Can anyone explain the concept of a house book to me?

[revgreen]

My wife (Thai) and I have been living in America for a few years. We are moving back to Thailand in a few months. Until recently my wife's name had been associated with her cousin's house (which she used when applying for US visa). Her cousin has moved and removed her name from the new house. My wife is now panicking because she says not having the house book will cause problems for us when we move back, namely in the way of buying a house / car / etc. I'm really unable to wrap my mind around this. Can anyone please explain? Obviously as a foreigner this was never something I encountered in Thailand. I never had to show anything beyond a visa and work permit.

[ezzra]

Every Thai person residing in Thailand must and should have him/her self associated and registered to a residential domicile hence the house book where all the occupants of that house are registered there so they can be belonged to a district/amphe/city/janwat and that address also appear on their ID cards as without this one will have many issues in arranging and applying for anything government both local and state...

[scorecard]

6 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Every Thai person residing in Thailand must and should have him/her self associated and registered to a residential domicile hence the house book where all the occupants of that house are registered there so they can be belonged to a district/amphe/city/janwat and that address also appear on their ID cards as without this one will have many issues in arranging and applying for anything government both local and state...

I'll add to that with a different explanation. In Thailand for a multitude of things Thai people have to prove 2 things:

 

1. Prove their identity (Thai ID card, in some circumstances a Thai passport might be accepted but the foundation is a Thai ID card and must be up to date).

 

2. Prove their address, which is done through having their name in a tabien baan book (household registration book).

 

My guess is that your wife is concerned about item 2. and not surprising.

 

 

[mahjongguy]

My Thai source says not to worry. Citizens who are not listed in an actual blue book can have themselves added to the public register at the amphur where they chose to reside. 

[swissie]

4 hours ago, mahjongguy said:

My Thai source says not to worry. Citizens who are not listed in an actual blue book can have themselves added to the public register at the amphur where they chose to reside. 

Exactly. Just as "mahjongguy" said above.

 A house book indicates where you live. It' helps when it comes to renew a Thai Drivers licence.
Otherwise it is of no benefit to a Farang when it comes to Immigration/Property/Legal Matters.
Unless you prefer to have a Thai-Drivers Licence, a (yellow)-Farang house book is of absolutely no further relevance to you as a Farang living in Thailand. Upon entering Thailand, make sure you have proper Long-Term Visa. You, as well as your Thai-Wife will not be asked about any "House-Book" upon setting foot on Thai-Soil.
------------------------------------------------
An other aspect: If wife has proper "Land-Papers" no Cousin can "remove" her from any registered land title at the local Land Office because he/she feels like it.
Judging by the "panic-reaction" of your wife, I must assume that she has no verifiable "Land-Title". Surely your wife must have been familiar with this unstable property-situation for a long time.
------------------------
Remedy: Check property rights at the Land-Office. House Book(s) are of minor importance at this point and in your situation. Most Farang-Residents here are not in the possession of a House-Book. They have a valid Long-Term Visa. Completely sufficient.
 
A "house-book" (or the lack thereof), will be the least of problems that OP and wife will encounter.

[scorecard]

8 hours ago, mahjongguy said:

My Thai source says not to worry. Citizens who are not listed in an actual blue book can have themselves added to the public register at the amphur where they chose to reside. 

That's true but keep in mind that 99% of Thai folks are very family oriented and would prefer, where possible to be in the same tabien baan book as other / all family members.

 

And for some transactions it could be quite important for the gov't. office / perhaps a bank or whatever to see there is a family connection in the tabien baan book.

 

Also keep in mind that a very large% of Thai folks are recorded in a Tabien baan book, possibly as last sentence above, but don't actually live at that address / they live permanently at a different address. This is very normal and is not illegal in any way.

 

 

[gamini]

4 hours ago, swissie said:

Exactly. Just as "mahjongguy" said above.

 A house book indicates where you live. It' helps when it comes to renew a Thai Drivers licence.
Otherwise it is of no benefit to a Farang when it comes to Immigration/Property/Legal Matters.
Unless you prefer to have a Thai-Drivers Licence, a (yellow)-Farang house book is of absolutely no further relevance to you as a Farang living in Thailand. Upon entering Thailand, make sure you have proper Long-Term Visa. You, as well as your Thai-Wife will not be asked about any "House-Book" upon setting foot on Thai-Soil.
------------------------------------------------
An other aspect: If wife has proper "Land-Papers" no Cousin can "remove" her from any registered land title at the local Land Office because he/she feels like it.
Judging by the "panic-reaction" of your wife, I must assume that she has no verifiable "Land-Title". Surely your wife must have been familiar with this unstable property-situation for a long time.
------------------------
Remedy: Check property rights at the Land-Office. House Book(s) are of minor importance at this point and in your situation. Most Farang-Residents here are not in the possession of a House-Book. They have a valid Long-Term Visa. Completely sufficient.
 
A "house-book" (or the lack thereof), will be the least of problems that OP and wife will encounter.

I have dozens of friends and I have lived here for a long time. None of them have the yellow house book and I can see absolutely no use for it whatsoever. A Thai driving licence suffices for almost everything,  I even used it to get the Thai fee at a National Park. 

[Pilotman]

2 minutes ago, gamini said:

I have dozens of friends and I have lived here for a long time. None of them have the yellow house book and I can see absolutely no use for it whatsoever. A Thai driving licence suffices for almost everything,  I even used it to get the Thai fee at a National Park. 

One good reason is that for bank accounts, renewing Thai driving licence and buying vehicles/boats/ motorbikes, a house book means you don't have to get a Certificate of Residence from Immigration. It's worth getting one for that reason alone. 

[mahjongguy]

Depends on where you live. Land Transport in Pattaya does not accept the yellow book nor the derived pink ID card.

[StevieAus]

7 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

Depends on where you live. Land Transport in Pattaya does not accept the yellow book nor the derived pink ID card.

Maybe unfortunate for you but here in Chiang Mai Province it helps.

[zhangxifu]

18 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

Depends on where you live. Land Transport in Pattaya does not accept the yellow book nor the derived pink ID card.

For what purpose do you exactly mean does not accept? To renew 5-y permanent licence with name in thai script and alien number? Are you saying nobody living in Banglamung area has that? One must surely show the non imm visa in passport to qualify first though. 

[Pilotman]

24 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

Depends on where you live. Land Transport in Pattaya does not accept the yellow book nor the derived pink ID card.

That is really odd, as they accept the blue book for Thai citizens.  Sounds like a local screw up. 

[LukKrueng]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

99% of Thai folks are very family oriented and would prefer, where possible to be in the same tabien baan book as other / all family members.

 

And for some transactions it could be quite important for the gov't. office / perhaps a bank or whatever to see there is a family connection in the tabien baan book.

both statements above are not true. The reason many Thai people are registered at their family's home address is because they don't own the property they live in, and if they move from place to place it just saves the hassles of changing the registration every time they move. As for government/banks looking at who else is in the same book - no they don't and it has nothing to do with anything. ever since house registration was computerised, a thai person does not have to show the actual book anywhere. simply go into any ampoe office (doesn't have to be where they are registered), show their ID, pay 10 baht, and get an official printed and signed page with the house registration details of only that person, not with any other name that is registered on the same book. This paper is an official copy of the house book and can be used for any official purpose.

[mahjongguy]

1 hour ago, zhangxifu said:

For what purpose do you exactly mean does not accept? To renew 5-y permanent licence with name in thai script and alien number? Are you saying nobody living in Banglamung area has that? One must surely show the non imm visa in passport to qualify first though. 

At the Pattaya Land Transport Office, every foreigner must present a residence cert from Immigration in order to buy/sell a vehicle or obtain/renew a driver's license. No exceptions. Been that way for the 13 years that I've lived here.

 

For that reason I have not bothered to go through the arduous process imposed by City Hall to get a yellow book and pink ID.  

[Odin Norway]

I'm getting really tired of people saying the yellow book is good for nothing. Yea of course if you have your wife holding you're hand all over the place or you can't do f... all on you're own it don't matter to you, does it?. Banks, Amphur office, electric office, land office or any government offices ask for it.  It is for sure a good thing to have when living in a house alone.

[Russell17au]

The OP only talked about his Thai wife not having a "BLUE" house book anymore. There was nothing said about the "YELLOW" house book at all, but it is really great how some people just cannot read or apprehend what has been asked by the OP.

[mahjongguy]

The OP's question was quickly answered, though there continued to be some confusion about the idea of having a blue book versus being listed in someone else's blue book. Then there was some topic drift. Nothin' too unusual about that.

[Dogmatix]

The OP’s wife can easily register to be on a tabien Baan anywhere where the house owner will permit her to be on one.

 

District Offices are obliged to register foreigners in resident in their districts and give them yellow books under the 2008 amendments to the Civil Registration Act. However there is no corresponding law obliging foreigners to register. So it is up to you to decide whether you want one or not. It depends on whether you want to do thinks like buying a vehicle or getting a driver’s or other things for which a yellow book is useful.

[brianthainess]

16 hours ago, Pilotman said:

One good reason is that for bank accounts, renewing Thai driving licence and buying vehicles/boats/ motorbikes, a house book means you don't have to get a Certificate of Residence from Immigration. It's worth getting one for that reason alone. 

Try telling that to Trat transport office,they insisted on Cof R letter even after immigration phoned that office and told them otherwise,thanks to Trat immigration for giving me the letter free and Quickly . it took 4 days to register car i have yellow book and pink id card.????

[SAFETY FIRST]

14 hours ago, Odin Norway said:

I'm getting really tired of people saying the yellow book is good for nothing. Yea of course if you have your wife holding you're hand all over the place or you can't do f... all on you're own it don't matter to you, does it?. Banks, Amphur office, electric office, land office or any government offices ask for it.  It is for sure a good thing to have when living in a house alone.

 

You don't necessarily need a Yellow book for the above - "Banks, Amphur office, electric office, land office or any government offices "

 

All the above can be done with either your passport, Thai Drivers Licence or Blue Book.

[NanLaew]

16 hours ago, mahjongguy said:

Depends on where you live. Land Transport in Pattaya does not accept the yellow book nor the derived pink ID card.

And Udon Thani LTO does.

 

Life's a lottery and not just twice a month either.

[NanLaew]

11 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

You don't necessarily need a Yellow book for the above - "Banks, Amphur office, electric office, land office or any government offices "

 

All the above can be done with either your passport, Thai Drivers Licence or Blue Book.

At the peril of turning this into another 'yellow book is worthless' diatribe, lets just agree that pretty much all the things that need doing at "Banks, Amphur office, electric office, land office or any government offices" can be done WITHOUT a yellow book or pink ID card but some things that need doing at "Banks, Amphur office, electric office, land office or any government offices" can be done quicker and easier WITH a yellow book or pink ID card.

 

Those that have never had a yellow book or pink ID card won't ever know what can be expedited with a yellow book or pink ID card and no amount of saying otherwise will change that.

[Vacuum]

16 hours ago, mahjongguy said:

Depends on where you live. Land Transport in Pattaya does not accept the yellow book nor the derived pink ID card.

Could be a deal they made with Immigration. They'll split the earnings for the residence paper (which should be free, but ain't anymore).

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, Russell17au said:

The OP only talked about his Thai wife not having a "BLUE" house book anymore. There was nothing said about the "YELLOW" house book at all, but it is really great how some people just cannot read or apprehend what has been asked by the OP.

Yes Russell, it's a common trait of the "yellow book and pink ID card is worthless" clique.

 

But by introducing it in this discussion, the OP is now aware of an option that is possibly available to him if/when he relocates to LOS.

 

It's all good here, even the info.

[longball53098]

16 hours ago, Pilotman said:

That is really odd, as they accept the blue book for Thai citizens.  Sounds like a local screw up. 

I think its a deal between Pattaya immigration and Land transport to generate income from making foreigners get the RC.

[NanLaew]

22 hours ago, swissie said:

An other aspect: If wife has proper "Land-Papers" no Cousin can "remove" her from any registered land title at the local Land Office because he/she feels like it.
Judging by the "panic-reaction" of your wife, I must assume that she has no verifiable "Land-Title". Surely your wife must have been familiar with this unstable property-situation for a long time.

Read the OP. His wife's cousin upped sticks and moved to a NEW house. You can't transfer people to a new house book registered against a different land title. More so if they aint even in the country.

[scorecard]

18 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

both statements above are not true. The reason many Thai people are registered at their family's home address is because they don't own the property they live in, and if they move from place to place it just saves the hassles of changing the registration every time they move. As for government/banks looking at who else is in the same book - no they don't and it has nothing to do with anything. ever since house registration was computerised, a thai person does not have to show the actual book anywhere. simply go into any ampoe office (doesn't have to be where they are registered), show their ID, pay 10 baht, and get an official printed and signed page with the house registration details of only that person, not with any other name that is registered on the same book. This paper is an official copy of the house book and can be used for any official purpose.

 Thanks for your version and I well accept many of your points which are just more detailed extensions of what I posted. 

 

Sure some family members will have created their own TB Book, just one example, when they marry and then have kids, they want their own family record.

 

Government not looking at family names. Quite possibly true but other entities might want to see if there are other families members at the same address. Last night I was talking to a friend who is a senior bank manager, he mentioned that his, maybe other, banks when processing a credit card application would prefer to know if other family members are at the same address* in case bank needs to follow up because of no payment. Folow up to try to get a lead as to the location of the person not paying (* but of course there is no guarantee they are actually living at the address in the TB book.)

 

My bank friend also mentioned the police continuously search the TB database trying to find leads to find / arrest criminals etc.

[LukKrueng]

23 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 Thanks for your version and I well accept many of your points which are just more detailed extensions of what I posted. 

 

Sure some family members will have created their own TB Book, just one example, when they marry and then have kids, they want their own family record.

 

Government not looking at family names. Quite possibly true but other entities might want to see if there are other families members at the same address. Last night I was talking to a friend who is a senior bank manager, he mentioned that his, maybe other, banks when processing a credit card application would prefer to know if other family members are at the same address* in case bank needs to follow up because of no payment. Folow up to try to get a lead as to the location of the person not paying (* but of course there is no guarantee they are actually living at the address in the TB book.)

 

My bank friend also mentioned the police continuously search the TB database trying to find leads to find / arrest criminals etc.

and yet again -wrong....

house book is not affiliated with family tree. It is only a personal registration of one's permanent address. When a couple gets married and have children, they not necessarily register in the same address, especially if they don't own the house. Sometimes registration in a specific address gives some benefits such as easier enrollment to specific school. A friend asked me some years ago to allow him to be registered with his child in my book, and to be the house chief in order for the child to be accepted to a school in the area under the quota for local residents. He didn't move his entire family to my book - the 2 of them.

in my case, my wife is registered at her old parents' house, my children in another address, and I'm in a third location.

 

When applying for loans/credit cats the banks might ask for guarantor and that guarantor will have to supply their own house book registration. If anyone who is registered in my house book defaults a loan and I have not signed as a guarantor the banks can't ask me to pay.

 

as for the police searching house registration database when looking for criminals - that makes sense as that is exactly that - the registered address of a person....

[revgreen]

So a little more story.

 

My wife had no concern over being removed until recently. She does not own land or property in Thailand. As someone else said, she's always rented. We are young, she is 26.

 

She has had a falling out with the cousin while here in America. That was the catalyst for the cousin removing her. So is my wife correct? Are we going to have a difficult time when we arrive? Our plan was to rent a house for the first year while deciding where we want to buy. We also intended on buying a car upon arrival, will this be an issue?

 

Sorry but none of these answers make any sense to me. Blue books or yellow books or whatever. I just want to know - will we be able to (entirely on our own) buy a car, rent a house for a short term, and then buy a house. We do not want to involve her family in any of this whatsoever.

Edited March 3, 2019 by revgreen

[revgreen]

On 3/1/2019 at 4:04 PM, ezzra said:

Every Thai person residing in Thailand must and should have him/her self associated and registered to a residential domicile hence the house book where all the occupants of that house are registered there so they can be belonged to a district/amphe/city/janwat and that address also appear on their ID cards as without this one will have many issues in arranging and applying for anything government both local and state...

Okay so how do we fix this? We will buy our own house in a year or so, but in the interim we will be renting.