Solar power is it worth it

[eisfeld]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

For example?

Makro, Homepro, BigC, Tesco, CP Land are amongst the well known brands. There's tons and tons of factories that you never heard of but do it purely out of investment as they don't have retail customers there who could see it. My local Homepro in Phuket has a 1 Megawatt solar system on their roof. They don't publish the fact nor is it visible if you go there. But easily to be seen via google maps.

 

7 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Where are the photos of your home system?

It's almost as if you're a salesman and not an enthusiast.

Pics or it didn't happen? Fair enough ????

See attached image below. It's from a property I built in Khon Kaen. The grey box houses the Growatt inverter. Also attaching a graph from the 12th which was a really really nice day as you can see on the smooth curve.

 

For the record: I never sold a solar system in my life nor do I have an interest in a company that does but I have dealth with commercial sized installations in another capacity. So I got nothing to pitch or sell here. But I strongly believe that solar is indeed a very good thing for consumers because of the savings and being environmentally friendly. Especially coming from a country which relied way too much on coal power (Germany).

 

7 hours ago, pineapple01 said:

Getting into waffle talk ,Corporations, primary investment, jeez yer cant save much here cause Electrics cheap,not one mention about bird poop cleaning or everyday downsides

 

Uhm I'm trying to bring facts and explain how the numbers work out. I think you are doing the waffle talk? You have to clean these panels 2-4 times a year. Of course depends on how much dust you have in your area. Pretty easy to clean unless you are not able to go on the roof, but then just ask someone who can for 300 baht.

 

 

 

[pineapple01]

Mine needed cleaning much more. Pigeons from Rice Fields and Local Wats n Woodlands. Every week they coated it.

[BritManToo]

Just now, pineapple01 said:

Mine needed cleaning much more. Pigeons from Rice Fields and Local Wats n Woodlands. Every week they coated it.

Me too, every month at least.

No need to clean imaginary panels though.

[Crossy]

@eisfeld thanks for that.

Your 12 * 300W panels have peak output of about 2,750W. What was the energy output for that day (kWh)?

 

Our 8 * 300W panels are peaking at about 1,750W so similar peak output per panel.

 

The 12th was a bit of a lumpy day but we did get 10.35 kWh at the grid. Sadly offset by the 5.35 kWh we got on the 14th ????

 

[eisfeld]

  

1 hour ago, pineapple01 said:

Mine needed cleaning much more. Pigeons from Rice Fields and Local Wats n Woodlands. Every week they coated it.

Yes there are definitely areas where solar can make no sense. Very dusty area, area with tons and tons of rain or if you have a pigeon plague. My system has been running since August last year and actually has only been cleaned once since afaik (unless someone from the family took matters into their own hands). But I've recently seen a factory which due to their business nature has quite a bit of dust and there it's not clear if solar can make economic sense. Always a case by case basis.

 

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

@eisfeld thanks for that. Your 12 * 300W panels peak out put of about 2,750W. What was the energy output for that day (kWh)?

 

Our 8 * 300W panels are peaking at about 1,700W so similar peak output per panel.

The energy output was 20.3 kWh for that day.

 

Now that you mentioned it I was curious why the graph looked so nice for that day but the peak could have been higher. It's a 3.6kW inverter and nearly 4kW in panels. There are days where the system achieves it during peak time. Must have been no clouds but maybe still some air polution. Not sure. Here a graph from another day which had clouds and a bit rain but you can see a much higher peak.

 

[Yellowtail]

Great PR

 

https://cleantechsolar.com/tesco-lotus-cleantech-solar-thailand/

 

[Bandersnatch]

On 5/12/2020 at 1:12 PM, taninthai said:

not for me  I got away from Europe because I don’t like being shut in a house all day in the dark with no fresh air

I have designed the house to have different spaces. My cinema, like most, does not have windows or fresh air. Likewise my bedroom is design to be dark and cool. I have more usable outdoor space than most houses I have seen in Thailand. If you have more, please post the pictures.

 

The north side of the property has 85m2 of covered outdoor space

 

 

The third floor has 80m2 with a 360 view

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

On 5/13/2020 at 7:12 PM, Arjen said:

Do you use a centrifigul blower for that?, they give a very high air output, against reasonable electricity costs. But in my experience they heat the output air easy to 80-90 degrees. We used them to dry metal sheets after processing. First we thought about the need of installing heaters. But heaters where not needed. The output air is close enough to the temp from boiling water. Together with the enormous airflow, everything is dried. 

 

I have not dissembled the Energy Recovery Ventilator, so cannot comment on it's fan. We did test the ERV before piping it is and it did not heat the air. To be honest we do not use it very often. It part of the future proofing of the house. The door to the third floor acts like a chimney drawing hot air up and out of the house. The wind on the third floor always blows due to the venturi effect helping with the efficiency of the chimney.

 

 

[taninthai]

19 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

I have designed the house to have different spaces. My cinema, like most, does not have windows or fresh air. Likewise my bedroom is design to be dark and cool. I have more usable outdoor space than most houses I have seen in Thailand. If you have more, please post the pictures.

 

The north side of the property has 85m2 of covered outdoor space

 

 

The third floor has 80m2 with a 360 view

 

 

Yes indeed the third floor is my favourite part to be honest the rest kinda looks like a prison....lol

if that’s what you like fair enough.

[Bandersnatch]

On 5/13/2020 at 7:21 PM, BritManToo said:

Seems unlikely.

Panels produce 1KWhr/day (or less), so at best you will get 32 units/day.

I currently have a 3 bed house with no aircon and use 30 units/day.

Assuming you use electricity at night, your batteries will lose 2-4 units a day due to inefficiency.

 

I'm wondering how your electricity bills can be zero?

 

I am sorry you do not believe me. I am attaching a recent bill which basically says - as your meter has not moved in the month we think it is broken! 

 

 

Here is a pic of my inverter - showing  11kw being produced.

 

[Bandersnatch]

On 5/13/2020 at 11:17 PM, eisfeld said:

I disagree with the placement of his panels, I think he could get more out of them by not putting any on the north facing side but the rest was very impressive.

 

I explained in detail in my blog why I chose to put solar on all 4 sides of my house. See https://ecohousethailand.com/design-criteria/

 

Dual Axis Tracker systems can increase production by 40%, but such systems are complex and expensive and with falling solar panel prices it is cheaper to just get more panels.

 

Basically I don't need more power, but I need to extend the hours when the solar is producing and so reducing the hours that the house is running off batteries.  Living close to the equator as we do, North facing panels produce power for much of the day, but more crucially, they are producing at the beginning and end of the day. I am getting power at 6am. 

 

Unfortunately I do not have stats to share currently as there is a problem with the external data module that came with the inverter.

[Bandersnatch]

29 minutes ago, taninthai said:

the rest kinda looks like a prison

I was actually going for the fortress look, but at least it will be cool prison and it will keep the zombies out.

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

I am sorry you do not believe me. I am attaching a recent bill which basically says - as your meter has not moved in the month we think it is broken! 

I believe you, Lol at the bill!

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Living close to the equator as we do, North facing panels produce power for much of the day, but more crucially, they are producing at the beginning and end of the day. I am getting power at 6am. 

I've got mine mounted flat.

Seems to work, although some people pooh pooh the idea.

 

[Crossy]

8 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

I was actually going for the fortress look, but at least it will be cool prison and it will keep the zombies out.

 

I did think Fort Knox, is the basement full of bullion? Interesting concept, it doesn't float my boat but we all have different tastes.

 

Our home is discussed at length in another thread, but here's a taster, solar is on the car-port right of frame.

 

[Bandersnatch]

19 minutes ago, Crossy said:

I did think Fort Knox, is the basement full of bullion? Interesting concept, it doesn't float my boat but we all have different tastes.

 

Our home is discussed at length in another thread, but here's a taster, solar is on the car-port right of frame.

Hi Crossy, I know your build. It is without a doubt a very beautiful house. 

 

I set out in my design criteria that I wanted to build an off grid house - designed with solar in mind and super insulated. Compromises have to be made and for me that was the aesthetics. 

 

Being a bit of a prepper, I can confirm that Gold has done well recently.

[BritManToo]

Well all this talk about power has made me spend money on a whole living room UPS.

Looked at Hybrid inverters ..... too expensive for me.

Settled on a Suoer 1KVA Pure sine wave inverter with built in Solar charger and UPS mode 4kbht, and a Globatt INVA 100ah battery (5kbht).

That should give me 4hrs of living room power for the TV, computer, fibre router and NAS.

(60" Tv + computer  = 260w, other parts router/NAS, HDs, speaker = 50w ........ oddly enough the bloody tv draws 50w when it's off Vs 150w when it's on)

 

Cheaper to use GTIs to generate power, drive the living room from a separate UPS and worry about moving solar cells around if/when a longer term blackout happens. 

[eisfeld]

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

I explained in detail in my blog why I chose to put solar on all 4 sides of my house. See https://ecohousethailand.com/design-criteria/

Dual Axis Tracker systems can increase production by 40%, but such systems are complex and expensive and with falling solar panel prices it is cheaper to just get more panels.

 

Basically I don't need more power, but I need to extend the hours when the solar is producing and so reducing the hours that the house is running off batteries.  Living close to the equator as we do, North facing panels produce power for much of the day, but more crucially, they are producing at the beginning and end of the day. I am getting power at 6am. 

 

Unfortunately I do not have stats to share currently as there is a problem with the external data module that came with the inverter.

I didn't see the design-criteria before, a great source of ideas that you have documented there! Thanks for sharing.

 

You are right. If you have batteries and want to increase the total time of PV output instead of maximizing the overall total output then you did the right thing in adding panels to all 4 directions. This probably reduces battery wear and since batteries are the piece that degrades the most and is an expensive component so some good "invisible" monetary gains there albeit hard to quantify.

 

Your situation is very very different from the usual case where consumption is normally higher than PV production and also no batteries involved. But since your house is built with energy efficiency in mind and you have batteries the goalpost is different. I can see you spent a lot of effort and thought on all pieces of the puzzle. Kudos!

 

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I've got mine mounted flat.

Seems to work, although some people pooh pooh the idea.

Nah not pooh pooh. Just suggesting you could improve on it with minimal effort. And be it just for the improved self-cleaning property due to rain washing off the dirt. Maybe that will reduce the amount of times you need to clean it ????

 

  

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

oddly enough the bloody tv draws 50w when it's off)

Ouch! That's 140-150 baht per month just for... existing! Wonder what it's doing with all that energy. Good that you are measuring it. Random idea: put a timed switch on it so it cannot draw power in the middle of the night or hours that you know you wont use it.

[Crossy]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

oddly enough the bloody tv draws 50w when it's off

 

That's scary, what sort of TV is it, CRT, Plasma, LED?

 

Must check ours ????

 

[carlyai]

19 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

That's scary, what sort of TV is it, CRT, Plasma, LED?

 

Must check ours ????

 

That's 200mA to power some LEDs. Seems alot. Or 0.6 A for us which is scary.

[BritManToo]

46 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

That's scary, what sort of TV is it, CRT, Plasma, LED?

 

Must check ours ????

 

LG 60" 4k LED.

Great TV but 30% power consumption when it's off seems a tad high.

On the other hand, 150w when it's on seems beyond reasonable.

The computer running at 100w is less than expected too.

[Yellowtail]

If you have a lot of property does it not make more sense to shade the house and put the solar farm away from the house and at about waist level?

 

 

[BritManToo]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

oddly enough the bloody tv draws 50w when it's off Vs 150w when it's on

MISTAKE!

 

Tv only drawing 7w when off this morning ........ did I misread the meter? or did I leave something else connected?

Senior moment ..............

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

If you have a lot of property does it not make more sense to shade the house and put the solar farm away from the house and at about waist level?

 

Put it just above head height and use it as a sun shade for your seating area.

[BritManToo]

On 2/21/2019 at 7:07 PM, eyecatcher said:

My monthly bill rarely goes over 600bt and those solar panels probably start at 15k bt for one as big as an A4(paper not Audi)

Just bought 3x 330w panels for 9,360bht (3,000bht each + 360bht delivery). That's about a 2m x 1m solar panel.

And a Suoer 1000w grid tie inverter (3,450bht) to connect them to the grid.

 

Will need to buy some 2" x 1" box steel (about 500bhts worth) and weld some frames together over the next week or so. 

They'll save me 30 units a month of electricity per panel, and I'll be one step more prepared for TEOTWAWKI with the ability to generate my own.

 

Outlay 13,000 bht, return 360bht/month = 3 years to recover my money.

That's pretty good IMHO!

[JimShortz]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Just bought 3x 330w panels for 9,360bht (3,000bht each + 360bht delivery). That's about a 2m x 1m solar panel.

And a Suoer 1000w grid tie inverter (3,450bht) to connect them to the grid.

Great minds must think alike (whilst fools rarely differ...). I just had pretty much the same delivered!

3 x https://www.lazada.co.th/products/330w-torque-330-soler-panel-polycrytaline-330-kerry-i764170884-s1489262718.html?

1 x https://www.lazada.co.th/products/suoer-solar-1000va-24v-220v-mppt-grid-tie-inverter-with-meter-24v-220v-1000va-suoer-gti-d1000b-pure-sine-i341606723-s662990981.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.21.fe5e54431rJeKG&search=1 

[Crossy]

On 5/17/2020 at 8:41 AM, BritManToo said:

Tv only drawing 7w when off this morning

 

It's still nothing to be sneezed at, we have LED lights that use less and do something useful with it.

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, JimShortz said:

Great minds must think alike (whilst fools rarely differ...). I just had pretty much the same delivered!

3 x https://www.lazada.co.th/products/330w-torque-330-soler-panel-polycrytaline-330-kerry-i764170884-s1489262718.html?

1 x https://www.lazada.co.th/products/suoer-solar-1000va-24v-220v-mppt-grid-tie-inverter-with-meter-24v-220v-1000va-suoer-gti-d1000b-pure-sine-i341606723-s662990981.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.21.fe5e54431rJeKG&search=1 

I've already had the Suoer D600B with two 330w panels attached.

It's been going over 6 months now, one of the cooling fans buzzes when it starts up, but other than that no problems.

[moe666]

It always boils down to how long is the pay  out. 10 years, 20 years 25years will you still be alive. Same for elect cars. Solar homes also a waste, to hot in the summer too cold in the winter, just too hot in thailand.

I worked for a National Lab in New Mexico, USA the company would not pay to install that stuff just too much trouble. 

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, moe666 said:

It always boils down to how long is the pay  out. 10 years, 20 years 25years will you still be alive.

 

At current power costs our small DIY system will be in profit after 3 years ????