Went to the waterfalls for Songkran but only Thais get in free, not foreigners.

[pubboy]

Not that long ago if you could prove you were a long term stayer ( full thai driving license) you could get into national parks, etc for Thai price. That was all stopped by the incumbent government 

[Olmate]

7 hours ago, olfu said:

when I, as farang, claim I am poor people laugh at me.

Me too but it is laughable .16 pages of mainly cheap farang rants about equality are the result of this done to death topic. To the OP tell us how did you spend your New Year after all that drama

[Kieran00001]

4 minutes ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

I pay tax every month through my company, as do many other foreigners I know that live here.

 

Your above statement is a fallacy.

 

If you stay 5 years of less you can claim all your income tax back, it is not a fallacy that foreigners pay hardly any income tax.  Anyway, this is not about who has already and will continue to contribute, this is about a way for the parks to raise much needed funds without excluding poorer locals.  What can they do, if they give us the cheaper rate then have less funds and if they up the prices for Thai's then they exclude some local people, I have respect for the people and the environment of the country I have chosen to live in, so personally I am proud to make my contributions to the parks.

[Kieran00001]

5 minutes ago, pubboy said:

Not that long ago if you could prove you were a long term stayer ( full thai driving license) you could get into national parks, etc for Thai price. That was all stopped by the incumbent government 

 

But it wasn't stopped, it was clarified and the current policy is that it is up to the discretion of the park warden, I and several other posters have been given the Thai rate, something perhaps linked to not being irate at the gate.

[Kieran00001]

10 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Well, his wife didn't let him pay. So two options: The family goes to the waterfalls and husband sit "with a bottle" or all of them goes back home or somewhere else.

 

As a man I can see a third option, which is not to be under the 100% control of the wife.

[Despondent Foreigner]

2 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 What can they do

They can start by charging everyone, regardless of nationality, the same price to enter.

 

That would be a great start in my book.

[Kieran00001]

14 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

A great post above in the US if any business was publicly charging more for visitors because they were not Citizens, people would be really outraged!

 

Nothing to do with citizens, you need to have residency.  It is perfectly legal in the US to provide discounts for residents, Disney etc do just that, so your claim is demonstratively false.

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

They can start by charging everyone, regardless of nationality, the same price to enter.

 

That would be a great start in my book.

 

So which do you want, the prices to be upped for all and some Thai's be priced out, or the prices to be lowered for all and the parks get less funding?

[Despondent Foreigner]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

So which do you want, the prices to be upped for all and some Thai's be priced out, or the prices to be lowered for all and the parks get less funding?

The setting of price is up to the government or whatever body sets the prices, not me. If its 20 baht for all, OK. If it's 200 baht for all then so be it. Point is, one price for all people. Thai, British, American, Danish, Syrian, Tongan. Everyone should pay the same.

[Kieran00001]

7 hours ago, wilcopops said:

It's important to understand that this isn't a race thing, it is a result of blinkered and parochial pouches adopted by uneducated Thai officials who don't understand how to promote Thailand's natural resources.

The whole situation with National parks, waterfalls etc s that they are terribly managed and poorly funded, the practice of 2-tier charging is the kind of nape-of-the-neck thinking that people have in an effort to raise money....the truth is it does NOTHING to help park finances and only stirs up bad feeling in visitors.

 

A report (Japanese, I recall) about 10/15 years ago pointed out that apart from a few maritime parks the dual charging system does nothing to improve income to the parks and also pointed out the Thai visitors to most NPs were capable and prepared to pay a little more and having a single rate fee, this  would increase the numbers of foreigners visiting waterfalls and National Parks and improve finances.

 

Unfortunately the policies of the DNP are old, outdated and not in keeping with modern international methodologies for the management of Parks and other natural resources,

 

(race has nothing to do with it - that is the territory of racists, who are always the first to cy "racism!" themselves)>

 

What DNP policies are old, outdated and not in keeping with modern international methodologies for the management of Parks and other natural resources?  Please inform us as the likes of WWF keep telling us that Thailand is leading S.E.Asia and is the model to follow.

 

To be honest, I have only asked you for a laugh, you also claimed that upping the prices did nothing for park finances, and of course you only have to look at the raise in park budget since the 1998 fee increases to see you're talking out your backside.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Kieran00001

[Kieran00001]

6 minutes ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

The setting of price is up to the government or whatever body sets the prices, not me. If its 20 baht for all, OK. If it's 200 baht for all then so be it. Point is, one price for all people. Thai, British, American, Danish, Syrian, Tongan. Everyone should pay the same.

 

You want the prices adjusted, tell me which way you think would be best for Thailand, to up the Thai price or to lower the foreigner price.

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

They can start by charging everyone, regardless of nationality, the same price to enter.

 

That would be a great start in my book.

When the globalists take over the world they will.  Now, citizens in every country get breaks and perks that non citizens don't get.  All in all I think I get treated better than Thai citizens for pay and deference and in life in general so I stay. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Jazz5555]

24 minutes ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

I pay tax every month through my company, as do many other foreigners I know that live here.

 

Your above statement is a complete fallacy.

Dont like the rules leave the game, if you are running a company I am sure you can afford it, 

[Despondent Foreigner]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You want the prices adjusted, tell me which way you think would be best for Thailand, to up the Thai price or to lower the foreigner price.

Can you grasp a one price for all idea?

 

No foreigner price, no thai price. 

 

Just one universal human price.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Despondent Foreigner

[wilcopops]

The principal is that Thais should pay as little as possible to enjoy their own national heritage.

ALL other nationalities have to pay...there may be exceptions for ASEAN, I don't know.

 

THE PROBLEM with this is that it is illogical and out of step with many other countries who these days charge the same basic rate for nationals and visitors a like.

The norm is for countries to give DISCOUNTS to certain deserving groups. E.g. hose living locally, senior citizens, students, minors etc etc.

Funding for Thailand's national parks is a mess.  Though the number of National Parks has been increasing the funding simply has not kept up. Staff are paid a pittance and eco-development is virtually zero. The entrance fees are alloted as collected to each park and consequently in most cases make a miserable contribution to running and maintaining a place.

Anyone whose has ever run an attraction like a park museum etc will know that the entrance fees are not the way to raise money. If they are too high, people turn away ...... if they are low or even FREE then people will come.....foreign tourists included. Once you have "bums on seats" THEN you create a value-added experience .... food tours camping souvenirs all can generate income and managed properly to protect the environment help to create a better experience and park for all.

 

Apart from a couple of marine parks and possibly Khao Yai, relatively few foreigners visit Thailand's National Parks and Wildlife Sanctuaries ... these places are potentially some of the best pristine or near pristine forests left in S.E.Asia.

They need conserving and poor management and lack of government funding combine to keep Thailand's national resources constantly under threat.

[marcusarelus]

Just now, Despondent Foreigner said:

Can you grasp a one price for all idea?

 

No foreigner price, no thai price. 

 

One, universal human price.

It is a globalist idea like the EU.  On the outs this year. 

[wilcopops]

Following the belief that this policy is racist is a failure to identify the problem correctly and there puts one in a position off being both unable to understand it or any possible solution.

A trait that often identifies racists is that they constantly accuse the others of being racist towards themselves and arguing that things that blatantly are racist aren't

[Kieran00001]

5 minutes ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

Can you grasp a one price for all idea?

 

No foreigner price, no thai price. 

 

Just one universal human price.

 

No one is failing to understand what you are suggesting, I just seek clarification, would you like to see Thai's pay more for their tickets of foreigners pay less, or perhaps us to meet in the middle?

[wilcopops]

13 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You want the prices adjusted, tell me which way you think would be best for Thailand, to up the Thai price or to lower the foreigner price.

I mentioned this earlier. It has been shown that Thais would pay more to enter National Parks. About twice what they pay now. There also needs to be NO BLANKET FEE, and parks should be allowed to set fees according to potential visitor attractiveness and what's on offer. A single rate for Thais and foreigners would make the parks more attractive to foreigners too thus increasing numbers and once inside, income

As also pointed out, different rates around the world are in general not SURCHARGES but DISCOUNTS for selected groups to improve access, increase numbers or recognise repeated visits.

Edited April 15, 2019 by wilcopops

[Date Masamune]

 
If you stay 5 years of less you can claim all your income tax back, it is not a fallacy that foreigners pay hardly any income tax.  Anyway, this is not about who has already and will continue to contribute, this is about a way for the parks to raise much needed funds without excluding poorer locals.  What can they do, if they give us the cheaper rate then have less funds and if they up the prices for Thai's then they exclude some local people, I have respect for the people and the environment of the country I have chosen to live in, so personally I am proud to make my contributions to the parks.

It is a good argument about NPs but does 10x Thai price actually raise revenues when so many stay away? Give a waiver to indigent Thais and charge the HiSos “Farang Price” also then.

[wilcopops]

14 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

When the globalists take over the world they will.  Now, citizens in every country get breaks and perks that non citizens don't get.  All in all I think I get treated better than Thai citizens for pay and deference and in life in general so I stay. 

Possibly the. Most ill-informed, facile post on the thread

[Kieran00001]

9 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

The principal is that Thais should pay as little as possible to enjoy their own national heritage.

ALL other nationalities have to pay...there may be exceptions for ASEAN, I don't know.

 

THE PROBLEM with this is that it is illogical and out of step with many other countries who these days charge the same basic rate for nationals and visitors a like.

The norm is for countries to give DISCOUNTS to certain deserving groups. E.g. hose living locally, senior citizens, students, minors etc etc.

Funding for Thailand's national parks is a mess.  Though the number of National Parks has been increasing the funding simply has not kept up. Staff are paid a pittance and eco-development is virtually zero. The entrance fees are alloted as collected to each park and consequently in most cases make a miserable contribution to running and maintaining a place.

Anyone whose has ever run an attraction like a park museum etc will know that the entrance fees are not the way to raise money. If they are too high, people turn away ...... if they are low or even FREE then people will come.....foreign tourists included. Once you have "bums on seats" THEN you create a value-added experience .... food tours camping souvenirs all can generate income and managed properly to protect the environment help to create a better experience and park for all.

 

Apart from a couple of marine parks and possibly Khao Yai, relatively few foreigners visit Thailand's National Parks and Wildlife Sanctuaries ... these places are potentially some of the best pristine or near pristine forests left in S.E.Asia.

They need conserving and poor management and lack of government funding combine to keep Thailand's national resources constantly under threat.

 

Thailand's national parks are doing better than any in S.E.Asia, the reason they have gone the route of linking up the migration corridor and keeping human access very limited, rather than the route of many other countries of large scale eco-tourism development, is that they are protecting the habitat of tigers and elephants, neither of which coincide well with humans anyway, and which require massive areas, loggers will access wherever their is infrastructure that permits them, its fundamentally important in Thailand to prevent access to allow the forests time to recover.  And they are protecting them reasonably well these days.  In the late 90's, before they started adjusting park fees, poaching and logging were set to see complete deforestation and large scale extinctions imminently, now the forests are growing again and Thailand has the only growing tiger population in the region.

[wilcopops]

5 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

this is about a way for the parks to raise much needed funds without excluding poorer locals

Which has been demonstrated to be utterly ineffective way of funding a park.

Many countries national heritage attractions museums parks etc are FREE to nationals and foreigners alike as the benefits are seen to come with the numbers of visitors extra spending not by charging them. The contribution that entrance fees make to most national parks is minimal.

Edited April 15, 2019 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

23 minutes ago, Jazz5555 said:

Dont like the rules leave the game, if you are running a company I am sure you can afford it, 

Do you realise that you statement isn't actually an argument at all? It's just a very old misused fallacy, the "if you don't like it go home" cliche. Frankly I'm surprised you have run out of real argument and resorted to this kind of thing.

Edited April 15, 2019 by wilcopops

[Despondent Foreigner]

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

they are protecting the habitat of tigers and elephants

Just for the record some organizations also drug tigers and beat elephants with pickaxes.

 

Don't even get me started on the monkeys and crocodiles. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Despondent Foreigner

[Kieran00001]

6 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

I mentioned this earlier. It has been shown that Thais would pay more to enter National Parks. About twice what they pay now. There also needs to be NO BLANKET FEE, and parks should be allowed to set fees according to potential visitor attractiveness and what's on offer. A single rate for Thais and foreigners would make the parks more attractive to foreigners too thus increasing numbers and once inside, income

As also pointed out, different rates around the world are in general not SURCHARGES but DISCOUNTS for selected groups to improve access, increase numbers or recognise repeated visits.

 

I have no doubt that the parks could raise more funds through charging Thai people more, the majority of visitors are affluent, however it would exclude some poorer Thai's.

 

I don't know what blanket fee you are talking about, there isn't one.  They all charge differen't amounts and 90% of them are free.

 

The lower rate for Thai's is a discount for locals exactly the same as a state resident discount in the US, you support that right?

 

The dual pricing only makes it unattractive to a very small minority of foreigners, having a single price would make no noticeable difference, the vast majority of visitors are Thai.

[Kieran00001]

5 minutes ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

Just for the record some organizations also drug tigers and beat elephants with pickaxes.

 

Don't even get me started on the monkeys and crocodiles. 

 

What sort of avant-guard record keeping is this?

[wilcopops]

41 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

What DNP policies are old, outdated and not in keeping with modern international methodologies for the management of Parks and other natural resources?  Please inform us as the likes of WWF keep telling us that Thailand is leading S.E.Asia and is the model to follow.

 

To be honest, I have only asked you for a laugh, you also claimed that upping the prices did nothing for park finances, and of course you only have to look at the raise in park budget since the 1998 fee increases to see you're talking out your backside.

You are completely misinformed...in fact you appear to be making it up by yourself.

You obviously have completely misunderstood what WWF  have said...they are talking about the resources themselves not the management thereof.

I have made it quite clear about how management is outdated too.

As far as I can see you are simply gainsaying with no real point to make

[Celer et Audax]

I too am against it. 
 
I think it was originally intended for the bus loads of foreign tourists that come here on vacation.
 
Who's to say that the cashier(s) are being honest and not just pocketing the extra money?
 
When I enter places like Phu Rua or other national parks I am charged 10 times what my wife is charged (200 baht vs 20 baht or 400 vs 40 etc).  Who's to say that the cashiers don't just ring up an entry for two Thai nationals and then pocket the extra "falang" money?
 
Could be a good racket for dishonest cashier(s) in my opinion and should be discontinued for folks living here (with a Thai driving license) and especially for those with a Thai wife and kids (as they have a family to support).
 
How do those children feel growing up knowing that their Daddy (or Mommy) has to pay 10x extra to get in just because he was born in another country?
 
I'd feel better paying the same entry fee but later dropping some cash into a donation bin (for upkeep and maintenance of the park) hoping that the money is not pilfered by unscrupulous individuals.  I'd personally drop more into the park donation bin than they get out of my 10x farang entry fee.
 
 

Why do you assume the difference is pocketed?
When ever I have entered a NP with my girlfriend I have received a ticket which clearly shows I have paid the non Thai price and she received tickets showing the Thai price paid


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Date Masamune]

Which has been demonstrated to be utterly ineffective way of funding a park.

Many countries national heritage attractions museums parks etc are FREE to nationals and foreigners alike as the benefits are seen to come with the numbers of visitors extra spending not by charging them. The contribution that entrance fees make to most national parks is minimal.

I wouldn’t know where I’m from we have unlimited resources for Military, Police and surveillance but State and National Parks are funded mostly by high user fees.