Is offering tea money a crime?

[scorecard]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:23 AM, Percy P said:

Correct

Correct, and comparisons to giving the traffic cop 100Baht etc., etc., etc., are not the point.

 

And yes there's plenty of evidence of politicians and senior people giving / accepting bribes / very big bribes.

 

Doesn't change anything, bribing anybody is illegal.

 

[dotpoom]

So...let me see...the OP is asking ...if one does not have the 800,000 Bt. to cover their yearly extention ..would it be ok to offer the Immigration Officer the price of a cup of tea instead...(even if he likes his tea at a 5 * hotel...

Is this for real?

[HLover]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:12 AM, Neeranam said:

Do you know what the penalty is?

A small smile and you are waived onwards.

[smotherb]

On 2/22/2019 at 11:31 AM, overherebc said:

How about,

A gift in return for a future favour. ?????

I prefer the term, "facilitation fee." 

[smotherb]

On 2/22/2019 at 12:41 PM, LoS itaint said:

I have always understood that bribery & prostitution were not unlawful in Thailand


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Well, you have misunderstood. Both bribery and prostitution are illegal in Thailand.

 

However, they are often simply ignored. It is more culturally accepted action than one of illegality. I spent my career as an expat mostly in the Middle East and Southeast Asia. Bribery was almost the norm, and still is very common.  

 

Thailand is not far from bribery, the surrounding countries of Cambodia, Myanmar and Laos (numbers 1, 9 and 11, respectively)  are in the top 20 countries in which bribery is expected or accepted (https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/20-countries-where-bribery-in-business-is-common-practice.html)

 

Of course, only in the more developed countries is bribery beyond the average man; in those countries, it simply takes a lot more money to foment a bribe.

[smotherb]

On 2/22/2019 at 1:06 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

In my own experience and what I heard from other you don't have to offer a bribe. If the recipient is interested in a bribe he/she will tell you.

And if you absolutely want to offer a bribe you could ask something like: xyz takes a long time, can we solve this faster if I pay something - or something similar to that.

The recipient will understand what you are saying but you can always deny this was about a bribe. You just wanted to help.

Yes, I see. Well is there some sort of expediting fee?

 

[atyclb]

ive been led to understand not offering it is a crime.  hmmm

[LukKrueng]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:16 AM, Neeranam said:

There are many times, especially in the land office etc, where things are made very difficult if not offered

I'm no expert and only had transactions done at 2 different offices (6 transactions - 4 buying/selling and 2 mortgaging) + requested information many times at those 2 locations as well as other locations. Never had any problems nor any request for donations

[jgarbo]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:23 AM, Percy P said:

Correct

Much like Express Mail. You pay more to jump the queue. But you get a receipt, so it's legal.

[RJRS1301]

16 hours ago, onera1961 said:

If Thailand get rids of endemic corruption, Thai Baht will appreciate so much that most foreigners will not be able to live here cheaply. In meetings after meetings, it is reported the investors want to put more money in Thailand if they could end endemic corruption. 

OH what a joy ending the endemic corruption would be, I do not think I will live long enough to see that.

In Australia of course it is not done a personal level very much, but through donations to the political parties or their campaign efforts for individuals, ask the real estate developers and the bankers

 

[ChipButty]

Consider it a Donation I can live with a bit corruption 

[RJRS1301]

16 hours ago, dcnx said:

And unfortunately a part of Thai life and Thai culture. It’s how you get things done.

If EVERYONE refused perhaps the practice may come to an end, strength in numbers, all Farang refuse tea money, they cannot lock us all up for refusing.

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, smotherb said:

Well, you have misunderstood. Both bribery and prostitution are illegal in Thailand.

 

However, they are often simply ignored. It is more culturally accepted action than one of illegality. I spent my career as an expat mostly in the Middle East and Southeast Asia. Bribery was almost the norm, and still is very common.  

 

Thailand is not far from bribery, the surrounding countries of Cambodia, Myanmar and Laos (numbers 1, 9 and 11, respectively)  are in the top 20 countries in which bribery is expected or accepted (https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/20-countries-where-bribery-in-business-is-common-practice.html)

 

Of course, only in the more developed countries is bribery beyond the average man; in those countries, it simply takes a lot more money to foment a bribe.

And public servants are better paid in "western"  "democracies" 

[RJRS1301]

5 hours ago, hgma said:

flashed     27 km too fast ......500 bath by post, between Udon Khon Kaen   sharp picture.....payed immidiatly by bank transaction (Krungthai only!!)

27 k over the speed limit, glad they got you.

Remember speed kills, a few hours in A&E as well as a fine should be mandatory to those who breach road rules 

[topt]

2 hours ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

The recent posting of signs at Immigration points stating 'NO TIPS' is directed at the customer. You are not to offer tips to the staff,

 

However, it is OK for the staff to request payment for services shown as 'Free' on the Immigration website. For example the transfer of extensions from a previous passport into a new passport and 'Certificates of Residence' Five hundred baht each seems to be the norm.

Had mine transferred into a new passport a couple of weeks ago - no mention of any charge. Considering how busy the "extension" desk was I was pleasantly surprised. 

Maybe it has changed or perhaps I was just fortunate..............

Last COR was I think 300 baht.

[Thaidream]

The times I have had to pay 'expediting fees' over the past 50 years in and out of Thailand  in almost every facet of living and doing business here could literally fill up this page-  when things start moving very slowly and the entity you are dealing with  keeps asking for added things that have no real bearing on what you are doing- that is the  'hint'  someone wants an added fee.

 

Actually, the Immigration Department  was always the most transparent  I ever dealt with- On only one occasion did they ask for something they thought I could not get- but I fooled them and got it- All my dealings have been with only Chaengwattna or the old Immigration Office at Suan Plu.

 

 

[NoshowJones]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:16 AM, Neeranam said:

Is there anyone here who hasn't paid, "sin nam jai"? 100 baht to the traffic cop. Etc.

There are many times, especially in the land office etc, where things are made very difficult if not offered.

That's true, I can't remember what it was for, but I wanted something from the local government office, my wife went to get it on my behalf while I waited outside.

She was told to come back after lunch and he would tell her his decision. I gave her 1000Bt to give him and help him make up his mind.

I got what I wanted and he got the 1000Bt.

[NoshowJones]

On 2/22/2019 at 11:02 AM, Neeranam said:

I wonder what is more serious.  A policeman asking for tea money, or a person offering tea money.

Has anyone ever been arrested or fined for offering tea money to the police, including immigration?

If that sort of thing happened, we would have read about it here on Thaivisa long before now.

[NoshowJones]

On 2/22/2019 at 11:18 AM, Henryford said:

Surely using an agent is illegal (to bypass the law).

Who says agents are bypassing the law? Have you ever heard of any agents being charged

with doing anything illegal?

[NoshowJones]

On 2/22/2019 at 11:34 AM, FritsSikkink said:

Doesn't make it legal to use a crooked one.

If you mean a crooked agent, the only people who would suffer from a crooked agent is us.

Some are crooked, but IMO, most are not.

[NoshowJones]

On 2/22/2019 at 12:03 PM, Pattaya46 said:

Who cares in this thread how it works in other countries?

Thailand clearly says (and writes) :

APPLICANT MUST SUBMIT THE APPLICATION IN PERSON 

What application would that be? Are there not lots of different applications?

[elliss]

On 2/22/2019 at 10:12 AM, Neeranam said:

Do you know what the penalty is?

 

      Yes ,   the penalty is not having a  extension issued .   555

 

 

[jacko45k]

13 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Who says agents are bypassing the law? Have you ever heard of any agents being charged

with doing anything illegal?

Yes... wasn't one taking passports out of Thailand and getting them stamped out and in illegally, the owners never took their feet off the sofa!

[elliss]

On 2/22/2019 at 11:41 AM, LoS itaint said:

I have always understood that bribery & prostitution were not unlawful in Thailand
 

 

      Unlawful ,  there fore non taxable ,  a perfect set up .

 

 

[tgeezer]

Low level bribery is acceptable. Avoiding the hours long videos in order to get a replacement driving licence, 500 Bt will get fast track. Nothing wrong with that, it is in Thai so they may not have intended to show it to you anyway!


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[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Correct, and comparisons to giving the traffic cop 100Baht etc., etc., etc., are not the point.

 

And yes there's plenty of evidence of politicians and senior people giving / accepting bribes / very big bribes.

 

Doesn't change anything, bribing anybody is illegal.

 

Why bother if anything is illegal or not, as long as no one is being harmed.

[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Why bother if anything is illegal or not, as long as no one is being harmed.

So If I steal your wallet but no violence or harassment it's all OK?

 

So there's no reason to have laws etc. Then later let's hear what you have to say to criticise lawlessness.  

[scorecard]

32 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

Low level bribery is acceptable. Avoiding the hours long videos in order to get a replacement driving licence, 500 Bt will get fast track. Nothing wrong with that, it is in Thai so they may not have intended to show it to you anyway!


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

And there will com a time when you very likely critisize the authorities for the lack of proper driving tests etc., all contributing to accidents and death. 

 

 

[NoshowJones]

50 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes... wasn't one taking passports out of Thailand and getting them stamped out and in illegally, the owners never took their feet off the sofa!

Was he charged and punished? Can you tell us any more about this and not just hearsay?

[JackThompson]

50 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

On 2/22/2019 at 12:03 PM, Pattaya46 said:

APPLICANT MUST SUBMIT THE APPLICATION IN PERSON 

What application would that be? Are there not lots of different applications?

What that boils down to, in most cases, is show up for a few minutes to have your picture taken in the imm-office.

 

59 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Who says agents are bypassing the law? Have you ever heard of any agents being charged

with doing anything illegal?

Yes - but only when running gigs with IOs running unapproved operations outside of the chain of command - extensions for people from non-neighboring poor countries (African and South-Asian, primarily) who work here illegally, etc. 

 

Agents who get extensions for farangs generally operate within the "official chain of corruption" (multi-level-marketing style distribution of spoils) scheme - i.e., the one the "new rules" for retirement were designed to benefit.

 

17 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Why bother if anything is illegal or not, as long as no one is being harmed. 

Because YOU can be harmed, if they decide to make an example out of someone for show.  Best to always avoid this sort of junk if possible - especially since we are not Thai.  At least with agents, you are not a party to any actual bribery which may occur - but even that is something I have so far managed to avoid (knock on wood).