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Do you believe in God and why


ivor bigun

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10 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Two of the gospel biographies were written by the apostles Matthew and John, men who knew Jesus personally and traveled with him for over three years.  The other two books were written by Mark and Luke, close associates of the apostles.  These writers had direct access to the facts they were recording.  At the time of their writing, there were still people alive who had heard Jesus speak, watched him heal people and perform miracles.

 

One of many idle propositions. Both Matthew and John copied Mark, often verbatim.

 

 

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Don't take everything so serious, the bible is not telling history. Nothing of the writings can be proven,

 

Here is a weird article about God by Erin Pavlina (the author is known - in contrast to the bible)

 

This is what I dreamed last night:

I was at a party, enjoying myself immensely. Great people, great food, great conversation.

Suddenly a woman walked into the room. Her aura preceded her. Definitely powerful in some way. Heads turned in her direction and people stopped speaking.

She was wearing white robes with a gold sash wrapped around her waist. As she moved further into the room, she waved her hand and everyone and everything stopped moving, like time had stopped. Even the music stopped playing.

She walked up to me and simply said “I need you.”

I wanted to say “What?” but my lips were frozen and I could not move a muscle.

She touched my shoulder and the room spun away. When I got my bearings I saw we were in a small room. There was a couch, a coffee table, and a desk; all the normal things you might see in a room with one unusual addition.

A man dressed in blue robes was casually lounging in the air, suspended about 5 feet off the floor. Near as I could tell, nothing was holding him in place. Holy Harry Potter, surely this was some kind of magic!

The woman released whatever hold she had on my tongue and I was finally able to speak.

“What just happened? Who are you? What do you want with me?” I asked quickly.

The man in the air rolled his eyes and said, “Really? A human?”

The woman snapped, “Shut up.” Then she turned to me and said, “Listen, I know this is strange, but I need you to keep it together. In a moment, I’m going to bring God here and I need you to read him.”

My jaw dropped. “You need me to what now?”

The floating man rolled his eyes again.

The woman said, “You read people right?” I nodded dumbly. “Well I need you to read God. When I bring him through he’s going to be a little out of sorts. He’s been …” she glanced at the man hanging in the air who waved his hand at her as if to say “go ahead and tell her, I don’t care,” and the woman continued.

“He’s been out of sorts, and missing as well. I just found him and I’m going to bring him back to our dimension and I need you to tell me if he’s … well … if he’s all here, if he’s intact, if he’s, you know, okay.”

“Holy crap,” I said. “You want me to tune into God and like do a reading for him? Is that even possible? Also what do you mean he’s been missing? Where did he go?”

The woman said, “It will take too long to explain and I need to bring him through before I lose the signal again. Just get ready. Oh, and brace yourself. Humans don’t always fare so well in his presence, but I’m not sure what state he’ll be in when I bring him through the portal.”

I took a few steps backward in the room, shaking my head slowly. This wasn’t happening.

She turned her attention to the coffee table like it was the most sacred object in the universe at the moment. She waved her hands around in the air and I saw energy moving from her fingers. There was a sound of acceleration like a jet plane about to take off, and then a very loud popping sound like a thunderclap.

The air opened up and a gold and white speckled ball of light appeared just above the coffee table.

Was this God?

“Got him!” the woman exclaimed, pride in her voice.

The man in the air leaned forward, examining our new guest. I stood frozen in place, completely overwhelmed by what I had just seen.

The woman poked a little at the orb and said, “I think he’s stunned. I can wake him slightly.”

She did that thing with her hands again and energy flowed from her fingers into the orb.

I saw the orb swirling a bit, coming to life, a crackling energy forming around its perimeter.

Holy crap, I thought to myself. This is amazing, this is incredible, is this really God? What a lovely being…”

This was my last thought on Earth as the God orb turned its awareness on me. I felt the full impact of its gaze and suddenly I was convulsing, my brain seizing, my body thrashing. I fell to the floor.

The woman scanned my immobile form and said, “Damnit, he killed her.”

She turned to the man hanging in the air and said, “Gabriel, go get her soul and stuff it back in her body. Hurry!”

Gabriel was laughing mercilessly and said, “Why bother? Just get another human.”

She stamped her foot on the ground and said “No, I need THIS one, now go get her back.”

Gabriel sighed and said, “Fine.” He disappeared.

I don’t know where I was, but I was someplace without my body. I think I was in limbo. I was floating. It wasn’t a terrible sensation, but I did feel somewhat unfinished. Just then I felt my soul grabbed by ungentle hands and dragged through the ether.

There was a popping sound and suddenly I was back in my body. I sat up, gasping for air, and petrified to boot. I was back in the room with the God orb. I really did NOT want to be back in the room with the God orb!. I got the impression he didn’t like me very much.

I got to my feet.

“Was I just…? Did God just SMITE me? What the hell?!?” I exclaimed.

The woman said, “Don’t worry, I’ve got him settled down. He isn’t fully awake yet, but I can make sure he doesn’t kill you again. He didn’t mean it. It wasn’t personal.”

“It sort of felt personal to me,” I mumbled under my breath. “Is there any way you can tell me what the frak is going on?”

She said, “Okay listen, here’s the short version. God left our dimension for a little bit, then he got stuck and could not come back. Gabriel and I have been looking for him for a long time, and I finally found him. He does seem a bit off though, and that’s why you’re here. I need you to tell me what he’s thinking and feeling.”

I said, “Wow, I don’t… I mean, can’t you just…” my voice trailed off. This wasn’t really happening. Could I even tune in to God?

She said, “Look, I know what you’re capable of, and I really need your help. We can’t unleash God back into the world without first making sure he’s in a good place emotionally. I’ve got a hold on him right now, but I can’t hold him forever. Sometimes when God travels he comes back a little out of sorts, and I don’t want him unmaking the planet, so you’re up, kid. Please tune in. Just do what you normally do. You’ve got this!”

Gabriel guffawed. The woman snapped him a look and he shut up.

I decided to give it a shot. I figured if he killed me again these people could just put me back together. So I fired up the intuitive kiln and reached out to connect with God’s energy.

First I felt some confusion. God was confused about his current state. Like someone had blindfolded him. I looked deeper, and it felt like God was in the process of waking up after a long sleep. He was groggy but coming around.

I conveyed this to the woman. She said, “Yes, that’s normal after a dimensional shift. Please look to see if he’s feeling loving or if he wants to leave again.”

I tuned back in. “I think he’s okay. He wants to be more engaged with creation and his energy feels ready to take the reins so to speak.” I paused for a second and said to the woman, “Wait, how long has God been gone?”

She looked over at Gabriel who replied, “About a thousand years, give or take.”

I mouthed “A thousand years?!?!” and tried to process that. I said out loud, “Who was running creation while he was gone?”

Gabriel said “Angels. You’re fine. Don’t worry about it too much. This is all completely normal.”

I said, “Nothing about this is normal. You have got to be kidding me.”

“Humans” he sighed.

The woman said, “Keep searching please. We don’t have a lot of time.”

I tuned back into God. I started seeing images flashing at me at lightning speed. It was like I was seeing creation through God’s eyes. A million snapshots of small moments in time.

A butterfly emerging from a cocoon. Joy.

A missile launched into the sky. Sadness.

A mother kissing her baby’s nose. Love.

An old man dying alone in a hot desert. Completion.

A child rolling merrily down a grass covered hill. Delight.

A tree basking in sunlight. Life.

A man rescuing a dog during a flood. Compassion.

A woman being beaten by her husband. Regret.

I was overwhelmed by all the images and the breath whooshed out of me. I backed further away. The woman said, “What are you seeing?”

I said, “I’m seeing memories. It’s beautiful and haunting at the same time. He remembers it all. Experiences it all. He is present in every moment. His awareness is woven into every single thing that happens on Earth. That must be overwhelming to him.”

She shook her head, “No, that is the nature of creation for him. He is indeed woven into its every fiber. What else can you sense?”

I looked deeper. “He’s wondering what to do about creation. He’s trying to decide if he should intervene or let it be. He wants to nudge humanity towards love, but he doesn’t want to interfere either. He’s struggling to make a decision and he’s making me feel like one of his options is unmaking creation.”

I looked up at the woman and said, “Can he actually do that? Just wave his hands and poof we’re all gone?”

She looked up at Gabriel, a little sadness in her eyes. “Yes, he could. He loves creation. He loves every single bit of it. He has the power to create and he has the power to erase.”

I couldn’t think of anything to say. I felt really powerless in that moment.

Gabriel walked up to me with a tender and compassionate look in his eyes, put his hand on my cheek and said, “He hasn’t ever done it, child. Nor do I think he ever will. He loves you all too much.”

Tears formed in my eyes. “But he has considered it, right?”

“Yes,” they said in unison.

“So what happens now?” I asked. “What happens when you release him and he wakes up fully?”

The woman said, “Gabriel will herald his return and then God will decide what to do next.”

Just then I felt something crawling around in my head. It felt like a tendril of energy wending its way through my brain. It was gentle, but it made my head tingle.

Suddenly I was seeing all of my own memories. My childhood was flashing before my eyes. Every moment, things I had forgotten, and things I would never forget. Then it was my teenage years, college years, my adulthood. Motherhood.

It got so intense, I could not physically stand. My legs gave way and I began sinking to the ground. Gabriel caught me and set me down on the couch.

Every emotion a person could have cycled through my soul.

“What is happening?” I asked.

The woman replied, “He is reading YOU now.”

I felt strong emotions. Love, joy, compassion, but also sadness, pain, and fear. And hope, supporting me through all of my life.

Then God appeared in my mind. He was young, strong, fierce, and passionate. He smiled at me and said in my mind, “You are loved.”

I smiled back and said “Thank you for my life.”

God looked pensive as he seemed to consider something. He sighed and said to me, “Tell her she can let go now. I’m awake and all is well.”

I said, “He’s saying you can let go of him now. He’s ready to roll.”

The woman paused for a moment then dropped her hands to her sides. The glowing orb of energy got bigger and its light filled the room. I was completely overwhelmed by the sense of unconditional love emanating from the orb.

In another moment, the energy blinked away, and we were alone in the room.

The woman turned to me and said, “I appreciate your assistance, and I’m sorry God killed you for a second there.”

Gabriel laughed and said, “Classic God.”

The woman cast him a glance.

He said, “I’m off to herald.” He turned to me and said, “I’ll be watching over you, kid. You’re officially in my good graces. Don’t screw that up.” Then he was gone.

I asked the woman, “What happens to me now? Can I tell people I spoke to God?”

She snorted a bit and said, “Do you want to end up in an institution? I’m going to return you to your party now and erase your memory.”

“No, please,” I protested. “I want to remember this!”

She thought for a moment and said, “Hmm, perhaps there is a way.”

She reached out her fingers and touched my third eye. There was a spark and a feeling of falling, and I woke up in my bed, remembering this incredible dream I just had.

I swear I could hear Gabriel chuckling as I fully awakened.

Edited by sweatalot
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On 6/14/2019 at 8:07 PM, frantick said:

I can't understand something from nothing, nor nothing from something.  Therefore, maybe there's always been 'something'.  But, if it's the 'God' in any current religious teachings, it's not one I can follow.

 

Nothing wrong with learning or following the example of... but worship is another thing entirely. 

 

 

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On 6/12/2019 at 5:29 PM, nikmar said:

it sounds like im being daft, but Im serious. When i was a kid, my cat died and I was devastated. My Mother comforted me by saying she would go to heaven. People who lose a beloved pet talk about rainbow bridges etc. So if pets go to heaven and we meet up with them in the afterlife, they must have a soul. at what level do animals cease to have a soul and therefore dont go to Heaven. Does a pet rabbit go to Heaven. Do wild rabbits go to heaven. mice, rats, snakes, jing jok etc.

Like i said, its a serious thought, but at the same time, I do recognise that i should not drink in the afternoon.

That's an interesting and complex question for CMN. But i will have a go.

 

  God and heaven/hell doesn't exist, except in the minds of men, so they don't go anywhere, the same as humans.

They rot in the ground feeding worms or incinerated. When you're dead you're dead, Thats it. No afterlife, reward / punishment. No judgement day.   You will never see your friends and pets again. 

 

Or

Animals are non believers so maybe they would go to hell, assuming there is an afterlife, and a god included them in his divine plan. 

 The same as atheists, and the all the remote tribes of the world that worship false gods, and have never heard of jesus our lord..

 Like those non believers on North Sentinel island that killed John Chau [a missionary] recently.

Chau called the island 'Satans last stronghold'  Many pagan tribes around today.

 

Pope Francis said  ''One day we will see our animals again in eternity. Paradise is open to all of gods creatures''

Pope John Paul ???????? said animals have souls. 

 

A few more that will never enter gods kingdom.

1380160526_ScreenShot2019-06-14at13_24_43.png.7cce071537132ce9ea4264025230112e.png

 

 The pope is a catholic, will he dwell in hell ?]

 

2119028551_ScreenShot2019-06-14at13_00_09.png.8de01c2795773bb3f0b13d74d6030b4b.png

1154771536_ScreenShot2019-06-14at12_54_26.png.be26b3d67c2b1befb4347a32947bd111.png

205219867_ScreenShot2019-06-14at12_51_55.png.5a0efb8973b0527ce117817e9f94db9e.png

 

Looking like there are more people in hell than in heaven.  Thank god for religion.

 

edit something's gone wrong with text

Edited by yodsak
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10 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

It is well known, agreed upon and even states so in The Bible, that the gospels were written anonymously. The Gospel of Mark probably dates from c. AD 66–70, Matthew and Luke around AD 85–90, and John AD 90–110. Despite the traditional ascriptions, all four are anonymous and none were written by eyewitnesses. Like the rest of the New Testament, they were written in Greek. 

Moses is credited for the first five books of the Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy which are called the Pentetuch. These books cover creation to his own death at the end of Deuteronomy. It's been suggested that another person, who took over the spiritual leadership of the Israelites, completed Deuteronomy.

The books of Joshua, Judges, and Ruth are historical documents written before or during the reign of King David presumably by priestly historians.

The Psalms were written by King David, Moses, Solomon, the sons of Korah, the sons of Asaph and Ethan the Ezrahite. There are also some Psalms that were written anonymously.

Proverbs, Song of Solomon, and Ecclesiastes were written by King Solomon, though chapters 30 and 31 of Proverbs were written by Agur and Lemuel respectively.

Isaiah, Hosea, Amos, Jonah, Micah, Nahum and Zephaniah were the prophets who penned the books with their names.

The writers of Samuel, Kings, Esther, and Job are unnamed.

Habakkuk, Joel, Obadiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi were written by the prophets' named respectively.



Jeremiah wrote both Lamentations and Jeremiah while Ezra wrote Ezra, Nehemiah and possibly Chronicles.

In the New Testament, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote their gospels and Luke also wrote the book of Acts. Paul is responsible for the Pauline Letters which are Romans, 1st Corinthians, 2nd Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1st Thessalonians, 2nd Thessalonians, 1st Timothy, 2nd Timothy, Titus, and Philemon.

Peter of the Twelve Disciples wrote 1st and 2nd Peter. John, the Disciple that Jesus loved, wrote 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John and also Revelation.

The book of James has been credited to James the brother of Jesus and the book of Jude was written by Jude the bother of James. Hebrews has been ascribed to the Apostle Paul but is generally considered to have been written anonymously.

How many people wrote the Bible? Although the actual count of the authors of the Bible is 40, there wouldn't be the history and stories without the people who lived and told them.

 

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11 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

One of many idle propositions. Both Matthew and John copied Mark, often verbatim.

 

 

There is no evidence that Matthew and Mark ‘copied’ from a written copy of Mark at all, they all wrote down what had been passed on via oral tradition and in some cases the information they collected from various sources was identical due to the accuracy in retelling.

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Visited my boys daily in the special care room with incubators when they were born, fortunately they did ok

But saw a 800 gram child with a gazillion hoses sticking out of him struggling for his little life.

What god who is all powerful would punish a little innocent child like this ?

If does exist, then maybe better to be with Satan cause God is in no moral high ground


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9 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

There is no evidence that Matthew and Mark ‘copied’ from a written copy of Mark at all, they all wrote down what had been passed on via oral tradition and in some cases the information they collected from various sources was identical due to the accuracy in retelling.

 

Laughable which is why included verbatim in my post. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, transam said:

At my age I already know. I am one that has not been brainwashed. I do not spend hours on my knees worshiping something that is not there, but even if there was do you think he/she would want you/me spending half our life on our knees achieving nothing.....In fact grovelling....Don't think so....

 

All leads to a bigger question I'd say and if I may, though it's late, give an example. I cook a lot but my home is too small so I use a number of restaurants in town as a venue. One place is owned by a British fella but run by his wife and they do only traditional British food including Sunday roasts. Point being is 100% they needed an oven. It was real old and still working but there was flames all over the shop because of holes due to age, rust (sea air on Samui) and heat degradation. [the point is coming !] I gave her 20k Baht for a new oven because she's a lovely person and I can use it too because I'm not going to use the angry dragon she had. So she's chuffed as **** and people are just looking at as both. Had to be there I guess. So the point being is imagine every time I saw her she would get on her knees and thank me.... and praise me.. worship me.

 

So after a while I'm gonna get ****** off and regret doing it in the first place but not supposedly the theistic god spoken about thus far. Your god likes to bask in adoration <deleted>. It's willing servitude.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, skippybangkok said:

Visited my boys daily in the special care room with incubators when they were born, fortunately they did ok

But saw a 800 gram child with a gazillion hoses sticking out of him struggling for his little life.

What god who is all powerful would punish a little innocent child like this ?

If does exist, then maybe better to be with Satan cause God is in no moral high ground

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

Yes i believe there is a higher power.  Why, the bullet missed my heart.  The IED did not kill me, i could go on for days, i have seen miracles happen with my own eyes. 

I would say that you were just lucky. Why do you consider it a miracle?

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12 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

Ok disclaimer i am not crazy, i was told to move by something and i did.  I just heard a voice in my head say move and i did. 

 So, why do you think you were spared when millions actually got a bullet/IED that killed them?

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Now we come to the struggle, i have convinced myself that he has a higher purpose for me.  This is why i was spared and my friends were not.  For a long time this single question was causing me alot of problems. 

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Just now, jimmyyy said:

Now we come to the struggle, i have convinced myself that he has a higher purpose for me.  This is why i was spared and my friends were not.  For a long time this single question was causing me alot of problems. 

What is this higher purpose? Discovering a cure for cancer perhaps?

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Won't be doing that, perhaps it was the children that i had after the war, perhaps one of them will have a go at curing something, perhaps they influence someone that does something great.  Perhaps there children do something great.  I just leave it to god, i don't control such things.  

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1 hour ago, jimmyyy said:

Won't be doing that, perhaps it was the children that i had after the war, perhaps one of them will have a go at curing something, perhaps they influence someone that does something great.  Perhaps there children do something great.  I just leave it to god, i don't control such things.  

did it ever come to your mind that the "higher purpose" might not have come from God - but from you? Subconscious, superconscious ... whatever

Edited by sweatalot
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1 hour ago, jimmyyy said:

Now we come to the struggle, i have convinced myself that he has a higher purpose for me.  This is why i was spared and my friends were not.  For a long time this single question was causing me alot of problems. 

 

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1 hour ago, jimmyyy said:

Now we come to the struggle, i have convinced myself that he has a higher purpose for me.  This is why i was spared and my friends were not.  For a long time this single question was causing me alot of problems. 

Some people get killed by chance some by stupidity.  I made it through 3 wars by playing the odds.  1.  Avoid places where soldiers gather.  2.  Never volunteer for anything.  3.  Remember your worst enemy is your commanding officer (he is trying to get you killed).  4.  Granny said there were no atheists in foxholes.  She was wrong. 

 

I had a roommate for a while in Vietnam, he'd say prayers every morning and night and mocked me for not using the indoor toilet that was adjacent to our barracks.  Rule #1. caused me to poop alone in the old outhouse with no running water.  Charlie rocketed the new toilet with the running water and blew the sh** out of my roomie (pun intended). 

 

This of course proved to me that there is no god and my rule #1.  Was a good idea.  All in all the collected works of Kurt Vonnegut are probably more valuable to mankind than the new and old testament.   

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On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 8:15 PM, totally thaied up said:

I feel very sorry that you think like that. 

Not as sorry as I was when I found out that "love" was just a con for women to get what they want before dumping me, and that isn't just marriage. Can't remember how many times I was exploited for my DIY and mechanical skills before being given the cold shoulder by women that pretended to be my friend.

Took me a while to cotton on, but eventually I woke up to reality and stopped offering help to women unless there was a pay off for me included, and not talking about sex.

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1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

4.  Granny said there were no atheists in foxholes.  She was wrong. 

That only applies if one is either dying or convinced that one is going to die, imminently.

 

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

This of course proved to me that there is no god

That doesn't prove anything other than "god" isn't going to actually save anyone from death. Why would god do so when almost every species on the planet lives by devouring other species?

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1 hour ago, sweatalot said:

did it ever come to your mind that the "higher purpose" might not have come from God - but from you? Subconscious, superconscious ... whatever

did it ever come to your mind that your subconscious, superconscious ... whatever, may BE "god"? I doubt anyone can explain where it does come from, so that must be a possibility.

The big question is where did "I" come from? Are we just an accidental joining of molecules that happened when the big bang came from "nothing", or is there an intelligence behind life, the universe and everything?

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