Do you believe in God and why

[Centra]

On 6/19/2019 at 11:51 PM, VincentRJ said:

Perhaps I can help you understand the situation. As a prince, or at least the son of a major warrior chieftain, Gautama was in a very privileged environment, living in a guarded palace with lots of servants and workers taking care of all chores.

 

Leaving his wife and child would presumably have had an emotional effect on his wife, but not directly on the child who was too young to have any conception of a father. Both of them would have been fully taken care of, despite the temporary absence of the husband for a period of 6 years.

 

My own father was also absent for the first 3 to 4 years of my life, because he was a soldier in WWII. I was born in 1942. I have no memory of his absence. My first memories begin from the age of around 4, or maybe 3 & 1/2.

 

If you've ever traveled abroad to significantly undeveloped countries, you should have been emotionally affected by the suffering of homeless, sick and deformed people, often sitting, lying down, and sleeping by the road-side in the most awful conditions.

 

During the times of the Buddha, about 2,500 years ago in India, one can only imagine how awful conditions must have been for so many poor and underprivileged people, without the benefit of modern medication, painkillers, anesthetics, and surgery.

 

That someone from a protected and privileged environment would voluntarily leave that environment (palace) in order to find a solution to the awful suffering he had witnessed outside of the palace, is very commendable and very unselfish.

 

Unfortunately, there are no written scripts from those times. Everything was transmitted through memory. The following story of events, from the book "Old Path White Clouds" by Thich Nhat Hanh, reads like a reasonable re-creation of what could have happened.
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Gautam-Buddha-leave-his-wife-only-after-one-night

 

"In short - Siddhartha was disgusted by the corruption, thirst of power, selfish ambitions and jealousy among people in politics. He was aware that true liberation from suffering won't come from mere social works and changing social rules, but from inner transformation of individuals. And he wanted to find a way which can give true liberation to people."

 

Read the 'long story' for more details. 

Bullshit he desert his family and responsibilities, he wandered around country side with servants till they got the shits and went home. He then was begging food, then laying under a tree while hallucinating from starvation started sprouting words of wisdom and people stated following him around like a flock of sheep. But just let as say it happen this way,  In name of B or in the name of god or Jesus said is true because people hundreds years after they died wrote it down. Record history has been proven wrong so many times.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Centra
spelling

[notmyself]

5 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

There are many things that exist only in our imagination, but quite clearly we all admit that they exist in our imagination, or perhaps in your imagination, not mine, or perhaps only in someone else’s Imagination.  But nevertheless, we cannot deny that they exist there.

 

Quite.

 

[notmyself]

On 6/21/2019 at 5:08 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

and those 2 ( or more ) things are?

 

Could be anything really … such as raining for example. The logic I'm referencing is that it would mean it is both raining and not raining at a secret location whilst 'I don't know' would be honest. 

[Skeptic7]

13 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

There are many things that exist only in our imagination, but quite clearly we all admit that they exist in our imagination, or perhaps in your imagination, not mine, or perhaps only in someone else’s Imagination.  But nevertheless, we cannot deny that they exist there.

Nonsense imagined upstairs and being pulled out of "downstairs and around back" as serious, serve no meaningful purpose. That's being delusional. 

 

One can imagine a billion dollars, but can't spend it, nor pull it out of rear end. One can imagine one can fly, but a sane person ain't gonna flap their arms off the Baiyoke Tower to test it out. 

[jimmyyy]

On 6/17/2019 at 11:40 AM, sweatalot said:

did it ever come to your mind that the "higher purpose" might not have come from God - but from you? Subconscious, superconscious ... whatever

nope, it was god, i saw it.

[jimmyyy]

On 6/17/2019 at 2:59 PM, Nemises said:

I survived the tsunami (Patong Beach) and the families with children, sitting on the beach chairs either side of me, unfortunately didn’t. If there’s a God I really think he would saved those children instead of a non-believer. (RIP to them).

Don't know you would need to ask god why he did it. 

On 6/17/2019 at 4:44 PM, Skeptic7 said:

Share your best one. The most convincing one and I'm sure it will seem very natural and mundane to us and totally explainable and not a miracle at all. 

I have no need of entertaining you, we are discussing god here. 

[StreetCowboy]

11 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

 

Nonsense imagined upstairs and being pulled out of "downstairs and around back" as serious, serve no meaningful purpose. That's being delusional. 

 

One can imagine a billion dollars, but can't spend it, nor pull it out of rear end. One can imagine one can fly, but a sane person ain't gonna flap their arms off the Baiyoke Tower to test it out. 

So what's your view on courage in the face of adversity, generosity, love for your fellow man, villanous chicanery?

 

Do they exist?  Can you show me them on a map or a telescope or an oscilloscope?

 

There are plenty of things that exist in the hearts of men that shape our society, and if you believe that God is not one of them, then you are unlikely to understand people.

 

[user68677878]

What is God? Are we talking about an all-powerful creator of the universe who can do no wrong (after all, it’s his universe)? He is dead, according to Nietzsche. The universe never needed one, according to Stephen Hawking. Everyone who believes in God is deluded, say the atheists. If you don’t believe in MY God, you’re lost, say the theists. Displaying and declaring your faith outside of your church is frowned upon, sometimes even prosecutable, says much of modern society. What are we to think and do?

The question is hard to answer because different people mean different things by "God". And that's perhaps the best reason why my most straightforward answer to the straightforward question is "no".

To expand slightly, let me just apply my usual rant: the question of whether something "exists" is universally irrelevant. It's not even logically well-formed: "exists X" is a syntax error in logic. To be well formed it has to have a structure like "Does there exist an X such that X does thus-and-such?"  People strip the question down to "Does X exist" only when they can't agree on any thus-and-such.

It implies that they're so desperate to continue to believe in X that they're willing to give up any actual properties of X. Or worse, play silly games where they think they can get from "OK, X exists, therefore it's the kind of X I think it is." That's vacuous and useless.

So a slightly less straightforward answer is "I have no reason to care whether it exists or not." People who insist that it must matter to me always, every time, universally end up making it in the form of an unprovable assertion, a form of argument so transparently invalid as to make me certain they will never say anything of value to me.

[StreetCowboy]

7 hours ago, jimmyyy said:

Don't know you would need to ask god why he did it. 

I have no need of entertaining you, we are discussing god here. 

Do you really believe God decides who dies in tsunamis or car accidents? 

Do you really believe that God will answer anyone's questions?

Do you really believe that God does not deserve a capital?

 

[bannork]

57 minutes ago, porphyry said:

What is God? Are we talking about an all-powerful creator of the universe who can do no wrong (after all, it’s his universe)? He is dead, according to Nietzsche. The universe never needed one, according to Stephen Hawking. Everyone who believes in God is deluded, say the atheists. If you don’t believe in MY God, you’re lost, say the theists. Displaying and declaring your faith outside of your church is frowned upon, sometimes even prosecutable, says much of modern society. What are we to think and do?

The question is hard to answer because different people mean different things by "God". And that's perhaps the best reason why my most straightforward answer to the straightforward question is "no".

To expand slightly, let me just apply my usual rant: the question of whether something "exists" is universally irrelevant. It's not even logically well-formed: "exists X" is a syntax error in logic. To be well formed it has to have a structure like "Does there exist an X such that X does thus-and-such?"  People strip the question down to "Does X exist" only when they can't agree on any thus-and-such.

It implies that they're so desperate to continue to believe in X that they're willing to give up any actual properties of X. Or worse, play silly games where they think they can get from "OK, X exists, therefore it's the kind of X I think it is." That's vacuous and useless.

So a slightly less straightforward answer is "I have no reason to care whether it exists or not." People who insist that it must matter to me always, every time, universally end up making it in the form of an unprovable assertion, a form of argument so transparently invalid as to make me certain they will never say anything of value to me.

No one has ever come back from the dead to confirm to those still in this world that there is anything beyond the grave. Trillions of folks who went before their loved ones have never come back to say, ' Hey it's okay over here, step on through.'

Only in dreams.

Now it may well be that after death, out of the time and space dimension we on earth are bound to, there is some existence we cannot comprehend of. Or perhaps we are reborn, energy changing form.

I'd like to come back as a tree in a protected forest, for example.

But the fact is we are limited by our dimensions, we know sod all about life after death, and any one who claims he or she does is a charlatan.

 

[notmyself]

On 6/21/2019 at 5:06 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

except that when someone claims that someone's belief is wrong or mistaken, it behooves that someone to provide more proof than just saying that "they" don't believe it.

 

so saying atheists (apparently) believe the one universe we can be sure of was both created and created from nothing, is imagined.. pulled out of thin air.. made up.

I have no idea of the point you are trying to make with that.

 

If "god" didn't make life, the universe and everything, from whence did it come? Science can not prove how it was created. Best they can do is say it started at the big bang. Soooo, what made the big bang happen, and from where did all the material to make the galaxies come?

No one has yet answered that question in a realistic manner.

 

 

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

If "god" didn't make life, the universe and everything, from whence did it come?

 

I'll take it as given that the question is valid. Don't know but I do know that 'god did it' is a logical fallacy.

 

Science can not prove how it was created.

 

Quite how you know science (reason) cannot answer is quite a claim as is created. On what basis can you make such claims?

 

Best they can do is say it started at the big bang. Soooo, what made the big bang happen, and from where did all the material to make the galaxies come?

 

We don't know that such a question is even valid but either way we don't know 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[robin33]

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Lenovo TB-X704F met Tapatalk

[ThaiBunny]

On 6/22/2019 at 9:59 PM, StreetCowboy said:

There are many things that exist only in our imagination, but quite clearly we all admit that they exist in our imagination, or perhaps in your imagination, not mine, or perhaps only in someone else’s Imagination.  But nevertheless, we cannot deny that they exist there.

My many discussions with religious believers, including members of my own family, about life in general have led me to the conclusion that their world view is one of fear - they're quite simply scared of life. Religion provides them with certainty vs. the uncertainties of the modern world

[CMNightRider]

                                                                          Atheism

 

The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.

 

                                                                  Makes perfect sense

[yodsak]

Or a god created everything in 6 days 6000 years ago. makes perfect sense.

Edited June 25, 2019 by yodsak

[CMNightRider]

1 hour ago, yodsak said:

Or a god created everything in 6 days 6000 years ago. makes perfect sense.

When considering how life began, there are only two options.  Either life was created by an intelligent source (God) or it began by natural processes.

 

No mechanism by which non-living matter can randomly spark itself into life has ever been demonstrated.  Information must come from a source of information.

 

Since God created the universe, and he said He did it in 6 days about 6,000 years ago, it does make perfect sense.  For those who believe nothing created everything, you have until your last breath to figure this out.  Once you die it is a done deal.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 2:50 AM, StreetCowboy said:

The universe is merely temporal, a fluctuation in the fabric of space and time.  Both matter and anti-matter exist in equal and balanced abundance, and occur as the ebb and flow of fluctuations in the nothingness of space.

 

I think that's a bit simpler and easier to comprehend, and makes more sense than the Book of gGenesis, and does not rely on any third party for its justification.  I'm not sure how you are going to come up with any evidence to disprove it, and I rely on Occam's Razor to carry the house.

 

Ah, but where did the matter/ antimatter come from?

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 1:15 AM, porphyry said:

What is God? Are we talking about an all-powerful creator of the universe who can do no wrong (after all, it’s his universe)? He is dead, according to Nietzsche. The universe never needed one, according to Stephen Hawking. Everyone who believes in God is deluded, say the atheists. If you don’t believe in MY God, you’re lost, say the theists. Displaying and declaring your faith outside of your church is frowned upon, sometimes even prosecutable, says much of modern society. What are we to think and do?

The question is hard to answer because different people mean different things by "God". And that's perhaps the best reason why my most straightforward answer to the straightforward question is "no".

To expand slightly, let me just apply my usual rant: the question of whether something "exists" is universally irrelevant. It's not even logically well-formed: "exists X" is a syntax error in logic. To be well formed it has to have a structure like "Does there exist an X such that X does thus-and-such?"  People strip the question down to "Does X exist" only when they can't agree on any thus-and-such.

It implies that they're so desperate to continue to believe in X that they're willing to give up any actual properties of X. Or worse, play silly games where they think they can get from "OK, X exists, therefore it's the kind of X I think it is." That's vacuous and useless.

So a slightly less straightforward answer is "I have no reason to care whether it exists or not." People who insist that it must matter to me always, every time, universally end up making it in the form of an unprovable assertion, a form of argument so transparently invalid as to make me certain they will never say anything of value to me.

You certainly will care if it is all true and you are being judged by the supreme being.

In the end, it doesn't matter if any of us don't think the supreme being exists or not- it either does or it doesn't ( I doubt the supreme being has a gender ). What is, is, and none of know, even Hawking, who should have known better, till after we are dead. So far, no mere mortal has returned from the dead to tell us one way or another. 

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I doubt the supreme being has a gender

Are you suggesting God doesn't have balls? Why then is he referred to as He and Father?

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, yodsak said:

Or a god created everything in 6 days 6000 years ago. makes perfect sense.

6 days may not mean 6 days as we understand it. If a being created life the universe and everything, s/he can certainly make a "day" last a few billion of our years.

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

6 days may not mean 6 days as we understand it. If a being created life the universe and everything, s/he can certainly make a "day" last a few billion of our years.

In Alice In Wonderland Humpty Dumpty is recorded as saying "When I use a word it means exactly what I say it means". Are you comparing God to Humpty Dumpty?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, ThaiBunny said:

Are you suggesting God doesn't have balls? Why then is he referred to as He and Father?

LOL. The men in funny hats thousands of years ago had to explain to the less than clever followers why there was a "god" that only they could communicate with, which was why the common folk had to give them lots of bear skins and fish to intercede with the "god" for them, else the "god" would be angry and burn their hovels down. Of course the idea that a powerful being could be feminine was ludicrous back then, so the "god" was ascribed masculinity.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

In Alice In Wonderland Humpty Dumpty is recorded as saying "When I use a word it means exactly what I say it means". Are you comparing God to Humpty Dumpty?

Are you saying "god" actually spoke to people?

[yodsak]

Ok, so the earth isn't 6000 years old as the  3000 year old book of fairy tales suggests, it's 4.54 billion years old. And a god started to make it 4.54 billion years ago. Not made in 6 days as we understand it.  

A god can make a day last a few billion years.  Wonder what Hawking  [RIP] would think of that theory.?  

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 7:42 AM, notmyself said:

 

What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

 

If "god" didn't make life, the universe and everything, from whence did it come?

 

I'll take it as given that the question is valid. Don't know but I do know that 'god did it' is a logical fallacy.

 

Science can not prove how it was created.

 

Quite how you know science (reason) cannot answer is quite a claim as is created. On what basis can you make such claims?

 

Best they can do is say it started at the big bang. Soooo, what made the big bang happen, and from where did all the material to make the galaxies come?

 

We don't know that such a question is even valid but either way we don't know 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If "god" didn't make life, the universe and everything, from whence did it come?

 

I'll take it as given that the question is valid. Don't know but I do know that 'god did it' is a logical fallacy.

 

So, you don't know, but you do know that there is no god? That is illogical. Either you know, or you must entertain the possibility of anything, including that beyond your experience.

 

Science can not prove how it was created.

 

Quite how you know science (reason) cannot answer is quite a claim as is created. On what basis can you make such claims?

 

Science has yet to explain life the universe and everything, ergo, science can not prove how it was created.

 

Best they can do is say it started at the big bang. Soooo, what made the big bang happen, and from where did all the material to make the galaxies come?

 

We don't know that such a question is even valid but either way we don't know 

 

Exactly. No one knows, therefore some unknown force created it all. It is perfectly acceptable that an unknown force may be described as "god". "God", after all, is just a word, and can be ascribed any meaning depending on one's beliefs.

I like to think of "God" as Gaia, the force that created us and the world, and Gaia may be at this very moment trying to get rid of us for being terrible custodians of planet earth- global warming; antibiotic resistant bacteria?

All questions are valid when no answer is possible.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, yodsak said:

Ok, so the earth isn't 6000 years old as the  3000 year old book of fairy tales suggests, it's 4.54 billion years old. And a god started to make it 4.54 billion years ago. Not made in 6 days as we understand it.  

A god can make a day last a few billion years.  Wonder what Hawking  [RIP] would think of that theory.?  

By now Hawking may know that he was wrong and that "god" exists and can do anything including making a day last a very long time, OR he may be correct and is nothing, his consciousness vanished into the vast cosmos.

 

And a god started to make it 4.54 billion years ago.

Actually, if "god" created life, the universe and everything it started at the big bang, and depending on what came before the big bang even before that.

Edited June 25, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[ThaiBunny]

26 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you saying "god" actually spoke to people?

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God. You don't know your Bible?

[ThaiBunny]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course the idea that a powerful being could be feminine was ludicrous back then

A rather naive understanding of the breadth of human religiosity

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, ThaiBunny said:

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word was God. You don't know your Bible?

and you believe the bible literally?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, ThaiBunny said:

A rather naive understanding of the breadth of human religiosity

LOL. How many women were in charge 50,000 years ago?