Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

8 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let me try to explain it to you.

I have a couple of geckos in my apartment. They walk along the walls and are harmless. I never invited them. They are here permanently but they don't pay any rent. Is that fair? Now maybe you ask why I didn't discuss that with them. I didn't try to do that because it does not make any sense. It's a no-brainer. Maybe that helps you to understand the concept.

Gosh, thanks for clarifying that. You and your geckos are obviously the bright ones here.

Probably the reason why you get along so well with them. ????????????

Edited March 1, 2020 by Sunmaster

[OneMoreFarang]

9 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Gosh, thanks for clarifying that. You and your geckos are obviously the bright ones here.

Probably the reason why you get along so well with them. ????????????

I am sure my geckos also don't believe in god. I guess that proves that they are more intelligent than some other creatures. Combine that with my high IQ and we are unbeatable. ???? 

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

"The takeaway for me is that we need to question all our beliefs,  and one way to do that is the scientific way. Another highly effective way is to follow a meditative practice.

Both ways are replicable and are verified through peer review. Whatever way you chose for yourself, always question what you know."

 

There, I fixed it for you.

 

The difference in our approach is that your version allows only for 1 side of the coin, while denying the experiences of millions of people. 

My version includes both, which I find not just more rational and logical, but simply common sense.

In fact, I wrote 2 ways, but in reality there many more.

" Another highly effective way is to follow a meditative practice. "

How does the meditative practice verifies the validity of one's beliefs ? 

[OmegaRacer]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

" Another highly effective way is to follow a meditative practice. "

How does the meditative practice verifies the validity of one's beliefs ? 

Good question.

 

First of all, let me clarify that meditative practice doesn't only refer to sitting in meditation, but it's a way of life that includes right nutrition, physical health, leading a highly moral life and a constant effort to  improve the mind. Leading such a focused life greatly accelerates your evolution. 
It's not possible to make good progress if you meditate 20 minutes a day, but still indulge in mind numbing and immoral activities.

When you start on that path, you follow the directions of those who have navigated the inner landscape before you and you can first-hand explore and verify if what they said is true or not. That way your beliefs may change, not because someone or a book told you so, but they will automatically change and adapt based on your own experience and new data.
The individual experiences can not be dismissed as random "feelings" or "visions". They have common grounds in all practitioners and are thus verifiable by other peers. That's why an experienced teacher can give you advice and support your progress, in the same way a music teacher can help you to become a proficient musician. 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, OmegaRacer said:

Good question.

 

First of all, let me clarify that meditative practice doesn't only refer to sitting in meditation, but it's a way of life that includes right nutrition, physical health, leading a highly moral life and a constant effort to  improve the mind. Leading such a focused life greatly accelerates your evolution. 
It's not possible to make good progress if you meditate 20 minutes a day, but still indulge in mind numbing and immoral activities.

When you start on that path, you follow the directions of those who have navigated the inner landscape before you and you can first-hand explore and verify if what they said is true or not. That way your beliefs may change, not because someone or a book told you so, but they will automatically change and adapt based on your own experience and new data.
The individual experiences can not be dismissed as random "feelings" or "visions". They have common grounds in all practitioners and are thus verifiable by other peers. That's why an experienced teacher can give you advice and support your progress, in the same way a music teacher can help you to become a proficient musician. 

Not trying to be disrespectful, but did you watch the Ted talk?

 

[Sunmaster]

28 minutes ago, sirineou said:

" Another highly effective way is to follow a meditative practice. "

How does the meditative practice verifies the validity of one's beliefs ? 

Meditation follows certain rules and guidelines. If you start to meditate you can verify if those rules apply to you or not. If they do and they provoke the changes that the advanced practitioners claim, then you can judge for yourself if those teachings have any validity or not. Your beliefs will change accordingly.

[OmegaRacer]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Not trying to be disrespectful, but did you watch the Ted talk?

 

Yes, why?
 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

Meditation follows certain rules and guidelines. If you start to meditate you can verify if those rules apply to you or not. If they do and they provoke the changes that the advanced practitioners claim, then you can judge for yourself if those teachings have any validity or not. Your beliefs will change accordingly.

So meditation makes you a superior human being and thus your beliefs have to be correct?

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, OmegaRacer said:

Yes, why?
 

and you understood it?

Ok so the you also believe that Meditation makes you a better human "evolved" being and as such your beliefs must be correct. they don't need to be replicable and No peer review necessary?  

[Sunmaster]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

So meditation makes you a superior human being and thus your beliefs have to be correct?

So meditation makes you a superior human being...

If by a "superior human being" you mean a person who knows him/herself, who leads a moral life, takes care of his/her body, whose emotions don't just flare up at every small thing, who trained his/her mind to be razor sharp by years of sharpening........then yes, in a way it makes you a superior human being.

....and thus your beliefs have to be correct?
Certainly not. But feel free to verify my claims.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

So meditation makes you a superior human being...

If by a "superior human being" you mean a person who knows him/herself, who leads a moral life, takes care of his/her body, whose emotions don't just flare up at every small thing, who trained his/her mind to be razor sharp by years of sharpening........then yes, in a way it makes you a superior human being.

....and thus your beliefs have to be correct?
Certainly not. But feel free to verify my claims.

So you claim superior in your beliefs. where others don't? 

 

[OmegaRacer]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

and you understood it?

Ok so the you also believe that Meditation makes you a better human "evolved" being and as such your beliefs must be correct. they don't need to be replicable and No peer review necessary?  

I think I did and I agree with sunmaster.
Did you read what I wrote about meditation?? I clearly stated that what you encounter on the inner journey is replicable and that the peer review is done by other practitioners and especially teachers. 
If that weren't the case, there would be no yoga system at all, but just a formless blob of individual experiences with nothing in common.

[Sunmaster]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

So you claim superior in your beliefs. where others don't? 

 

Do you have some kind of inferiority complex?
I'm just saying that following a certain lifestyle will give you more physical, emotional and mental strength. Let's not even talk about the spiritual part.
Now, if that makes you feel threatened, I would have a good look at myself and maybe do something about it.

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, OmegaRacer said:

I think I did and I agree with sunmaster.
Did you read what I wrote about meditation?? I clearly stated that what you encounter on the inner journey is replicable and that the peer review is done by other practitioners and especially teachers. 
If that weren't the case, there would be no yoga system at all, but just a formless blob of individual experiences with nothing in common.

Amd there was a study whose results were replicated and subjected to peer review that confirmed the validity of the beliefs of people who meditate. 

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Do you have some kind of inferiority complex?
I'm just saying that following a certain lifestyle will give you more physical, emotional and mental strength. Let's not even talk about the spiritual part.
Now, if that makes you feel threatened, I would have a good look at myself and maybe do something about it.

Neither inferiority or Superiority. Balance. I thought meditation was supposed to promote balance. If you believe you are superior because you meditate, I suggest you meditate some more.  

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Neither inferiority or Superiority. Balance. I thought meditation was supposed to promote balance. If you believe you are superior because you meditate, I suggest you meditate some more.  

When did I say I'm superior??
I said THE PRACTICE OF MEDITATION MAKES YOU INTO A SUPERIOR HUMAN BEING, because it unlocks parts of you that would otherwise remain dormant.
Is that so difficult to grasp?

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Neither inferiority or Superiority. Balance. I thought meditation was supposed to promote balance. If you believe you are superior because you meditate, I suggest you meditate some more.  

Balance eh.. You sound a bit envious.

Perhaps it's time for you to stop watching tv and talk shows, and try to look into yourself.

It's hard at the beginning, but quite rewarding, i promise you ????

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

When did I say I'm superior??
I said THE PRACTICE OF MEDITATION MAKES YOU INTO A SUPERIOR HUMAN BEING, because it unlocks parts of you that would otherwise remain dormant.
Is that so difficult to grasp?

Don't you meditate? 

Don't you see the fallacy of your logic? Perhaps it is time to change avatars. 

 

[Sunmaster]

7 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Don't you meditate? 

Don't you see the fallacy of your logic? Perhaps it is time to change avatars. 

 

I openly and repeatedly said that I just started meditating regularly. Perhaps you missed those posts, or your selective reading got in the way again.

Furthermore, it's a lifelong endeavor. I certainly have a lot to learn...like everyone else.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Sunmaster

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Balance eh.. You sound a bit envious.

Perhaps it's time for you to stop watching tv and talk shows, and try to look into yourself.

It's hard at the beginning, but quite rewarding, i promise you ????

You are right. I retreat to the realm of the inferior, and  wallo in my envie. 

Wish me well

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You are right. I retreat to the realm of the inferior, and  wallo in my envie. 

Wish me well

C'mon, you know i like your contributions, but lately you are barking at the wrong trees.

Why so belligerent against meditation ?

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

I openly and repeatedly said that I just started meditating regularly. Perhaps you missed those posts, or your selective reading got in the way again.

You said "When did I say I'm superior?? "

Then you said "I said THE PRACTICE OF MEDITATION MAKES YOU INTO A SUPERIOR HUMAN BEING, because it unlocks parts of you that would otherwise remain dormant. "

Then you said "  I just started meditating regularly"

   or are you claiming that you just started medication regularly you have not yet unlocked the superiority that meditation .

If so how do you support your belief that that meditation confirms your beliefs?

  either you are superior through meditation,  or Someone told you?

I suggest you go back and watch the ted talk again.  

[sirineou]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

C'mon, you know i like your contributions, but lately you are barking at the wrong trees.

Why so belligerent against meditation ?

I am not belligerent against Meditation , I have great respect for meditation, what i don't respect is the claim by Sunmaster that meditation validates beliefs. 

Please watch that TED talk, I have watched it three times and have saved it to watch periodically hence I forget myself and fall  back in to past practices that I am also guilty off. 

I think the conclusions reached in that talk are profound and has made me more find towards those who believe differently. I understand them now. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by sirineou
typo

[Sunmaster]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You said "When did I say I'm superior?? "

Then you said "I said THE PRACTICE OF MEDITATION MAKES YOU INTO A SUPERIOR HUMAN BEING, because it unlocks parts of you that would otherwise remain dormant. "

Then you said "  I just started meditating regularly"

   or are you claiming that you just started medication regularly you have not yet unlocked the superiority that meditation .

If so how do you support your belief that that meditation confirms your beliefs?

  either you are superior through meditation,  or Someone told you?

I suggest you go back and watch the ted talk again.  

A few hundred pages ago, I explained how I changed from being an atheist to a "believer" through a very powerful experience I had. I suggest you go back and read that again.  
That experience gave me some insights which I then (afterwards!) found confirmed in many spiritual teachings.
Now, after 23 years I've started meditating regularly. I know what meditation can achieve because I've seen where it leads to. That's why I can say it makes a better person out of you, without claiming to be superior myself.

Got it? 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I am not belligerent against Meditation , I have great respect for meditation, what i don't respect is the claim by Sunmaster that meditation validates beliefs. 

Please watch that TED talk, I have watched it three times and have saved it to watch periodically hence I forget myself and fall  back in to past practices that I am also guilty off. 

I think the conclusions reached in that talk are profound and has made me more find towards those who believe differently. I understand them now. 

I don't watch videos.

If everyone started to post videos, the discussion would have died long ago.

But i like to hear your thoughts, like sitting in a room and having a chat.

I fully support @Sunmaster claim, and definitely a regular meditation practice makes you a better human being.

I don't know how you translate "superior" in your inner thoughts, but i can swear that meditation gives you a superior understanding of the inner and outer reality, at least if you compare it to watching tv shows.

[CharlieH]

Reported inflammatory reference removed.

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

A few hundred pages ago, I explained how I changed from being an atheist to a "believer" through a very powerful experience I had. I suggest you go back and read that again.  
That experience gave me some insights which I then (afterwards!) found confirmed in many spiritual teachings.
Now, after 23 years I've started meditating regularly. I know what meditation can achieve because I've seen where it leads to. That's why I can say it makes a better person out of you, without claiming to be superior myself.

Got it? 

So we went full circle only to arrive where we started. 

What you describe is Exactly how everyone else rationalise their beliefs. 

according to the TED talk that we are talking about. Those beliefs are based on our incomplete information ,supported on the teachings of others whose beliefs  are also the product of incomplete information. they themselves having formed their beliefs from the teachings of others with incomplete information. 

IMO the only way to verify beliefs is the Scientific process , Replicable and subject to peer review.  And when I say "Peer I don't mean only others who  engage in meditation but all those involved in the Cognitive sciences to defend against   conformational bias .

[CharlieH]

Personal remark/off topic and response removed.

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

IMO the only way to verify beliefs is the Scientific process

That's incomplete information.

The Spirit is not a tart who comes when you call, you have to make yourself worth of it.

[sirineou]

12 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't watch videos.

If everyone started to post videos, the discussion would have died long ago.

But i like to hear your thoughts, like sitting in a room and having a chat.

I fully support @Sunmaster claim, and definitely a regular meditation practice makes you a better human being.

I don't know how you translate "superior" in your inner thoughts, but i can swear that meditation gives you a superior understanding of the inner and outer reality, at least if you compare it to watching tv shows.

Please watch this one , and get into the habit of watching TED talks, other than telepathy is a way of getting into other people's minds. And TED hosts some of the greatest minds IMO.

If you wait until they come and talk to you " like sitting in a room and having a chat." I am afraid you will wait along time ,and will be limited to only the ones willing to do so, 

The video is only 15 min long , you have invested much more time listening to idiots like me, why not invest 15 more minutes?