Being Forced out?

[mike787]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

1. There are a lot of "genuine retirees" who would strongly disagree with you about that.

 

2. Stockholm syndrome.

 

or out of touch with reality AKA denial. 

[steven100]

2 hours ago, connda said:

continue to live a good, comfortable life after I'm gone to the great beyond.  She already has the house, land, assets to keep her comfortable, and when she passes on it goes to my step son

you talk this way it makes me sad.

[mike787]

1 hour ago, Patriot1066 said:

Really has it? Or are they just reenforcing rules that have been lax in the past?

 

Seems to me that immigrants need to contribute to their new country or no point if having the inconvenience of having them?

 

 

Expats = immigrants.  Ok!  Many of us 'good guys" expats have paid sin sot, bought homes, cars, support/started a thai family, and or village, made significant contributions to the Thai economy.  Based on your comment, we expats are an inconvenience to Thai society.  What significant contributions have you made that have elevated your status above us.  Please educate all of us so we can be more like you. 

[steven100]

6 minutes ago, mike787 said:

Foreigners have abused the Thai immigration system. So much so that they are tightening the regulations. 

They welcome genuine tourists and genuine retirees.

This is exactly correct. Foreigners have been comming and going for 2,3,4 or more years on tourist visas ....  basically abusing the system that was designed for tourism.

So now that Thailand has said enough is enough ..... everyone is crying like a baby.

[baansgr]

5 minutes ago, steven100 said:

This is exactly correct. Foreigners have been comming and going for 2,3,4 or more years on tourist visas ....  basically abusing the system that was designed for tourism.

So now that Thailand has said enough is enough ..... everyone is crying like a baby.

But the tourist visa is easier and is being extended till june for free...whats been made harder is for retirees on extensions.

[joevanwyck]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

Nobody is pushing foreigners out. It's just that Thailand is now trying to get it's immigration more in line with other countries. The problem is that Thailand has been for many years one of the easiest places in the world to retire. .

I don't think any country wants to have a lot of retirees with little money and not paying tax.

Also, most countries do not allow tourists to stay for more than six months.

Your claims do not make any sense at all, because in both Chiangmai and Hua Hin. More and more expatriates are coming to retire there. So much so that the immigration department. In both places have to keep moving to larger premises. 

Foreigners have abused the Thai immigration system. So much so that they are tightening the regulations. 

They welcome genuine tourists and genuine retirees. I don't know where you live or who you associate with. But I find Thailand a wonderful place with lovely, friendly people. I made the proper decisions to have enough money to retire here as I would in any other country.

Very well said.

[CMNightRider]

51 minutes ago, Jim7777 said:

All my bills combined here in Thailand including rent are less than $600 US dollars a month and we live in a big house which is pretty modern and we live very comfortably and we have American cable TV through AIS with great iPhone service and everything here is really cheap.  If you live modestly your bills here would be a lot less than mine and my bills aren’t much even as comfortably as we live.  You have to ask yourself can you afford to retire?  You said something about being an “old NCO” are you retired military?  Because if you’re receiving any types of pensions 800K is not the only option, if you are on a retirement extension you have to at least make 65K Baht a month and 40K Baht a month for a marriage visa extension.  I don’t know what your financial situation is but if you make less than their minimum required monthly income then it’s kind of on you, just because you were writing in whatever income amount you wanted on the Embassy income affidavits for years doesn’t make it right just because they closed that loop hole and did away with income affidavits.  That’s actually why they made the changes but the specific income requirements are actually still the same as they have always been.  

 

Although I do think immigration should lower the income requirement at least a little bit for people like you who make enough money to live here but maybe not as much as what immigration requires but unfortunately that’s not up to me.  That’s why you have to at least know what their basic immigration rules are for everything especially financial requirements before deciding to retire here.  Good luck.  

Most westerners do not have a problem showing the equivalent of 800,000 baht in a bank account or the equivalent of 65,000 baht a month income.  The problem is depositing this money in a Thai bank.  This is the reason so many westerners are leaving Thailand, as their visas come due.  Only the simple minded can't seem to see the folly in banking in Thai banks.  

 

Thailand is not some sort of ultimate destination for expats.  It is basically a third world country that up to now was an inexpensive and friendly country for westerners to retiree to.  A big problem for many westerners that have lived here for years, is they have married Thais, and purchased homes.  Most do not want their liquid money in a Thai bank or have their pensions deposited in a Thai bank.  This is stupidity on steroids.

 

Anyway, the current leaders of Thailand, seem hell bent on ridding Thailand of westerners, and exploiting those who comply with their "bank in Thailand" nonsense, that see no problem in one year visas, 90 day reporting, and TM forms.  The more intelligent are moving on.  

 

There is a large American retiree presence in Thailand, that are starting to dwindle in numbers thanks to the American Embassies failure to issue income verification letters.        

[steven100]

17 minutes ago, baansgr said:

But the tourist visa is easier and is being extended till june for free...whats been made harder is for retirees on extensions.

what has been made harder ?  ....   show income ? 800k ?

[moe666]

How is he being forced out other than the fact it appears he doen't qualify for extension of stay using the cash in the bank, he doesn't mention the income method. I will take a wild guess that he has been lying about his income at the Embassy. If I am wrong I will apologize. 

The only people being forced out are those who cannot qualify for the extension of stay using one of two methods to show income. People who have been fudging the books for years were only fooling themselves.

[moe666]

5 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Most westerners do not have a problem showing the equivalent of 800,000 baht in a bank account or the equivalent of 65,000 baht a month income.  The problem is depositing this money in a Thai bank.  This is the reason so many westerners are leaving Thailand, as their visas come due.  Only the simple minded can't seem to see the folly in banking in Thai banks.  

 

Thailand is not some sort of ultimate destination for expats.  It is basically a third world country that up to now was an inexpensive and friendly country for westerners to retiree to.  A big problem for many westerners that have lived here for years, is they have married Thais, and purchased homes.  Most do not want their liquid money in a Thai bank or have their pensions deposited in a Thai bank.  This is stupidity on steroids.

 

Anyway, the current leaders of Thailand, seem hell bent on ridding Thailand of westerners, and exploiting those who comply with their "bank in Thailand" nonsense, that see no problem in one year visas, 90 day reporting, and TM forms.  The more intelligent are moving on.  

 

There is a large American retiree presence in Thailand, that are starting to dwindle in numbers thanks to the American Embassies failure to issue income verification letters.        

Why is depositing money in a Thai bank so hard for some but others do it day in and day out with out a problem.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, moe666 said:

Why is depositing money in a Thai bank so hard for some but others do it day in and day out with out a problem.

Agree. I've been transferring funds into Thailand for ten years without a single hiccup. I stick to savings passbooks to avoid any rogue electrons. I withdraw in cash as I need it.

I suspect the people who don't want to have 800,000 baht on deposit with a Thai bank either don't have it, or it constitutes the bulk of their life savings.

 

[rascalman]

OK I have over $4,000 monthly. I am not different than most. Obligations in home country. Please do understand. 

[baansgr]

19 minutes ago, steven100 said:

what has been made harder ?  ....   show income ? 800k ?

Having to leave said funds on deposit for longer and no access to half of them, plus no ince.letters for those that have genuime income, thats whats harder for many

[Thaidream]

6 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Why is depositing money in a Thai bank so hard for some but others do it day in and day out with out a problem.

Simple answer.  We do not want to take our savings which we have worked for decades to accumulate or our retired income and place it in a bank in a country that has a lack of complete deposit insurance; a country in which bank personnel  raid accounts and steal money; and a banking system that on the surface seems secure but is not.

 

You want to learn about banks in Thailand Google the name Rakesh Saxena and Bangkok Bank of Commerce or Finance One.

 

No one has any  angst against showing real documentation that one meets the requirements of 800K or 65K per month. Most of us have it.  I can show my Social Security Statement and  Military  VA pension and back it up  with  an extract of my US Bank Account which shows the exact amount deposited  each month and even the ATM receipts.  I don't need or want a Thai Bank Account nor does anyone else- this is the 21st Century.

 

As far as the 800K or 400K  - one should be able to show the amount  in their foreign bank account OR Thai Bank Account. The rules should say prove the income or deposits - in today's  digital community- I can get 100K each day from my bank in the US if I need it.

 

As far as the marriage extension- when one marries and brings their Thai wife to America (which I did previously) the process was to file an affidavit of support and prove one has the equivalent of $24,000 either in a bank (anywhere); a job with a verified income stream plus assets such as a house or other all adding up to the needed amount.  One entering the US my wife gets full rights and access to everything I can get.

 

In Thailand, if I extend my stay under marriage- my wifes income doesn't count; the millions invested in cars and a home asset doesn't count. I get no rights that a Thai citizen gets and I have to pay inflated prices for medical care and other  things.

 

This is hardly reciprocity or fair treatment.  We are not asking for anything extra that our own country does not provide for a Thai spouse or even anyone emigrating to our home country.

 

I enjoy Thailand and I have no issues with the Thai people but I am very disappointed  that the Thai Government cannot see the difference between law abiding  retirees and/or  married people who never break the law and  criminals who enter on visa exempt or tourist visa and set up sham businesses; scams etc all with the help of -local people .

 

While I will abide by the regulations- I will not place  800K in a Tha bank- I will transfer 65K in each month and  live with the aggravation until more reasonable minds  see the folly of what is currently being done.

[baansgr]

15 or so years ago, retirees made a large percentage of the estimated 8 million visitors a year, so on paper looked good for the economy. In today's environment of 37 million tourists, retirees are a drop in the ocean. Lets face it, Chinese tourists probably spend more in one month than the whole retired expats do in a year, any wonder changes are afoot.

[Letseng]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Is that how you want to spend your life, lazing by a pool and drinking all day?

What about when, not if, your liver gets shot? I understand medical care in Cambodia is limited.

Medical care is poor. That's why tourists get evacuated for treatment in Thailand.

Bangkok Hospital may be involved in the big private hospital in Siem Reap. Doctors are mainly Cambodian and good at making money from you.

We once lived in Siem Reap.

 

 

[Letseng]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

But the tourist visa is easier and is being extended till june for free...whats been made harder is for retirees on extensions.

What has become harder? You still need to show the same amount as before either monthly or as a lump sum. Harder is that you now need to proof you really own the money you claim to have. 

This is the result of fiddling the books in the past which many have done.

It was a matter of time until Immigration would close a loophole.

What did you expect would eventually happen?

 

 

 

[Jaggg88]

10 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Simple answer.  We do not want to take our savings which we have worked for decades to accumulate or our retired income and place it in a bank in a country that has a lack of complete deposit insurance; a country in which bank personnel  raid accounts and steal money; and a banking system that on the surface seems secure but is not.

 

You want to learn about banks in Thailand Google the name Rakesh Saxena and Bangkok Bank of Commerce or Finance One.

 

No one has any  angst against showing real documentation that one meets the requirements of 800K or 65K per month. Most of us have it.  I can show my Social Security Statement and  Military  VA pension and back it up  with  an extract of my US Bank Account which shows the exact amount deposited  each month and even the ATM receipts.  I don't need or want a Thai Bank Account nor does anyone else- this is the 21st Century.

 

As far as the 800K or 400K  - one should be able to show the amount  in their foreign bank account OR Thai Bank Account. The rules should say prove the income or deposits - in today's  digital community- I can get 100K each day from my bank in the US if I need it.

 

As far as the marriage extension- when one marries and brings their Thai wife to America (which I did previously) the process was to file an affidavit of support and prove one has the equivalent of $24,000 either in a bank (anywhere); a job with a verified income stream plus assets such as a house or other all adding up to the needed amount.  One entering the US my wife gets full rights and access to everything I can get.

 

In Thailand, if I extend my stay under marriage- my wifes income doesn't count; the millions invested in cars and a home asset doesn't count. I get no rights that a Thai citizen gets and I have to pay inflated prices for medical care and other  things.

 

This is hardly reciprocity or fair treatment.  We are not asking for anything extra that our own country does not provide for a Thai spouse or even anyone emigrating to our home country.

 

I enjoy Thailand and I have no issues with the Thai people but I am very disappointed  that the Thai Government cannot see the difference between law abiding  retirees and/or  married people who never break the law and  criminals who enter on visa exempt or tourist visa and set up sham businesses; scams etc all with the help of -local people .

 

While I will abide by the regulations- I will not place  800K in a Tha bank- I will transfer 65K in each month and  live with the aggravation until more reasonable minds  see the folly of what is currently being done.

The UK Government have very similar rules to the USA as far as foreign spouses are concerned and the same rules apply to male or female foreign spouses. I can perhaps understand the reason for rules for retirees in Thailand but those of us who are married to a Thai citizen are treated almost the same as retirees. My wife is considerably wealthy but none of her wealth is taken into account as far as my status is concerned. I have enough finances to comply with current rules when I retire next year but It all just makes me feel like an unwanted farang

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, gamini said:

Nobody is pushing foreigners out. It's just that Thailand is now trying to get it's immigration more in line with other countries. The problem is that Thailand has been for many years one of the easiest places in the world to retire. .

I don't think any country wants to have a lot of retirees with little money and not paying tax.

Also, most countries do not allow tourists to stay for more than six months.

Your claims do not make any sense at all, because in both Chiangmai and Hua Hin. More and more expatriates are coming to retire there. So much so that the immigration department. In both places have to keep moving to larger premises. 

Foreigners have abused the Thai immigration system. So much so that they are tightening the regulations. 

They welcome genuine tourists and genuine retirees. I don't know where you live or who you associate with. But I find Thailand a wonderful place with lovely, friendly people. I made the proper decisions to have enough money to retire here as I would in any other country.

Excellent post.

[baansgr]

23 minutes ago, Letseng said:

What has become harder? You still need to show the same amount as before either monthly or as a lump sum. Harder is that you now need to proof you really own the money you claim to have. 

This is the result of fiddling the books in the past which many have done.

It was a matter of time until Immigration would close a loophole.

What did you expect would eventually happen?

 

 

 

See post #44.

[kingstonkid]

5 hours ago, mike787 said:

Thailand has become the xenophobic country that surprised me. Thanks for nothing.  So much for good guys in, bad guys out.  Here goes another good guy out.

okay, I am confused.  For all those of you that are married and supporting a Thai wife and family why have you not applied for residency?

 

[Letseng]

57 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Having to leave said funds on deposit for longer and no access to half of them, plus no ince.letters for those that have genuime income, thats whats harder for many

If you have income, bring the 65thou every months. No need for a letter from an embassy or for parking a lump sum. But of course in the past some embassies issued a letter in good faith and not on proof. 

[mike787]

48 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Simple answer.  We do not want to take our savings which we have worked for decades to accumulate or our retired income and place it in a bank in a country that has a lack of complete deposit insurance; a country in which bank personnel  raid accounts and steal money; and a banking system that on the surface seems secure but is not.

 

You want to learn about banks in Thailand Google the name Rakesh Saxena and Bangkok Bank of Commerce or Finance One.

 

No one has any  angst against showing real documentation that one meets the requirements of 800K or 65K per month. Most of us have it.  I can show my Social Security Statement and  Military  VA pension and back it up  with  an extract of my US Bank Account which shows the exact amount deposited  each month and even the ATM receipts.  I don't need or want a Thai Bank Account nor does anyone else- this is the 21st Century.

 

As far as the 800K or 400K  - one should be able to show the amount  in their foreign bank account OR Thai Bank Account. The rules should say prove the income or deposits - in today's  digital community- I can get 100K each day from my bank in the US if I need it.

 

As far as the marriage extension- when one marries and brings their Thai wife to America (which I did previously) the process was to file an affidavit of support and prove one has the equivalent of $24,000 either in a bank (anywhere); a job with a verified income stream plus assets such as a house or other all adding up to the needed amount.  One entering the US my wife gets full rights and access to everything I can get.

 

In Thailand, if I extend my stay under marriage- my wifes income doesn't count; the millions invested in cars and a home asset doesn't count. I get no rights that a Thai citizen gets and I have to pay inflated prices for medical care and other  things.

 

This is hardly reciprocity or fair treatment.  We are not asking for anything extra that our own country does not provide for a Thai spouse or even anyone emigrating to our home country.

 

I enjoy Thailand and I have no issues with the Thai people but I am very disappointed  that the Thai Government cannot see the difference between law abiding  retirees and/or  married people who never break the law and  criminals who enter on visa exempt or tourist visa and set up sham businesses; scams etc all with the help of -local people .

 

While I will abide by the regulations- I will not place  800K in a Tha bank- I will transfer 65K in each month and  live with the aggravation until more reasonable minds  see the folly of what is currently being done.

I have plenty of money, but leaving 800K in a Thai bank for a visa constitutes a terrible investment and risk I am unwilling to take and unnecessary.  What purpose does it it serve to deposit that; who benefits from it, and WHY?  Have you considered to ask BJ or the Thai whoever.  What is the justification? Don't tell me its a rule/law.  I WANT/we rational. Why isn't it 1 Mil, 2 mil, or conversly 50,000, or nothing like many other countries, ie, Canada, USA, Vietnam, etc?  THINK man? THINK?

[TGIR]

Unless I'm mistaken the U.S. Government is the party that ended our income letters, not the Thai Government.  As far as being financially able to stay, nothing has changed in the 13 years I've been here.  Costs of everything seem to be about the same and the requirements are exactly the same except for the income letters.  I'm not real fond of having to park $25K in a bank here for eternity but it beats what I'd be shelling out in the States for insurance, taxes, utilities etc.  

[ExpatPH]

32 minutes ago, rascalman said:

OK I have over $4,000 monthly. I am not different than most. Obligations in home country. Please do understand. 

 

+1. 

Same my situation. Obligations in home country + premium international expat insurance 200$ a month, (and increasing yearly), these payments are deducted from my account back home monthly, before I transfer the remaining to abroad.

This is why many of us, who have more than 800.000 no longer qualify.

 

Why did it has to be a Thai bank? Mistake.

I have transcripts from local bank, that confirm I have more than 800.000

But to be forced to have it all deposited locally, never!

 

My pension letter are not issued before embassy has checked with SS back home, that my real income is way more than 800.000.

 

I'm happy I left Thailand years ago, and avoided the stress current requirements meaning for many expats in Thailand now.

The writing was on the wall for years, and I didn't hesitate to vote with my feet earlier.

 

Can't imagine Thailand will reverse this latest requirements, even if 50% of current Thai expat community moved out to another country.

I hope expats will move out in even bigger numbers. 

It's time for Thailand to realize that expats actually contributed to many working places, all over the country.

 

Chinese one week tourist can't replace all the houses, cars, tv, home furniture and more, that we the expats  purchased over many years. We have all contributed to lower unemployments numbers.

Still Chinese got their own express lanes. Expats did not.

Lack of logic, again.

 

I would return to Thailand as a expat, if immigration changed the current requirements to us expats, and removed: 

- 90 days reporting

- tm 30

- deposit in Thai bank.

- and stop never ending new requirements for the next 10 years.

 

Express lane for expats at airports.

 

Expats, retirees, older people hate stress and uncertainty.

 

Thailand got 18 million Thai baht from me.

Not anymore.

 

[Thingamabob]

Thailand's visa rules are much the same as most other countries. In fact, many other countries are far worse/more difficult. I would say that the easiest route is 800k in the bank for your extension of stay. If you don't/can't do that perhaps better not to remain here.

3 hours ago, gamini said:

Nobody is pushing foreigners out. It's just that Thailand is now trying to get it's immigration more in line with other countries. The problem is that Thailand has been for many years one of the easiest places in the world to retire. .

I don't think any country wants to have a lot of retirees with little money and not paying tax.

Also, most countries do not allow tourists to stay for more than six months.

Your claims do not make any sense at all, because in both Chiangmai and Hua Hin. More and more expatriates are coming to retire there. So much so that the immigration department. In both places have to keep moving to larger premises. 

Foreigners have abused the Thai immigration system. So much so that they are tightening the regulations. 

They welcome genuine tourists and genuine retirees. I don't know where you live or who you associate with. But I find Thailand a wonderful place with lovely, friendly people. I made the proper decisions to have enough money to retire here as I would in any other country.

Excellent post.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

While I will abide by the regulations- I will not place  800K in a Tha bank- I will transfer 65K in each month and  live with the aggravation until more reasonable minds  see the folly of what is currently being done.

I think they will.  The smart money is betting soon you will have to come up with 83K per month. 

 

Also the reason is not the Falang it is other groups of people they are trying to keep out. 

[baansgr]

21 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

okay, I am confused.  For all those of you that are married and supporting a Thai wife and family why have you not applied for residency?

 

Because a requirement is at least three continual years of a wp with tax payments, i worked here twelve years but didnt qualify as I changed companies not having a full period to show. Straight forward but not easy for most.

[HampiK]

23 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

okay, I am confused.  For all those of you that are married and supporting a Thai wife and family why have you not applied for residency?

Because without working and paying income Tax, there is no chance for a male to become residency!

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, ExpatPH said:

Can't imagine Thailand will reverse this latest requirements, even if 50% of current Thai expat community moved out to another country.

I hope expats will move out in even bigger numbers. 

It's time for Thailand to realize that expats actually contributed to many working places, all over the country.

 

Chinese one week tourist can't replace all the houses, cars, tv, home furniture and more, that we the expats  purchased over many years. We have all contributed to lower unemployments numbers.

Still Chinese got their own express lanes. Expats did not.

Lack of logic, again.

The Chinese are trying desperatly to get money out of China and are buying multi million baht condos by the bucket load so that is how they will replace the poorer expats who are afraid to open a Thai bank account. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by marcusarelus