignorance, arrogance, an astonishing level of fear of the outside world, and indifference. 

Wow -- and I'll guess that a good definition of those terms in the context of  formulating immigration policy is that it does not conform as to the way the hoi polloi on ThaiVisa.com thinks such policy should be formulated.

[Tomtomtom69]

On 2/6/2019 at 1:31 PM, zoza said:

If you have been to Chon Buri Immigration (jomtien) lately you would of observed the fact for retirement renewal (visa) there is no queue at times 

when four or five Chinese walk in the Farangs are moved back while the agents and Chinese hand packs of Passports and paperwork to the IO who man the desks, all queue numbers are forgotten. my last visit in January

was unbelievable with agents just walking in and everyone has to move while this very important business takes precedence. The agents laugh as they had over their pouches just as the farang retirees look on shame faced....if some one filmed this ,you would think it is not possible after all this talk of crackdown...why doesn't big joke just film this and deal with The IO's who are doing these obviously illegal activities...no it is easier

to make everyone bank 800.000 baht.... and make retirees keep 400.000 and not touch it all year......does any one believe this nonsense....to me this is a crackdown

on people who try to do things the correct way.

if it is still the same on my next renewal I might just take a long holiday from Thailand and its corrupt ways.   

I've helped my Chinese business partners get re-entry permits and the like from different immigration offices all around the country and not once has a farang, a Burmese person or anyone else ever been "moved back" when this happened. We always had to wait quite a while while they processed their application. Sometimes up to 2.5 hours (like in Mae Sai once).

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, Tomtomtom69 said:

I've helped my Chinese business partners get re-entry permits and the like from different immigration offices all around the country and not once has a farang, a Burmese person or anyone else ever been "moved back" when this happened. We always had to wait quite a while while they processed their application. Sometimes up to 2.5 hours (like in Mae Sai once).

how thick was the red/brown envelope

[Thaidream]

On 2/6/2019 at 1:06 PM, MrPatrickThai said:

The expat is at fault for not planning his life properly. 

Absolute nonsense-  People can plan out their lives and then a sudden and unforeseen emergency occurs such as a medical situation . In my own case- when I moved to Thailand decades ago- I had $50K  in a Thai bank; a fully paid house in Bangkok and full American medical insurance.  A catastrophic illness struck my wife- money in the bank gone;  medical insurance premium raised to over $1,000 per month;  house sold- 90% of monies spent on medical care/  After she succumbed- I went back to work in the USA and worked 12 hours every day-for a long time and made enough to return to Thailand permanently.

 

So-  how much is enough?  I doubt most people have the means to plan out every thing that could come along and be a iife changer.