Stop Brexit: A million people sign UK petition to stay in EU

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yesterday I had the opportunity to discuss this with an IT expert at work. His opinion is that the petitions people are perfectly correct. That there are many ways and means of discovering bots and removing their signatures. He also agrees that it would be foolish to tell those responsible that their signatures had been removed as this would only encourage them to attack the petition in other ways.

 

And as I told you before, there are many, probably millions, of non Brits who have NI numbers because anyone who has ever legally worked in the UK will have one, regardless of their nationality and regardless of whether or not they are still in the UK or have returned home.

 

From everything those who run the petitions site have said, they have far more sophisticated ways of finding and removing false signatures than a mere NI number check. Especially as whilst randomly generating NI numbers would produce many that would be rejected as false, it would also produce many which would be accepted as genuine!

 

I find it amusing that when the many pro Brexit petitions were last year each receiving hundreds of thousands of signatures, no one questioned their validity, but now you Brexiteers are desperate to 'prove' that this one is invalid!

 

If this one can be attacked by bots etc. and so is invalid, then the same is true of all those pro Brexit ones.

I am an IT expert would over 40 years of experience so your post that your spoke with an IT expert is pointless and meaningless and I already stated that all petitions on this website are pointless without valid verification

National Insurance number was a suggestion they are over means 

The goverment does have a verify service but it would need to be modified or changed to validate people submitting petition votes as the current service  You don’t have to be a UK citizen

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/introducing-govuk-verify/introducing-govuk-verify

[7by7]

20 hours ago, nontabury said:

I can only confirm that, I watched this discussion on British T.V this morning. The program is called Good Morning Britain, and they were interviewing an expert on Tourism.

I heard on the radio news on Thursday that the EU has agreed that British tourists visiting EU countries for up to 90 days will not need a visa. It was also in the papers that same day:

Brexit: Britons WON’T need a visa to travel to the EU if there’s no deal new law rules

 

So much for your travel 'expert's' opinion!

[7by7]

19 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 As good a program as any other news source. But of course, because you do not agree with a certain section, it must be rubbish. Typical remainer attitude.

 Well, they definitely got it wrong on this one!

 

As you would have known had you paid attention to other sources!

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, evadgib said:

43 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

However, I'm not going to engage in a childish "Yes you did!" "No you didn't!" spat with you, so believe what you wish.

You fancy one of them with me 49? 

As you are the acknowledged master of such, I yield to you.

 

Of course, if you would like to engage in a reasoned, intelligent discussion, let's go for it. 

 

I just wonder how long you could do so before descending to your usual childish nonsense and social media cut and pastes.

Edited April 6, 2019 by 7by7

[evadgib]

7 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

As you are the acknowledged master of such, I yield to you.

 

Of course, if you would like to engage in a reasoned, intelligent discussion, let's go for it. 

 

I just wonder how long you could do so before descending to your usual childish nonsense and social media cut and pastes.

I was pulling your leg!

Glad to see you're on form but sadly i'm too busy to assist you in winding yourself up at the moment ????

[7by7]

 

13 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I am an IT expert would over 40 years of experience so your post that your spoke with an IT expert is pointless and meaningless and I already stated that all petitions on this website are pointless without valid verification

Your opinion. His opinion is that the petitions people are correct when they say they have ways and means of verifying that signatures are from real people rather than bots and of removing the false ones. That you call his opinion 'pointless and meaningless' because it destroys your argument is up to you.

 

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

National Insurance number was a suggestion they are over means 

Don't know what 'they are over means' means; but you do now seem to be agreeing that using NI numbers would not verify that the person signing is a genuine person. 

 

17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The goverment does have a verify service but it would need to be modified or changed to validate people submitting petition votes as the current service  You don’t have to be a UK citizen

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/introducing-govuk-verify/introducing-govuk-verify

That has nothing to do with the petitions site; as you well know. But even if the petitions site were included or it were modified for the site's use, how many people would bother going through all that rigmarole just to sign a petition? 

 

It would defeat the whole purpose of the site; which is about a lot more than Brexit.

 

Yes, the current petitions site does allow non UK residents to sign; but many British citizens are ex pats. Would you like to be barred from ever signing one because you don't live in the UK?

 

It also allows non Brits to sign. How do you intend to remedy this? Using passport numbers? Not only can they, like NI numbers, be randomly generated but not every Brit has a passport. Would you ban them from signing a petition?

 

But why did you never bring any of this up when we were discussing the many pro Brexit petitions last year?

[7by7]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

I was pulling your leg!

Glad to see you're on form but sadly i'm too busy to assist you in winding yourself up at the moment ????

And there we have it.

 

I offer to engage with you in adult debate, and all you can come up with is the above.

 

Says it all about you, really.

[Loiner]

The 'claim' was nothing of the sort.
 
It was the youngsters' belief.....

So many of those young Remainers thought the whole EU thing is only about them being able to go on holiday. The worst of it is that some of them still believe that! Remain lying and misinforming their own voters.

[Loiner]

 
 On the Tv this morning,they were discussing, how the E.u’s threat to make it difficult for Brits to travel for holidays on Europe by air or car, has backfired on them.

Project Fear 2.0 notched it up a bit more today. Threats that we won’t be able to take pork pies, Cornish pasties or scotch eggs into Europe after Brexit.
Could it get any worse? Yes, also warnings that there will be a fish and chip shortage! You couldn’t make it up. Well... the Remainers just did.

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Your opinion. His opinion is that the petitions people are correct when they say they have ways and means of verifying that signatures are from real people rather than bots and of removing the false ones. That you call his opinion 'pointless and meaningless' because it destroys your argument is up to you.

 

Don't know what 'they are over means' means; but you do now seem to be agreeing that using NI numbers would not verify that the person signing is a genuine person. 

 

That has nothing to do with the petitions site; as you well know. But even if the petitions site were included or it were modified for the site's use, how many people would bother going through all that rigmarole just to sign a petition? 

 

It would defeat the whole purpose of the site; which is about a lot more than Brexit.

 

Yes, the current petitions site does allow non UK residents to sign; but many British citizens are ex pats. Would you like to be barred from ever signing one because you don't live in the UK?

 

It also allows non Brits to sign. How do you intend to remedy this? Using passport numbers? Not only can they, like NI numbers, be randomly generated but not every Brit has a passport. Would you ban them from signing a petition?

 

But why did you never bring any of this up when we were discussing the many pro Brexit petitions last year?

The simple way forward is for the The Electoral Commission to issue everyone that registers to vote with an unique number in the form of a voting card that you can carry in your wallet or handbag and when you want to vote in an online petition you simple type in the number.

Here is list of Goverment failed IT projects which employed many IT experts

https://www.softwareadvisoryservice.com/en/blog/biggest-uk-government-project-failures/

[malagateddy]

Devil is in the detail..subservient to eu rules n regs for some time.
More directives coming UK's way for few years etc

OK, so tell us what it is about her deal which appeases the EU, which gives a V sign to the British people.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[wilcopops]

14 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So we are constantly told brexit is killing the economy and housing prices. So what happened to house prices drooping by a third?

Whilst the headline is misleading it still states that house prices are rising. I suspect the remainers will say that the banks and mortgage providers are talking rubbish as it doesn't fit into their doomsday prophecy.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/halifax-says-house-prices-defy-brexit-uncertainty-to-rise-3-2-kwg2kzh3g

like most Brexiteers, why let the evidence get in the way of your dogma.......just look t the state of the country and compare it to what Leave campaign said 3 years ago.

[7by7]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

The simple way forward is for the The Electoral Commission to issue everyone that registers to vote with an unique number in the form of a voting card that you can carry in your wallet or handbag and when you want to vote in an online petition you simple type in the number.

I remind you again of random number generators which would be capable of coming up with these numbers; some of which may be recognised and allow a signature, some not.

 

What you suggest is coming very close to an ID card. Whilst I, myself, am in favour of such, we all know that the majority of the British public are firmly against the idea or anything like it!

 

However, everyone who registers to vote is already on the electoral register, and receives a polling card prior to elections. I expect that I'll shortly be receiving mine for the local government elections on the 2nd May.

 

But your idea would not stop non Brits from signing Parliamentary petitions.

 

Irish and Cypriot and Maltese citizens resident in the UK can vote in UK general elections, as can citizens of any and all Commonwealth countries who are resident in the UK without time limit. So all these are on the electoral register and would have one of your cards.

 

Even EU citizens resident in the UK without time limit can vote in local elections, so they are also  on the register and so have one of your cards.

 

13 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Here is list of Goverment failed IT projects which employed many IT experts

https://www.softwareadvisoryservice.com/en/blog/biggest-uk-government-project-failures/

Your desperation is showing; If these experts were wrong, than you are just as likely to be as my work colleague!

 

But I ask again, why are you so desperate to prove this petition to be false, yet accepted without a qualm or quation the signatures on all the pro Brexit ones?

 

Well, the answers obvious, isn't it?

[7by7]

13 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Devil is in the detail..subservient to eu rules n regs for some time.
More directives coming UK's way for few years etc

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

OK, so tell us what it is about her deal which appeases the EU, which gives a V sign to the British people.

 Go on, tell us more; tell us what you think rather than merely regurgitating the party line.

 

What EU rules and regs will we be subservient to, and for how long? (I know the answer; do you?)

 

What future directives will we be subject to?

 

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I remind you again of random number generators which would be capable of coming up with these numbers; some of which may be recognised and allow a signature, some not.

 

What you suggest is coming very close to an ID card. Whilst I, myself, am in favour of such, we all know that the majority of the British public are firmly against the idea or anything like it!

 

However, everyone who registers to vote is already on the electoral register, and receives a polling card prior to elections. I expect that I'll shortly be receiving mine for the local government elections on the 2nd May.

 

But your idea would not stop non Brits from signing Parliamentary petitions.

 

Irish and Cypriot and Maltese citizens resident in the UK can vote in UK general elections, as can citizens of any and all Commonwealth countries who are resident in the UK without time limit. So all these are on the electoral register and would have one of your cards.

 

Even EU citizens resident in the UK without time limit can vote in local elections, so they are also  on the register and so have one of your cards.

 

Your desperation is showing; If these experts were wrong, than you are just as likely to be as my work colleague!

 

But I ask again, why are you so desperate to prove this petition to be false, yet accepted without a qualm or quation the signatures on all the pro Brexit ones?

 

Well, the answers obvious, isn't it?

Its your desperation that is showing you were the one that introduced your IT mate in this thread to attempt that your and his opinion is senior to anyone else.

I know many IT experts there are multiple disciplines in IT so an expert in IT software may have an opinion about a different field in another IT discipline but if asked they would state there not an expert in that field.

Your seeming to be selective in your reading of my posts as I have stated many times that all petitions are worthless and pointless until they petition site owners implement some sort of valid vertification process

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Its your desperation that is showing you were the one that introduced your IT mate in this thread to attempt that your and his opinion is senior to anyone else.

I offered a different opinion; one which agreed with that of the people who run the petitions website.

 

It is you who cannot accept one which differs to your own!

 

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I know many IT experts there are multiple disciplines in IT so an expert in IT software may have an opinion about a different field in another IT discipline but if asked they would state there not an expert in that field.

Indeed, so why is your opinion any more valid than that of my colleague , those who run the petitions site or any one else who disagrees with you?

 

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Your seeming to be selective in your reading of my posts as I have stated many times that all petitions are worthless and pointless until they petition site owners implement some sort of valid vertification process

Yes, you are saying that now; but I don't recall you saying it about the pro Brexit petitions last year!

 

Of course, you could prove me wrong by producing the relevant post from last December in which you did.

 

Addendum: I've got to sign off now, so you've plenty of time to find it.

Edited April 6, 2019 by 7by7

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

I offered a different opinion; one which agreed with that of the people who run the petitions website.

 

It is you who cannot accept one which differs to your own!

 

Indeed, so why is your opinion any more valid than that of my colleague , those who run the petitions site or any one else who disagrees with you?

 

Yes, you are saying that now; but I don't recall you saying it about the pro Brexit petitions last year!

 

Of course, you could prove me wrong by producing the relevant post from last December in which you did.

 

Addendum: I've got to sign off now, so you've plenty of time to find it.

you want you find it you like to try and prove to everyone your are always right and everyone else that doesn't agree with your viewpoint is wrong 

Ps I have written to my MP with a detailed written statement outlining how the petition website can be abused, I suggest you write to your MP also

Edited April 6, 2019 by vinny41

[Loiner]

Remainers had their petition. It got a lot of signatures. As promised by the govt, 100,000 got you a debate.
The govt response was: Government responded
This response was given on 26 March 2019
This Government will not revoke Article 50. We will honour the result of the 2016 referendum and work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union.
Debate about the petition is meaningless now.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

And there we have it.

 

I offer to engage with you in adult debate, and all you can come up with is the above.

 

Says it all about you, really.

How about your total lack of humour or failure to realize that posters living 6hrs in front of you might prefer short exchanges (that nonetheless put their point across) over 'War & Peace'?

 

You would save time and be more entertaining posting as a talking head ????

 

 

HTH

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by evadgib

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The simple way forward is for the The Electoral Commission to issue everyone that registers to vote with an unique number in the form of a voting card that you can carry in your wallet or handbag and when you want to vote in an online petition you simple type in the number.

Here is list of Goverment failed IT projects which employed many IT experts

https://www.softwareadvisoryservice.com/en/blog/biggest-uk-government-project-failures/

A submission along these lines is currently being drafted and will be forwarded via the appropriate channels in due course. 

[Loiner]

The revoke Article 50 petition is done and dusted. Debated in Parliament and responded to. Not happening.
Why not have your next Remain petition like the X Factor? Simon Cowell could probably organise it for you. Make a few bob to boot.



Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[tebee]

[tomacht8]

[tebee]

A shambles on which the sun never sets: how the world sees Brexit

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/06/a-shambles-on-which-the-sun-never-sets-how-the-world-sees-brexit

 

A New York Times columnist believes the UK “has gone mad”. How, asks a Russian TV host, can Britain fail so spectacularly “to correlate its capabilities with reality”? for Australia, it’s like “watching a loved grandparent in physical and mental decline”.

 

From China to Israel and Russia to Brazil, a world well beyond Europe is watching Britain’s Brexit bedlam with sorrow, bafflement and amusement – and, in those parts of the globe once told that Rule Britannia meant order, stability and shared long-term prosperity, not a little schadenfreude.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

you want you find it you like to try and prove to everyone your are always right and everyone else that doesn't agree with your viewpoint is wrong 

Ps I have written to my MP with a detailed written statement outlining how the petition website can be abused, I suggest you write to your MP also

So you want me to find a post which I say doesn't exist!

 

Of course I try to prove I'm right. Of course I believe those who don't agree with my viewpoint are wrong!

 

If you didn't do the same you would not have been vigorously defending your view that this petition is in some way fixed.

 

The difference between you and I is that I am prepared to defend my position, whereas you have gone into a hissy fit because you've run out of argument.

 

Why would I want to write to my MP? I am satisfied that the security measures of the petitions website are as described by those who are actually responsible for them and take their word that those measures are adequate.

 

Assuming your letter doesn't go straight into your MP's assistant's junior assistant's circular file, I'll be interested in the reply, though. Bet he or she refers the letter to the petitions site and the reply comes from them: saying pretty much the same as they have already told the media and which I quoted several pages back!

 

 

[7by7]

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

Project Fear 2.0 notched it up a bit more today. Threats that we won’t be able to take pork pies, Cornish pasties or scotch eggs into Europe after Brexit.
Could it get any worse? Yes, also warnings that there will be a fish and chip shortage! You couldn’t make it up. Well... the Remainers just did.

You forgot (more likely chose not) to mention this is only if we leave without a deal.

 

At the moment as we are a member of the EU there is no restriction on what foodstuffs we can take with us to other EU countries, and no restriction on what other EU nationals can bring to the UK.

 

But there are restrictions on what non EU nationals can bring into EU member states, including the UK.

 

Bringing food, animals or plants into the UK

Quote

Outside the EU

Meat, dairy products and potatoes

You can’t bring meat, meat products, milk, dairy products or potatoes into the UK from outside the EU unless you’re coming from:

Iceland

the Faroe Islands

Greenland

You can bring up to 10kg from these countries.

 

If we leave the EU without a deal then obviously we will be counted as being outside the EU on this and all other matters!

 

Why should we be given preferential treatment unless we arrange a deal of some sort with them?

 

Though deal or no deal,  despite @nontabury's feeble attempt at 'Project aren't the EU being nasty to us:-

Quote

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 9:35 AM, nontabury said:

 
 On the Tv this morning,they were discussing, how the E.u’s threat to make it difficult for Brits to travel for holidays on Europe by air or car, has backfired on them.

The EU have agreed that British tourists can visit the EU for up to 90 days without a visa. Something which was announced the same morning as the misinformed TVAM piece he refers to!

 

Perhaps he or you can explain how this is making it difficult for Brits to travel to the EU for holidays?

 

 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

How about your total lack of humour or failure to realize that posters living 6hrs in front of you might prefer short exchanges (that nonetheless put their point across) over 'War & Peace'? 

 

You would save time and be more entertaining posting as a talking head ????

Pathetic.

 

Unlike you, my aim is not to entertain; it is to engage in adult debate. Unfortunately you, and some others, have no desire to do the same.

 

I am not the only one who at times makes lengthy posts to put across, justify and defend my position. Indeed, most of those who do the same are your fellow Brexiteers (look at those of @vinny41 on the security of the petition in this topic for example.

 

You don't complain about the length of those; don't complain that they are too long for you to read in one sitting!

 

That you are 6 hours in front of me shouldn't stop you from reading my posts, just as being 6 hours behind doesn't stop me from reading the posts of those Brexiteers liking in Thailand; who make up the majority of Brexiteers here.

 

But you probably stopped reading this after the first sentence.

 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The simple way forward is for the The Electoral Commission to issue everyone that registers to vote with an unique number in the form of a voting card that you can carry in your wallet or handbag and when you want to vote in an online petition you simple type in the number.

Here is list of Goverment failed IT projects which employed many IT experts

https://www.softwareadvisoryservice.com/en/blog/biggest-uk-government-project-failures/

A submission along these lines is currently being drafted and will be forwarded via the appropriate channels in due course

 Drafted and to be submitted by whom?

 

How will you overcome the objections to this I raised earlier; which you probably missed as they were in a lengthy post. So I'll repeat them in the hope you've manged to read this far.

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

I remind you again of random number generators which would be capable of coming up with these numbers; some of which may be recognised and allow a signature, some not...…...

 

........your idea would not stop non Brits from signing Parliamentary petitions.

 

Irish and Cypriot and Maltese citizens resident in the UK can vote in UK general elections, as can citizens of any and all Commonwealth countries who are resident in the UK without time limit. So all these are on the electoral register and would have one of your cards.

 

Even EU citizens resident in the UK without time limit can vote in local elections, so they are also on the register and so (would) have one of your cards.

 

[vinny41]

21 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

So you want me to find a post which I say doesn't exist!

 

Of course I try to prove I'm right. Of course I believe those who don't agree with my viewpoint are wrong!

 

If you didn't do the same you would not have been vigorously defending your view that this petition is in some way fixed.

 

The difference between you and I is that I am prepared to defend my position, whereas you have gone into a hissy fit because you've run out of argument.

 

Why would I want to write to my MP? I am satisfied that the security measures of the petitions website are as described by those who are actually responsible for them and take their word that those measures are adequate.

 

Assuming your letter doesn't go straight into your MP's assistant's junior assistant's circular file, I'll be interested in the reply, though. Bet he or she refers the letter to the petitions site and the reply comes from them: saying pretty much the same as they have already told the media and which I quoted several pages back!

 

 

I haven't gone into a hissy fit as you say I think your the person that having a hissy fit, you ask me to search for a post on here like I am your lackey don't think so if you want to search the forums to prove your point.

Most decent people I know including myself if we found a security breach on a website that could lead to fraudulent activity

would not publish those details on a public forum in order to promote more fraudulent activity.

As to what the staff said on the petitions website was a standard reply, I am aware of Banks that have security breaches but have never admitted to such security breaches as admitted to such breaches could cause a loss of confidence from their customers and shareholders.

Just to let you know I have written to my MP on many different occasions and yes the MP staff read the inital letter and if the issue is considered important is immediately for the attention of the MP.

While you may be interested in my MP reply all correspondence between mps and constituents are regarded as  confidential

which means for my eyes only.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

The revoke Article 50 petition is done and dusted. Debated in Parliament and responded to. Not happening.

 As expected it went they way of the vast majority of these petitions. Indeed, based on my experience with petitions on other matters, I predicted as much from the start.

 

But, it does show the large and increasing support for Remain.

 

Maybe more MPs will see this as a sign that they should let the people decide.

 

How likely are MPs to back a second referendum on Brexit?

Quote

Two hundred and sixty eight MPs backed a new public vote, with 295 opposed: that makes 47.6 per cent in favour – fewer than support a customs union, but more than May's deal. Having been dismissed by many since June 2016, a second referendum is now a genuine possibility. Its fate largely lies with the 75 MPs who abstained from voting.

As that article says, it is not a foregone conclusion that enough of the abstainers would back a second referendum; but it's not impossible either.