Expats in Thailand considering moving to Latin America prompted by Thai visa changes

[Jingthing]

  

1 hour ago, Enki said:

How can you not be qualified for Portugal, Spain or France?

Non EU citizen.

Under the financial requirements for retirement visa status.

Spain's are much higher than Portugal's though.

My understanding is that France (unlike Spain and Portugal) doesn't have a formal retirement visa.

So France would be on a case by case basis but I just assumed that in my case, it would not be a oui. If I was seriously interested in living in France which I am not I suppose it would be worth at least trying. 

 

As I've mentioned numerous times I have a lower end pension and most retirement visa programs are based only on pensions and don't even have options to show money such as for Thailand (and also some others such as Mexico and Ecuador). So when the requirements are based on pensions only, that is limiting but the bulk of the options for that are in Latin America. In Asean, Cambodia and the Philippines also have programs for lower level pensions. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Jingthing

[Mike Teavee]

13 hours ago, pauleddy said:

How do we know if we can move back to Spain or anywhere?

 

Boris has yet to tell us if we need special visas, or that nothing has changed.

Check this article out https://www.euronews.com/2019/10/30/brexit-draft-agreement-what-uk-citizens-living-in-the-eu-need-to-know-euronews-answers

 

especially the points... 

 

Q:What happens after the transition period?

A: If you want to continue living in an EU country and benefitting from associated rights after this period you will have to apply for permanent residence status in your host country. To do that you will have had to have lived in the host country for five years by the end of the transition period.

 

Q:What if, by the end of the transition period I haven't lived in the EU country for five years?

A: Don't worry. You will still be able to acquire the right to permanent residency by completing five years living in your host country, as long as your five years started before the end of the transition period.

 

So my understanding is as long as I settle in an EU country before the end of the Transition period (30th December 2020) I can carry on living there for 5 years then apply for PR / Citizenship (NB Spain do not allow dual citizenship so if you wanted to get an EU country passport, (technically) you'd have to give up your British one) 

 

[garyk]

Flew into Mexico City three days ago. Caught a bus to Queretaro city.  Food delicious ++++. This time I am staying in an upscale neighborhood.   Not sure how many of you guys travel south of the border.

I have had a tough time adjusting to the women here. After 10 years in Thailand, it is a culture shock for me.

 

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, garyk said:

Flew into Mexico City three days ago. Caught a bus to Queretaro city.  Food delicious ++++. This time I am staying in an upscale neighborhood.   Not sure how many of you guys travel south of the border.

I have had a tough time adjusting to the women here. After 10 years in Thailand, it is a culture shock for me.

 

Very cool.

So how long do you plan to stay in Queretaro?

As I've said Queretaro is at the top of my list of places that interest me in Mexico as a potential expat destination.

Are you there only for tourism or are you considering it as a place to move to?

In any case, I hope you post here about your impressions and of course direct comparisons and contrasts to Thailand are of particular interest here.

[garyk]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Very cool.

So how long do you plan to stay in Queretaro?

As I've said Queretaro is at the top of my list of places that interest me in Mexico as a potential expat destination.

Are you there only for tourism or are you considering it as a place to move to?

In any case, I hope you post here about your impressions and of course direct comparisons and contrasts to Thailand are of particular interest here.

Went shopping in Centro market yesterday. Cheap beyond belief and the food is off the charts. Typical Mexican layout. Weekend they say you cannot go. Too crowded. 

I am in the burbs. Much nicer than where live in the states. And cheaper. But, modern layout, just like upper middle end in the states. Not really my cup of tea. 

I am here for a short time. Will be headed home to pick up my truck. Then will be headed back here to a huge reserve for a few weeks. About 70 km from here. This is just an exploratory expedition.

[thailandsgreat]

4 hours ago, garyk said:

Went shopping in Centro market yesterday. Cheap beyond belief and the food is off the charts. Typical Mexican layout. Weekend they say you cannot go. Too crowded. 

I am in the burbs. Much nicer than where live in the states. And cheaper. But, modern layout, just like upper middle end in the states. Not really my cup of tea. 

I am here for a short time. Will be headed home to pick up my truck. Then will be headed back here to a huge reserve for a few weeks. About 70 km from here. This is just an exploratory expedition.

Is the reserve Sierra Gorda? How do you stay in a reserve, what kind of accommodation?

[garyk]

3 hours ago, thailandsgreat said:

Is the reserve Sierra Gorda? How do you stay in a reserve, what kind of accommodation?

Yes Sierra Gorda, I have not even looked for places to stay yet, other than looking on the internet. I am not a big planner. If I decide to go explore some where. I usually just go. Then figure out the rest on the fly. In Mexico I just look at the hot spots and try too avoid them.

I am REALLY looking forward to exploring Sierra Gorda.

[Gecko123]

On 1/9/2020 at 8:22 PM, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

do you, seriously, have any thai friends (excl. working girls)? south americans are usually lovely friendly people, who are very similar in mind to farang.

Greetings F. Scott:

 

I think in both Thailand and South America forging friendships across cultural barriers requires a lot of time and work. There are class, educational, religious, language, culinary, and lifestyle obstacles anywhere you go. I think it's a mistake to try and make it sound like establishing yourself socially in any foreign country is going to be a cakewalk. 

 

I wasn't trying to portray Thailand as a place where social integration is easier than SA. I was just asking posters with experience in both places to compare and contrast their social integration experiences. To answer your question, I do have several Thai friends, mostly middle-aged and older men who seem to enjoy brief visits where we catch up on village gossip, discuss the economy, current events, and exchange health and diet tips, that sort of thing. The older men seem to have the time to shoot the breeze, and seem to genuinely appreciate the companionship.

 

It has been years since I've been to Mexico but I have been there five times for a total of maybe 3-4 months, but decades and decades ago. I platonically dated a girl named Mercedes in Puebla, Mexico back in 1976. I went out on double dates many times with several other women in the Mexico City area in the early 70's. Out on the dance floor, the girls had these elaborate Saturday Night Fever moves which I was hopelessly unable to keep up with. I have two siblings who own properties in the Yucatan and have been there close to 10 years. While they haven't told me a great deal about their social integration into the Mexican community, my impression is that their social network is mainly expat focused.

 

Were I to move to Mexico or elsewhere in Latin America, I am reasonably confident I could manage to scrape together a half decent social life, but I'm under no illusions that I'd become some kind of a party animal upon arrival. One thing that has always stuck with me is that in CA, both in the Bay Area and LA, I lived in areas such as near Redwood City and near East LA with very large Chicano communities, and I have to say, I never felt a particularly friendly vibe on the street or in the Latin markets. Not unfriendly, but not especially friendly either. I do have memories of strolling around places like Guadalajara, Mexico City, Puebla, Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan and exchanging smiles with passersby.

 

Your comment about Latin Americans being more "similar of mind" is sometimes made by people comparing Thailand to the Philippines as well. People cite the Catholicism in the Philippines as the basis for a common bond between Westerners and

Fillipinos, which I'm sure is true to a certain extent, but when you factor in socioeconomic disparities, language barriers, and even things like the degree of religious devotion, what can at first seem like common ground can turn out to be quite different after you settle in. 

 

Again, not arguing one way or another, just exchanging notes in the hopes it might help others. 

 

P.S. Just stumbled on this channel and found some of his videoes interesting. He talks a lot about the RAM (Retire Abroad Media) and some interesting videos on how places get hyped on U-tube, and then get into a bubble

 

 

 

 

[Inn Between]

I have to admit that I haven't really read much of this thread, although I noticed it quite a while ago. But the recent news of VN requiring foreigners on 90-day tourist visas to exit the country every 30 days and no real sound options for retirement/long-term visas without working there has me thinking that maybe it's time to look elsewhere for a warm place to live. Equator is ranked high up for Central American locations, but I'm thinking of looking a little further south in Columbia, particularly in the Cartagena area. As a Canadian, I can show up and get 90-days without a visa. And if I decide that Columbia is the place I want to retire, the proof of financial (pension) requirements is very low (under $US 800 a month). That's what my research has shown.

 

Columbia today is apparently NOT at all the dangerous Columbia of the notorious Pablo Escabar Drug Cartel days it was a couple of decades ago, but I'd love to hear from anyone who has recent experience in the country. Its health care system is very highly rated, and expat retirees can get the same state-funded coverage as Colombians can get, or they have the choice of self-insuring. A flight from Toronto is just over 5 hours to Cartagena and the round trip ticket costs just over $CAD 700 all-in. That is much more appealing than the 20+ plus hour flight from HCMC or other SE Asian locations and somewhat cheaper. 

 

Like I say, if anyone has experience in Columbia or has done some in-depth research about living there, I'd definitely be interested in hearing from them. 

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Inn Between

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Inn Between said:

I have to admit that I haven't really read much of this thread, although I noticed it quite a while ago. But the recent news of VN requiring foreigners on 90-day tourist visas to exit the country every 30 days and no real sound options for retirement/long-term visas without working there has me thinking that maybe it's time to look elsewhere for a warm place to live. Equator is ranked high up for Central American locations, but I'm thinking of looking a little further south in Columbia, particularly in the Cartagena area. As a Canadian, I can show up and get 90-days without a visa. And if I decide that Columbia is the place I want to retire, the proof of financial (pension) requirements is very low (under $US 800 a month). That's what my research has shown.

 

Columbia today is apparently NOT at all the dangerous Columbia of the notorious Pablo Escabar Drug Cartel days it was a couple of decades ago, but I'd love to hear from anyone who has recent experience in the country. Its health care system is very highly rated, and expat retirees can get the same state-funded coverage as Colombians can get, or they have the choice of self-insuring. A flight from Toronto is just over 5 hours to Cartagena and the round trip ticket costs just over $CAD 700 all-in. That is much more appealing than the 20+ plus hour flight from HCMC or other SE Asian locations and somewhat cheaper. 

 

Like I say, if anyone has experience in Columbia or has done some in-depth research about living there, I'd definitely be interested in hearing from them. 

 

Yeah that's largely true.

I wouldn't say not at all dangerous though. 

To Colombians it feels a lot safer than it used to. 

But for people coming from super safe areas, they will need to learn to be quite security conscious, with the level of that depending on the specific location you're going to. 

Colombia is north of Ecuador not south. 

Ecuador will be more difficult retirement visa application wise than Colombia at the current time.

Yes the financial requirements currently for Colombia are about what you said but there is a threat that they may change that soon.

Yes you not only can get the low cost basic insurance but in theory you'd be required to as a resident (but doesn't seem to be enforced). 

It isn't that great though as far as access to specialists so far a better plan private insurance add ons are sold depending on age and health conditions (and not everyone will be eligible for that). 

Yes you can show up and get 90 days. You are allowed to stay that way 180 days in each calendar year is pretty good but means you can't live there indefinitely for years that way. 90 day extensions are possible in country. 

Cartagena is a big city and is not the safest destination in Colombia so you should do more research on different options.

Santa Marta is an up and coming smaller city destination also on the Caribbean coast that is currently considerably less expensive. Particularly might be worth a look if you're interested in buying housing, which is legal to do as a foreigner. 

If you're looking for a coastal city it will be on the Caribbean, not the Pacific (for safety reasons). 

As far as flights well Cartagena is a major international tourist destination so maybe there are direct flights from Canada but some other destinations may require connections through Bogota.

A good place to start for expat info for Colombia is the How To Expat videos on youtube (focused on Medellin but lots of the info is more general and they cover some other places) and also the Medellin Guru website, the best for updated and good visa information.

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Jingthing

[Inn Between]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah that's largely true.

I wouldn't say not at all dangerous though. 

To Colombians it feels a lot safer than it used to. 

But for people coming from super safe areas, they will need to learn to be quite security conscious, with the level of that depending on the specific location you're going to. 

Colombia is north of Ecuador not south. 

Ecuador will be more difficult retirement visa application wise than Colombia at the current time.

Yes the financial requirements currently for Colombia are about what you said but there is a threat that they may change that soon.

Yes you not only can get the low cost basic insurance but in theory you'd be required to as a resident (but doesn't seem to be enforced). 

It isn't that great though as far as access to specialists so far a better plan private insurance add ons are sold depending on age and health conditions (and not everyone will be eligible for that). 

Yes you can show up and get 90 days. You are allowed to stay that way 180 days in each calendar year is pretty good but means you can't live there indefinitely for years that way. 90 day extensions are possible in country. 

Cartagena is a big city and is not the safest destination in Colombia so you should do more research on different options.

Santa Marta is an up and coming smaller city destination also on the Caribbean coast that is currently considerably less expensive. Particularly might be worth a look if you're interested in buying housing, which is legal to do as a foreigner. 

If you're looking for a coastal city it will be on the Caribbean, not the Pacific (for safety reasons). 

As far as flights well Cartagena is a major international tourist destination so maybe there are direct flights from Canada but some other destinations may require connections through Bogota.

A good place to start for expat info for Colombia is the How To Expat videos on youtube (focused on Medellin but lots of the info is more general and they cover some other places) and also the Medellin Guru website, the best for updated and good visa information.

 

Thanks. This is type of info I was looking for. I have just started doing research on the country and know little of the best places to consider. And also thanks for pointing out my brain-fart geography of placing Colombia south of Equator. I really do know how to use a map -- honestly. ???? 

 

As for flights, I've confirmed they have ones going straight from Toronto to Cartagena, but there are many that transit through Bogota, and some have terribly long layovers, so I'll pay the little extra to avoid those ones. 

 

Medellin is also an area I'm curious about, so I'll check out the links you mentioned, and I'll definitely get more info about Santa Marta as I would much prefer a smaller and less expensive city. 

 

I enjoyed the many years I worked in Thailand, but as a friend reminded me recently, we can't put foot our feet back in the same stream, and that's certainly true of Thailand with all the changes that have come about since I first moved there in the early 2000's. I still plan on visiting Vietnam, and if it's in my cards to get a teaching job there, then I'll probably give it a try for a while, but failing that, Colombia looks like a possible alternative. 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Inn Between

[deeks]

My destination is Thailand, been here permanently for over 7 years, cant think of any other country i would rather live in, All i have to do is obey the law here, other than that i can do what i want when i want, the people here love me and i love them. I retired at 48 to come here because my body was so tired and sore from work, my wife had to use her feet to push my back to help me get out of bed to go to work, Now i have no pain I sleep in as i want and do as i want because we saved enough to retire in Thailand, I can still after almost 20 years coming here tell you that we can buy veggies at the local Talad for 5 or 10 baht a handfull, yes, tomatoes,onions,cucumber,mint,lettuce,cabbage,collie flower, everything. My destination is Thailand, the real Thailand, away from the trouble areas that have a lot of people from outside Thailand, So im happy to see some go, they give the country a certain reputation that im sure will follow them. We will find out after a few decades wont we. Pum Rak Thai.

Edit, Just a notification for all thinking about central and south America is that there are a few websites about that detail gruesome killings and deaths and i would guesstimate that around 80% of those vids and pics are from forsaid area so do your homework first.

Edited February 18, 2020 by deeks

[Jingthing]

'Europe' has a worse crime problem than 'South America'?

It depends! An expat story.

 

Quote

 

An expat explains: ‘Why we left Cuenca for Europe and why we came back’

 

I have seen a number of articles on this website and others that discuss the reasons why people become expats. I have also seen articles about why expats decide to move to other towns in Ecuador or to other countries, and why some of them go back home, usually to the U.S. or Canada.

I was one of those who wanted to continue being an expat but wanted to try out another country.

 

https://cuencahighlife.com/an-expat-tells-his-tale-why-i-left-cuenca-and-why-i-returned/

 

[Jingthing]

I have mentioned before that the election of Andrés Manuel López Obrador as president of Mexico will no doubt mean major changes there for both Mexicans and expats there.

 

His novel efforts to deal the drug cartels and to stop the war model from previous administrations so far doesn't seem to working well at all.

 

One thing I haven't mentioned is his agenda for health care. AMLO has promised to bring the Mexican health care system and access up to the highest global standards (looking to Europe rather than the USA for obvious reasons).

 

I've seen snippets here and there about how that will impact on expats. Mostly in the vein of this is going to mean an improvement for expat's access into their system, but I haven't seen anything definitive or credible on the details about that.

 

So it's something to consider and watch and I also wouldn't assume that the changes will necessarily be good for expats either. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Jingthing

[seasia]

On 2/24/2020 at 3:34 AM, Jingthing said:

'Europe' has a worse crime problem than 'South America'?

It depends! An expat story.

 

https://cuencahighlife.com/an-expat-tells-his-tale-why-i-left-cuenca-and-why-i-returned/

 

I found that article interesting, thanks.

Part of the reason for that is that I have seen very few articles from people who have been an expat in both a LATAM country as well as a European one.

 

A little confused, would I be right in thinking the author is an American, seemed to imply so?

Also no indication of age, could have been useful to know.

 

I have to say I feel he had a slight combination of bad luck and also maybe not enough preparation.

He stated he found Malaga " terribly hot " in the summer. Looking at annual weather charts should have given him a clue of that.

I have friends who visit Spain regularly, some of those in the same general area he was in.

None have encountered crime against themselves.

 

As he states, crime can occur anywhere, accept that.

 

I feel he was also unlucky in Italy, there are parts you would wish to avoid, or take extra care in,often actually the high density tourist areas as opportunist thieves can be attracted to them, mostly petty crime though.

 

Re. Europe ( or some parts of it ) being in decline and the large immigration numbers, yes inclined to agree.

His comment on culture I found interesting.

If we now bring Thailand ( and SEA region ) in to the mix I have been thinking for a while that I would prefer a "Western type" culture more than an Asian one.

I feel some LATAM countries, if not most would be closer to a Western type culture.

LATAM also offers a myriad of climate choices.

 

Just my musings.

[UbonThani]

Easy for Americans. Asian people are better though.

[rabang]

On 2/27/2020 at 4:49 AM, UbonThani said:

Easy for Americans. Asian people are better though.

Asians can be more pleasant to deal with superficially but they lack depth. And I mean SEA mostly.

[Jingthing]

Probably needless to say but with more and more nations putting up restrictive travel bans, this is not the time to be actively shopping for a new expat residence. For those that have already committed to a new country and are already there, in general they are probably OK staying there dependent on visa status of course. But not surprisingly Latin American nations are not immune from the virus situation.

 

Just in today, Colombia just announced a total incoming travel ban for 30 days but it includes it's own citizens! I'm not aware of any other country that has done that.

 

How long will this difficult situation for international movement last? Nobody knows. At least months, possibly years, and likely even with some kind of eventual resolution there will be some permanent changes from this, similar to 9/11 but likely even more so.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Jingthing

[meechai]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Just in today, Colombia just announced a total incoming travel ban for 30 days but it includes it's own citizens! I'm not aware of any other country that has done that.

Yes a Colombian couple I know were very lucky to get home from a Mallorca vacation just in time

The funny coincidence is they were cycling in Mallorca then Spain started their shutdown which prompted them to go home....They feel fortunate it all worked out

[Jingthing]

This is probably academic information for most of us, but just as the baht has weakened against the dollar Latin American currencies have had massive weakening related to the virus.

 

Look at these charts:

 

https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=1&From=USD&To=MXN

 

https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=1&From=USD&To=COP

 

 

Perhaps when this spike reverses, the world will be over this viral panic but again that could take at least several months and even years.

 

Of course for any settled expats in countries with very weak currencies now they might want to take a <deleted> shoot and buy some large assets now.

[grifbel]

Thought I would check back in on this dead thread after hibernating for 50 pages.  Still boring and mostly nonsense.  Will see you again in 50 pages.

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, grifbel said:

Thought I would check back in on this dead thread after hibernating for 50 pages.  Still boring and mostly nonsense.  Will see you again in 50 pages.

Charming.

[transam]

On 3/22/2020 at 6:05 PM, grifbel said:

Thought I would check back in on this dead thread after hibernating for 50 pages.  Still boring and mostly nonsense.  Will see you again in 50 pages.

Look forward to reading your "interesting" threads Dave....????

[Jingthing]

Assuming that some day in the future the world will open up again, there has been a change in Thai immigration that could very well last longer than this crisis. Apparently they are now requiring a statement of all recently travelled to countries. Well that could be a problem with a number of Latin American countries that are on Thailand's yellow fever vaccination required list, including Colombia. Before I think if you weren't flying into Thailand directly from one of those countries this would probably have been overlooked. But if its there on black and white on a form it seems like they would need to enforce it. So why not just get a yellow fever vaccine certificate? Sure you could. It's a major hassle to do in Thailand though and also generally considered on the risky side for people over 60. Add to that it's a stupid requirement unless you're travelling to an effected reason within the country. For example if you were traveling to the Amazon region of a country, you really would want it for health reasons. Otherwise, not really. 

[olfu]

Ok, lets see my two cents.

I considered South America for some time--not anymore.

Started from Dominican republic--two hours fly from Miami is the only benefit. Visited 4 cities--all distinct 3-d world smell. Beggars, rip-offs, garbage etc--keep it. Females consider themselves high level and speak only Spanish. Food lousy, properties overprized. No public transportation from airport.

Costa Rica--visited multiple times--lousy--overrun with homeless in capital--negative impression on everything.

Panama--no public transportation from airport, high crime.

Ecuador--on internet was looking good till this virus hit and suddenly everything bad and corpses laying everywhere.

Columbia--you need good luck having with you.

Mexico--no, thank you.

It maybe strange but you need good luck to survive.

 

[jmccarty]

On 3/25/2020 at 3:26 PM, Jingthing said:

Assuming that some day in the future the world will open up again, there has been a change in Thai immigration that could very well last longer than this crisis. Apparently they are now requiring a statement of all recently travelled to countries. Well that could be a problem with a number of Latin American countries that are on Thailand's yellow fever vaccination required list, including Colombia. Before I think if you weren't flying into Thailand directly from one of those countries this would probably have been overlooked. But if its there on black and white on a form it seems like they would need to enforce it. So why not just get a yellow fever vaccine certificate? Sure you could. It's a major hassle to do in Thailand though and also generally considered on the risky side for people over 60. Add to that it's a stupid requirement unless you're travelling to an effected reason within the country. For example if you were traveling to the Amazon region of a country, you really would want it for health reasons. Otherwise, not really. 

I was travelling to Brazil extensively in 2018.  After the 3rd trip, I stopped to fill the form in Swampy that I had just returned from Brazil.  I had no Yellow Fever vaccination certificate, they have a small clinic next to where the forms are and they give you the vaccination on the spot for 300 baht, and a vaccination booklet with the YF stamp in it.  Perhaps if there is C19 vaccination, this could be done traveler-by-traveler as well like this. 

[jmccarty]

24 minutes ago, olfu said:

Ok, lets see my two cents.

I considered South America for some time--not anymore.

Started from Dominican republic--two hours fly from Miami is the only benefit. Visited 4 cities--all distinct 3-d world smell. Beggars, rip-offs, garbage etc--keep it. Females consider themselves high level and speak only Spanish. Food lousy, properties overprized. No public transportation from airport.

Costa Rica--visited multiple times--lousy--overrun with homeless in capital--negative impression on everything.

Panama--no public transportation from airport, high crime.

Ecuador--on internet was looking good till this virus hit and suddenly everything bad and corpses laying everywhere.

Columbia--you need good luck having with you.

Mexico--no, thank you.

It maybe strange but you need good luck to survive.

 

Luck can be made, good or bad!

[Kickstand]

Try internationalliving.com for good information on retiring overseas. A lot of info on requirements for different countries. An emphasis on central and south America. My choice is Belize.

 

Lived in Honduras for a while and liked it. No problems then, but a little iffy now.

[Logosone]

A little iffy is putting it mildly. I used to live next door to Honduras. We'd get a lot of cute Honduranian women, but they would always tell stories how their mother's shop was forced to pay protection money, how the police were corrupt etc. Honduras has one of the highest murder rates in the world.

 

Violence permeates South America and Central America like a red thread. It goes right back to history actually, with human sacrifices, hearts ripped out etc, and to this day the most brutal people in the world are Mexicans. However, Brazil, Honduras, Colombia, El Salvador, Venezuela, all known for extreme violence.

 

Only Chile, Uruguay and Argentina would seem reasonable options. However, why go for cut price Spain or Italy with scenery when you can have the real thing in Europe? 

 

Latin America would be too far away from civilization for me.

[thesetat2013]

On 3/4/2019 at 3:22 PM, sanemax said:

Did you have sex this morning and last night again ?

I did