Went to the waterfalls for Songkran but only Thais get in free, not foreigners.

[marcusarelus]

31 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

Possibly the. Most ill-informed, facile post on the thread

I get paid more for doing the same job as a Thai because I'm a Farang.  KTB bank guard made a middle aged Thai man get out of his seat so I could sit down and wait for service.  Going to a Song Kran party this afternoon where they will prepare special food for me and have a special chair for me and everyone will make sure I'm having fun.  I guess you flamed me because you could not think of a response eh? 

[Kieran00001]

10 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

You are completely misinformed...in fact you appear to be making it up by yourself.

You obviously have completely misunderstood what WWF  have said...they are talking about the resources themselves not the management thereof.

I have made it quite clear about how management is outdated too.

As far as I can see you are simply gainsaying with no real point to make

 

So tell us, just how is that the resources increased to praiseworthy levels without management being worthy of that praise?

[Despondent Foreigner]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

  Going to a Song Kran party this afternoon where they will prepare special food for me and have a special chair for me

Will they be serving you caviar on a golden stool?

Edited April 15, 2019 by Despondent Foreigner

[jackdd]

51 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

I have no doubt that the parks could raise more funds through charging Thai people more, the majority of visitors are affluent, however it would exclude some poorer Thai's.

When looking at the majority of national parks probably less than 1% of visitors are foreigners. If they increased the price for a ticket by 5 THB and charged everybody the same price they would get way more money than by charging foreigners 10 times the Thai price. Having to pay 20 THB more for a family trip would not stop any Thai from visiting a national park.

[Mister Fixit]

23 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

You think discounts for locals don't exist in the UK, have us visited stonehenge recently?

Well I went there last year and saw no discounts for locals and I'm British.

 

In fact I thought it was so damn expensive I turned round and went to Silbury Hill and West Kennet Long Barrow for free.  

[Mister Fixit]

29 minutes ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

Will they be serving you caviar on a golden stool?

Yeah, and there's more than one meaning to the word 'stool' as well.  

[stevenl]

16 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Doesn't matter-and you know it.How many times must this be discussed?

 

Total denial.

Au contraire, this is the crux of the issue. People living here pay Thai prices, tourists prices for foreigners. And with the OP refusing to answer I see only 1 possibility: he did not try to enter with Thai DL or similar.

 

So sorry, IMO he should be paying more than people living here.

Edited April 15, 2019 by stevenl

[Olmate]

31 minutes ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

Will they be serving you caviar on a golden stool?

I think your glory day is over.????

[Kieran00001]

32 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

Which has been demonstrated to be utterly ineffective way of funding a park.

Many countries national heritage attractions museums parks etc are FREE to nationals and foreigners alike as the benefits are seen to come with the numbers of visitors extra spending not by charging them. The contribution that entrance fees make to most national parks is minimal.

 

There are over 100 free national parks in Thailand, to visit and camp, they get visited mainly by local people and there is rarely something for sale because the visitors are sporadic and that is because they often just have one place of interest such as a waterfall within a substantial area, and sometimes nothing or much interest, but they are an essential part of the migration corridor none the less.  There is little scope for development in these places and they don't want it anyway, they just want an easily and cheaply protected forest, which means little to no access. 

 

Then there are the parks which charge, about 20 of them, about half of which are mainly visited by foreigners, they have more attractions and they do have things for sale and raise funds that way as well, they have bungalow and tent rental, guides, safaris, all sorts to help raise the funds to pay for the free parks and to keep all parks cheap for all Thai people.  Charging foreigners more has not seen foreigner visitor numbers decrease, tourist visitors at the most expensive parks has doubled in the past 10 years and bring in 3 billion baht in tickets while at the same parks Thai's bring in about 600 million in tickets.  They both probably spend similar amounts once inside and by giving Thai's a 90% discount it allows local poor people to appreciate their own park while also getting some good funding in off all foreign visitors even when they bring everything with them from Big-C.

 

Some of these most popular parks are already limiting capacity to protect them, as although iconic, many of these parks are not very big, they cannot simply further exploit those ones, and as previously mentioned, many of the free parks are not suitable for tourist development of any kind, so what is your suggestion?

[Kieran00001]

14 minutes ago, jackdd said:

When looking at the majority of national parks probably less than 1% of visitors are foreigners. If they increased the price for a ticket by 5 THB and charged everybody the same price they would get way more money than by charging foreigners 10 times the Thai price. Having to pay 20 THB more for a family trip would not stop any Thai from visiting a national park.

 

At the fee paying parks 2/3 are Thai and 1/3 foreigner, currently it brings in 3 billion from foreigners and 600 million from Thais.  If they increased the Thai price by 5 baht and reduced the foreigner price to the same they would bring in 330 million from foreigners and 660 million from Thais, that's over 2.5 billion baht loss.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Kieran00001

[jackdd]

8 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

At the fee paying parks 2/3 are Thai and 1/3 foreigner, currently it brings in 3 billion from foreigners and 600 million from Thais.  If they increased the Thai price by 5 baht and reduced the foreigner price to the same they would bring in 330 million from foreigners and 660 million from Thais, that's over 2.5 billion baht loss. 

Source?

When i visit a national park many times i don't see any other foreigner, and never more than a handful, but i see hundreds of Thais. At Phuket the ratio might be different, but for sure not 1/3 foreigners when counting all over Thailand.

In this article from 5 years ago they said the number of foreigners has declined https://www.thephuketnews.com/tax-paying-foreigners-not-entitled-to-local-price-at-national-parks-50333.php#OFAYZJxaGFBvJpCo.97

[sammieuk1]

17 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Au contraire, this is the crux of the issue. People living here pay Thai prices, tourists prices for foreigners. And with the OP refusing to answer I see only 1 possibility: he did not try to enter with Thai DL or similar.

 

So sorry, IMO he should be paying more than people living here.

You mean like also paying over inflated hospital prices because you live here or are you against that????

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, sammieuk1 said:

You mean like also paying over inflated hospital prices because you live here or are you against that????

No idea what you're talking about, is there a difference in hospital prices between tourists and people living here?

 

But isn't this thread about national parks, where people living here will pay less than people who don't live here.

[luis888]

On 4/14/2019 at 5:24 AM, Pilotman said:

I dont have a problem with differential charging at attractions and venues here.  The way I see it, my disposal income is probably higher than the average Thai families, it's their country not mine, so I pay a little more to access them.  Having said that, many, especially around the tourist spots of Pattaya and Phuket,  are not worth the money anyway, which is a different argument.   

Absolute bullshit, so in your theory, because you have more money than the Thais it's fine to pay more, so you should pay more for everything. You should pay double or 10 times more when you go to Big C, Tesco,  the cinema, put fuel in your vehicle,  etc. Wake up and smell the roses, oh, sorry, you can't,  because the smell of the bullshit you just spoke is so strong you can't smell anything. Wake up people, dual pricing is wrong. Full stop. 

[sammieuk1]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

No idea what you're talking about, is there a difference in hospital prices between tourists and people living here?

 

But isn't this thread about national parks, where people living here will pay less than people who don't live here.

That appears like two of us with no idea????

[Kieran00001]

15 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Source?

When i visit a national park many times i don't see any other foreigner, and never more than a handful, but i see hundreds of Thais. At Phuket the ratio might be different, but for sure not 1/3 foreigners when counting all over Thailand.

In this article from 5 years ago they said the number of foreigners has declined https://www.thephuketnews.com/tax-paying-foreigners-not-entitled-to-local-price-at-national-parks-50333.php#OFAYZJxaGFBvJpCo.97

 

Quote

During the same period, the country saw the number of visitors at iconic national parks soaring, from 11 million in 2013 to 18.7 million last year, with foreign tourists accounting for almost one-third, around six million visits.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/big_read/30359219

[Pilotman]

16 minutes ago, luis888 said:

Absolute bullshit, so in your theory, because you have more money than the Thais it's fine to pay more, so you should pay more for everything. You should pay double or 10 times more when you go to Big C, Tesco,  the cinema, put fuel in your vehicle,  etc. Wake up and smell the roses, oh, sorry, you can't,  because the smell of the bullshit you just spoke is so strong you can't smell anything. Wake up people, dual pricing is wrong. Full stop. 

No need for that old son. Mine is an opinion, yours is a stupid, mindless,  insulting rant. 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Despondent Foreigner said:

Will they be serving you caviar on a golden stool?

Funny you should mention that.  Do you want a photo of the leather stool too?

[Kieran00001]

19 minutes ago, luis888 said:

Absolute bullshit, so in your theory, because you have more money than the Thais it's fine to pay more, so you should pay more for everything. You should pay double or 10 times more when you go to Big C, Tesco,  the cinema, put fuel in your vehicle,  etc. Wake up and smell the roses, oh, sorry, you can't,  because the smell of the bullshit you just spoke is so strong you can't smell anything. Wake up people, dual pricing is wrong. Full stop. 

 

But what would you replace it with?  Would you increase the Thai fee just to make you feel better but in doing so also price out the poorest local people?  Or would you reduce the foreigner fee and lose the billions of baht it has been raising, protecting an additional 4.5 million rai last year alone?

Edited April 15, 2019 by Kieran00001

[Seismic]

On 4/14/2019 at 10:29 AM, ChipButty said:

For the 20 years Ive been here it's always been the same and I have been to that very same waterfall

For the 40 years I have been here, it has not always been the same, do you know when and why it changed ?

 

[wilcopops]

increase in numbers does not on it's own signify anything positive - as these numbers have to be  managed. The truth is that the parks are not in a position to increase numbers - without serious rethinking by management before serious damage to the environment occurs. This again is only partly addressed by the fees - the government - always happy to open new parks must come up with sufficient funding - it's no good opening a park and then saying sort the cash out yourself - it doesn't work especially in the inept and corrupt world of the authorities here.

Because of the extra parks, in real terms funding is actually reduced.

[Seismic]

15 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

No need for that old son. Mine is an opinion, yours is a stupid, mindless,  insulting rant. 

I agree with luis888, how about you pay 10X for your groceries too !!

[wilcopops]

13 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

would you reduce the foreigner fee and lose the billions of baht it has been raising, protecting an additional 4.5 million rai last year alone

this is grossly misleading, it hasn't raise "extra" money, it has raised money despite the situation. If a single fee for each facility was introduced the money raised would go much further and as a percentage of funding it is insufficient.

 

the main money is also raised by just a few parks - e.g the maritime parks in the South which have millions of visitors - the money is not shared out equitably and again management makes no good use of the money as seen by the damage sustained by these parks.

[Pilotman]

2 minutes ago, Seismic said:

I agree with luis888, how about you pay 10X for your groceries too !!

If you can't see the difference between acceptable differential pricing at a tourist attraction and the weekly shopping bill, I fear for your sanity and your sense of logic. Then again, logic and coherent debate rarely have any place in many TV posts.  

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

this is grossly misleading, it hasn't raise "extra" money, it has raised money despite the situation. If a single fee for each facility was introduced the money raised would go much further and as a percentage of funding it is insufficient.

 

the main money is also raised by just a few parks - e.g the maritime parks in the South which have millions of visitors - the money is not shared out equitably and again management makes no good use of the money as seen by the damage sustained by these parks.

"management makes no good use of the money as seen by the damage sustained by these parks."

There been a real change in the past years. The money from these marine parks is used to protect the marine life, and the general situation has improved considerably.

[donim]

41 minutes ago, jackdd said:

In this article from 5 years ago they said the number of foreigners has declined

 

 

The Chief of Tourism Promotion office of the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation, Wanlapha Yuttiwong :

•     She insisted, stipulate that foreigners, regardless of their official status in Thailand, are obliged to pay the foreign price.
•     Foreigners even do not qualify for free entry if under 3 or over 60 years of age.

 

•     Asked why she thought the fees were so high, Ms Wanlapha remarked “We don’t get enough budget from the government to maintain the parks, and lately the number of foreign visitors to national parks has declined.”

And no wondering why?

[wilcopops]

56 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

At the fee paying parks 2/3 are Thai and 1/3 foreigner, currently it brings in 3 billion from foreigners and 600 million from Thais.  If they increased the Thai price by 5 baht and reduced the foreigner price to the same they would bring in 330 million from foreigners and 660 million from Thais, that's over 2.5 billion baht loss.

Again more nonsense - you have not read anything to suggest this as the maths is just not that simple - if the fees are unified, foreign visitor numbers will increase and as said added value activities once in the parks also increases income - but you have chosen to ignore changes in numbers as well as the amount of funding in proportion the games from government. 

The change required is not just a simple scrapping of the fees for foreigners - (you also need to identify who they are BTW) - it is a total shake up of how the parks are maned with an eye to increased usage accompanied by appropriate conservation safeguards. The amount of foreign tourists who visit national parks outside the "iconic" money-spinners is incredibly small - there are a vast national recsources that at present is at best ignored and even worse abused.......... they get nothing from tours of Phi-Phi etc but they have a lot to offer and with the archaic dual pricing system and management in place no progress cam be made and it is very likely a lot of these natural resources will be diminished or even destroyed.

[wreckingcountry]

That’s called “rational thinking “! Dont expect that in the country


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Kieran00001]

9 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

this is grossly misleading, it hasn't raise "extra" money, it has raised money despite the situation. If a single fee for each facility was introduced the money raised would go much further and as a percentage of funding it is insufficient.

 

the main money is also raised by just a few parks - e.g the maritime parks in the South which have millions of visitors - the money is not shared out equitably and again management makes no good use of the money as seen by the damage sustained by these parks.

 

The parks have seen foreign visitor numbers increase in line with overall tourist numbers, what is misleading?  What fee would you introduce?  Would you increase the Thai fee?  Would you introduce fees at the currently free parks?  The money is shared out, the free parks don't have any income, and the good use is evident in the fact that they have protected the tiger and elephant populations to the point that they are increasing for the first time in a long time.  I can't see what you ask me to, what I see is them sacrificing small amounts of land in sites which happen to be particularly beautiful to protect massive areas of land which are particularly bio-diverse, that would be evidence to the contrary to that which you claim, that is good use of the money.

 

[donim]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Au contraire, this is the crux of the issue. People living here pay Thai prices, tourists prices for foreigners. And with the OP refusing to answer I see only 1 possibility: he did not try to enter with Thai DL or similar.

 

So sorry, IMO he should be paying more than people living here.

 

 

So it is.

 

My parents from the west visiting me, I we go to a park.

I order two thai rate tickets and two foreigner rate ticket.

For my missus, me and my parents.

Face behind the glass in the booth look at me, two?

Yes, I said, my parents are visiting Thailand.

I getting ready to grab my Thai DL or similar, keeping in my pocket

After mumbling to her/himself and staring to the glass.

Two thai rate tickets and two foreign rate ticket are put down under the glass

 

Would I show up without my parents...