Private hospitals overcharging ‘unreasonably’

[nickcar]

 I was very surprised to discover that a private hospital operation in New Zealand could be significantly lower than Bangkok. New Zealand about 1,300,000 Baht, Thailand about  1,700,000 Baht.  Since I am an ex  employee  of the thai hospital,  i usually get charged less than the average punter. 

[Captain 776]

I got prescription at one of the major private hospitals.........next time I was in Pharma Choice I asked if they had it and how much for 30 pills.

The hospital was 4 times the price of Pharma Choice

 

The Dermatoligist charges 1150 BHAT for office visit but my excellent Cardiologist only charges me 150 BHAT.

They are all over the board some 600 some 800 and the others as I quoted, but for these O V ....I am not complaining because in USA, it is75-150 or more and the ones that are under 100 USD you can count on one hand.

 

Overall its still better across the board.

 

Medical system is totally __________ in America.

 

If I need a Ventolin 8nhaler in Thailand, its around 250 bhat over the counter, in USA, 100-150 for the office visit just to get the prescription, then go to pharmacy and pay your 15-35 dollar co-pay depending on your insurance and wait 1-4 hrs for it to be filled or ya just come back later.

 

so compared to here.......I aint complaining

[abrahamzvi]

7 hours ago, dcnx said:

Some prices are fair but some are out of control. 

 

It seems whenever a hospital has an upgrade, it turns into a rip-off center.

Even among private hospitals in the same area there are vast difference in the price of medicines, as well as services. Without mentioning names, I do know from personal experience that the same medicine costs app. 80% more in a given private hospital than in another, and even the lower price is app. 20% higher than in most pharmacies. Some doctors fees in a given private hospital are double the charges in the other hospital.

[hansnl]

7 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

It is not just medicines that they over charge...I have learned by experience...going to clinics and several private hospitals...do not use a private hospital unless it is absolutely essential to your health...

 

Their greed knows no boundaries...privately run healthcare facilities are not a bargain... 

Comparing prices, they are now more expensive as European hospitals.

And.....they are the reason why insurance premiums go up.

And also the state hospitals feel the upward pressure.

Private profit driven healthcare is bad, very bad, for everything!

Edited April 8, 2019 by hansnl

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

 

Private hospitals are, over all, not overcharging.  If one looks at Bumrungrad shares, their dividend yield is 1.63% - about the same as cash.  They're barely making a profit.

 

Bangkok Dusit Medical Services, yields 1.28%.  Samitivej, 3.35%.  Rajthani, 3.14%.  Ramkhamhaeng, 2.04%.  BCH, 1.34%.  

 

In other words, people are getting what they're paying for.  If prices of, say, drugs were lower, then charges for something else would have to be higher to cover costs.

Dividend yield on a share has very little connection with the profitability of a hospital. The board of directors decide the payout ratio of dividends per share. One only has to look at how Rupert Murdoch rewards his shareholders to realise it's a game of pea and thimble.

[abrahamzvi]

7 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

In terms of routine care I can’t complain about the cost at a private hospital.  Usually the service is prompt and the wait time is minimal.  For comparison I recently paid over 1000 Baht for Lipid Panel and Glucose blood test.  It took one hour to get the results back.  Back in the US the cost would be much higher and the results took 2 to 3 days.  This is just my experience.  

Join the club. However, there can be no justification to the vast medicine price differences between private hospitals in the same area. Admittedly, even the most expensive Thai private hospital is by far less expensive than in the US and probably in Western Europe and other western countries.

[P Funk]

7 hours ago, See Will said:

???? 5000 baht fine. That will scare the crap out of the Hospital Managers.

 

I had to pay once 7900 baht for an UKOG Offshore Health Check in Bangkok Hospital Pattaya

and the year later (actually all following years) 3800 baht (? I am sure it was under 4000.-) in Bumrungrat Hospital in Bangkok.

 

So when 2 workers do their Offshore checks in Pattaya the 5000 Baht fine is covered and the change still covers a dinner at the Hilton Buffet @ Central Festival.. 

 

How about holding a scissor at the doctor's license if he does that again? Clip Clip, here Doctor, for the change you can buy a pa tong go shop for your future carrier. 

 

It’s not usually the doctor but rather the hospital board or corporate board that makes the pricing decisions. Time to name and shame these gougers and make laws with penalties that really hurt!

[Sheryl]

7 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

I can imagine that Bumrungrad doctors are shaking in their boots about getting a 5,000 baht fine.  They make far more than that on one overcharged prescription.  I used to be charged 77 baht per tab for Zolpidem 10 mg there.  Now I get the exact same medicine at St. Louis for 22 baht per tab.  So Bumrungrad overcharges by more than 300%.  

 

It is not the doctors who profit from the drug mark ups. Their fee is the same whether you get any meds from the hospital at all or not. The pharmacy mark ups profit the hospital's owners.

 

i am surprised they found only 200-300%, that must be for Thais. Foreigners often pay 500% plus markup.

[johnc925]

Business is about what you 'can' charge... medical practice should be about what we 'should' charge... :-/  Hope Thailand does not follow the selfish ways of America... 

[brucegoniners]

I find private hospitals fees reasonable, but drug prices are crazy. That's why I never get my meds there. I get them from outside pharmacies.

[Baerboxer]

8 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

It is not just medicines that they over charge...I have learned by experience...going to clinics and several private hospitals...do not use a private hospital unless it is absolutely essential to your health...

 

Their greed knows no boundaries...privately run healthcare facilities are not a bargain... 

 

We use a private hospital which is excellent, charges are reasonable, and we've used it for several years. 

 

I also used a skin specialist hospital that was excellent and very low cost.

 

We've only used one hospital that I'd say overcharged, and quite frankly were poor too. We only used them once and moved at their suggestion to the children's hospital who are brilliant for my disabled son.

 

There are some very expensive private hospitals depending on what you want. But there are also some that are excellent value for money.

[Peterphuket]

It is not so strange, private hospitals are big, big, business, nothing more, nothing less, 

You can rather be lucky that they still make you well, but rather it looks like a happy side effect, until you'll see the bill.

For example, when I look back about 20 years ago, the Bangkok Hospital in Phuket, then they had reasonable prices.

After the tsunami,  the prices go skyrocket high.

It is not for nothing that even in the small places you see them coming now....because low profit?

[ThaiBunny]

I always use Saint Louis in Bangkok which, although private, is run by the Catholic Church on (supposedly) a not-for-profit basis. A friend of mine goes to the leading for-profit hospital nearby, pays a significant premium over what I pay, and as far as I can tell gets the equivalent treatment. Why does he do it? He's built up confidence in the doctor who treats him

[DPKANKAN]

8 hours ago, dcnx said:

Some prices are fair but some are out of control. 

 

It seems whenever a hospital has an upgrade, it turns into a rip-off center.

Even the governmeny hospitals do. My wife's 28 year old sister was seriouslly ill with a brain tumour (and later died). One, just one, type of tablet they prescribed was 8, yes EIGHT times the cost I could buy them for in the local pharmacy. ????????????????????????

[ThaiBunny]

It's common in Malaysia too. If you visit a doctor there he will also dispense the medicine he prescribes and charge whatever he thinks is a "fair" price ie. whatever he can get away with

[abrahamzvi]

5 minutes ago, hansnl said:

Comparing prices, they are now more expensive as European hospitals.

And.....they are the reason why insurance premiums go up.

And also the state hospitals feel the upward pressure.

Private profit driven healthcare is bad, very bad, for everything!

There is nothing wrong with private hospitals making a profit, i.e. profit driven health care, PROVIDED that, as in Thailand and in most other developed countries, there is a state or semi state health service for those people who can't afford private services. However, accepting that private hospitals need to make profits, there should be a limit, considering the environments they operate in. Is, for example a Thai private hospital were to charge US prices, this would be highly exaggerated and unjustified, as the Thai costs are by far lower than in the US.

[nickcar]

 I thought it worth remarking that the private hospital I worked in in computers invested vast amounts in automation.  This is an area I was involved in and the reason is not to reduce labour but to reduce errors. For example blood test’s were the the machine prints out a report which gets typed into the medical record there are errors. When the machine  communicate  directly with the computer system   There are no errors.  Same with the pharmacy they had huge machines which would pack the medications according to instructions directly from the computer.

 

It is a fact of life where humans are concerned mistakes are made 

[Peterphuket]

12 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

I always use Saint Louis in Bangkok which, although private, is run by the Catholic Church on (supposedly) a not-for-profit basis. A friend of mine goes to the leading for-profit hospital nearby, pays a significant premium over what I pay, and as far as I can tell gets the equivalent treatment. Why does he do it? He's built up confidence in the doctor who treats him

Thanks for this advice, I'll give it a try next time, when I need an hospital.

[drummer boy]

That's  nothing compared to the hospital in pattaya momoriel pattayglang  drip I had to pay 20,000 baht for one night to treat me for a nose bleed then I had a bill for another 5,000bhat for a hospital car my friend took me in his car then I had another bill for a blood transfusion which I did not have it was only a seline drip 2,000 baht because they told me they had to go out and get it sorry forgot hambuger and fries they had to get outside 200 baht total 27,200 baht I had to find my own way home they wanted me to come back in tree days and cheak me out did not go back again beat that 8months later had infection up my nose had to go to Bangkok hospital in rayone more meds 2000 baht !

[manhood]

My german private health insurance told me that some medical services at Pattaya Bangkok Hospital are even over the top of german private hospitals. Now i do most of my health check ups and treatments back in Germany and my insurance pay all of it.

[ThaiBunny]

49 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

Thanks for this advice, I'll give it a try next time, when I need an hospital.

Outpatient clinics too

[hugh2121]

Care comes a poor second to money in private hospitals. Last year I separated two of my dogs who were fighting and I was accidentally bitten. Private hospital told me it would cost 2ooo baht to see a doctor and any treatment or drugs would be extra. I left and went to a government hospital where I was seen by a doctor, given anti tetanus and rabies vaccinations, antibiotics and vitamins to take home. Total cost 1200 baht.

[BuckBee]

Had a thai friend pay over 35K for tests at christian bkk, my sister a docter and advised them go chulla. Wrapped up at chulla for under 2K by a honest and knowledgeable doctor .

Many hospitals here just scam you for tests and want do minor surgery just for the profit so rather than few hundred baht in tablets or an injection you get milked on expensive test then have a minor surgery with icu stay for absolute no other reason than making a big bill .

 

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, BuckBee said:

Had a thai friend pay over 35K for tests at christian bkk, my sister a docter and advised them go chulla. Wrapped up at chulla for under 2K by a honest and knowledgeable doctor .

Many hospitals here just scam you for tests and want do minor surgery just for the profit so rather than few hundred baht in tablets or an injection you get milked on expensive test then have a minor surgery with icu stay for absolute no other reason than making a big bill .

I'm aware of one private hospital where they perform an MRI for almost every admission except in-grown toenail - a great money-spinner for the hospital

[BuckBee]

15 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

I'm aware of one private hospital where they perform an MRI for almost every admission except in-grown toenail - a great money-spinner for the hospital

Yeh it all made worse as doctors on percentage of what they get you spend.

Having medical professionals in family really higglights how bad it is as far more aware of extent of lies & not needed tests/treatment .

Most westerners do research or pretty much self aware before see a doctor, the thai's get totally raped. Had office worker ripped off for 80K on minor surgery that not needed as correct antibiotic coarse and bodies own healing would of dealt with issue but not same profit be made that way for the thieving hospital's .

That why I don't care when see westerners who not paid a bill, hospitals scam billions each year so tough luck on few million lost in unpaid bills ...

 

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, BuckBee said:

Most westerners do research or pretty much self aware before see a doctor, the thai's get totally raped.

There's a simple reason for that - almost every Thai I've ever had anything to do didn't have the faintest idea about human anatomy; it's simply not taught in most schools.  Therefore they'll believe whatever a doctor tells them, and the Thais also believe there's a pill for everything and the doctors are only too happy to pander to their ignorance

[Caldera]

Dear private hospitals, please overcharge "reasonably". You have been very naughty.

[ebean001]

the price at RAM in chiang mai has gone up significantly. the last time my daughter was there for 2 nights with a cough. When we left, they had 11 drugs in a basket for her to buy. Each one said...take before breakfast. I asked the 4 nurses...would you give all of these drugs to your daughter before breakfast.

The response...NONE of course. then a nurse said...that is what the doctor ordered. Hummmm. Not much of a nurse. No push back. Just plain greedy for money people. I bought 0 drugs from them. I am upset I did not keep the bill for proof.

2 nights was 51,000b with a cough.

[Pilotman]

4 hours ago, JoePai said:

Boys and girls calm down, let the private hospitals charge what they want, there are Government run hospitals everyone can use (yes even foreigners for those who do not know) so just what is the problem?

Don’t use private hospitals as there is a (far cheaper and just as good) alternative.

 

because the same crap doctors work in both.  It may be cheaper, but it is rarely any better medical treatment.  

[scorecard]

10 hours ago, DogNo1 said:

I can imagine that Bumrungrad doctors are shaking in their boots about getting a 5,000 baht fine.  They make far more than that on one overcharged prescription.  I used to be charged 77 baht per tab for Zolpidem 10 mg there.  Now I get the exact same medicine at St. Louis for 22 baht per tab.  So Bumrungrad overcharges by more than 300%.  

I doubt the doctors are shaking in their boots, they don't personally fix the charges or the policies about charging, nor is the billing a transaction between the specific doctor any you - it's a transaction between the hospital owner and you.

 

And your probably correct, they will keep excessively charging until the laws are changed and the punishment / fines do really hurt.