Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

much like if we have an ant biting us, we will eliminate the ant.

That's the point i am making. 

You can kill an ant, 1million  ants, but you can't destroy the ants. Thanks God. 

[Hummin]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

"You and me are privileged with choices"

 

Ironic then that people make such bad choices eg smoking, drinking too much alcohol and killing their liver, polluting rivers, cutting down all the trees so hillsides fall down on their houses, building in a flood plain and then seeing the house float away etc etc etc.

 

We live in an age where we know more than ever before in the time of humanity, but we seem to have failed to learn anything, despite almost universal education.

 

 

Sad, but true, we exploit this planet and ruin it for the next generations. We all know how important the forests that is left on the planet is, but we continue to chopping them down for commercial use. 
 

Once a time the rivers was clean, but there is no more forests or natural landscape to filtrate the soil, mud, debris from the rainwater before it ends up in the river anymore. But some scientists says we have no influence of whats happening in this planet, even I know how cool my land is after I planted 200 trees, and neighbors chop them down, and are angry at me, because I attract more birds, my trees take the water, my 3 different grass types is weed and I do not spray against insects or anything else. My soil is healing and keeps moist, collect water during the nights, and I have natural fertilizer from my sheeps. 
 

It is many small things that could save this planet, but we are a train with no brakes heading for disaster 

[Tippaporn]

5 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

 

<snip>

 

Can you elaborate in what way such speculations make your life better?

 

<snip>

 

Speculating is, in essence, questioning.  Questions lead to answers.  Answers make a huge difference.  Of course if one believes that answers are not available then one has just made their bed.  They've closed the doors which would allow answers to come in.

As far as what is knowable and what is not that is up to each of us to decide.  And my answer is:  Argue for your limitations and they're yours.  There are no limitations.  At least not for me.

There's been a plethora of theories cast about here regarding just about everything.  Certainly regarding the subject of who and what we are.  My bone of contention with them is that most of the beliefs expressed here seem to not take into consideration a theory's practical application.  Folks can believe anything they so choose but it would behoove people to work their beliefs through to at least attempt to show how their theories actually function in practical terms.  To say, "I believe in this, that or the other," is all well and fine but how does a particular theory work?  For if nothing else this is a practical reality.  And a rather stable one in that cats and dogs don't suddenly fly, or other phenomena don't behave in helter skelter fashion.

I find it interesting that I've offered an explanation as to who and what we are, and provided an actual working theory about how it operates and why, granted it's not complete and there is much more detail that needs to be filled in, and no one has offered a single comment.  Or a single question.  I admit as well that I find that a bit depressing, too.

It leads me to the conclusion that what I have to offer sparks no true interest here.  People believe what they believe and there seems to be no real inquisitiveness to delve into unfamiliar theories to find out what's there or how they would work in practical terms.  Endlessly discussing beliefs about life while presenting no working theses for any of them, while ignoring ideas backed up with working theses, is pointless to me.  It amounts to a never ending circle of debate which goes nowhere other than round and round.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

leads me to the conclusion that what I have to offer sparks no true interest here.  People believe what they believe and there seems to be no real inquisitiveness to delve into unfamiliar theories to find out what's there or how they would work in practical terms.  Endlessly discussing beliefs about life while presenting no working theses for any of them, while ignoring ideas backed up with working theses, is pointless to me.  It amounts to a never ending circle of debate which goes nowhere other than round and round.

I would talk to you if you were willing to listen and not just talk. 

Thing is, I've read all the posts here, since the beginning of this thread, and I've noticed that people, as in real life, don't really pay attention to others. 

Maybe too much ego ?

Also, i could also copy and paste 1000s of words from great masters, but it would be boring for everyone, and nobody except 1 or 2 would read half of it.

Sorry to be blunt, I'm also not the best at communicating. 

..and i do appreciate your posts, as i told you already. 

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I would talk to you if you were willing to listen and not just talk. 

Thing is, I've read all the posts here, since the beginning of this thread, and I've noticed that people, as in real life, don't really pay attention to others. 

Maybe too much ego ?

Also, i could also copy and paste 1000s of words from great masters, but it would be boring for everyone, and nobody except 1 or 2 would read half of it.

Sorry to be blunt, I'm also not the best at communicating. 

..and i do appreciate your posts, as i told you already. 

I was about to write about ego, and how it control us to continue in circles, no matter what happens outside the circle it drives everyone back inside to the same track. 
 

Most of all Im satisfied with what I know, feel and think as well my belief, but Im willing to change my belief as quick I sense something new and backed up by science. I do not dismiss chience because of some bad apples, same as your arguments, you are not willing to give up your stands bacause of bad apples in religion. 
 

After all there is no true conflicts  between religion spirituality or science, the true conflict is the ego of the participants of the debate. 

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

After all there is no true conflicts  between religion spirituality or science, the true conflict is the ego of the participants of the

Now we speak the same language. Thanks.

[Sunmaster]

8 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Speculating is, in essence, questioning.  Questions lead to answers.  Answers make a huge difference.  Of course if one believes that answers are not available then one has just made their bed.  They've closed the doors which would allow answers to come in.

As far as what is knowable and what is not that is up to each of us to decide.  And my answer is:  Argue for your limitations and they're yours.  There are no limitations.  At least not for me.

There's been a plethora of theories cast about here regarding just about everything.  Certainly regarding the subject of who and what we are.  My bone of contention with them is that most of the beliefs expressed here seem to not take into consideration a theory's practical application.  Folks can believe anything they so choose but it would behoove people to work their beliefs through to at least attempt to show how their theories actually function in practical terms.  To say, "I believe in this, that or the other," is all well and fine but how does a particular theory work?  For if nothing else this is a practical reality.  And a rather stable one in that cats and dogs don't suddenly fly, or other phenomena don't behave in helter skelter fashion.

I find it interesting that I've offered an explanation as to who and what we are, and provided an actual working theory about how it operates and why, granted it's not complete and there is much more detail that needs to be filled in, and no one has offered a single comment.  Or a single question.  I admit as well that I find that a bit depressing, too.

It leads me to the conclusion that what I have to offer sparks no true interest here.  People believe what they believe and there seems to be no real inquisitiveness to delve into unfamiliar theories to find out what's there or how they would work in practical terms.  Endlessly discussing beliefs about life while presenting no working theses for any of them, while ignoring ideas backed up with working theses, is pointless to me.  It amounts to a never ending circle of debate which goes nowhere other than round and round.

I'm pretty familiar with the Seth books and much of what he says mirrors how I see reality too. 

Are you really surprised though that copying that long passage didn't elicit the response you hoped for? Believe systems don't change from one day to another unless there's a catalytic event and one is ready for it. 

 

I understand what you're saying about the practical terms of ones belief systems. I used to argue my head off on this forum, trying to do what you just did with your post. It doesn't work. People will change on their own terms and in their own time, and in ways that might be surprisingly different from mine or yours. It doesn't matter. It's not our duty to initiate that change in others.

Our only duty is towards ourselves and to the Self (which are ultimately the same). That's my way of putting my belief system into practice. More action and less intellectual merry-go-rounds. And that's why I stopped wasting my time trying to help those who don't want to be helped, stopped wondering if there was a Big Bang or not, stopped asking myself if my ancestors were apes or aliens. For me it's irrelevant. 

Again, this is my path and I don't expect it to be the same for others.

If you find benefit in asking those questions, good for you, knock yourself out, but don't get depressed if you don't find any followers.

[Tippaporn]

16 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I would talk to you if you were willing to listen and not just talk. 

Thing is, I've read all the posts here, since the beginning of this thread, and I've noticed that people, as in real life, don't really pay attention to others. 

Maybe too much ego ?

Also, i could also copy and paste 1000s of words from great masters, but it would be boring for everyone, and nobody except 1 or 2 would read half of it.

Sorry to be blunt, I'm also not the best at communicating. 

..and i do appreciate your posts, as i told you already. 

Well, there's no literal talking or listening on an on-line forum.  The fact that I "listen" is evidenced by my thoroughness in addressing just about every point a poster makes.

I'm not here for the sake of my ego.  I'm here to exchange and debate ideas.  In my opinion the science disciples have a valid point in complaining that many of the beliefs expressed on this thread are backed up with nothing other than "I believe."  I certainly disagree with their mantra of "give me proof."  But for the most part the beliefs expressed here are not shown to have any working thesis or even any type of logical explanation for why someone's beliefs are true.

 

In God's name why would posting writings from "masters" be boring?  If that were true no one would have ever read any of their works to begin with.  Not that I would call Seth a "master."  And, speaking logically, if no more than 1 or 2 would read half of the text what does that say about their thirst for knowledge?  I'd say those that find it too taxing to read don't have a strong desire.  Those with strong desire would eagerly devour the material.  The proof is always in the pudding.

I appreciate your bluntness, mauGR1.  It takes a very thick skin to believe what I believe and feel no shyness in communicating those beliefs to others.  Well, confidence would more accurately describe it.  And an ability to argue it logically.

[mauGR1]

24 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Well, there's no literal talking or listening on an on-line forum.  The fact that I "listen" is evidenced by my thoroughness in addressing just about every point a poster makes.

I'm not here for the sake of my ego.  I'm here to exchange and debate ideas.  In my opinion the science disciples have a valid point in complaining that many of the beliefs expressed on this thread are backed up with nothing other than "I believe."  I certainly disagree with their mantra of "give me proof."  But for the most part the beliefs expressed here are not shown to have any working thesis or even any type of logical explanation for why someone's beliefs are true.

 

In God's name why would posting writings from "masters" be boring?  If that were true no one would have ever read any of their works to begin with.  Not that I would call Seth a "master."  And, speaking logically, if no more than 1 or 2 would read half of the text what does that say about their thirst for knowledge?  I'd say those that find it too taxing to read don't have a strong desire.  Those with strong desire would eagerly devour the material.  The proof is always in the pudding.

I appreciate your bluntness, mauGR1.  It takes a very thick skin to believe what I believe and feel no shyness in communicating those beliefs to others.  Well, confidence would more accurately describe it.  And an ability to argue it logically.

Ok, just to let you know, after years of various readings, trips in India, family and hard working, I've immersed myself in anthroposophic teachings of R.Steiner, so I'm not much interested in other teachings, and extremely pleased to read Steiner's books and lectures on various topics.

I got ecstatic on daily basis in a very simple way, just observing the magnificence of what surrounds us.

That said it's always a pleasure to know that I'm not the only "fool" who follows a spiritual path.

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

I'm pretty familiar with the Seth books and much of what he says mirrors how I see reality too. 

Are you really surprised though that copying that long passage didn't elicit the response you hoped for? Believe systems don't change from one day to another unless there's a catalytic event and one is ready for it. 

 

I understand what you're saying about the practical terms of ones belief systems. I used to argue my head off on this forum, trying to do what you just did with your post. It doesn't work. People will change on their own terms and in their own time, and in ways that might be surprisingly different from mine or yours. It doesn't matter. It's not our duty to initiate that change in others.

Our only duty is towards ourselves and to the Self (which are ultimately the same). That's my way of putting my belief system into practice. More action and less intellectual merry-go-rounds. And that's why I stopped wasting my time trying to help those who don't want to be helped, stopped wondering if there was a Big Bang or not, stopped asking myself if my ancestors were apes or aliens. For me it's irrelevant. 

Again, this is my path and I don't expect it to be the same for others.

If you find benefit in asking those questions, good for you, knock yourself out, but don't get depressed if you don't find any followers.

LOL.  Congratulations on a well written post that pretty much nails it, Sunmaster.  I admit that I have grappled for a long time with the question of why even the most common sense ideas fail to connect with people.  Whether it's politics or beliefs about life.  One would think that proper information and explanations, backed by logical and rationale reasoning, would suffice.  And again I admit that that has failed me time and time again.

I recall an early experience I had with a friend of mine.  I had been turned on to Castaneda's works by another friend just before I was introduced to Seth.  Once I started reading Seth I was deluged by an avalanche of insight.  I turned to this friend of mine, who had also read Castaneda's works, and excitedly gushed some of the new ideas I was now privvy to.  The response I received was as shocking as it was unexpected.  He quite vehemently and violently let me know that he didn't want to hear another word from me on the subject.

He explained that his life was going exceedingly well and he had no intention of mucking up his good fortune by changing any of his ideas.  He was on a roll which he felt was pure fortunate chance and he wanted to ride it out for as long as it lasted.  After that I learned to keep my mouth shut about what I knew.

Fast forward to a point in my life where I felt comfortable enough to successfully argue the validity of what I knew to be true.  I've attempted to use facts and common sense in the political arena and quickly found that most people, on any side of any aisle, were unchangeable in their thinking.  Not only that but even when winning an argument there was an impenetrable wall of pure dishonesty preventing any admission on the part of my opponent that he was wrong.  It was the ultimate exercise in futility.

Coming to this thread I believed that people would be much more open to genuinely discussing those ideas which have been a major driver in my life.  And to much benefit, I must add.  I believed that there was common interest here.  But I'm finding that my experience in the political arena extends to here as well.  As you say, people believe what they believe and they're not quite so ready or willing to change their beliefs, even if you can point out detrimental ideas and explain beneficial ones.

You are correct.  The initiation of change must come from the individual himself.  No amount of prodding or enticement will do the trick.  I should have long ago listened to myself regarding the fact, which I just recently posted here, that everyone who comes into this world comes with their own unique challenges.  The ideas they hold and subscribe to are the ones that are necessary to fulfill their own journeys.

Now I'm not one to experience depression often but I do find sometimes that traveling on the paths least traveled there is a yearning for companionship.  That companionship I've found to be rare.  Every once in a blue moon I'll bump into a stranger who is more family to me than my biological family is.  The last time it happened was in a seaside open bar in Sam Yoi Rot.

It's a nice story so I'll retell it.  The bar was in walking distance to the bungalow we were staying in.  I had traveled with my wife and young daughter and a lady friend of ours plus her little girl.  I went in advance and they were coming to meet me after putting the girls to bed.  As the sunlight faded the bar become filled with young European tourists, whom I engaged in conversation.  I got on well with one young Brit in particular and the conversation spontaneously veered into the direction of Sethian related subject matter.

Now this chap had never read Seth but he excitedly expressed the most similar ideas.  For all intents and purposes it was only the two of us in the bar.  My wife and our friend had at sometime unknown to me made their way into the bar and seated themselves at one of the bars outer tables.  Once I noticed them I came over to greet them but quickly returned to the intense discussion I was having with this newfound brother of mine.  We could have talked the night away and almost did so.  The comradery was devine.

Yeah, I'm still surprised that my offering didn't elicit a single response.  Perhaps I'm too wishful in my thinking.  Perhaps I've yet to struggle a while longer thinking that the words I offer could serve as a catalyst for some.  I should best give it up, though.  My apologies to anyone who took offense.

Again, Sunmaster, thanks for your astute post. 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Tippaporn

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

LOL.  Congratulations on a well written post that pretty much nails it, Sunmaster.  I admit that I have grappled for a long time with the question of why even the most common sense ideas fail to connect with people.  Whether it's politics or beliefs about life.  One would think that proper information and explanations, backed by logical and rationale reasoning, would suffice.  And again I admit that that has failed me time and time again.

I recall an early experience I had with a friend of mine.  I had been turned on to Castaneda's works by another friend just before I was introduced to Seth.  Once I started reading Seth I was deluged by an avalanche of insight.  I turned to this friend of mine, who had also read Castaneda's works, and excitedly gushed some of the new ideas I was now privvy to.  The response I received was as shocking as it was unexpected.  He quite vehemently and violently let me know that he didn't want to hear another word from me on the subject.

He explained that his life was going exceedingly well and he had no intention of mucking up his good fortune by changing any of his ideas.  He was on a roll which he felt was pure fortunate chance and he wanted to ride it out for as long as it lasted.  After that I learned to keep my mouth shut about what I knew.

Fast forward to a point in my life where I felt comfortable enough to successfully argue the validity of what I knew to be true.  I've attempted to use facts and common sense in the political arena and quickly found that most people, on any side of any aisle, were unchangeable in their thinking.  Not only that but even when winning an argument there was an impenetrable wall of pure dishonesty preventing any admission on the part of my opponent that he was wrong.  It was the ultimate exercise in futility.

Coming to this thread I believed that people would be much more open to genuinely discussing those ideas which have been a major driver in my life.  And to much benefit, I must add.  I believed that there was common interest here.  But I'm finding that my experience in the political arena extends to here as well.  As you say, people believe what they believe and they're not quite so ready or willing to change their beliefs, even if you can point out detrimental ideas and explain beneficial ones.

You are correct.  The initiation of change must come from the individual himself.  No amount of prodding or enticement will do the trick.  I should have long ago listened to myself regarding the fact, which I just recently posted here, that everyone who comes into this world comes with their own unique challenges.  The ideas they hold and subscribe to are the ones that are necessary to fulfill their own journeys.

Now I'm not one to experience depression often but I do find sometimes that traveling on the paths least traveled there is a yearning for companionship.  That companionship I've found to be rare.  Every once in a blue moon I'll bump into a stranger who is more family to me than my biological family is.  The last time it happened was in a seaside open bar in Sam Yoi Rot.

It's a nice story so I'll retell it.  The bar was in walking distance to the bungalow we were staying in.  I had traveled with my wife and young daughter and a lady friend of ours plus her little girl.  I went in advance and they were coming to meet me after putting the girls to bed.  As the sunlight faded the bar become filled with young European tourists, whom I engaged in conversation.  I got on well with one young Brit in particular and the conversation spontaneously veered into the direction of Sethian related subject matter.

Now this chap had never read Seth but he excitedly expressed the most similar ideas.  For all intents and purposes it was only the two of us in the bar.  My wife and our friend had at sometime unknown to me made their way into the bar and seated themselves at one of the bars outer tables.  Once I noticed them I came over to greet them but quickly returned to the intense discussion I was having with this newfound brother of mine.  We could have talked the night away and almost did so.  The comradery was devine.

Yeah, I'm still surprised that my offering didn't elicit a single response.  Perhaps I'm too wishful in my thinking.  Perhaps I've yet to struggle a while longer thinking that the words I offer could serve as a catalyst for some.  I should best give it up, though.  My apologies to anyone who took offense.

Again, Sunmaster, thanks for your astute post. 

 

The honest truth is it was somewhat interesting but a bit hard to read. If your aim is to  communicate a better way of thinking, or of life, consider talking in terms of practical applications and keep it brief.

I castigate myself sometimes for longer than necessary threads. I read them the next day and think <deleted> that was long boring and obvious.  But that's me.

Find a way to say 'OK you are retired in Thailand with a nice Thai lady, enjoy the odd beer, worry about finances sometimes, this is a practical way that Seth's message can apply to your life. Otherwise it can seem theoretical and  distant. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

The honest truth is it was somewhat interesting but a bit hard to read. If your aim is to  communicate a better way of thinking, or of life, consider talking in terms of practical applications and keep it brief.

I castigate myself sometimes for longer than necessary threads. I read them the next day and think <deleted> that was long boring and obvious.  But that's me.

Find a way to say 'OK you are retired in Thailand with a nice Thai lady, enjoy the odd beer, worry about finances sometimes, this is a practical way that Seth's message can apply to your life. Otherwise it can seem theoretical and  distant. 

The truth is that it's not easy material.  It's challenging, but not overly so.  I'm not the sharpest tool in the box and I have no problem in general.

I've given a lot of thought to presenting the concepts Seth lays out into easily digestible form but the devil is always in the details.  And the details are profuse.  Simple, but profuse.  Easy to understand but again, profuse.

Seth's information is not so much a better way of thinking, such as in a self-help type of way . . . think positive, for instance.  Rather his entire aim is to expose the true workings of reality.  And that can't get any more transformative.

For instance, if I wanted to be brief, to the point, and absolutely succinct in stating an absolute truth I could repeat a cornerstone of what he espouses:

You create your own reality.  There is no other main rule.

Now this cannot fly more directly in opposition to what most people believe.  That truth is rather shocking to people and more often than not it is a totally unacceptable premise based on lived experience.  Tell that to anyone who has just suffered a serious loss of one kind or another and you'd best run for cover.

Now I've often used Mark Twain's wonderfully astute observation that “What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so." as a warning that most actual truths are diametrically opposed to the "truths" that most folks subscribe to.  Another one of his quotes, at least arguably attributed to him is "it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."  This is also an astute observation that warns that once a person is convinced that something is true it's almost impossible to convince them it's not.

Another cornerstone of Seth's revelatory insights is contained in Jane Robert's 1963 essay entitled "The Universe As Idea Construction."

Both of these concepts, if understood and accepted, radically change the "rules of the game."  But these truths needn't just be accepted without evidence.  The evidence that this information is absolutely valid can easily be obtained by any individual who seriously desires to know it.  But the resultant changes in thinking, and behaviour, are absolutely transformative and the benefits cannot be overstated.

Take the idea that everyone creates their own reality.  Which means that no one else can create within one's reality.  Unless consent is given of course, which is usually done unconsciously.  No longer can one feel that they are a leaf at the mercy of the wind.  In fact, just the opposite.  For perhaps for the first time in one's life one can truly become the captain of their own ship, as they were meant to be.

On the other hand, as long as one believes that others, God or otherwise, or chance, luck or fate is the determinative force in one's life then one will more often than not short themselves and deny themselves the fulfillment of their desires and kneecap their given abilities and talents.

So you see, it's not about a better way of thinking, or a better way of living, but rather an awakening to the truth as to what the real rules of game are and what the actual laws of reality are.  For we all know that if we try to operate on laws which are in truth fictitious you can rest assured that trouble will follow in one form or another.  You don't see or hear of many people jumping off of tall structures in the hopes of flying.  Why?  Because most everyone by now understands the physical law of gravity.  In the same sense if other as yet unknown laws are just as well known and understood the effects would be massive for not only the individual but for the world.

One can look out into the world now and see the misery, death and destruction resulting from a perpetrated false reality built on a foundation of lies.  It ultimately collapses upon itself under the weight of it's own deception.

 

Concepts such as the universe as idea construction, for instance, are not simply superficially addressed.  Seth goes into granular detail as to the mechanics of how thought is transformed into physical reality.  No, it's not light reading.  But I guarantee that it will challenge as nothing has ever challenged you before.

Topics include everything from religion to animal consciousness to time to evolution to early man to All That Is (God, if you prefer) to Jesus Christ to past civilisations to reincarnation to alternate realities to how freedom works.  Seth's works comprise the most comprehensive explanations of who and what we are and the reality we find ourselves in from the perspective of someone who has participated in earthly reality and is now in a more expansive reality from which he can view ours.

If I knew of a way to make short script of so much knowledge I'd be more than happy to.  But I don't.  So I'm forced to produce long posts.  Then again, there are those who truly want to know and there are those whose curiosity is merely casual.  For those who truly want to know there are no complaints about lengthy reads or taxing one's brains.

None of what Seth brings to the table is theoretical and distant.  And all of it can be directly explored by anyone who so desires.  The proof is yours for the asking.

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Tippaporn

[Tippaporn]

There's one other point I'd like to make to the above.

I've said it many times.  Reality is what it is and works the way it does despite anyone's beliefs about it.  Period.  Death will treat you the same as everyone else equally with no regard for your beliefs as to whether an after life exists or not.

Given that then the takeaway is that no matter what one believes about the workings of reality the laws apply regardless.  You create your own reality whether you believe you do or not; whether you agree with it or not; whether you like it or not.

Which means that you have two options:  create consciously or create unconsciously.  You won't be doing anything you haven't been doing all along.  Now if you had that choice to make consciously which choice would you make?

[Hummin]

46 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I've said it many times.  Reality is what it is and works the way it does despite anyone's beliefs about it.  Period.  Death will treat you the same as everyone else equally with no regard for your beliefs as to whether an after life exists or not.
 

True, reality is what it is, but my reality do not necessarily fit with your reality, and thats where we humans have our first obstacle to conquer and find a middle way around it, and thats where the government comes in as a great tool for good and bad. 
 

When it comes to final death moment, and after death, do we really know anything? I like to believe It is all black and done, but I can not be sure. 
 

When do your brain stop functioning if a normal death, do your life flash in front of you, will you feel any guilt or happiness when you die? I believe that moment you die, and are dying it will be a very individual experience based on you, your life, and how you feel loved or love somebody. 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I've given a lot of thought to presenting the concepts Seth lays out into easily digestible form but the devil is always in the details.  And the details are profuse.  Simple, but profuse.  Easy to understand but again, profuse.

I appreciate that you are trying to present complex concepts, and good for you for doing so, but when your posts go on for so long I'm sorry, but I'm not going to read them, despite probably missing out on some really interesting information. My mind just doesn't work on such a lot of information presented in a single post.

Perhaps others don't have that problem.

 

There's a good saying which I try to keep in mind "less is more". It works for me.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Hummin said:

True, reality is what it is, but my reality do not necessarily fit with your reality, and thats where we humans have our first obstacle to conquer and find a middle way around it, and thats where the government comes in as a great tool for good and bad. 
 

When it comes to final death moment, and after death, do we really know anything? I like to believe It is all black and done, but I can not be sure. 
 

When do your brain stop functioning if a normal death, do your life flash in front of you, will you feel any guilt or happiness when you die? I believe that moment you die, and are dying it will be a very individual experience based on you, your life, and how you feel loved or love somebody. 

I once thought I was going to die. My life did not flash before my eyes, and I did not have profound thoughts based on my life.

The only emotion I experienced was terror.

[thaibeachlovers]

I had one of those lightbulb moments this morning after I woke up.

 

It occurred to me that those that don't believe in a God have to accept that nothing is going to save this planet from the destruction mankind is wreaking on it, and when we have destroyed the environment to the point that human life is not possible anymore all humanity will become extinct, by our own doing.

 

At least those that believe have some hope that humanity will be saved from itself by a higher being.

[fusion58]

God is not a good theory.

 

Quote

If theism were really true there’s no reason for God to be hard to find. He should be perfectly obvious whereas in naturalism you might expect people to believe in God but the evidence to be thin on the ground.

 

Under theism you’d expect that religious beliefs should be universal. There’s no reason for God to give special messages to this or that primitive tribe thousands of years ago. Why not give it to anyone? Whereas under naturalism you’d expect different religious beliefs inconsistent with each other to grow up under different local conditions.

 

Under theism you’d expect religious doctrines to last a long time in a stable way. Under naturalism you’d expect them to adapt to social conditions.

 

Under theism you’d expect the moral teachings of religion to be transcendent, progressive, sexism is wrong, slavery is wrong. Under naturalism you’d expect they reflect, once again, local mores, sometimes good rules, sometimes not so good.

 

You’d expect the sacred texts, under theism, to give us interesting information. Tell us about the germ theory of disease. Tell us to wash our hands before we have dinner. Under naturalism you’d expect the sacred texts to be a mishmash—some really good parts, some poetic parts, and some boring parts and mythological parts.

 - Sean Carroll 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

9 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

The truth is that it's not easy material.  It's challenging, but not overly so.  I'm not the sharpest tool in the box and I have no problem in general.

I've given a lot of thought to presenting the concepts Seth lays out into easily digestible form but the devil is always in the details.  And the details are profuse.  Simple, but profuse.  Easy to understand but again, profuse.

Seth's information is not so much a better way of thinking, such as in a self-help type of way . . . think positive, for instance.  Rather his entire aim is to expose the true workings of reality.  And that can't get any more transformative.

For instance, if I wanted to be brief, to the point, and absolutely succinct in stating an absolute truth I could repeat a cornerstone of what he espouses:

You create your own reality.  There is no other main rule.

Now this cannot fly more directly in opposition to what most people believe.  That truth is rather shocking to people and more often than not it is a totally unacceptable premise based on lived experience.  Tell that to anyone who has just suffered a serious loss of one kind or another and you'd best run for cover.

Now I've often used Mark Twain's wonderfully astute observation that “What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so." as a warning that most actual truths are diametrically opposed to the "truths" that most folks subscribe to.  Another one of his quotes, at least arguably attributed to him is "it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."  This is also an astute observation that warns that once a person is convinced that something is true it's almost impossible to convince them it's not.

Another cornerstone of Seth's revelatory insights is contained in Jane Robert's 1963 essay entitled "The Universe As Idea Construction."

Both of these concepts, if understood and accepted, radically change the "rules of the game."  But these truths needn't just be accepted without evidence.  The evidence that this information is absolutely valid can easily be obtained by any individual who seriously desires to know it.  But the resultant changes in thinking, and behaviour, are absolutely transformative and the benefits cannot be overstated.

Take the idea that everyone creates their own reality.  Which means that no one else can create within one's reality.  Unless consent is given of course, which is usually done unconsciously.  No longer can one feel that they are a leaf at the mercy of the wind.  In fact, just the opposite.  For perhaps for the first time in one's life one can truly become the captain of their own ship, as they were meant to be.

On the other hand, as long as one believes that others, God or otherwise, or chance, luck or fate is the determinative force in one's life then one will more often than not short themselves and deny themselves the fulfillment of their desires and kneecap their given abilities and talents.

So you see, it's not about a better way of thinking, or a better way of living, but rather an awakening to the truth as to what the real rules of game are and what the actual laws of reality are.  For we all know that if we try to operate on laws which are in truth fictitious you can rest assured that trouble will follow in one form or another.  You don't see or hear of many people jumping off of tall structures in the hopes of flying.  Why?  Because most everyone by now understands the physical law of gravity.  In the same sense if other as yet unknown laws are just as well known and understood the effects would be massive for not only the individual but for the world.

One can look out into the world now and see the misery, death and destruction resulting from a perpetrated false reality built on a foundation of lies.  It ultimately collapses upon itself under the weight of it's own deception.

 

Concepts such as the universe as idea construction, for instance, are not simply superficially addressed.  Seth goes into granular detail as to the mechanics of how thought is transformed into physical reality.  No, it's not light reading.  But I guarantee that it will challenge as nothing has ever challenged you before.

Topics include everything from religion to animal consciousness to time to evolution to early man to All That Is (God, if you prefer) to Jesus Christ to past civilisations to reincarnation to alternate realities to how freedom works.  Seth's works comprise the most comprehensive explanations of who and what we are and the reality we find ourselves in from the perspective of someone who has participated in earthly reality and is now in a more expansive reality from which he can view ours.

If I knew of a way to make short script of so much knowledge I'd be more than happy to.  But I don't.  So I'm forced to produce long posts.  Then again, there are those who truly want to know and there are those whose curiosity is merely casual.  For those who truly want to know there are no complaints about lengthy reads or taxing one's brains.

None of what Seth brings to the table is theoretical and distant.  And all of it can be directly explored by anyone who so desires.  The proof is yours for the asking.

 

Thanks for explaining that. I don't quite get how we create our own reality or what it would mean in practical terms but I accept that I can't expect his many musings to be summarised in a few lines. 

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I appreciate that you are trying to present complex concepts, and good for you for doing so, but when your posts go on for so long I'm sorry, but I'm not going to read them, despite probably missing out on some really interesting information. My mind just doesn't work on such a lot of information presented in a single post.

Perhaps others don't have that problem.

 

There's a good saying which I try to keep in mind "less is more". It works for me.

Thanks for the appreciation, TBL.  So I'll keep it short for you.

"My mind just doesn't work on such a lot of information presented in a single post."

That statement is simply a belief.  A belief is an idea that is repeated over and over again.  And in this case one can easily see that it's a limiting belief.  Don't shortchange yourself.

Your mind is certainly capable of of processing a great deal of information and I'm sure have your own personal experience of instances in which you have done so.  Here's an applicable quote from Seth:  "There is no hope for the mentally lazy."

If the saying "less is more" is a universal truth then we would have college pamphlets rather than college textbooks.

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Thanks for explaining that. I don't quite get how we create our own reality or what it would mean in practical terms but I accept that I can't expect his many musings to be summarised in a few lines. 

You are correct.  No, they can't.  The information is vast.  Understanding takes effort.  The effort required is not overwhelming.  It's really no different than any other endeavour in life.  If you want to reach a goal you've set for yourself then what needs to be done is laid out if front of you.  One either accepts and does whatever it takes or not.  Often times people, via their non-stop mental dialogues with themselves, talk themselves out of it.  We are all very familiar with that internal process.

"You have taught yourselves to look outward into physical reality, but the inward validity of your being cannot be found there - only its effects."

Physical reality is a purely subjective construct.  It is the inside of you turned outward into a three dimensional medium which you have been taught to mistakenly accept as base reality.  Yet physical reality can only show the effects of your own inner reality.  Physical reality is nothing more than a faithful and perfect mirror of inner reality.  Therefore true change happens from the inside, not the outside.  When change occurs on the inside the outside must change.  It cannot be otherwise.  Physical reality must reflect inner reality.

Therefore you and everyone else, knowingly or not, consciously or not, willingly or not, creates personal inner reality which is then experienced physically.  As likened to a sounding board, you either like the results or not.  If you like the effects then keep on keeping on.  If not then the change needs to ideally come from the inside to change the outside.

Seth has used the analogy of a painter to describe the the tool which we use to create our reality.  The artist uses paint and applies it to a canvas to create a picture.  For us the paints are our thoughts and the canvas is the physical medium.  We literally, not figuratively, transform our thoughts into physical manifestations.  Seth goes into detail as to how this is accomplished for those who are curious as to how the process works.

So through our thoughts we create.  Since our thoughts are our own and no one can force us to think one way or another then we have supreme control over what gets manifested in our personal realities.  The practical terms of creating our own reality then become wholly obvious.

 

Imagination and emotion play crucial parts along with thoughts in producing our manifestations.  It's important to understand that our thoughts are not who we are.  As it is obvious that the paints an artist uses are not him then it should be understood that our thoughts, or ideas, are merely the paints we use for the production of our three dimensional, interactive paintings.  So again, the thoughts and ideas we use are not us.

Hopefully I've explained it well enough to satisfy your question.

[seedy]

22 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

despite almost universal education.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, seedy said:

 

Thanks for that. Perhaps I should preface everything I write with "western".

 

That any child today should be unwanted, unloved and deprived of education is an indictment of humanity, and just one of the reasons I believe humanity is doomed by our own hand.

Looking at the world I live in I wonder if we don't deserve to become extinct for being such a wicked species. We have the knowledge and the means to have Utopia on Earth, but we'd rather spend the money on better ways to kill each other.

 

If I believed that God had human emotions ( as many seem to believe- but I don't ) I'd think that "he'd" have washed his hands of us and left us to our demise.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, fusion58 said:

God is not a good theory.

 

 - Sean Carroll 

Have you considered that God doesn't care if we "find" God or not?

We are an insignificant species on an insignificant planet in an insignificant solar system in an insignificant galaxy, which is eventually going to join all those species that we exterminated on this planet.

So, looking at the universe as a whole, with uncountable trillions of stars, planets and lifeforms, my question is "why should God care about us?"

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If I believed that God had human emotions ( as many seem to believe- but I don't ) I'd think that "he'd" have washed his hands of us and left us to our demise

The parable of the prodigal son , which probably you heard of, is rather clear. 

As wicked as one could be, he's always given a 2nd chance.

To forgive is always the right thing to do, even from an egotistical point of view, as carrying hard feelings is counterproductive. 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Thanks for the appreciation, TBL.  So I'll keep it short for you.

"My mind just doesn't work on such a lot of information presented in a single post."

That statement is simply a belief.  A belief is an idea that is repeated over and over again.  And in this case one can easily see that it's a limiting belief.  Don't shortchange yourself.

Your mind is certainly capable of of processing a great deal of information and I'm sure have your own personal experience of instances in which you have done so.  Here's an applicable quote from Seth:  "There is no hope for the mentally lazy."

If the saying "less is more" is a universal truth then we would have college pamphlets rather than college textbooks.

Thanks for keeping it short.

Perhaps you are not old yet and don't understand that old minds do not work as well as young ones.

You can call it belief, but I call it old age.

 

In fact, I'm so old and decrepit that one of these days I'll be finding out for myself what is on the other side of the great divide.

 

BTW less is more is a certain truth, as one can certify with women and clothing. The LESS clothing they wear generally tends to elicit MORE prurient interest than a complete absence of clothing.

[Tippaporn]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thanks for that. Perhaps I should preface everything I write with "western".

 

That any child today should be unwanted, unloved and deprived of education is an indictment of humanity, and just one of the reasons I believe humanity is doomed by our own hand.

Looking at the world I live in I wonder if we don't deserve to become extinct for being such a wicked species. We have the knowledge and the means to have Utopia on Earth, but we'd rather spend the money on better ways to kill each other.

 

If I believed that God had human emotions ( as many seem to believe- but I don't ) I'd think that "he'd" have washed his hands of us and left us to our demise.

TBL, I nominate you for "Most Cynical Poster of the Year" award.

If short answers are all that you can handle then here's my reply.

Ignorance.  Ignorance which permits all that is "bad" and ignorance which is incapable of understanding it.

Now I've gotten into hot water before because of my use of the word ignorance.  Ignorance by it's definition is merely this:  lack of knowledge or information.  The word carries no judgement.  People attach judgement to the word, though.  I do not and I do not do so here.

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Tippaporn

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

The parable of the prodigal son , which probably you heard of, is rather clear. 

As wicked as one could be, he's always given a 2nd chance.

To forgive is always the right thing to do, even from an egotistical point of view, as carrying hard feelings is counterproductive. 

You are correct, but does God have emotions such as forgiveness?

BTW, was the prodigal son given more than a second chance? I tend to the belief that humanity has had more than a second chance.

[Tippaporn]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thanks for keeping it short.

Perhaps you are not old yet and don't understand that old minds do not work as well as young ones.

You can call it belief, but I call it old age.

 

In fact, I'm so old and decrepit that one of these days I'll be finding out for myself what is on the other side of the great divide.

 

BTW less is more is a certain truth, as one can certify with women and clothing. The LESS clothing they wear generally tends to elicit MORE prurient interest than a complete absence of clothing.

"Perhaps you are not old yet and don't understand that old minds do not work as well as young ones."

Yes, that is a belief as well.  Just remember, be prepared to own what you believe.

There are people in the world who are sick.  And, surprisingly, they do not want to get well.  Their illness serves a purpose for them.

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Tippaporn

[mauGR1]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

You are correct, but does God have emotions such as forgiveness?

BTW, was the prodigal son given more than a second chance? I tend to the belief that humanity has had more than a second chance.

I cannot answer directly to your question, but i am sure that i am not in a position to define God's limits or boundaries. 

As i believe in karma, or law of cause and effect, we are taught lessons in life, until we learn how to behave.

Karma being a divine design though, deserves a careful investigation, and I'm not at the stage where i can say that i completely understand it.