<deleted> this I'm outta here! Why do you stay?

[seasia]

On 3/24/2019 at 7:16 AM, tabarin said:

Had to conclude the same, can do it to myself but not to the little one.
Considering moving to Naklua or somewhere between Rayong Airport and Jomtien now, as long we still live in Thailand.

Hello

 

naklua  and jomtien worth a look .

I have lived in naklua 10 years.

It is OK, no place is perfect.

Good choice of restaurants. easy to get about from.

 

Tesco Lotus nearby on pattaya nua, Big C also nearby, T 21 etc. so shopping is easy.

 

Fairly good choice of accommodation options.

I should just say that the pollution level has increased somewhat in the last few months,fair few people coughing and sneezing a bit, including myself. Hopefully temporary.

 

 

[vivid]

39 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

You can get PM2.5 protective masks for kids on that internet thing (it's still around, right?). 

 

I think the thing about dogs and other animals is that even though we higher functioning paranoids get tense about the smoke, it doesn't really make any difference to any other animals. And we are animals, ergo...well, you see the rest....

 

Yes, i have done that.  I have gotten 3M 9003V from Taobao/tmall/1688 even, good thing that we have very good freight forwarders that we can select legit sellers.  Get from legit or official 3M stores on tmall.    I believe Thailand also suffers from 3M counterfeits from what i have read on another thread, but that's another story altogether anyway.

 

The 3M 9003V China mask that is China KN90 certified has a nose-bridge to chin length of 12cm.   It is advertised to fit children as young as age 6, but that's really not to be believed.  It's more like ages 10 for the asian kids.   Similarly the same goes for the 3M 8110S.

Heck, my UVEX adult sized mask has a nose-bridge to chin length of 15cm.  So how can a 12cm one fit 6 year olds?  ????

Parents just slap these on and think that they would work, unfortunately we cannot blame them for not fit-testing them coz that technical knowledge is really not common.  Yes, it does seem that it would fit, but it won't.  

Heck even adults slap on N95 masks thinking that it'd fit, but quite a fair number of those hard "turtle shell" N95s might not fit unless you are of quite a big size.  The soft foldable types are usually better.

 

The Smart Air+ masks that i mentioned developed in SG for the local market has a nose-bridge to chin length of only 9cm for S size.  That's why kids as young as 3-4 year old , actually 3 years old already is a bit pushing it, gotta use some sticky tape for the sides or something.  If your kid is 1-3 yrs old, good luck, nothing would fit.

For M size, the nose-bridge to chin length is 11.5cm, a bit smaller than the 3M 9003V.  Even the Large size is 13cm, a bit smaller than regular UVEX or 3M masks.

 

I'm actually quite surprised that the China market has yet to "copy" Singapore's Smart Air+ young children sizing concept. ????

 

Just some additional/detailed info on kids masks......

 

Opps...a video here could be worth more than a thousand words.  lol!

The powered micro-ventilator is optional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckG_Y1PQnzk

 

In fact, the S small size (9cm nose-bridge to chin) is fit-tested developed for ages 7 and above, that's their guarantee.  The age 3-4 that i mentioned is already pushing it a fair bit (use sticky tape if your child is small).  

Forget about what 3M 8110S or other stuff, unless they can do 9cm or below, it's not going to work.

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by vivid

[Rally123]

On 3/21/2019 at 6:48 PM, lucky2008 said:

If you were to move what city in Thailand would you choose and why? 

Move to a city? Who would want to live in a city? I'm fine as I am out in the countryside and wouldn't want it any other way.

[vivid]

I went to Lazada Thailand (i can't read thai but i can look at pics or understand L, M and S lol) to do a cursory check and no sellers brought in S sized Air+ Smart masks to sell.  Rather unfortunately.

 

For some reason or another that i can't seem to grasp, it seems that sellers find it risky/difficult to sell such small sized masks.  

[balo]

12 hours ago, Trujillo said:

I hope you guys up there are wearing pollution masks when you move outside, ..."

 

Um, where do you think the air inside your house comes from? 

There is a big difference , normally 4-5 times more particles outside than inside, as long as you keep your door shut.  

 

I measured 10 (PM 2.5) inside and 55 outside a few days ago (Pattaya).

[motdaeng]

8 hours ago, balo said:

There is a big difference , normally 4-5 times more particles outside than inside, as long as you keep your door shut.  

 

I measured 10 (PM 2.5) inside and 55 outside a few days ago (Pattaya).

i do not agree at all. there is only a small difference in pm2.5 outside and inside! if the air outside is unhealthy you can be sure,
the air inside is also unhealthy. btw, where does the inside are come from? only solution, using air purifier and here in the north,

to seal the room, that makes a real different!

Edited March 26, 2019 by motdaeng

[THAIJAMES]

I agree I have measured inside and outside and it makes no difference unless you have an air purifier.

seal all the windows and doors as best as you can so that the air purifier doesn't have to work as hard and you can get the air quality better.

(I was amazed at how fast the outside air can leak in within just a few minutes and raise the pollution level up so fast)

 

I also have a CO2 sensor to make sure there's enough oxygen and basically you should open the room at least once a day to outside air to get fresh oxygen if your room is very tightly sealed.

Edited March 26, 2019 by THAIJAMES

[vivid]

I have tried measuring the indoor and outdoor hazy air as well.    

 

Open the windows wide open and let the levels equalize.  Close all your doors and windows.  

 

Switch on your meter (the "true" laser particle counter type is way more sensitive, stable and shows much finer gradations than the IR module cheap types).

 

You would notice over time the indoor levels would drop a bit and then stabilise.  Personally i have measured a 20-30% drop after 1hr+, no air-conditioning.   Apparently the mechanism at work is that the particulates bang into each other and clump together, there is a natural decay over time. But of coz the house is never going to be totally air-tight (CO2 ppm would shot through the roof!) and so there is a limit to how low it can realistically drop.

 

Just some additional tidbits here, not that it matters a lot in real life.   ????

[vivid]

6 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

I agree I have measured inside and outside and it makes no difference unless you have an air purifier.

seal all the windows and doors as best as you can so that the air purifier doesn't have to work as hard and you can get the air quality better.

I also have a CO2 sensor to make sure there's enough oxygen and basically you should open the room at least once a day to outside air to get fresh oxygen if your room is very tightly sealed.

 

I have googled before....can't remember the details but in short, we would encounter CO2 ppm concentrations that would mess us up first (eg doors/windows 100% shut, external conditions are absolutely still so that small door gap does nothing, it gets > 2000ppm and i'd get headaches pretty soon) wayyyyy before oxygen depletion becomes an issue.

 

I think the same thing is faced in enclosed spaces like submarines. 

 

I also have a CO2 meter just for fun, CEM DT-802, NDIR (non-dispersive infrared) sensor.   Costed me about usd 50, gotten from Taobao.com

 

[vivid]

I don't even open the doors/windows at least once a day.

 

I just leave a small gap at the windows, maybe 5mm.  1 or 2 windows is enough if there is beaufort scale 1-2 winds outside. The door gap does the rest esp if the wind is coming in from the windows and leaving by the door.  Small but constant exchange.

Keeps CO2 ppm below 1000pm, nice and comfy.   

 

We do that for all the days coz over here we operate air conditioning every night. Not only a case for hazy days/air purifier ops.  ????

 

Wit a CO2 meter, you really can feel the instant BIG difference between a 900ppm room and a 2500-3000ppm room, absolutely no issue.

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by vivid

[bert bloggs]

We live in Pattaya , or more exactly just on the outskirts , previously we lived in a large town in the UK and before that BKK ,when we came back 12 years ago ,we chose Pattay not for the nightlife ,but for the fact it was by the sea and had good amenaties ,since then it has grown and now has far more , ,i dont like all the traffic at weekends ,but i would not really want to move .

[Odysseus123]

16 hours ago, vivid said:

And yes i hear ya, dogs have lungs too.  Cats too, and all other animals.

 

I was replying earlier to cmsally earlier that i feel for her cat, which threw up 2 days ago when the haze hit bad and had to stay in front of the air purifier.

 

So yes, your dear pets DO suffer as well. 

Chiang Mai-2019..

 

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Odysseus123

[emptypockets]

46 minutes ago, vivid said:

I have tried measuring the indoor and outdoor hazy air as well.    

 

Open the windows wide open and let the levels equalize.  Close all your doors and windows.  

 

Switch on your meter (the "true" laser particle counter type is way more sensitive, stable and shows much finer gradations than the IR module cheap types).

 

You would notice over time the indoor levels would drop a bit and then stabilise.  Personally i have measured a 20-30% drop after 1hr+, no air-conditioning.   Apparently the mechanism at work is that the particulates bang into each other and clump together, there is a natural decay over time. But of coz the house is never going to be totally air-tight (CO2 ppm would shot through the roof!) and so there is a limit to how low it can realistically drop.

 

Just some additional tidbits here, not that it matters a lot in real life.   ????

Or alternatively the drop may be attributed to your lungs filtering the particles and removing them from the room air and your body absorbing them.

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, vivid said:

I think the same thing is faced in enclosed spaces like submarines. 

Oxygen is produced onboard, from seawater, and added to the air.

Scrubbers remove CO and CO2

[Trujillo]

I don't know what sort of house you live in, but mine is as air-tight as a sieve. 

[lucky2008]

16 hours ago, Trujillo said:

You can get PM2.5 protective masks for kids on that internet thing (it's still around, right?

 

Some people just don't get it.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by lucky2008

[Trujillo]

Problem solved. 

[THAIJAMES]

1 hour ago, Trujillo said:

I don't know what sort of house you live in, but mine is as air-tight as a sieve. 

A house with a lot of wooden windows

[THAIJAMES]

2 hours ago, vivid said:

I don't even open the doors/windows at least once a day.

 

I just leave a small gap at the windows, maybe 5mm.  1 or 2 windows is enough if there is beaufort scale 1-2 winds outside. The door gap does the rest esp if the wind is coming in from the windows and leaving by the door.  Small but constant exchange.

Keeps CO2 ppm below 1000pm, nice and comfy.   

 

We do that for all the days coz over here we operate air conditioning every night. Not only a case for hazy days/air purifier ops.  ????

 

Wit a CO2 meter, you really can feel the instant BIG difference between a 900ppm room and a 2500-3000ppm room, absolutely no issue.

 

Just for reference keeping my bedroom closed has a CO2 level starting at 400 reaching a maximum 1300 overnight for a couple hours until I opened the bedroom door in the morning

[vivid]

2 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Or alternatively the drop may be attributed to your lungs filtering the particles and removing them from the room air and your body absorbing them.

One of these hazy days i gotta set up a mini tripod + mobile phone, my 2 laser particle counters (sold my third one, realised i don't need that many lol!) and do a test in my bedroom in the abscence of humans, then upload it on youtube.  ????

 

 My windows have double rubber gaskets, but the door gap at the bottom is pretty huge @ 7mm....so maybe i need to use a rug and plug that up.

[vivid]

47 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

Just for reference keeping my bedroom closed has a CO2 level starting at 400 reaching a maximum 1300 overnight for a couple hours until I opened the bedroom door in the morning

 

My CEM meter has an alarm feature that i set at 1600ppm, during nights when i have forgotten to leave a gap and i didn't set the AC thermostat low enough so that the cool air in the room is "leaking" out from the door gap below, i could easily hit above that.

Last time i managed to hit above 2500ppm in the 3 x 4m room, 1 pax. 

 

Such meters are extremely sensitive too.   In a room with doors + windows open and little to no wind, you'd still see the levels rise from around 400ppm to 450-500ppm.  You can also open a can of coke 1-2m away and see the levels spike.  ????

Edited March 26, 2019 by vivid

[tlandtday]

On 3/22/2019 at 11:37 PM, Happystance said:

Yeah, right. Your "modicum of research" would inform you that that Chiang Mai has unacceptable air quality 7-9 months of the year by global standards.

 

Inept posting is a passing thing too.

And Bangkok, Pattaya, Khon Kaen and Korat not far behind.

[vivid]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Oxygen is produced onboard, from seawater, and added to the air.

Scrubbers remove CO and CO2

Oh, i was referring more to those accidents in submarines, where the systems shut down after a certain period.  Or say Apollo 13 (I think they say that CO2 was an issue before O2 became an issue, maybe there are also some practical operational aspects to the CO2 scrubbers and O2 generators).

CO2 build up or oxygen deprivation, which one kills you first.

 

Just a quick google.  

https://www.quora.com/What-would-I-die-from-if-was-locked-in-an-airtight-room-too-little-oxygen-or-too-much-carbon-dioxide

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/yyg20/if_i_was_in_an_airtight_room_would_i_die_first/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=3b4031dff79c4f418d98adc5571e2273&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=yyg20

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by vivid

[balo]

9 hours ago, motdaeng said:

i do not agree at all. there is only a small difference in pm2.5 outside and inside

I forgot to mention that I do have one small air purifier unit installed for 2 years.

 

I am not lying here, I have a very precise Pm2.5 meter I bought from Lazada.

 

[bkk6060]

On 3/22/2019 at 3:11 PM, tlandtday said:

Give the current pollution the only places worth considering depending on budget are south of hua hin.  Just research all ares down there.

In Pattaya.

A little refreshing rain the past few days.

Nice walks on the beach later.

It is so much better here.

CM is insane now.

If a person cares about their health they need to leave.

60 buck flight to Utapao hotels are inexpensive here.

If you value your life/quality of life get heck out of CM.

If not, stop complaining it is worthless nonsense....

 

[Trujillo]

"...I have a very precise Pm2.5 meter I bought from Lazada."

 

How do you know that? Do you have a way to calibrate it for accuracy? 

It appears that the accuracy according to the manufacturer is +/- 10 percent. 

 

So your meter as pictured is registering a range of about 140 to 115 (while showing 128). I would not call that "precise."

[motdaeng]

9 hours ago, Trujillo said:

It appears that the accuracy according to the manufacturer is +/- 10 percent. 

 

So your meter as pictured is registering a range of about 140 to 115 (while showing 128). I would not call that "precise."

even the accuracy is +/- 10 percent, it gives me the data i need to know.

 

- if it is inside 8 µg/m3 or 10 µg/m3 (9 µg/m3 +/- 10%), that does not matter, because the air is "good".

- if it is inside 54 µg/m3 or 66 µg/m3 (60 µg/m3 +/- 10%), that does not matter, because the air is "unhealthy".

 

my conclusion: if you are interested to know the air quality inside your house, you shoud have a pm2.5 meter. it was also helping me to find the
leaks in the bedrooms ...

btw, i have an outside detector (more expensive) , it has 3 sensors and measures the air automatically every 90 sec. also with this device you will have some different results ...

 

 

 

[brokenbone]

18 hours ago, tlandtday said:

And Bangkok, Pattaya, Khon Kaen and Korat not far behind.

pattaya is in another league altogether

owing to the sea breeze

[THAIJAMES]

19 hours ago, vivid said:

Last time i managed to hit above 2500ppm in the 3 x 4m room, 1 pax.

Good point about the room size and the number of persons and the air leaks in your room.

 

My bedroom is 6 by 6 meters and with one person that is the reason it only reached to 1300 ppm.

 

someone with a smaller room definitely needs to make sure they have some kind of crack or air flow to get enough oxygen to get through the night.

[wgdanson]

20 hours ago, vivid said:

 

My CEM meter has an alarm feature that i set at 1600ppm, during nights when i have forgotten to leave a gap and i didn't set the AC thermostat low enough so that the cool air in the room is "leaking" out from the door gap below, i could easily hit above that.

Last time i managed to hit above 2500ppm in the 3 x 4m room, 1 pax. 

 

Such meters are extremely sensitive too.   In a room with doors + windows open and little to no wind, you'd still see the levels rise from around 400ppm to 450-500ppm.  You can also open a can of coke 1-2m away and see the levels spike.  ????

Coke is just as bad for you as polluted air.   LOL