New retirement extension rules forces expat, 90, to leave Thailand

[wazzupnow]

please stop looking for common sence in thai goverment , u will find none

open a thai officials skull u will find a string inside and a marble. cut the string their ears will fall of. i still could not find out where the marble is for.

[Gecko123]

800K bank balance requirement for foreigners contrasts sharply with the below 50,000K bank balance of 80% of Thais. Only 2% have 500,000 or more; just 1% have 1mm baht or more. Source:

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1037621-bank-of-thailand-reveal-what-thais-keep-in-their-savings-accounts-and-its-not-much/

 

Also, rigid enforcement of the housemaster TM-30 requirement for foreigners reporting and re-reporting residence within 24 hours contrasts sharply with complete non-enforcement of a similar law requiring that the house registry (tabian ban) for Thai citizens be kept up to date. This law is ignored for the Thai populace, but hyper enforced for foreigners. It's critical for the Thai government to know where a foreigner is within 24 hours of arrival, but it's not important to keep track of where Thais reside for decades on end?

 

Seems very hypocritical to me. Is the goal here to exercise control over the expat community for the sake of exercising control, or to exercise sound policing policy for the safety and welfare of everyone?

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Gecko123

[stanleycoin]

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

800K bank balance requirement for foreigners contrasts sharply with the below 50,000K bank balance of 80% of Thais. Only 2% have 500,000 or more; just 1% have 1mm baht or more. Source:

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1037621-bank-of-thailand-reveal-what-thais-keep-in-their-savings-accounts-and-its-not-much/

 

Also, rigid enforcement of the housemaster TM-30 requirement for foreigners reporting and re-reporting residence within 24 hours contrasts sharply with complete non-enforcement of a similar law requiring that the house registry (tabian ban) for Thai citizens be kept up to date. This law is ignored for the Thai populace, but hyper enforced for foreigners. It's critical for the Thai government to know where a foreigner is within 24 hours of arrival, but it's not important to keep track of where Thais reside for decades on end?

 

Seems very hypocritical to me. Is the goal here to exercise control over the expat community for the sake of exercising control, or to exercise sound policing policy for the safety and welfare of everyone?

 

it's all because they love you and the rest of us, so mut. 

 

But real deep down, most are just intensely jealous of us and the wealth that we have.

as they believe we had it easy,   and never worked hard for it all,  in the first place.

But they will never admit it to you. 

 

 

[rascalman]

This policy must be changed, a international crime perpetrated against many decent law abiding people living here in peace is in place. 

I am sick old do not have or will I have $25,000 USD in a Thai bank or any bank. I plead someone fix this now for all of us here. 

Might as well come get me right now why wait? Are you insane? 

[Gecko123]

47 minutes ago, stanleycoin said:

it's all because they love you and the rest of us, so mut. 

 

But real deep down, most are just intensely jealous of us and the wealth that we have. as they believe we had it easy,  and never worked hard for it all, in the first place.

But they will never admit it to you. 

 

I'm not prepared to generalize about Thai people in general, but I do believe that many of the rules - written by men beholden to Thailand's upper crust - are written not so much out of jealousy, but out of fear, specifically fear of being socio-economically displaced by foreigners. If you consider restrictions on labor, land ownership, citizenship, birthright of children of foreign men with Thai women, the tentativeness of visas, and the residency reporting requirements, I think it's safe to say that there are elements of fear and distrust underlying some of this.

 

I also think the gap in cultural understanding between Thai men and foreign men is much wider than it is between Thai women and foreign men, mainly because, in general, there is greater English proficiency among Thai women, and they have had far more interaction with foreigners through employment in hospitality, restaurant, and tourism, and other service industries than Thai men. These immigration laws, which I suspect are largely written by men, often seem to reflect this lack of cultural engagement and understanding of the largely male expat community as well.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Gecko123

[totally thaied up]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You should also think about the UN human rights which Thailand have signed.

You have the right to live in a country with your wife, you have no right to retire anywhere you like.

I believe they won't try to change marriage extensions, as it would cause then far reaching international repercussions.

Which is probably why they made it easier to get retirement extensions in the past.

My wife seems to think Human Rights and Humanitarian reasons are the only reason to date Marriage Extensions have not been touched. I am expecting maybe funding to change sometime in the future, yet with all the tricks that have been pulled lately; anything can be up for grabs.

[Bkkthebest]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:38 AM, webfact said:

Many have said that the new rules are designed to stop the practices of unscrupulous visa agents and the expats who pay them for their services. 

 

But large percentages of expats in recent Thaivisa forum and Facebook surveys have said they are being forced out of Thailand. 

So these large percentage of expats uses unscrupulous agents for their service? 

[totally thaied up]

40 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I'm not prepared to generalize about Thai people in general, but I do believe that many of the rules - written by men beholden to Thailand's upper crust - are written not so much out of jealousy, but out of fear, specifically fear of being socio-economically displaced by foreigners.

When I first met my wife, she had broken up with her Thai partner of seven years, 18 months prior. She was still hurting from this very much. When I started to date her, the boyfriend came back on the scene via Facebook posts, and all her friends said to go back to him as they (none of her jealous girlfriends and the boyfriend) wanted to see her be with me and get ahead. It was a real fear of them being displaced (Face wise) and left behind when I came on the scene. I improved her life markedly and many did not like that.

 

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

800K bank balance requirement for foreigners contrasts sharply with the below 50,000K bank balance of 80% of Thais. Only 2% have 500,000 or more; just 1% have 1mm baht or more. Source:

Hence the reason - money talks

 

33 minutes ago, Bkkthebest said:

So these large percentage of expats uses unscrupulous agents for their service? 

The honest ones have been hurt with the changes and the unscrupulous ones will still use agents but just pay a higher price. 

Edited February 9, 2019 by totally thaied up

[Bkkthebest]

On 2/6/2019 at 11:27 AM, Gecko123 said:

I hear where you're coming from, but given that a substantial percentage of Thais have income less than 30k, and the average social security benefit in the US is $1,360 the 65k cost of admission seems somewhat arbitrary. It should also be kept in mind that this change was announced without warning less than 90 days prior to implementation after remaining the same for decades. This is a fairly significant change and a longer lead in time to make adjustments would have been useful. I don't think this shows much sensitivity to the financial realities many people face.

The immigration already show much sensitivity to foreign stayers, but only to those who can afford it. Those who can't, need to pack up and leave. 

If you don't even have the funds to sustain yourself prior to 90 days or even 30 days of this implementation, then you should leave and go home. This is the sensitivity they are putting up. 

[Olmate]

7 minutes ago, Bkkthebest said:

The immigration already show much sensitivity to foreign stayers, but only to those who can afford it. Those who can't, need to pack up and leave. 

If you don't even have the funds to sustain yourself prior to 90 days or even 30 days of this implementation, then you should leave and go home. This is the sensitivity they are putting up. 

Not sure what you mean, ? sustain yourself is not an issue is it?

[stanleycoin]

51 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I'm not prepared to generalize about Thai people in general, but I do believe that many of the rules - written by men beholden to Thailand's upper crust - are written not so much out of jealousy, but out of fear, specifically fear of being socio-economically displaced by foreigners. If you consider restrictions on labor, land ownership, citizenship, birthright of children of foreign men with Thai women, the tentativeness of visas, and the residency reporting requirements, I think it's safe to say that there are elements of fear and distrust underlying some of this.

 

I also think the gap in cultural understanding between Thai men and foreign men is much wider than it is between Thai women and foreign men, mainly because, in general, there is greater English proficiency among Thai women, and they have had far more interaction with foreigners through employment in hospitality, restaurant, and tourism, and other service industries than Thai men. These immigration laws, which I suspect are largely written by men, often seem to reflect this lack of cultural engagement and understanding of the largely male expat community as well.

ok, we are not on the same page, thats ok.

 

I think Thais' are not afraid of the westerners in anyway, what so ever. that's way old, and out of date, bs from 20 years ago. they don't give a toss for out side Thailand.

 

The real elephant in the room is, They are afraid of there fellow Thai's, it's called face, and they hate in anyway loosing it.   most people buy there position they work in.

( good jobs,  gravy train )

Not all, but most. and once they are in that bought position, the first thing they do, is to exploit all subordinates in anyway they can,  as this is one of the perks of the,  bought job they now have,   also it gets the fear into the juniors that anything they do, that he does not like , will result in there dismissal.  he now has his control. he will now spend his time 

doing as little as possible all day,  with maximum focus on never putting himself in the firing line of real decision making and the real work involved when you do this. TIT.

we all know, his incapable of doing the real job as its a bought position and so was his bachelors degree in burger flipping. 

Right back to the Samsong and coke, cheers.  

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Kasane]

Not sure why Thailand have to support piss poor farangs who loot Thai medical system and bad mouth Thais at every opportunity.

[galt67]

On 2/6/2019 at 2:03 PM, NoBrainer said:

If the Thai Government was really smart, they could just sell 1 year extension of stay, to anyone over 50, for say 30,000 baht per year, with no other qualifications.

 

Slightly more than the agents are charging now, but direct from the government with a receipt, in & out of the immigration office in a few hours.

 

Would raise Billions for the Government, and take care of eliminating the agents at the same time, would also releive a lot of work from immigration officers, freeing them upon for more important tasks.

2

they could just sell 1 year extension of stay, to anyone over 50, for say 30,000 baht per year, with no other qualifications.

 

They do. It's called 'Thai Elite Visa'. A 'prepaid, lump sum' version.

5 years, 500k/BHT

20 years, 1M/BHT

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

When I got married I asked immigration what extension/VISA I should get.

They said, "The one that most closely matches your reason for being here, if you want to be with your wife, marriage extension"

 

You should also think about the UN human rights which Thailand have signed.

You have the right to live in a country with your wife, you have no right to retire anywhere you like.

I believe they won't try to change marriage extensions, as it would cause then far reaching international repercussions.

Which is probably why they made it easier to get retirement extensions in the past.

 

Hey, but what do I know.

 

Couldn't find any UN Human Rights document saying "you can choose to live in Thailand with your wife" because that is controlled under each country's immigration laws/rules.   Sure you have the right to "apply"....but the right to apply does not mean the country must "approve" your application to stay in their country...to stay in that country with your wife.   Two closest UN Human Rights relating to what you said....and Article 13 really applies to one's home country.

 

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

 

Quote

 

Article 13.
 

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

 

Article 16.
 

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

 

 

 

[Olmate]

28 minutes ago, Kasane said:

Not sure why Thailand have to support piss poor farangs who loot Thai medical system and bad mouth Thais at every opportunity.

Why do some farangs bad mouth other farangs ,piss poor idea too!

[Bkkthebest]

On 2/6/2019 at 2:04 PM, spidermike007 said:

The biggest joke has been an unmitigated disaster for Thailand. Everything he touches, turns to crap. He is the polar opposite of a crime fighter or a guy who fights corruption. And he has turned the immigration department into a far more xenophobic entity than it was before. They were already arrogant and surly. Now?

 

Get him out. Remove him now. And Prayuth, get out now too. Neither of you fabulously incompetent men are wanted, needed, liked or helping anyone but the elites, the super rich and those in power. 

 

A note to those in power. You are mistaken. We are not the enemy. Alot of us bring an awful lot to the table here. 

You can always bring your awful lot to another table in another country. No one puts a gun on your head to put your awful lot on a Thai table. 

[Bkkthebest]

On 2/6/2019 at 2:10 PM, mickymouse1 said:

Losers...also whoever wants to live/retire there is loser????lovely Laos..Cambodia Indonesia's 1000s of islands even Malaysia more civilised in their treatment towards foreigners wanting to bring money in.

By all means, pls move to Laos, Cambodia and Malaysia. No one is forcing you to stay in Thailand. Bye!!! 

[Bkkthebest]

On 2/6/2019 at 2:34 PM, Nong Khai Man said:

Moreover, 800000 bath is not that much......O.K I'll send YOU My Bank details so YOU Can transfer it to Me !! After All in your'e OWN Words it's NOT That much.....

If you have to worship a measly amount of 800,000 baht, you should not be in Thailand. Please leave.. You are a potential problem to Thailand. 

[Sticky Wicket]

16 minutes ago, Bkkthebest said:

If you have to worship a measly amount of 800,000 baht, you should not be in Thailand. Please leave.. You are a potential problem to Thailand. 

Know your history and show some respect

[ginjag]

9 minutes ago, Sticky Wicket said:

Know your history and show some respect

This poster who you're answering is baiting for sure, troll posts, attacking people who not have the required income, that is double the income of a well paid teacher here. He either is one of the very wealthy ones in Thailand OR he enjoys baiting the less well off.   Living here on 30k a month, over 20 years,  is far more beneficial to Thailand than a 2 week group of Chinese tourists 

Edited February 10, 2019 by ginjag

[Bkkthebest]

On 2/6/2019 at 3:31 PM, TheMacMan said:

I assume because he is old and has limited money - 

the issue with this for many is that if the FULL amount of cash needs to be in a bank 2 months before and also 3 months after (5 months) and then after that must keep minimum of 400k for the remainder.... (and then full circle need the full 800k in again 2 months before the renewal).............. that means 800k cannot be touched for 5 months of the year, and then you only have 400k accessible to live on for the year???   

So people that bring in a small amount per month are better off and less financially restricted then the GOOD citizens that bring in a lump of money to the Thai banks??  

 

Let me clarify:

e.g.) Visa renewal in March, so need 800 in bank January (2 months before)

Get new visa in March, but cannot take any of the 800 out for another 3 months?

So the money sits there and you cannot spend ANY of it until June.....

when then you can only take out a maximum of 400k, 400k has to STAY in the account!? 

So you can ONLY spend 400k of your 800k between June and Dec?

At the end of December you need to top up the ‘locked in’ 400k that you have to keep there with at least another 400k, so that in January you have the full 800k needed 2 months BEFORE you reapply for your next year visa renewal?

 

So really, unless you transfer in MORE than 800k, you only have the freely available 400k to spend from that account over 12 months, in practice? (33,333 baht per month averaged out)....

And the bank keeps and uses the 400k deposit money that you can’t touch???

 

But 65k transferred in every month comes to 780,000 a year, you can spend all of it, and none of it is ‘locked in’

So it is better NOT to keep money in Thailand but only move in what you need to spend?

 

This hardly makes people feel safe and in fact people with cash in the bank are penalised MORE than those bringing in little at a time, where is the logic in that.

if you are a 90 year old retired man, money might be a bit scarce and anything that locks up 400k for your money for a whole year and 800k of your money for 5 months IS A BIG PROBLEM

THAT is an issue here i think.

It is very simple to understand. Thailand wants seniors who have WAY MORE than 800,000 baht to retire in Thailand. Not those who just barely meet the required amount. 

[Bkkthebest]

On 2/6/2019 at 4:05 PM, SenorProletariat said:

Shameful. Big Joke and his cronies should hang their heads in shame with this one.

 

Poor old chap - and I thought the elderly were highly respected in Thai society?

 

Mustn't apply to foreigners then.

 

SP.

Correction. Elderly with money are respected. 

[Bkkthebest]

On 2/6/2019 at 4:11 PM, Neeranam said:

Come on, over 90s don't post here. It's for young people over 50.

Middle age farts are not young. Below 35 years of age is young. 

[HuskerDo]

7 minutes ago, Bkkthebest said:

Middle age farts are not young. Below 35 years of age is young. 

Spoken by someone younger than 35 for sure. Will you have that same opinion when you are 40 or 50? Will you use a sliding scale for your own benefit?  

[HuskerDo]

12 hours ago, Kasane said:

Not sure why Thailand have to support piss poor farangs who loot Thai medical system and bad mouth Thais at every opportunity.

I agree. Good point and it appears the Thai govt is fixing that issue hopefully.  

[Bkkthebest]

On 2/6/2019 at 5:11 PM, apetryxx said:

Color me stupid but I don’t get any of this. I’m on a marriage visa and heretofore I’ve just shown my income stream which is more than adequate. Now the rules have changed and the embassy no longer provides the income verification letter. So,

I have put 400K in the bank (required for the marriage visa extension). Really stupid because I was earning 7% in the U S and virtually nothing here. 

And here we go! We have owned a nice home here for 14 years filled with artwork and a life’s possessions and my wife who is Thai has a good job earning a very excellent salary but none of that counts. My assets in the US are considerable but again, they don’t care. They could declare me persona-non-grata tomorrow and I would have to leave everything behind including my Thai family who I provide for.

This entire immigrant system makes no sense whatsoever.

Yes yes yes, I get it. The Thai system is less evolved and less developed than your first world country. Then why married someone from a less evolved and less developed country in the first place. You know such shit will happen in the future based on your first world educated mind. 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, HuskerDo said:

Not sure where you are going with that Spidey. Let's twist it to include the farangs that move to Thailand to abuse the women and children.

Clearly you have little experience of Thailand. you have perpetuated an urban myth. Very few farangs abuse children. That sin is reserved for Thai men.

 

The quotation referred to people who look down on people who have less wealth themselves. As you do.

[Bkkthebest]

On 2/6/2019 at 5:59 PM, simon43 said:

It's all about the money....

 

I have a modest income of $1,500 - $2,000 USD per month, which is quite adequate for me to live in Thailand as a single man.

 

For many years, I have undertaken voluntary work, initially as a Thai translator with the Thai tourist police, then running my educational charity in Burma.  I recently returned to Thailand and continue my unpaid charity work.  I can't easily register my 'one-man-band' charity in Thailand, so it's impossible to get a non-immigrant visa and work permit.  In 18 months from now, my Elite visa will expire and my calculations indicate that I cannot save up enough money for either a retirement visa or new Elite visa, although I am spending tens of thousands of my own money in Thailand each month on my educational charity text-books etc.

 

Why can't Thailand recognise not only financial contributions from foreigners, but also social contributions? There must be many retired foreigners who would love to teach as volunteers to 'give back' to Thailand, yet they are not allowed to do so. (Yes, I'm very much aware of my own legal position concerning my volunteer work....).

 

Unless I find a solution, it sounds like I'll be back in Burma in 18 months from now.

 

 

 

 

Thailand has not developed a system to recognise the different aspect and facet of any farangs' contribution to Thailand. Money is very easy to track and account for as it so in numerical format. Remember.. Thailand is still a developing nation and has much to learn. They can't adopt anything more complex than money at the moment. 

[ChipButty]

54 pages, Has he gone yet?