Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[tutsiwarrior]

the food in Nicaragua is typical of central america, street food 'gallo pinto' which is a mixture of beans and fried rice and maybe some fried cheese served on a banana leaf and in the restaurants some 'tacos al pastor' with a caldo if yer lucky...where I worked in Managua was across from the post office/communications center and I'd get a piece of cornbread and an orange gaseosa for brekkie from the vendor women out front...fried plantain and some tough meat fer lunch served with the ubiquitous gallo pinto...lost about 20lbs when I was there and got down to my high school weight...

 

down south in Bolivia and Chile a parrilla was considered to be haute cuisine, basically some beef gristle and organs grilled at the table, the chilenos had a predilection for avocados 'palta' and you could always get a nice sliced avocado salad dressed simply with oil and vinegar, nice with the local wine...

 

in Cochabamba indigenous women would sell anticucho (grilled marinated beef hearts) sandwiches on fresh bread to drunks in the middle of the night at the bridge to Cala Cala and they were quite nice...and I always liked the empanadas and saltenas (available only on Sunday mornings)

 

 

[Cryingdick]

All of the countries so far sound like a substantial downgrade.

[Jingthing]

All of the countries so far sound like a substantial downgrade.

Thanks for sharing.

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[Jingthing]

Seeing Machu Picchu was always on my bucket list, so I've got a real forwarding ticket to go there in June. This will get me into Colombia and 90 days to work out the retirement logistics and check out different places to visit as both a tourist and possibly live. 
 
Regardless,  I'll have three months to see what the future holds, and,  I might as well go to Peru.  The flight into Lima was 150 usd.  
 
Now, nap time friends.  I'll monitor the discussion but unless I have something to contribute,  I'll just be here. 
 
CJ

I currently agree Colombia sounds most promising but if you are going on down to Peru you might want to consider a visit to Arequipa. Peru's second city is a major touristic draw in itself and it seems to me in the earlier stages of being "discovered" as an expat destination. High up there in the desert it has year round fair weather and very sunny, unlike Lima.

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[brokenbone]

i just checked forums from french caribbean,

Martinique, Guadeloupe was a bit of mixed feelings,

they werent impressed by local friendliness.

 

St. Barthelemy  was all good reviews,

but it would take investigations to find affordable

hotel all year round, or find airB&B that was mentioned

 

it seem english isnt on top of local study list, mostly its french or nothing

Edited March 14, 2019 by brokenbone

[SiamAndy]

On 3/12/2019 at 3:58 PM, CaptainJack said:

As is pretty obvious,  I have been "winging it" once I made the decision to leave Thailand. The entire retire to Mexico program has been, as is all others, a work in progress.   You are right on the age limit to participate in the Mexican National health plans.  I'm not eligible,  and had yet to detail the other options and cost. My fallback was the cheapest policy, if, affordable,  and keep my Medicare advantage program.   I did read about Colombia's medical briefly, and that is also a big draw.  Good point to mention. 

Does anyone know the cutoff age for the Mexican National Health Plan?

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, SiamAndy said:

Does anyone know the cutoff age for the Mexican National Health Plan?

Good question. I'm still not completely certain there is a cutoff.

Looking deeper into this Latin American stuff, there seems to be a good bit of conflicting information and ambiguity. 
For example about the cost of the national program in Colombia. Is it really 12 percent of income? I can't really say for certain. 

I think it might be a matter of going into one of program offices once you live there and finding out for sure!

Edited March 14, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Back to Colombia, as I've said I'm more interested in the coffee region smaller sized (and less costly) cities than the very big cities. Not really interested in Manizales though because it's extremely hilly.

 

Between Armenia and Pereira, Pereira is bigger and has more activities to offer but that doesn't mean it's "better" as such things are quite subjective.

 

Here are a Canadian guy's subjective comparisons --

 

Colombia Big Cities

https://worldcitizenevan.com/2018/11/24/bogota-vs-medellin-vs-cali/

 

Colombia Small cities

https://worldcitizenevan.com/2018/12/14/the-8-best-small-cities-in-colombia/

 

A flavor of central Pereira. I'm sure people will focus on the comment about mobile phone snatching but here it is anyway --

 

 

More on Pereira (and the coffee region) and also consult your google if interested --

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/internationallivingcom/retire-in-colombia_b_10320998.html

 

https://internationalliving.com/countries/colombia/pereira-colombia/

Edited March 14, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Wider views of Pereira. Of course whether these videos look good or bad to you, it's impossible to tell what a place is like (and whether you like it) short of feeling it and smelling it for yourself --

 

Quote

Many expats living in Pereira first moved to Medellín (meh-deh-yeen), but once they discovered the smaller Pereira, they found it to be more livable, with less traffic and pollution than the large and densely populated Medellín. Pereira is also a very walkable city, depending on where you decide to live.

https://youtu.be/DZ8HTinmcaA

 

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Revisiting the topic of how leaving Thailand for another foreign country is far from free.

How much it costs exactly will depend on personal circumstances and luck.

Some of us may be forced to leave Thailand for various reasons, mostly probably new visa rules related. Others can find ways to stay, complying with the more onerous rules or perhaps buying an Elite Card (also not free). Some will have ties to Thailand that they can't quit (such as Thai wives) or condos where they may need to sell at a very poor price in this current visa scared market.

 

I recently heard an account of a current American expat in Colombia estimate that for a single person coming down from the USA (coming just with suitcases) a suggestion to bring down 5,000 to 10,000 USD to cover everything for initial setup transition, getting initially settled probably in a temporary place, getting the visa, getting into an actual long term apartment, furnishing it, etc. 

 

Consider that coming from Thailand there are extra costs. First of all, I'm going to assume that people are going to want to take at least one exploratory trip to target destinations. Coming from Thailand, that's expensive. Some people take months and years to do just that! I suggest doing lots self reflection and research so that you can narrow down the choices that you think are worth the cost of actually travelling to to check out. But even then, you may go to your top choices, and not like any of them enough, but that leaves other choices that you might. Oh well, part of that is luck if your reflection and research pointed you to the right places for you. Then probably back in Thailand (unless you packed it up before any exploratory trip), for those that are unencumbered here, well that's pretty easy, but for those with assets (bank accounts, cars, condos, etc.) not so quick and easy. So I can only guess what extra all that would cost including the exploratory trip and perhaps multiple trips back to Thailand to fully divorce. Your guess is as good as mine but it seems to me that could easily add up to 5,000 to 15,000. Plus in the case you need to take a very poor price on quick sell assets, that real cost though more abstract could be very high. Impossible to guess that, it would be so different if you have a 1 million baht condo vs. a 10 million baht.

 

In the background of all this, assuming you aren't being "forced" out of Thailand, when you consider all these costs to get out and start over, I reckon most people could afford at least a 5 year Elite Card (500k baht) which played right gives you six years in Thailand without visa hassles (unless they change the rules on that which of course wouldn't shock). Also if you own your housing in Thailand already, you've got "free" rent all that time and no need to take a poor price on a sale. 

 

Then there is health insurance. Perhaps some of these Latin American offers are vital for you compared to your health insurance possibilities and costs in Thailand. That's another financial factor.

 

Bottom line, and I'm not pretending that these rough numbers I've come up with are to be taken literally, it seems clear to me that moving to Latin America from Thailand is a much better financial proposal with no or little asset ties to Thailand. Because like that you could be closer to the 5,000 to 10,000 estimate coming from the USA, adding just an exploratory trip and perhaps another final trip from Thailand.

 

If on the other hand you have these expensive complicating factors, then I think that means that your POSITIVE ATTRACTION to the new destination needs to be quite strong. Beyond only running away because the visa situation here sucks big time. For examples, if you feel that you feel in a rut in Thailand, just are sick and tired of the seemingly and possibly dangerous to your well being hostile official attitude here towards foreigners (even if you buy an Elite Card), are very excited to live in the specific new place (like you would even want to live there even without the Thailand baggage), and also possibly for some people the health cover opportunities. 

 

Otherwise -- I think the Elite Card (various times and price choices for that) or complying with the onerous visa rules here (if you can) would arguably be the economically more prudent and realistic choice. 

 

Just my two pesos.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Jingthing

[brokenbone]

to set me up in thailand is below 5000 dollars,

visa/scooter/driving license.

any other country nearby, like cambodia/vietnam/phil

is going to be cheaper cause visa is cheaper,

but i would otoh need to pay for transportation to there,

and most importantly for me it would include a tremendous amount of pain to move

Edited March 14, 2019 by brokenbone

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

to set me up in thailand is below 5000 dollars,

visa/scooter/driving license.

any other country nearby, like cambodia/vietnam/phil

is going to be cheaper cause visa is cheaper,

but i would otoh need to pay for transportation to there,

and most importantly for me it would include a tremendous amount of pain to move

Yeah, of course. Mileage varies.

My set up in Thailand was about 110,000 USD (no car) including the 800K baht visa thingie. 

Obviously I bought here and no plans to buy in Latin America. 

But on the other hand ...

at the current weak Colombian peso it may be very tempting!

Edited March 14, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Just so that nobody ever accuses me of hard selling moving to Latin America from Thailand even though I have shamelessly posted some International Living links consider this fun scenario.

 

Suppose you're one of the brigade like me that is rather heavily invested in Thailand.

 

So then suppose you go through that costly big megillah described before and finally you are newly settled in your top choice in Latin America.

 

But wait. As I mentioned before studies show that in a place like Cuenca Ecuador over half leave within year one.

 

So then what? Well probably back to your home country first which quite possibly you can't afford to live in with dignity or even a roof.

 

Or perhaps back to Thailand or Cambodia or fill in the blank. With an amount of money down the drain that might have bought an elite card even long one and if you sold your condo in a fire sale goodbye free rent.

 

Just saying.

 

 

 

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[CaptainJack]

7 hours ago, SiamAndy said:

Does anyone know the cutoff age for the Mexican National Health Plan?

Andy,

 

This is a really good question,  because it also goes to the Thailand medical insurance possibility requirement. 

 

The Mexican National health plans require equires residency status to participate in IMSS. There is no hard age limit, but any preexisting condition and you are denied. 

 

The private plans,  and this is where the Thailand possibility is important,  those that will write in Mexico,  and elsewhere after age 65 typically cease coverage at 75.  That only leaves go home, be rich, get sick and die or have your insurance before 65, and often 60.  Otherwise,  a full blown international plan. Starting at 10k dollars a year.

 

I've researched the sh*t outta this.

 

Now,  compare Colombia to Thailand on requiring medical insurance.  Colombia has a National plan and you are required to participate.  It is affordable.  If Thailand requires medical and does not open the national program to expats, there (we) are s**ewed.

 

This problem is serious and people need to get off their butts if under 65 or 60 and get coverage. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by CaptainJack
Better wording.

[Jingthing]

I don't want to oversell the Colombia national system. I recently heard they're 4 billion dollars in debt and have corruption issues. Probably worthy of more research.

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[CaptainJack]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I don't want to oversell the Colombia national system. I recently heard they're 4 billion dollars in debt and have corruption issues. Probably worthy of more research.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Read some yesterday.  Yes, there are problems.  One of the big providers was just taken over by another group.   They have a problem but are trying to fix it.

[CaptainJack]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Good question. I'm still not completely certain there is a cutoff.

Looking deeper into this Latin American stuff, there seems to be a good bit of conflicting information and ambiguity. 
For example about the cost of the national program in Colombia. Is it really 12 percent of income? I can't really say for certain. 

I think it might be a matter of going into one of program offices once you live there and finding out for sure!

It's 12.5 percent of your certified ESP income. 

[CaptainJack]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Revisiting the topic of how leaving Thailand for another foreign country is far from free.

How much it costs exactly will depend on personal circumstances and luck.

Some of us may be forced to leave Thailand for various reasons, mostly probably new visa rules related. Others can find ways to stay, complying with the more onerous rules or perhaps buying an Elite Card (also not free). Some will have ties to Thailand that they can't quit (such as Thai wives) or condos where they may need to sell at a very poor price in this current visa scared market.

 

I recently heard an account of a current American expat in Colombia estimate that for a single person coming down from the USA (coming just with suitcases) a suggestion to bring down 5,000 to 10,000 USD to cover everything for initial setup transition, getting initially settled probably in a temporary place, getting the visa, getting into an actual long term apartment, furnishing it, etc. 

 

Consider that coming from Thailand there are extra costs. First of all, I'm going to assume that people are going to want to take at least one exploratory trip to target destinations. Coming from Thailand, that's expensive. Some people take months and years to do just that! I suggest doing lots self reflection and research so that you can narrow down the choices that you think are worth the cost of actually travelling to to check out. But even then, you may go to your top choices, and not like any of them enough, but that leaves other choices that you might. Oh well, part of that is luck if your reflection and research pointed you to the right places for you. Then probably back in Thailand (unless you packed it up before any exploratory trip), for those that are unencumbered here, well that's pretty easy, but for those with assets (bank accounts, cars, condos, etc.) not so quick and easy. So I can only guess what extra all that would cost including the exploratory trip and perhaps multiple trips back to Thailand to fully divorce. Your guess is as good as mine but it seems to me that could easily add up to 5,000 to 15,000. Plus in the case you need to take a very poor price on quick sell assets, that real cost though more abstract could be very high. Impossible to guess that, it would be so different if you have a 1 million baht condo vs. a 10 million baht.

 

In the background of all this, assuming you aren't being "forced" out of Thailand, when you consider all these costs to get out and start over, I reckon most people could afford at least a 5 year Elite Card (500k baht) which played right gives you six years in Thailand without visa hassles (unless they change the rules on that which of course wouldn't shock). Also if you own your housing in Thailand already, you've got "free" rent all that time and no need to take a poor price on a sale. 

 

Then there is health insurance. Perhaps some of these Latin American offers are vital for you compared to your health insurance possibilities and costs in Thailand. That's another financial factor.

 

Bottom line, and I'm not pretending that these rough numbers I've come up with are to be taken literally, it seems clear to me that moving to Latin America from Thailand is a much better financial proposal with no or little asset ties to Thailand. Because like that you could be closer to the 5,000 to 10,000 estimate coming from the USA, adding just an exploratory trip and perhaps another final trip from Thailand.

 

If on the other hand you have these expensive complicating factors, then I think that means that your POSITIVE ATTRACTION to the new destination needs to be quite strong. Beyond only running away because the visa situation here sucks big time. For examples, if you feel that you feel in a rut in Thailand, just are sick and tired of the seemingly and possibly dangerous to your well being hostile official attitude here towards foreigners (even if you buy an Elite Card), are very excited to live in the specific new place (like you would even want to live there even without the Thailand baggage), and also possibly for some people the health cover opportunities. 

 

Otherwise -- I think the Elite Card (various times and price choices for that) or complying with the onerous visa rules here (if you can) would arguably be the economically more prudent and realistic choice. 

 

Just my two pesos.

Whether Latin American or repatriation,  it is going to cost.  If Cambodia or a closer SE Asian country,  definitely cheaper. 

 

I think the bottom line is how much can you afford to stay in Thailand if the rules change and most importantly,  if you know your going to be thrown out, leave.   

 

I have gone through my own emotions and struggles, and I still am, still spending money and working towards a decision which will take another month on whether Latin American or repatriation. 

 

I only had one thing tying me to Thailand,  and that was my girlfriend.   That was hard enough.   I cannot begin to imagine what expatriates with long ties and families will do. I hope and pray things really do work out.

 

I had to leave.  A big mess up on my part. I really was looking at the possibility of arrest and deportation.  No way I'm rolling those dice.

 

Everything you said rings pretty true.  I think the bottom line is anyone that is not truly financial secure to withstand more rule changes in Thailand needs some exit plan.  

 

I have enough money to stay in Thailand,  but my medical insurance costs offset all my savings living there. I'd save money to repatriate and come visit.....

Edited March 14, 2019 by CaptainJack

[Jingthing]

It's 12.5 percent of your certified ESP income. 

What does that mean though? How is it calculated?

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[Jingthing]

Read some yesterday.  Yes, there are problems.  One of the big providers was just taken over by another group.   They have a problem but are trying to fix it.

Yeah I figure all nations with national health systems have issues with money, ethics, corruption, and inefficiency. But I know enough about Colombian politics to know how serious their problem is.

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[Jingthing]

I was talking before about that hopefully there is a positive draw to a new country on top of a need and /or desire to leave Thailand. Well that positive could mostly be a health care system if a person doesn't want to or can't afford to repatriate.

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[CaptainJack]

36 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What does that mean though? How is it calculated?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

When you apply for coverage under the National health programs, not private, and you get your visa and residency, your premiums are based on the income that was certified for your visa. Example,  2,000 dollars a month SS times 12.5 percent monthly is 250 usd a month. I'll know a lot more in less then a month and will confirm in county. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by CaptainJack

[CaptainJack]

31 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I was talking before about that hopefully there is a positive draw to a new country on top of a need and /or desire to leave Thailand. Well that positive could mostly be a health care system if a person doesn't want to or can't afford to repatriate.

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Absolutely.  My reasons in total, leaving Thailand was the right thing for me.  I don't desire to repatriate,  not the least is if the numbers I have run are accurate,  I'll have a 50 percent lower cost of living in Colombia even paying the medical insurance.  

 

Here is the other problem I have with the Thai government and it's attitude towards expats as of now.  If they push through the requirement for medical insurance,  I don't see them caring one bit about the human toll and suffering from a decision such as that. 

 

I had a PM from a disabled expatriate recently and it breaks my heart to hear these guys with their backs up against the wall.  I suspect there is a much larger percentage of expats living in Thailand with no insurance and they won't be able to get any.  Some are too old or sick to leave, even if they wanted.

 

For those of us who have other reasons and ability to leave, I for one say start getting ones plan together.   

 

For those that have nothing to worry about,  they are lucky.  They should be happy for themselves.   All the rest?

 

Let's pray, cause as far as I can tell, nothing else matters.

[marcusarelus]

I got here 20 years ago.  Sold some property and as a result of Singapore kicking my account I put the money into a fixed deposit in Thailand.  In 20 years there have been no changes for me or anyone I know as the fixed deposit was always the easiest way to bet a retirement visa.  With rents as low as they are here it boggles my mind why anyone would have purchased a home.  I've got more now than when I came.  I wonder at posters badmouthing Thailand as it shows more poor personal management and lazy embassies rather than anything Thailand has done. 

 

Why not concentrate on the wonderful alternatives that South America provides because all the talk about changing visa rules falls on deaf ears for most of us as they haven't changed at all. 

[brokenbone]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

 In 20 years there have been no changes for me or anyone I know changing visa rules falls on deaf ears for most of us as they haven't changed at all. 

dont you know anyone below 50 ?

visa has changed on nearly a yearly basis for anyone below 50,

and when i finally became 50, it yet again changes, just when i thought it was over. i'm suspecting i brought the changes with me, cause i'm constantly targeted,

guessing the crusade will carry on until my death

Edited March 14, 2019 by brokenbone

[DaRoadrunner]

On 3/4/2019 at 3:38 PM, Jingthing said:

Please, for obvious reasons, this topic can't be focused on sex tourism or sexpats. There are specialized forums for people that want to discuss that in detail. Not here. 

Gentlemen the OP is trying to have a meaningful serious debate here.... (some chance!)..... Get wiv it, if there is no nookie most of us on this forum are not going. End of.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I got here 20 years ago.  Sold some property and as a result of Singapore kicking my account I put the money into a fixed deposit in Thailand.  In 20 years there have been no changes for me or anyone I know as the fixed deposit was always the easiest way to bet a retirement visa.  With rents as low as they are here it boggles my mind why anyone would have purchased a home.  I've got more now than when I came.  I wonder at posters badmouthing Thailand as it shows more poor personal management and lazy embassies rather than anything Thailand has done. 

 

Why not concentrate on the wonderful alternatives that South America provides because all the talk about changing visa rules falls on deaf ears for most of us as they haven't changed at all. 

Well, I do see your point that the people that have been doing fixed deposit for retirement extensions don't have a change, except in those offices that are requiring people to show up 90 days after their extension to show your bank book again for the "post" seasoning. We really don't know yet whether that is going to be extended to every 90 days after that to check for the "post" "post" seasoning (400K) as well.

That is one subset of people on retirement extensions. 
People that have been doing spending down and topping up and those on income or combo methods from the "lazy" embassies are actually rather significantly impacted by the recent changes. Also people on combo with embassy letters also now have to worry about the new onerous seasoning rules and indeed the entire class of people on combo method are in a state of sometimes severe uncertainty. So sure it's easy for you to not get this because it doesn't effect you personally.

In any case, I agree this thread isn't about the visa changes per se (as that's covered in so many threads) but it is a fact that these changes have already chased some people from Thailand, it will chase many more going forward, and moving to a third not home country is an option for some of those people. 

A region of the world that has most national programs for retired expats is Latin America. Conveniently, most of the programs have quite low financial requirements, usually much lower than Thailand. Inconveniently the visa application processes for I think most of those countries can be a nightmare. 

However, it seems we just may have identified a happy exception to that -- Colombia.

So that is the idea here -- focus on Latin America with an eye for the specific issues of people moving there from Thailand. (Specific police report procedures in Thailand for specific countries when needed, issues with exporting money out of Thailand, adjusting to life in Latin American after living in Thailand (different than coming directly from a western country), etc., etc).

Cheers.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Gentlemen the OP is trying to have a meaningful serious debate here.... (some chance!)..... Get wiv it, if there is no nookie most of us on this forum are not going. End of.

Perhaps but it's not as if there isn't commercial sex available in Latin America. People specifically interested in that for specific countries can easily visit the "naughty" forums and sites that specialize in that. It's really not the topic here. 

[Jingthing]

I want to add an interesting (for visa nerds anyway) bit of information that I recently learned about. Americans that need their social security benefits letters "officialized" for the Latin American nations that require an official translation and apostille have had a problem because these letters do not have a signature. You can't do an apostille on a document without a signature. At this point I do know that the U.S. embassies in Peru and Colombia will take these unsigned benefit letters (even just printed online) and officialize them to the satisfaction of those respective immigration offices. But you need to physically walk in the documents to the embassies in Lima and Bogota or in the case of Colombia you can pay a lawyer and give them power of attorney to do that for you without needing to travel to Bogota. I don't know how this problem is solved in other Latin American nations. Kudos to both the U.S. embassies in at least those two countries and those two immigration offices for accepting those documents from the embassies (hello U.S. embassy in Bangkok!). To make matters even more complicated, I have read that the U.S. state department in the U.S. will no longer process unsigned letters. None of the above is really new per se, but here is the new detail. It seems if you're in the U.S. you can walk in your social security benefits letter to your local social security office, and ask them to SIGN it and STAMP it. With that, the State Department will be able to process that document. I don't know the specific steps for doing that (apostille and translation) that are required for the specific countries but some people even applying in Colombia and Peru might want to do that if they're going to be in the U.S. anyway to avoid the step of dealing with the U.S. embassies in country. In the case of Colombia which has an ONLINE application process, having that document done correctly from the U.S. might make it more practical for you to do your application without a lawyer. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Jingthing

[CaptainJack]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I want to add an interesting (for visa nerds anyway) bit of information that I recently learned about. Americans that need their social security benefits letters "officialized" for the Latin American nations that require an official translation and apostille have had a problem because these letters do not have a signature. You can't do an apostille on a document without a signature. At this point I do know that the U.S. embassies in Peru and Colombia will take these unsigned benefit letters (even just printed online) and officialize them to the satisfaction of those respective immigration offices. But you need to physically walk in the documents to the embassies in Lima and Bogota or in the case of Colombia you can pay a lawyer and give them power of attorney to do that for you without needing to travel to Bogota. I don't know how this problem is solved in other Latin American nations. Kudos to both the U.S. embassies in at least those two countries and those two immigration offices for accepting those documents from the embassies (hello U.S. embassy in Bangkok!). To make matters even more complicated, I have read that the U.S. state department in the U.S. will no longer process unsigned letters. None of the above is really new per se, but here is the new detail. It seems if you're in the U.S. you can walk in your social security benefits letter to your local social security office, and ask them to SIGN it and STAMP it. With that, the State Department will be able to process that document. I don't know the specific steps for doing that (apostille and translation) that are required for the specific countries but some people even applying in Colombia and Peru might want to do that if they're going to be in the U.S. anyway to avoid the step of dealing with the U.S. embassies in country. In the case of Colombia which has an ONLINE application process, having that document done correctly from the U.S. might make it more practical for you to do your application without a lawyer. 

I've read the same info. Your right on all counts.  When I get to Bogota and settle a few days, I'm looking for a lawyer.  I don't want this left to any chance after what happened in Bangkok.