Internet Speed In Thailand

[nikster]

Great post paveet and welcome. Here's the main section I can see issues with:

This brings in the idea of CAT not allowing ISPs to have their own international gateway. This is because it is not feasable. CAT jointly invested with agencies in other countries in laying some of these cables including the APCN which was a joint effort mostly between the ASEAN countries (+ Japan, Taiwan and Korea). It would pose a threat to network stability should everybody (e.g. True) want to have their equipment connected directly to these submarine cables. Plus, the use of these cables for the purpose of peering (internet traffic exchange) is governed by rules written by the agencies that paid the money to lay the cables. The ISPs (such as True) did not pay to lay these cables.

I can't follow the original argument here, either. I know there are private companies who manage to lay cables that they subsequently own. Let's say Cable&Wireless (C&W). These guys can lay cables privately, and apparently manage to pass through all the political issues involved with that.

Let's say a private company wanted to lay a cable from Thailand to Singapore or India - would they be allowed? None of the technical issues raised would apply in such a case...

BTW, paveet, excellent information, thanks for sharing!

Edited March 9, 2007 by nikster

[paveet]

I can see your point made there. The question of whether a foreign company will lay a cable for Thailand (in my opinion) depends on two points: whether it is profitable in the long run to the company and whether the agencies responsible for the countries would allow it. The latter reason will arise from the fact that any region of the sea/ocean which is closer than a certain distance to a country belongs to the country. Take South China Sea for example, that's international water until you're closer than a certain distance to land (I think its 100km).

The first point is a problem for Thailand as I don't think many companies would deem it a profitable location to dedicatedly run any cables into... unless of course they're laying cables for other places very close to the region. There arn't many servers/contents or interesting peering partners here whereas most of the region's (SE Asia) sites are hosted in Singapore.

Edited March 9, 2007 by paveet

[paveet]

Yeah,

I recall when talks were underway about that APCN2 cable thingy, that the authorities deemed it completely over the top, especially considering there were already talks about Thailand's iPSTAR satellite, able to supply whatever Thailand needs....

I do realize that the location is increasing the cost for Thailand, but it didn't seem to be a big hurdle for Singapore and Hong kong???

Singapore and Hong Kong are much smaller islands with much higher GDP per capita and HDI (Human Development Index) than Thailand. It is therefore much easier to make decisions in a country/place of that size. Not only do they have more money, but they also have less problems known to developing countries such as poor water and electrical supply in rural areas, poor healthcare (for the masses) or other issues which are pioritised over internet access. The fundamental problem with Thailand lies in its roots because of the existence of a large number of unskilled labour (in the current workforce) which will take a while to solve (it's all about demographics and getting people the current generation up). These problems are obviously tackled before internet bandwidth.

Talks about the APCN2 cable thingy must have been back in about 2002-2003 as the cable was operational in 2004. I totally disagree with the people considering the option of not getting the cable then whoever they may have been. The way I see it, iPStar was another pet project of the former prime minister giving people false hopes. What are the concequences of iPStar today? People on iPStar are getting a bad signal and corrupted downloads despite the expensive and limited bandwidth. Satellite internet were dropped in favour of DSL in developed countries except for remote areas where copper wires has not reached them yet. There's no way a satellite can be used as a country's main internet gateway.

However, rather than looking back at what has been done wrong, why not look at how things are currently going and are going to go.. the country's aggregate bandwidth is increasing at a faster rate (3gbps increase in Febuary 2007) so at least things are being steered in the correct direction? I live out of the country for several months of the year but I keep my home network consisting of serveral servers. The speed that I've been able to get from them in the past several months have improved by quite a margin - i.e. they're becoming more independant with the time of the day. I am on CAT G.SHDSL 2mbps/2mbps premium pack (known as SDSL in Europe because ETSI standardised it under a different name from the Americans) and host a website with a speed test script (but I will refrain from posting it here since I think it's against the rules.. right?).

Pavee

Edited March 9, 2007 by paveet

[ThaiGoon]

Great post krab K. Pavee. Thanks for the useful info as well.

[Firefoxx]

Sat internet couldn't really compete with ADSL, and is always meant for places where ADSL just isn't feasible (rural or very low pop density areas). It's primarily being used for that purpose today, and that includes in Thailand. Why would anyone buy expensive high latency sat internet of ADSL were available?

I too have been connected to True (then Asianet) since they first offered ADSL. Back then, it was 128k, and metered by the hour. You got good speed, but if you kept your connection up 24/7 then you'd end up paying 20k baht per month. Then there was the localnet fiasco, where cheaper prices for unlimited (and useless) connections were available. If you logged in "internationally", then you still ended up paying 20k baht per month. Only very recently, 2-3 years ago, was the true affordable internet made available. Of course people started signing up in droves, and around this time bittorrent became available and popular. The two things don't mix.

I still think that politics (and CAT, which is certainly political) has to bear a lot (of course not *all*) of the blame for the current situation. Shortsightedness, monopoly, cronyism, pocket lining, you name it, it's been done. I doubt that investing in cable laying would have been possible for any Thai ISP, given CAT and the communications situation as a whole. There *was* a time when Thai ISPs *did* have direct connections to the international providers, but that was with a *hefty* service charge to CAT for doing practically nothing, and during those times the ISPs were suffering but actually providing good service. CAT then built up the IIG, and pretty much strongarmed everyone into using it, just like they strongarmed the use of the local gateway (from the previous provider, NECTEC). It's easy when you have the power of the law behind you.

[Phil Conners]

I think K. Pavee also did say that he believes Thailand will catch up with Singapore and Hong Kong within the next 3 years. But by that time, I guess, bloody eff'ing retarded farang pieces of <deleted> will find something else to moan about.

Thailand may in 3 years be where S'pore and HK is now - but by then they will be lightyears ahead.

Thailand is without doubt improving, but the gap behind the rest of the world becomes larger and larger.

[Prasert]

Paveet wrote several good posts about the internet technology that is used to connect Thailand to the internet.

But that's not where the problem is. It's the people operating and maintaining the technology. Numerous examples can be found on this forum about TOT engineers who are completely unable to correctly troubleshoot a problem (let alone solving it...).

The same goes for the engineers working at the ISPs. Internet and its technology require one thing to start with: English. And the knowledge of this language is sadly lacking looking at the majority of the Thai so called engineers.

Apart from this language-lack there is the attitude towards operating the technology: trial-and-error is the favourite way of many Thai. Also known as try-and-cry (where the Thai engineer does the 'try' and you do the 'cry'). I have seen several times that CSLoxinfo engineers simply started trying out configurations on my routers, disrupting connectivity. After restraining their access, they still could not understand why they should send me proposed configuration changes first and execute them after approval.

It's hard for a Thai to accept that their technology and knowledge is roughly eight years behind compared to the rest of the world (excluding Africa). Not only the internet technology is imported, the same goes for GSM, GPRS and in the future UMTS.

This generation of engineers lack the required knowledge and won't admit it. The new generation is still being educated. And that will have to be the long-term solution for closing the technology and knowledge gap with the rest of the world.

.....which brings us to the visa problems and the english-teaching.....

[sabajja]

The sad thing here, is that the rules and regulations, are to a large degree

tailored to keep foreigners out of the job market.

You obviously need skilled, English speaking people doing this kinda work.

But they aren't allowed to.

Technically perhaps they are, but Thai companys have to up the salarys 300%

For foreigners to be able to get a work permit, compared to hiring a Thai.

Therefore, skilled foreigners aren't hired.

In the end, the Thais have to "do it themselves", no matter how poorly

trained they are.

Everybody suffers.

If you look at some job seeking sites, where Thai companies are looking for skilled labor, you almost always see the:

Thai Nationality only.

They don't want foreigners, to expensive.

Edited March 12, 2007 by sabajja

[Deksan]

I ll quote an email I have received from true after I complained that my connection to my office using VPN jumped from 250mn to 400ms :

Regarding the issue of high latency with IPxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx We would like to
inform you that we checked the issue by tracert your IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx so
we found the information, when it runs around in local, the latency is
normal. But it runs through HOP number 7(IIG of CAT Telecom to Paris), the
latency was increased time. Therefore, the issue might cause imbalance
speed of information between Microsoft Processor and devices or crowded
traffic in Paris, which it is beyond to control the issue. You can check
the details of checking as picture:

This amazed me, I complained to state that there is a problem, they confirm that there is a problem but wont try to do anything about it : It s normal, we are bandwidth limited so there is nothing we can do. Then they try to provide me an explanation that is really sad to see from a technical support (Microsoft processor ???).

The biggest problem I had with thai isp is that :

- First they lack of skill to diagnose problems.

- Second they just happens to see that there is a problem, but they cant do anything about it.

- Three you need to exchange many mails to find out it s all CAT fault (easy to blame ppl you cant contact).

What I d like to see,

- TRANSPARENCY : I d like to be able to know when something is wrong at my ISP by just checking their website. Their dns server is dead, I want to see it reported on a status website. I dont want to find out by myself. If their bandwith usage is at 95% at 19h00. I want to be able to see it, and not hit my head on the floor for 10mn.

- LATENCY : I want to see them prefer latency over bandwidth by not using the link at 150% of its capacity.

- QUOTA FOR BIG DOWNLOADERs : If you reach your maximum capacity you either need to install quota on your users or increase your capacity. If you use all your quota, you have to pay an extra price / mb . This is a natural answer when you cant increase your capacity. Being able to dld xx gb / month from oversea will make ppl change their attitude. PPl will start to find local solution to their downloading needs. They will refrain from downloading stuff they wont use. The ISP will even be able to make more money.

Thks for reading.

[makloey]

Therefore, the issue might cause imbalance
speed of information between Microsoft Processor and devices or crowded
traffic in Paris, 

Hahaha, haven't heard that one before

which it is beyond to control the issue.

heard that before. "Please just wait, there is nothing we can do"

You get to talk to this stupid people if you have an big $$ business line too?

[bernie66]

Some facts I read recently in a BKK post article - I thought I post them here because despite the fact that I am very interested in these things and have been here for almost 2 years, this was all news to me.

- CAT has a monopoly on the International Gateway (IIG) but True now has a license to connect to overseas providers directly.

- CAT charges 24,000 baht for 1Mbit of international bandwidth vs. 15,000 baht that international providers charge

- IIG was out for a total of 230 hours in 2006, vs. the international standard rate of 8 !!!

- Thailand has 10.5 Gbit total bandwidth vs 80Gbit in Singapore and 100 Gbit in Hong Kong

Feeling your connection is slow? Just look at the numbers...

you forgot the firewalls the government has to block certian websites and content. in my opinion this is the culprit. it bottle necks all information in and out.

[paveet]

The government does not use their own firewall to do this. Sites are blocked at ISP levels. ISPs are forced to comply or risk losing the license to operate.

Edited March 13, 2007 by paveet

[paveet]

I ll quote an email I have received from true after I complained that my connection to my office using VPN jumped from 250mn to 400ms :

Regarding the issue of high latency with IPxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx We would like to
inform you that we checked the issue by tracert your IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx so
we found the information, when it runs around in local, the latency is
normal. But it runs through HOP number 7(IIG of CAT Telecom to Paris), the
latency was increased time. Therefore, the issue might cause imbalance
speed of information between Microsoft Processor and devices or crowded
traffic in Paris, which it is beyond to control the issue. You can check
the details of checking as picture:

This amazed me, I complained to state that there is a problem, they confirm that there is a problem but wont try to do anything about it : It s normal, we are bandwidth limited so there is nothing we can do. Then they try to provide me an explanation that is really sad to see from a technical support (Microsoft processor ???).

The biggest problem I had with thai isp is that :

- First they lack of skill to diagnose problems.

- Second they just happens to see that there is a problem, but they cant do anything about it.

- Three you need to exchange many mails to find out it s all CAT fault (easy to blame ppl you cant contact).

What I d like to see,

- TRANSPARENCY : I d like to be able to know when something is wrong at my ISP by just checking their website. Their dns server is dead, I want to see it reported on a status website. I dont want to find out by myself. If their bandwith usage is at 95% at 19h00. I want to be able to see it, and not hit my head on the floor for 10mn.

- LATENCY : I want to see them prefer latency over bandwidth by not using the link at 150% of its capacity.

- QUOTA FOR BIG DOWNLOADERs : If you reach your maximum capacity you either need to install quota on your users or increase your capacity. If you use all your quota, you have to pay an extra price / mb . This is a natural answer when you cant increase your capacity. Being able to dld xx gb / month from oversea will make ppl change their attitude. PPl will start to find local solution to their downloading needs. They will refrain from downloading stuff they wont use. The ISP will even be able to make more money.

Thks for reading.

I agree with your first two points. I too have the latency problem with CAT Hinet (the internet service from CAT) when tracing/pinging in from overseas.

However, I do not agree with your thrid point (quota). This is a step backwards for ISPs, noone does this anymore on dsl/cable apart from the Australians. As a Thai, I know that most people resort to torrenting from local trackers as opposed to the overseas ones due to that fact that torrenting is heavily shaped on international seeds/peers (15kb/s vs 250kb/s). I can see a new torrent tracker or two popping up weekly. This is a good thing in terms of speed.

Pavee

[paveet]

The sad thing here, is that the rules and regulations, are to a large degree

tailored to keep foreigners out of the job market.

You obviously need skilled, English speaking people doing this kinda work.

But they aren't allowed to.

Technically perhaps they are, but Thai companys have to up the salarys 300%

For foreigners to be able to get a work permit, compared to hiring a Thai.

Therefore, skilled foreigners aren't hired.

In the end, the Thais have to "do it themselves", no matter how poorly

trained they are.

Everybody suffers.

If you look at some job seeking sites, where Thai companies are looking for skilled labor, you almost always see the:

Thai Nationality only.

They don't want foreigners, to expensive.

I understand why some companies choose to do this. It is not to segregate out the foreigners because the companies have high levels of nationalism but rather because locally graduated Thai 'technicians' or 'engineers' are paid sub-10k baht per month. Companies, even large corporations like True or Shin Corp, simply cannot fill these positions with foreigners who are more qualified for the current wages as the foreigners would not want the job. Would you want to work as someone picking up the phone on the support line for 7000 baht a month?

The majority of the Thai population do not speak English to a point where it can be used to communicate effectively (as opposed to many other nations in the region such as Malaysia or Singapore... Thailand was never a Western colony). There would be problems for communications in the company if half of the staff in the same position speaks English and the other half speaks Thai. Imagine half the system admins speaking English only and half the system admins speaking Thai only.

However, a foreigner with the know-how can be employed at managerial positions. What the foreigners in these positions need to do is spread the know-how and give proper training to the guys below. Not only that but Thailand seriously needs an education reform. Schools need to have proper nationally-standardised syllabuses. I recall not doing English until I was in Patom 4 (10 or 11 years old?). The technical vocational polytechnics (where most of the techie guys you see come from.. what? You thought they had a BS/BA/BEng?) needs a higher level of standard. This problem has to be corrected bottom up not top down.

So why not reason out and lessen the complaints a lil bit eh ?

Pavee

Edited March 13, 2007 by paveet

[sabajja]

I understand why some companies choose to do this. It is not to segregate out the foreigners because the companies have high levels of nationalism but rather because locally graduated Thai 'technicians' or 'engineers' are paid sub-10k baht per month. Companies, even large corporations like True or Shin Corp, simply cannot fill these positions with foreigners who are more qualified for the current wages as the foreigners would not want the job. Would you want to work as someone picking up the phone on the support line for 7000 baht a month?

Pavee

You are slightly wrong in that assessment.

It's not that foreign technicians wouldn't want the job, cause of the low salary.

It's has to do with the labor department not issuing work permits, unless

the foreigner has a Minimum salary of 40.000 baht a month.

Hence it's illegal to work with a "Thai salary" for foreigners. That's the problem.

I'm certain there are many qualified foreigners, staying in Thailand, that would be glad to do this kinda work, even if the salaries are low.

Living costs here are low, and many would probably jump on the opportunity

if it was ever presented to them.

For many foreigners, salary is not the only measuring stock of happiness.

Just having something to do, is sometimes more important.

Especially if you're an long time expat living in here, (and there are plenty).

Opening up the job market for foreigners, would also benifit the Thais tremendously.

They'd pick up the necessary language, and skills in no time, working side by side

with foreigners.

Edited March 13, 2007 by sabajja

[paveet]

I understand why some companies choose to do this. It is not to segregate out the foreigners because the companies have high levels of nationalism but rather because locally graduated Thai 'technicians' or 'engineers' are paid sub-10k baht per month. Companies, even large corporations like True or Shin Corp, simply cannot fill these positions with foreigners who are more qualified for the current wages as the foreigners would not want the job. Would you want to work as someone picking up the phone on the support line for 7000 baht a month?

Pavee

You are slightly wrong in that assessment.

It's not that foreign technicians wouldn't want the job, cause of the low salary.

It's has to do with the labor department not issuing work permits, unless

the foreigner has a Minimum salary of 40.000 baht a month.

Hence it's illegal to work with a "Thai salary" for foreigners. That's the problem.

I'm certain there are many qualified foreigners, staying in Thailand, that would be glad to do this kinda work, even if the salaries are low.

Living costs here are low, and many would probably jump on the opportunity

if it was ever presented to them.

For many foreigners, salary is not the only measuring stock of happiness.

Just having something to do, is sometimes more important.

Especially if you're an long time expat living in here, (and there are plenty).

Opening up the job market for foreigners, would also benifit the Thais tremendously.

They'd pick up the necessary language, and skills in no time, working side by side

with foreigners.

Hmm.. sorry I didnt realise there was such a regulation limiting the minimum salary to 40000 baht (before work permits are issued).

Edited March 13, 2007 by paveet

[monty]

There is actually no minimum salary as such to allow the issuance of a workpermit.

However, practically the labor department accepts in general a declared salary of 30,000 Baht/month to issue a workpermit.

This workpermit will not allow you to extend your stay in Thailand, 90 day visaruns are still needed (you'd need the 4 Thai employees and 60,000 /month to qualify for that extension)

Anyway, as said before, technical competence of the technical staff would improve the speed you average user experience with a quite big margin...without having to expand expensive international bandwidth.

Plus start with realistic capping of usage, based on the package you have.

i.e. 10Gb/month for a cheap 256/128 home package. (a 256/128 connection is capable of 60Gb/month running at 80% of rated speed).

Double or triple this on the more expensive SME package.

Use the same cap/speed ratio on the faster packages... Thus a 1024/512 home package should be capped at 40gb/month. People needing more should in my opinion not be on a home package! Certainly not in a country where bandwidth is in short supply...

With this system you take a lot of capacity away from people overloading the system with downloads they'll never ever have even an intention of using them, and divide it between the people who use there internet sensible!

To put in perspective, 40gb still allows you to download almost 3 hours of divx video per day. Every day!

[nikster]

I understand why some companies choose to do this. It is not to segregate out the foreigners because the companies have high levels of nationalism but rather because locally graduated Thai 'technicians' or 'engineers' are paid sub-10k baht per month. Companies, even large corporations like True or Shin Corp, simply cannot fill these positions with foreigners who are more qualified for the current wages as the foreigners would not want the job. Would you want to work as someone picking up the phone on the support line for 7000 baht a month?

Pavee

You are slightly wrong in that assessment.

It's not that foreign technicians wouldn't want the job, cause of the low salary.

It's has to do with the labor department not issuing work permits, unless

the foreigner has a Minimum salary of 40.000 baht a month.

Hence it's illegal to work with a "Thai salary" for foreigners. That's the problem.

I'm certain there are many qualified foreigners, staying in Thailand, that would be glad to do this kinda work, even if the salaries are low.

Living costs here are low, and many would probably jump on the opportunity

if it was ever presented to them.

For many foreigners, salary is not the only measuring stock of happiness.

Just having something to do, is sometimes more important.

Especially if you're an long time expat living in here, (and there are plenty).

This is wishful thinking. A member of the active labor force in the west won't work for sub 10K Baht. Simply because even in BKK there are opportunities that pay way, way more. If I can go home, work for a month, then come back and do nothing and make the same money as working here at my sub 10K job in Thailand, I think I know what I would choose.

I work in IT and to me it looks more like there's a global shortage of skill.

As for retired expats needing something to do - yeah, maybe. But I am not sure I would want to hire these guys. Maybe they don't feel like showing up one day since the money is no motivation for them. Can you imagine running a company where all employees are multi-millionaires? It would be a bit difficult...

[SoMeOnEnUlL]

Isn't Unlimited what they use to promote their crappy service?

[Deksan]

There is actually no minimum salary as such to allow the issuance of a workpermit.

However, practically the labor department accepts in general a declared salary of 30,000 Baht/month to issue a workpermit.

This workpermit will not allow you to extend your stay in Thailand, 90 day visaruns are still needed (you'd need the 4 Thai employees and 60,000 /month to qualify for that extension)

Anyway, as said before, technical competence of the technical staff would improve the speed you average user experience with a quite big margin...without having to expand expensive international bandwidth.

Plus start with realistic capping of usage, based on the package you have.

i.e. 10Gb/month for a cheap 256/128 home package. (a 256/128 connection is capable of 60Gb/month running at 80% of rated speed).

Double or triple this on the more expensive SME package.

Use the same cap/speed ratio on the faster packages... Thus a 1024/512 home package should be capped at 40gb/month. People needing more should in my opinion not be on a home package! Certainly not in a country where bandwidth is in short supply...

With this system you take a lot of capacity away from people overloading the system with downloads they'll never ever have even an intention of using them, and divide it between the people who use there internet sensible!

To put in perspective, 40gb still allows you to download almost 3 hours of divx video per day. Every day!

Exactly,

Also this system should be active only for INTERNATIONNAL bandwidth, this is probably the best way to promote local content.

[Prasert]

There is actually no minimum salary as such to allow the issuance of a workpermit.

However, practically the labor department accepts in general a declared salary of 30,000 Baht/month to issue a workpermit.

This workpermit will not allow you to extend your stay in Thailand, 90 day visaruns are still needed (you'd need the 4 Thai employees and 60,000 /month to qualify for that extension)

As long as the company pays the income tax for 30.000 Baht every month they can hire farang. Workpermits and accompanied regulations should not be any problem for big companies like TOT, TRUE, CSLoxinfo etc.

The consideration (regarding the salary) should be:

do I employ 4 Thai nationals with poor knowledge or do I employ 1 farang with expert knowledge who will educate my technicians?

Edited March 13, 2007 by Prasert

[dgoz]

I've spent a fair bit of time in Cambodia lately and am about to spend a lot more time there due to some investments that I have there.

The internet in Phnom Penh is actually better than Pattaya and will get even better in the near future.

Why?

The Khmers are encouraging foreigners and foreign businesses to invest/manage their infrastructure, and they realise it needs to be looked after by intelligent,qualified and experienced people. Therefor infrastructure such as the internet will improve and surpass that of Thailand's very shortly.

As we've seen in most things in Thailand, the Thais no longer think they need Farangs to manage and invest here, they think they can do it all themselves

For those of us who've been here for more than 5 minutes, we know that's just not possible.

Vietnam is also light years ahead of Thailand as far as internet speeds are concerned.

Don't hold your breathe about this situation improving in Thailand anytime soon.

[ThaiGoon]

Dgoz is so full of sh... as usual and as expected.

[paveet]

Vietnam is also light years ahead of Thailand as far as internet speeds are concerned.

Don't hold your breathe about this situation improving in Thailand anytime soon.

Since when was that? Not a few months ago when I spent sometime there. I also have a few friends who live in Vietnam after moving from Thailand who says that's not true. Have you also checked the Ookla statistics for internet speeds for Vietnam ?

[ThaiGoon]

Vietnam is also light years ahead of Thailand as far as internet speeds are concerned.

Don't hold your breathe about this situation improving in Thailand anytime soon.

Since when was that? Not a few months ago when I spent sometime there. I also have a few friends who live in Vietnam after moving from Thailand who says that's not true. Have you also checked the Ookla statistics for internet speeds for Vietnam ?

According to my conservative estimate, 99.999% of what Dgoz spouts is completely BS krab K. Pavee. He is the delusional hater of TV. I'd say even Dick Cheney and George Bush have more credibility than him.

[sabajja]

The consideration (regarding the salary) should be:

do I employ 4 Thai nationals with poor knowledge or do I employ 1 farang with expert knowledge who will educate my technicians?

Exactly.

And the choice is almost always hiring Thais.

Companies here has to think about the bottom line, just like everywhere else.

Remember, the company is forced to pay these high salaries by the labor department.

It's not the choice of the employeer or employee.

I work in IT and to me it looks more like there's a global shortage of skill.

As for retired expats needing something to do - yeah, maybe. But I am not sure I would want to hire these guys. Maybe they don't feel like showing up one day since the money is no motivation for them. Can you imagine running a company where all employees are multi-millionaires? It would be a bit difficult...

Offcourse, you wont attract the highest caliber of people just by opening up the job market. (cause of the low salaries)

But you would give an incentive to the Thai companies, to at least keep the door open, for anyone with the right skill set to get the job,

if they ever wanted it.

As you mention: "I work in IT and to me it looks more like there's a global shortage of skill. "

Then why aggravate the problem with these protective labor laws ?

Thailand is in desperate need to lax these rules, otherwise I don't think

there's going to be an end to "Nothing working".

Edited March 14, 2007 by sabajja

[dgoz]

Vietnam is also light years ahead of Thailand as far as internet speeds are concerned.

Don't hold your breathe about this situation improving in Thailand anytime soon.

Since when was that? Not a few months ago when I spent sometime there. I also have a few friends who live in Vietnam after moving from Thailand who says that's not true. Have you also checked the Ookla statistics for internet speeds for Vietnam ?

I lived in Saigon for a year and Pattaya for 8 months (unfortunately) and Saigon is much faster. No comparison really.

Thaigoon seems to doubt my comparisons of Thailand,Viet Nam and Cambodia but I've spent a lot of time in all 3 countries.

How much time has Thaigoon spent in Viet Nam or Cambodia?

None I would say, but in true Thai style thinks he knows all and just wont listen to an outsider.

Hence the problems Thailand has now and will have in the future.

Why was this topic started?

Ridiculous internet in Thailand. And it is.

Edited March 14, 2007 by dgoz

[alexth]

Now that makes sense. This is what the thailandisation of some farangs leads to

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Vietnam is also light years ahead of Thailand as far as internet speeds are concerned.

Don't hold your breathe about this situation improving in Thailand anytime soon.

Since when was that? Not a few months ago when I spent sometime there. I also have a few friends who live in Vietnam after moving from Thailand who says that's not true. Have you also checked the Ookla statistics for internet speeds for Vietnam ?

I lived in Saigon for a year and Pattaya for 8 months (unfortunately) and Saigon is much faster. No comparison really.

Thaigoon seems to doubt my comparisons of Thailand,Viet Nam and Cambodia but I've spent a lot of time in all 3 countries.

How much time has Thaigoon spent in Viet Nam or Cambodia?

None I would say, but in true Thai style thinks he knows all and just wont listen to an outsider.

Hence the problems Thailand has now and will have in the future.

Why was this topic started?

Ridiculous internet in Thailand. And it is.

It is faster in the big cities of Vietnam. I have a friend in HCMC and he ordered 1000 kbs and was installed in less than a week and getting close to rated speed. Prices are similiar between Thailand and VN. The country is a lot less convenient for foreigners though with lots of regulations on where you can live and what you can install etc. Thailand has made it easy for english speaking consumers. In VN you need a translator and good luck to figure things out.

Outside the cities the penetration of DSL seems lower than Thailands.

[sabajja]

The consideration (regarding the salary) should be:

do I employ 4 Thai nationals with poor knowledge or do I employ 1 farang with expert knowledge who will educate my technicians?

I don't think an "education scheme" would work very well, even if a

foreigner was ever hired this way.

The foreigner has to do the work !, plain and simple, in conjunction with

the Thais, for it ever to work.

It's not only the skills that are needed, it's the attitude as well.

Offcourse, if the foreigner got payed 3 times the salary of the Thai.

That would obviously lower the moral of the Thai workers, doing the same job !

It's simple really, scrap the protective labor laws, or Thailand will

never catch up with the rest of the world.