Trump Goes Full Racist

[Timbob]

3 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

It is quite unusual for MPs in this situation to step down and fight by-elections, and not required by Parliamentary rules - you elect the person not the party. 

In practice the fact that they are Remainers is no more relevant than if they were all Chelsea supporters, they could and did vote that way before anyway. It is nothing to do with Denial of Democracy, we elect our representatives to use their own judgement, they are free to vote as they see fit. If you believe that MPs should be controlled by their constituents after they are elected you are looking at a Stalinist type of rule, as in the current LP,  where swearing allegiance to the great Leader is what many party members think should be required.

Total nonsense.

 

Of course it's relevant that they are remainers (as was I). They are calling for a second referendum, aka a 'People's Vote'.... yet deny their constituents a 'People's Vote' via a by-election. They won't because they will lose. This makes them all massive self-serving hypocrites.

 

Also, surveys have shown that only 6% of voters base their vote on the person rather than the party they represent.

 

I voted remain but I will abstain if there is a second referendum.

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, Timbob said:

Total nonsense.

 

Of course it's relevant that they are remainers (as was I). They are calling for a second referendum, aka a 'People's Vote'.... yet deny their constituents a 'People's Vote' via a by-election. They won't because they will lose. This makes them all massive self-serving hypocrites.

 

Also, surveys have shown that only 6% of voters base their vote on the person rather than the party they represent.

 

I voted remain but I will abstain if there is a second referendum.

"I voted remain but I will abstain if there is a second referendum."

Which would be just as stupid as the protest votes that made the brexiteers get 52% earlier.

[Timbob]

34 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"I voted remain but I will abstain if there is a second referendum."

Which would be just as stupid as the protest votes that made the brexiteers get 52% earlier.

I disagree. I will abstain because I'm a democrat and respect the result of the last referendum.  If it's a vote with multiple choices (i.e. May's deal, no-deal, remain) then I will vote remain. But if it's a re-run because the establishment did not like the previous result, then I won't play a part in it.

[dunroaming]

9 hours ago, steve187 said:

they were voted in as conservatives, so they should have a by election. the same for the labour defectors

I think inevitably that will happen.  Either that or a general election.  They are taking an enormous risk doing this without having a "declared" plan for their "new" party.  It seems much too vague to just jump ship but I suspect that others have pledged to do the same once they see the response.  That is also an enormous risk for the eleven because if there is a backlash from the voters in the current groups constituencies then they are likely to back out.

 

The other thing the group needs are more heavyweights on board.  They do have more MPs now than the DUP but I think their numbers need to double at least to stand a chance of surviving. It is no secret that there is massive unrest in both the main parties that goes beyond Brexit but at the moment that is the focus.

 

My gut feeling is that the group will struggle for cohesion and after the end of March will fall apart.  I do feel that the political parties need a real shake up and I would applaud a new middle ground party but I don't somehow think this is going to be it.

[evadgib]

7 hours ago, Jonnapat said:

At long last, a few Tories showing some backbone. Never thought I'd see the day.

Backbone...?

 

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, evadgib said:

...on £77+k p/a til 2022/the next GE????

Peanuts! Surely an intelligent man like you makes more than that! You're not a Brexiter are you? Bless.

[Grouse]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

I think the three of them are splendid!

 

An great example to other MPs

 

They are acting precisely as Edmund Burke stated and putting their honest opinions on what is best before cheap popularity.

 

Well done!

Brexiters are a joyless bunch!

 

Are they in chronic pain? Or is it depression do you think?

 

Never a positive word...

 

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Grouse

[Bluespunk]

14 hours ago, webfact said:

Three UK Conservatives quit party in protest at 'disastrous Brexit'

Funny how, when conservative mps break with their party, they quit the party. 

 

Yet when labour mps do the same, they split the party...

 

 

[dunroaming]

12 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Funny how, when conservative mps break with their party, they quit the party. 

 

Yet when labour mps do the same, they split the party...

 

 

Maybe 8 leaving constitutes a split whereas 3 just means they are leaving.  I suspect more MPs will "leave" but not necessarily to join this group.  We have been in uncharted waters for a long time now so trying to call what happens next is hard to figure

[evadgib]

51 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Brexiters are a joyless bunch!

 

Are they in chronic pain? Or is it depression do you think?

 

Never a positive word...

 

 

I went full Cheshire Cat when I heard this...

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by evadgib

[Bluespunk]

16 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Maybe 8 leaving constitutes a split whereas 3 just means they are leaving.  I suspect more MPs will "leave" but not necessarily to join this group.  We have been in uncharted waters for a long time now so trying to call what happens next is hard to figure

I suspect it’s always a split for the press when Labour is involved 

[sanemax]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

I suspect it’s always a split for the press when Labour is involved 

You need to deal with facts , rather than just stating your suspicions as being facts 

[evadgib]

How's this for Hypocrisy?

 

[dunroaming]

14 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You need to deal with facts , rather than just stating your suspicions as being facts 

If posters on TV dealt only in facts then the threads would all be embarrassingly short and boring.  Opinions are just as important and the lifeblood of debate!

[Justin Side]

10 hours ago, Jonnapat said:

At long last, a few Tories showing some backbone. Never thought I'd see the day.

Every one would agree with that.

We can only hope for more to join.

From all parties.

[Baerboxer]

10 hours ago, evadgib said:

Moves were afoot to de-select prior to their balcony-jump. If they had any integrity they'd step down and fight by elections.

Meanwhile what will this new party call themselves? The Denial of Democracy Party (DoDP)?

Brexodus?

Bremain?

 

I saw Jethro Tull at the latter while based in Germany in the 80's???? 

 

Integrity - you mean like May, Boris the barmy, Gove the turncoat and R-Mogg the rich toff show?

 

Any MP who doesn't do their job i.e. vote in accordance with their beliefs and conscience should resign and fight a by-election; or do their job so people understand what a representative democracy means.

 

Not just the ones you don't happen to agree with.

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, Timbob said:

Total nonsense.

 

Of course it's relevant that they are remainers (as was I). They are calling for a second referendum, aka a 'People's Vote'.... yet deny their constituents a 'People's Vote' via a by-election. They won't because they will lose. This makes them all massive self-serving hypocrites.

 

Also, surveys have shown that only 6% of voters base their vote on the person rather than the party they represent.

 

I voted remain but I will abstain if there is a second referendum.

 

On your logic every MP should resign and give their constituents the right to choose. Hang on, it's called a General Election if they all do it!

 

Source for your 6% Surveys please?

 

No one voted for a no deal Brexit, or May's crap deal. They voted to leave but charged Parliament with sorting the detail, despite May's crude attempt to circumvent it. And how glorious they all look doing it.

[Timbob]

17 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

On your logic every MP should resign and give their constituents the right to choose. Hang on, it's called a General Election if they all do it!

If they resign from their party, then they should resign as an MP and call a by-election. This is not a radical view. It's the right thing to do. If you believe they were voted in based on their individual merits then by your own logic, they have nothing to fear and will be re-elected. You and I know they won't do this because they are political cowards.

 

But I welcome more resignations, particularly from Labour. They can then be replaced by true socialists at the next GE, in which Corbyn will become PM.

   

[Disaantri]

 

10 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Len McCluskey - a man for whom the Germans would have invented the word Gross if they hadn't done so already. 

They have invented the word already!! Big or Great Len McCluskey.

[Basil B]

Looks like she may loosing another, Chris Davis for Brecon and Radfordshire maybe due for a long holiday

 

                              ...at Her Majesties Pleasure.

 

Quote

A Welsh Conservative MP has been charged in connection with allegations over false expenses claims.

Chris Davies, MP for Brecon and Radnorshire, is accused of two offences of making a false instrument and one of providing false or misleading information for allowance claims.

The CPS said he was due to appear before Westminster Magistrates' Court in March.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47320171

 

[bartender100]

They were about to be deselected by conservatives in their constituencies because they went against the wishers of the voters there, who voted leave in the majority.

 

Check out leave.eu website.

 

Jumped before being pushed  

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Integrity - you mean like May, Boris the barmy, Gove the turncoat and R-Mogg the rich toff show?

 

Any MP who doesn't do their job i.e. vote in accordance with their beliefs and conscience should resign and fight a by-election; or do their job so people understand what a representative democracy means.

 

Not just the ones you don't happen to agree with.

re by-elections

 

who/what has the formal power/saying in order to arrange one?

(and for what reasons)

 

 

 

[vogie]

8 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

On your logic every MP should resign and give their constituents the right to choose. Hang on, it's called a General Election if they all do it!

 

Source for your 6% Surveys please?

 

No one voted for a no deal Brexit, or May's crap deal. They voted to leave but charged Parliament with sorting the detail, despite May's crude attempt to circumvent it. And how glorious they all look doing it.

All these MPs that left their parties were all advocates of the 'peoples vote', what are the remainers scared of, let their constituents have a vote.????

[lamyai3]

17 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I never got to see Jethro Tull in Bremen, but I saw them in the Marquee club in 1967 (Possibly the 1960s are a bit of a haze to me). Mick Abrams was still the lead guitarist, very good.

Still got my Marquee membership card from the early 80s, Wardour Street was a great venue. Saw Mick Abrahams somewhere too, forget where. The first Blodwyn Pig album is an underrated classic - better than the first Tull album I think, though JT hit their stride a couple of years later... 

[lamyai3]

15 hours ago, Timbob said:

I voted remain but I will abstain if there is a second referendum.

Courage of your convictions? This is exactly the kind of muddle headed stubbornness that's in the driving seat right now.

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

All these MPs that left their parties were all advocates of the 'peoples vote', what are the remainers scared of, let their constituents have a vote.????

But God forbid, a second referendum ????

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

But God forbid, a second referendum ????

Maybe I'm so good at sarcasm, you think I'm serious.????

[lamyai3]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

Maybe I'm so good at sarcasm, you think I'm serious.????

My bad, should have spotted the emoji ????

[rixalex]

10 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

On your logic every MP should resign and give their constituents the right to choose. Hang on, it's called a General Election if they all do it!

What on earth are you talking about? More convoluted and twisted reasoning in order to support anything pro-EU related?

 

MPs who stood for election under one party banner, under one party manifesto, pledging to do the things that that party is promising its voters, who then, mid-term, leave that particular party, and become members of a new party, have lost their mandate to govern and need to go back to the voters to get confirmation that they still have the support of the people, since their new change of direction.

 

If you believe that that is not the case, and that MPs voted into parliament as members of one party, can subsequently change party without having to go back to the people, you would then be perfectly ok with a bunch of politicians masquerading as liberals and getting voted in as MPs, then the day after the vote, switching to an extreme far-right party, or any other switch from one political movement to another.

 

MPs arguing that people didn't know what they were voting for in the 2016 referendum, and arguing that there therefore needs to be a "people's vote" to check the will of the people, then trying to argue that in the case of their own jobs that they were voted to do, the fact that they have changed from one party to another, does not mean that the people didn't know what they were voting for, and so no need for a "people's vote" when it comes to their own jobs, is hypocrisy and double standards to an eye-watering level. You don't need to be a leaver to appreciate that. Remainers are observing it too, as evidenced in this thread. If you really can't see it, or can only respond with a, "but what about that idiot Boris", or, "what about that toff Mogg", then you really need to take yourself on a long break away from it all.

[Nigel Garvie]

11 hours ago, Timbob said:

If they resign from their party, then they should resign as an MP and call a by-election. This is not a radical view. It's the right thing to do. If you believe they were voted in based on their individual merits then by your own logic, they have nothing to fear and will be re-elected. You and I know they won't do this because they are political cowards.

 

But I welcome more resignations, particularly from Labour. They can then be replaced by true socialists at the next GE, in which Corbyn will become PM.

   

Resigning from any party takes courage, I think that should be blindingly obvious for anyone, whatever their views. A recent headline from the Sad Wank##rs Party said they were cowards, but that's just the sort of BS I would expect from them.  I see Corbyn wanted his fellow traveller Derek Hatton back in the fold, he was stopped when LP members, actually in possession of a brain, pointed out he was a total liability. Maybe that's the kind of "True Socialist" you had in mind. It did cause me to look up the old GBH TV series, wonderful stuff.

11 hours ago, Disaantri said:

 

They have invented the word already!! Big or Great Len McCluskey.

If it looks like a pig, walks like a pig, thinks like a pig, and talks like a pig...........its a pig (Not big...pig). No thanks, we don't need to go back to the 1970s. 

 

I left the LP when B'liar invaded Iraq. Fortunately in Scotland we have a real alternative - the SNP - that is carrying out decent practical left wing policies while the branch office Scottish LP is cosying up to its' Tory Unionist friends.

 

I would like to see the LP win more seats in England, but facing the worst, most disunited Tory party in my lifetime, they can hardly achieve level pegging in the polls. Time for them to stop blaming everybody else for their failure and accept the truth, their leader (The messiah who is incapable of considering he might ever be wrong) is indescribably inadequate. He is also a total turn off to your average voter who you need to win elections. The LP are loosing 10s of 1,000s of members, I wonder why. JC's Brexit duplicity maybe.