Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[Jingthing]

One of the things many retired expats in Thailand feel is lacking in immigration system is a path to permanent residence (or citizenship). I've been clear that is something that would be highly desirable in any new expat destination nation. Personally I am not totally sure that a second citizenship is that great but permanent residence, certainly.

Here's our Ayn Rand style capitalist again to talk about some options, including in Latin America. He speaks to different wealth level people but you can tell his heart is with the rich ones. 

 

[Cryingdick]

If you are that desperate move to a war zone. I can't imagine what these countries offer for the  average person.

[lapd]

Equador is a good place in Latin America.  Low crime rate.  Cost of living is around the same as Thailand.  Fresh produce year round.  You can choose to live in a cooler climate at elevation or lower elevation for a more tropical climate.  And their currency is USD.  Also not that hard to find female company.

Edited April 26, 2019 by lapd

[grifbel]

22 hours ago, lapd said:

Equador is a good place in Latin America.  Low crime rate. 

Not sure where Equador is but the country of Ecuador has an extremely high crime rate with travel advisories from many countries.

Instead of fake news, at least post some independently verifiable data to back up your claims.  Here, let me show you how it is done.

 

https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=25911

 

Excerpts (direct quotes from website)

 

There is serious risk from crime in Quito. Crime is a severe problem throughout Ecuador.,

 

Pickpocketing, purse snatching, robbery, and theft of travel documents are the crimes most commonly committed

 

Pickpockets and other petty thieves are particularly active in tourist areas, airports, restaurants, bus terminals, public markets, and grocery stores, and on public transportation and crowded streets. Criminals frequently target backpackers and travelers carrying laptop bags for robbery.

 

Violent crime has remained high over the last few years, with U.S. citizens reporting crimes that include armed assault, robbery, sexual assault, home invasion, and, homicide.

 

Armed or violent robbery can occur anywhere in Ecuador. In some cases, robbers have used motorcycles to approach their victims and flee the scene. Criminals have robbed tourists at gunpoint on beaches and along hiking trails. Many robberies take place on/around public transportation, particularly buses. Criminals rob those who have just finished using ATMs or exited banks.

 

Robberies and assaults against taxi passengers (secuestro express) present a significant safety concern, especially in Guayaquil and Manta; they have occurred in Quito as well.

 

Carjacking or thefts from a vehicle have occurred while stopped at intersections.

 

Incidents of sexual assault and rape continue with frequency, including in well-traveled tourist areas.

 

Crime occurs throughout Quito; there are no low-crime areas.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by grifbel

[grifbel]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

a path to permanent residence (or citizenship).

Dont know anybody who cares about that.  More fake news.

[Jingthing]

The popular city for retired expats in Ecuador is Cuenca and Cuenca does have a good reputation as far as safety.

This is a great source for Cuenca info

https://cuencahighlife.com

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

Anyway, Cuenca remains very high on the South American expat list. Their visa though especially coming from living in Thailand is going to be more difficult, more time consuming, and more expensive than in neighboring Colombia.

 

As far as costs Cuenca is probably cheaper than Medellin but Armenia Colombia would be cheaper than Cuenca.

 

Cuenca features wonderful cultural opportunities and a new modern high speed tram system as well.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CharlieH]

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[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, grifbel said:

Dont know anybody who cares about that.  More fake news.

Well, this isn't only about people that you personally know.

I can say with full confidence that a path to permanent residence (and/or citizenship) is a very popular and very positive feature of any retirement visa program when offered. Many countries offer other visa class paths to that as well. 

The reasons are totally obvious, especially for retirees.

Thailand as an example we're familiar with, people apply on a yearly basis and the best status they will ever get is another year extension of stay.

But later on the rules can change at any time, and some people may be forced to leave if they can't comply with the new levels. This can very burdensome and even tragic for some people, especially people that have lived in a country for 10, 20, 30 years and may not have a realistic "back home" to really go to in a decent way. 

Permanent residence and/or citizenship is something desired by many. I often refer to this as RESIDENCE SECURITY. It is something Thailand does not offer and likely never will offer.

 

In terms of the more specific TOPIC here, expatriation options in Latin America, my understanding is that MOST of the Latin American nations that offer retirement visa programs also offer paths to permanent residence and/or citizenship based on retirement status. In some case the permanent residence status is actually granted upon approval of the initial application! That's obviously more desirable than having to wait 3 to 5 years or whatever it is but of course people don't choose to move ONLY on the specifics of visa benefits. 

 

Thailand does offer the Elite Card which is a kind of alternative to a number of years specified longer term residency security but still no path from that to permanent residence or citizenship.

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Jingthing

[Luckysilk]

5 hours ago, grifbel said:

Not sure where Equador is but the country of Ecuador has an extremely high crime rate with travel advisories from many countries.

Instead of fake news, at least post some independently verifiable data to back up your claims.  Here, let me show you how it is done.

 

https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=25911

 

Excerpts (direct quotes from website)

 

There is serious risk from crime in Quito. Crime is a severe problem throughout Ecuador.,

 

Pickpocketing, purse snatching, robbery, and theft of travel documents are the crimes most commonly committed

 

Pickpockets and other petty thieves are particularly active in tourist areas, airports, restaurants, bus terminals, public markets, and grocery stores, and on public transportation and crowded streets. Criminals frequently target backpackers and travelers carrying laptop bags for robbery.

 

Violent crime has remained high over the last few years, with U.S. citizens reporting crimes that include armed assault, robbery, sexual assault, home invasion, and, homicide.

 

Armed or violent robbery can occur anywhere in Ecuador. In some cases, robbers have used motorcycles to approach their victims and flee the scene. Criminals have robbed tourists at gunpoint on beaches and along hiking trails. Many robberies take place on/around public transportation, particularly buses. Criminals rob those who have just finished using ATMs or exited banks.

 

Robberies and assaults against taxi passengers (secuestro express) present a significant safety concern, especially in Guayaquil and Manta; they have occurred in Quito as well.

 

Carjacking or thefts from a vehicle have occurred while stopped at intersections.

 

Incidents of sexual assault and rape continue with frequency, including in well-traveled tourist areas.

 

Crime occurs throughout Quito; there are no low-crime areas.

 

 

 

 

Excellent post.

 

Thanks for sharing the link.

 

Crime is rampant in that part of the world, a mega turn off.

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Luckysilk said:

Excellent post.

 

Thanks for sharing the link.

 

Crime is rampant in that part of the world, a mega turn off.

It's a fear mongering post is what it is. As I've said before, the intention here is to strike a balance between mindless promotion / sugar coating (think International Living) and fear mongering. Of course people should learn about the hazards in different locations, including Thailand, but they should seek out the fuller, balanced picture. Latin America isn't a monolith. If you move there, you're moving to ONE specific location in Latin America. Even beyond that, you'd be moving to one specific NEIGHBORHOOD if you're moving to a city. The profiles for different neighborhoods vary a lot. You move there and like any local you learn where it's safe to go, and where it is not, especially alone at night. Would it be better not to have to think about stuff like that? Sure it would but that's not the reality.  So that's where the focus should rationally be -- the SPECIFIC places that you might be interested in. I've been following expat news out of Cuenca Ecuador for a long time. I would have no fear to visit or move there but I wouldn't do stupid things either to ask for trouble. I would have more fear visiting or moving to many U.S.A. cities. 

 

To add, the difficulties involved in the Ecuador visa system are a major reason Ecuador isn't so high on my list. It would be easier if you're moving there directly from the home country. Otherwise, I see that the case for moving to Cuenca specifically is quite strong. 

 

Cheers.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Jingthing

[grifbel]

46 minutes ago, Luckysilk said:

Excellent post.

 

Thanks for sharing the link.

 

Crime is rampant in that part of the world, a mega turn off.

You are most welcome.  Not only was the info directly from their website, the source is about as credible as you can get, The Overseas Security Advisory Council of  the US Department of State's Bureau of Diplomatic Security (DS)

 

The poster that  that called validated information from this trustworthy source  "fear mongering" is being very irresponsible.  Not sure why he is so focused on gossip and hearsay and refuses to address facts.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by grifbel

[Jingthing]

So you posted it. We're getting balance. We've seen International Living type puff pieces and we've seen scary crime stuff about specific locations that most expats would never move to.

I want to add it is not OK to post huge chunks of text from links as you did in that post before. Post the link and describe in your own words what the link is about and then the protocol is the headline plus the first three sentences. If there is info you would like to highlight deep into the article, then you can describe that in your own words.

Living in Latin America is not for everyone. Living in Thailand is not for everyone. As this topic is on a Thai expat forum in the environment where an unusually large number of expats are considering either leaving Thailand, or not even coming in the first place, the purpose here is discuss the potential options available in Latin America specifically. People that are at all interested of course need to evaluate the pros and the cons based on their own personal criteria. 

 

It seems quite clear (correct me if I'm wrong) that you personally have no interest in moving to Latin America because you believe that every location in Latin America is a cesspool of violent crime. Well, every location in Latin American is NOT a cesspool of violent crime, but I think it's perfectly cool if you and others think that it is and are scared off. The truth is that a number of nations in Latin America are quite popular with expats and most of them that live there haven't been murdered and will never be murdered. What concerns me are any unbalanced efforts to try to convince people of a falsehood -- that Latin America is too unsafe for anyone to consider moving to in any specific location there. It obviously isn't. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Rimmer
Altered quote removed

[grifbel]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I want to add it is not OK to post huge chunks of text from links as you did in that post before.

I want to add that it is not OK to edit another post when quoting it, and that I am not interested in your self-created posting rules. The rest of your troll baiting is ignored.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, grifbel said:

I want to add that it is not OK to edit another post when quoting it, and that I am not interested in your self-created posting rules. The rest of your troll baiting is ignored.

 

Posting SNIPPETS is perfectly OK unless you have intentionally twisted the meaning of the snippet by taking it out of context. That is not my rule. That is the rule. Your impression that posting SNIPPETS is not OK is simply INCORRECT. Many people incorrectly think like you do about that, so maybe others that are interested in learning will find this information helpful. 

 

The rules about not pasting in massive chunks of text are also NOT my rules. That is the rule. I was hoping to help educate you but sadly you're not interested so sorry I bothered. I won't again.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Jingthing

[Luckysilk]

50 minutes ago, grifbel said:

You are most welcome.  Not only was the info directly from their website, the source is about as credible as you can get, The Overseas Security Advisory Council of  the US Department of State's Bureau of Diplomatic Security (DS)

 

The poster that  that called validated information from this trustworthy source  "fear mongering" is being very irresponsible.  Not sure why he is so focused on gossip and hearsay and refuses to address facts.

 

 

Excellent source and a must read for anyone considering a move, talk and a step down.

 

In comparison to Thailand I wonder why anyone would ever dream about relocating unless they are desperate.

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, Luckysilk said:

Excellent source and a must read for anyone considering a move, talk and a step down.

 

In comparison to Thailand I wonder why anyone would ever dream about relocating unless they are desperate.

People retire to Latin America mainly for similar reasons that people retire to Thailand. A better quality of life for the income that they have compared to their home countries.

 

Of course most expats that move to Latin America have never lived in Thailand or Asean and maybe haven't even considered it. North Americans for example often reject Asia just based on the long distance. 

 

As far as the Thailand angle, some people living in Thailand are feeling that they either can't comply with the visa changes or are no longer WILLING to (such as not being willing to tie up your money for so much of the year in the 800K method which is a new negative change). Others are very annoyed with things like immigration needing to know where they are every day of the year adds to the feeling of looking at other alternatives.

 

As far as the sexpat thing which it's no secret is a big draw for many to Thailand, some level of that is available in other nations, and certainly some in Latin America.

 

If you've decided there is no way you would ever consider Latin America and it's only for "desperate" people, then that's great. If you've decided there is nothing that could ever possibly tear you away from Thailand, then that's great too. There is really no right and wrong answer for everyone on that question.

 

But really, this thread is targeted at people that ARE interested in the topic and have at least not entirely ALREADY ruled it out.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Jingthing

[Luckysilk]

Has anyone come across a site that is similar to farang deaths, a site that reports the poor souls who've departed ?

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Luckysilk said:

Has anyone come across a site that is similar to farang deaths, a site that reports the poor souls who've departed ?

Not aware of any but not a bad idea. It would be called gringo something not farang. Perhaps you've stumbled upon a million Colombian peso goldmine idea! You could perhaps retire to Togo on the proceeds.

[seasia]

Hi

 

Earlier looked at a couple of youtube clips re. Quenca,

Not necessarily aimed at potential expats but at least on topic location wise.

 

First is from a couple of vbloggers, they do give an approx. overview of prices.

Renting on a mere 2 month basis a 2 story 3 bedroom place at $ 500 per month, including utilities.

Seems good value to me.

 

Set lunches they indicate at around 2 to 3 $. for 3 dishes.

Nearer the end of the video they walk around a market and give examples of prices. Avocados are cheap !

 

 

 

 

Second one is a Cuenca old town walking tour, plenty of churches there.

Going by this video it appears very pedestrian friendly, nice clean  pavements/sidewalks.

Cars stop at traffic lights also.

No piles of rubbish in the area the blogger covers.Noticed plenty of benches/seating areas, handy if wanting to take a break from walking.

There are no cost indications on this one, just  a visual tour with commentary.

Very scenic.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Looking for a real life case report on an expat from Thailand moving to Ecuador using their two application process. Temp then perm. Talking about the issues around needing police documents from both Thailand and home country all fresh enough and with apostle.

 

Thailand is not an apostle treaty nation.

 

Probably four documents just for the police thing staggered over multiple years. So people would need a process to get the documents while still living in Thailand and then later while already away. Possibly while already away even for the first temp one depending on timing.

 

This is kind of a referring theme of this thread. Having lived in Thailand can present extra issues in addition to the more typical scenario of people moving directly from their home nation.

 

So far as far as I know these reports are not needed for Colombia or Mexico.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jingthing]

There is an issue with Cuenca and some other of these more popular destinations. They have been heavily promoted by what some call the RAMs (retiring abroad media) for many years. So they attract more than their share of more naïve less experienced new expats. Meaning that it can become harder to deal with the dreaded gringo pricing and the locals get more corrupted by so many foolish people that think in terms of this is cheap compared to San Francisco and then double or triple pay thinking it's a bargain. 

 

How to reduce this issue? Well you can try moving to a place that hasn't been corrupted yet where expats are still rare. Such as Armenia Colombia. But then you're in a place with a weak expat support network. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Jingthing

[balo]

Any news about Colombia since I last visited 30 pages ago ?   

 

It's the only country I want to visit and live in.   How about the street food, is it any good?  

[Destiny1990]

31 minutes ago, balo said:

Any news about Colombia since I last visited 30 pages ago ?   

 

It's the only country I want to visit and live in.   How about the street food, is it any good?  

Yes try their  sosa..

[Jingthing]

41 minutes ago, balo said:

Any news about Colombia since I last visited 30 pages ago ?   

 

It's the only country I want to visit and live in.   How about the street food, is it any good?  

Nothing much from me.

They do have street food but based on what I can glean from so far away the majority of it is in two categories -- fruit based stuff and fried high fat meat and starch type stuff. Could be wrong.

I've been wondering if they have Acai (Amazon super fruit) granola breakfast bowls like in Brazil. 

I am picking up a slow burn about the Venezuela refugee crisis. It's not stopping. Colombians are starting to lose their patience and feeling of hospitality towards their Gran Colombia brothers. Some are seeing this as a crisis. Obviously this is a political issue now in Colombia. Most concentrated near that border but the problem can be noticed widely in cities. Desperate hungry people doing shows at traffic lights for tips, running small street micro businesses, lots of begging, and the inevitable property crime risk. Hopefully a solution in Venezuela will start to lessen this problem but things could just as easily get worse.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Not expats per se, but ... !

Going abroad for affordable medical care can be a "gateway drug" for possible future expatriation. It actually was for me. 

 

Quote

Massive caravan of gringo ‘dental refugees’ waits at the border to enter Mexico

 

https://cuencahighlife.com/theres-a-massive-caravan-of-gringo-medical-refugees-waiting-at-the-border-to-enter-mexico/

 

[Jingthing]

Owning a car or not and expatriation to Latin America (or elsewhere). This is probably much more relevant for Americans where a car is almost required. 

 

 

[Scutty]

On 3/4/2019 at 3:29 PM, Snow Leopard said:

What some 60 years old 2 times divorced woman from Sheffield not good enough for you? ???? We all know why we are in Asia. The culture. 

Are you being sarcastic ? In fact a lot of the old men are just here for the cheap sex right .

[Scutty]

On 4/24/2019 at 5:28 PM, Jingthing said:

Africa.

But Africa and Latin America were once joined land masses, so … 

So was Thailand joined to Africa and Latin America at one time too , so ...

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, Scutty said:

So was Thailand joined to Africa and Latin America at one time too , so …

No.