Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have come to believe that I must have been a very bad guy last time around, and this time I'm learning to suffer from bad people. I certainly have suffered and usually from bad people, but I sometimes wonder if it's just that there are a lot of bad people out there and everybody suffers.

I suppose I won't know which it is till I exit this life.

Most of those " bad people " are not aware of " being bad", they are just blinded by focusing on the material world and their egotistical goals.

It's true that everyone is suffering in one way or another, even those who seem to be the most fortunate, but, i speak for myself here, sufferings have made me explore and expand my consciousness. 

Joy and sorrow are 2 polarities, and i believe there are lots to learn from both.

[Hummin]

39 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

While it's true that human brain, compared to body's weight, is bigger than animals', and our nervous system more developed, there is more than the physical reality to differentiate us from animals. 

To make it short, it's about consciousness, which is doesn't come from the brain. 

I think the brain can be compared to a computer, and there's an ego in charge of the computer. 

If it was just about the brain, every human would display the same level of consciousness, and that's clearly not the case.

If you are talking about the road to Nirvana, there is several life you have to go through before you enter consensus state, right?

 

I would rather say, there is to much influence from very young from every corner of your life, but if you are for some reason, not followed up as much as you should as a kid, abused, harassed, bullied, I believe that could be a great gate opener, as well parents and surroundings who also is spiritual guiding you feom early age.

 

I know from experience that people who did not have a great childhood more often become spiritual gifted, but not as a rule.

 

Not sure how this came out, struggling with my words today, as usual, but a bit more today

 

And I believe some animals have intelligence as we learn more and more through researches, as well some researches state they have consensus. a google search for animals consensus gives a few fruity links.

 

Squid? 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Hummin

[Hummin]

Are we alone in or with our consensus? 

 

I do not believe in being reborn, I believe in eternal life by creating life by spreading your genes, and you pass on a piece of yourself and your ancestors. I do not believe in eternal personal conscious, but maybe we are hooked up to the universal hub, but humans loosing that connection because of to much distractions. Meaning modern life distracted and seperated from the Nature. Wild Animals is more unified, and often more true to themselves as well more in balance with themselves and the nature. We have left our true nature and now so distanced and lost as it can be. Sad to say, but true. 

 

In 2012, the Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness crystallised a scientific consensus that humans are not the only conscious beings and that ‘non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses’ possess neurological substrates complex enough to support conscious experiences.

 

Read more

https://www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/fulltext/S1364-6613(20)30192-3#:~:text=There is an emerging consensus,octopuses%2C squid%2C cuttlefish).

 

 

Animals are conscious and should be treated as such

Now that scientists have belatedly declared that mammals, birds and many other animals are conscious, it is time for society to act

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528836-200-animals-are-conscious-and-should-be-treated-as-such/

 

Scientists Conclude Nonhuman Animals Are Conscious Beings

Didn't we already know this? Yes, we did

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/animal-emotions/201208/scientists-conclude-nonhuman-animals-are-conscious-beings

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

And I believe some animals have intelligence as we learn more and more through researches, as well some researches state they have consensus. a google search for animals consensus gives a few fruity links.

I had to google "animal consensus", and yes, of course animals are intelligent and conscious to various degrees. 

Yes, I'd guess a soul has to live many lives to achieve freedom from the cycle of incarnations. 

In some way, every little action of today, reflects the past and creates the future.

Some say that past and future don't really exist, but an infinite present moment exists, and that concept makes me think ???? it seems true, but hard to grasp.

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

And I believe some animals have intelligence

Just to make things clear, the indisputable fact that animals are intelligent, is not in contradiction with the observation that animals' intelligence originates from a "group soul".

In the same way, Theosophists and Anthroposophists are not disputing the achievements of natural science, but try to integrate it with a spiritual point of view.

[Sunmaster]

Good points being discussed here. And some clueless posters still accuse us of debating Noah's Ark, lol.

I'm one of those who believe that time is a human construct and only bound to our material 3D plane. Time ceases to exist, at least the way we perceive it, as soon as we step out of 3D. As an example, if we are 2 dimensional creatures and need to go from A to B, the law of our 2D world would dictate that the shortest way would be a straight line.
However, as a 3D creature, we look at the paper with the 2 points and simply fold the paper so that the 2 points would touch each other with no distance at all.
In the same way, what we perceive as a rigid rule of our material world (time), is very different to what it would be in 4D, 5D and so on.

That said, if time is not existent in higher dimensions, the implications become very interesting. For one, the age old question of "Who created God?" or "Was there a beginning?" become irrelevant. If something exists outside time, then there can't be a beginning nor an end, which are only pertinent to 3D time.

Furthermore, the questions of "past life" or "future life" are based on our understanding that time is linear, but are equally wrong. There are no past lives. There may be multiple incarnations in 3D, but from a perspective higher than 3D, they are all happening at the same time, right now. And for this reason it is also interesting to note that we can influence these other incarnations to some degree and perhaps even consciously benefit from their personal experiences. 

Difficult to grasp, but I believe this to be true.

[Hummin]

41 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Just to make things clear, the indisputable fact that animals are intelligent, is not in contradiction with the observation that animals' intelligence originates from a "group soul".

In the same way, Theosophists and Anthroposophists are not disputing the achievements of natural science, but try to integrate it with a spiritual point of view.

What is is really spirituality, as we only know human code for it. Animals feel, think, dream and makes planes, and all we as humans can believe, it is pure genetic memory and instincts, and as today, that may be true, because we do not have enough evidence to prove it. Sounds familiar? Even some people state they know, because they interact with animals daily, and communicate with them on another level than we normal can do!

 

Which make sense compare to what some human spiritualists say about humans solely, and believe humans are the only ones, because they have not found the connection to the trees, animals and maybe the most important living specie, fungus, natures central system for everything we know.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Hummin

[ravip]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In my belief, everything on the planet is part of "nature" ie part of God force, so while our bodies are animal, our brain makes us different from animals that are controlled by genes- we have imagination and the ability to choose what we do. Imagine if sheep had imagination- would they be content to just eat grass while waiting to become food?

We stand out from the animals with our imagination. 

 

But, on the whole,  who has done it better? 

Animals or us - with our 'superiority'?

Imagine a world where humans are equal to animals. 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Most of those " bad people " are not aware of " being bad", they are just blinded by focusing on the material world and their egotistical goals.

It's true that everyone is suffering in one way or another, even those who seem to be the most fortunate, but, i speak for myself here, sufferings have made me explore and expand my consciousness. 

Joy and sorrow are 2 polarities, and i believe there are lots to learn from both.

Actually, most of the bad people in my life really were bad people, not "good people" that erred a bit.

However, most people in the world suffer, and always have, which leads me to wonder if the bad guys are winning.

[mauGR1]

17 minutes ago, Hummin said:

What is is really spirituality, as we only know human code for it..

I don't know what do you mean for "human code".

As for "what is spirituality ' ,I'd bet you'd get as many answers as any human being on this planet. 

As far as i know, everything we perceive as material, is a manifestation of the spirit, and that includes animals, plants and minerals, and from the biggest star to the tiniest of atoms.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Hummin said:

If you are talking about the road to Nirvana, there is several life you have to go through before you enter consensus state, right?

Personally, I think we return to heaven ( or nirvana or paradise ) every time we die, and stay there till we return to another life form in this reality.

Of course no one alive remembers what it was like.

 

A long time ago I looked after a new born child that looked at me with intelligence after being born, but after it went to sleep it forgot and became a normal baby.

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't know what do you mean for "human code".

As for "what is spirituality ' ,I'd bet you'd get as many answers as any human being on this planet. 

As far as i know, everything we perceive as material, is a manifestation of the spirit, and that includes animals, plants and minerals, and from the biggest star to the tiniest of atoms.

I see that one is a bit tricky. Code for understanding is sharing with each other our experiences, and find similarities as well be present without words or pictures, feel the same, sense the same, and even manage to debrief our experiences together, which we can not easily do on same level with plants and animals unless you have a strong connection.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Hummin

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually, most of the bad people in my life really were bad people, not "good people" that erred a bit.

However, most people in the world suffer, and always have, which leads me to wonder if the bad guys are winning.

Surely there's a battle going on, perhaps it's part of life, and it will never end.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

Animals are conscious and should be treated as such

Now that scientists have belatedly declared that mammals, birds and many other animals are conscious, it is time for society to act

They have consciousness to the point their genes allow, but no way we humans are going to give up our yummy meat.

 

BTW, if we had to give animals human like intelligence, almost all farm animals would be allowed to die out as of no value if can't earn money as produce.

 

PS. IMO the person that decided that animals are intelligent never raised sheep for a living.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Surely there's a battle going on, perhaps it's part of life, and it will never end.

Indeed, ying and yang, good against evil, the battle will rage till the earth dies.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

I had to google "animal consensus", and yes, of course animals are intelligent and conscious to various degrees. 

Yes, I'd guess a soul has to live many lives to achieve freedom from the cycle of incarnations. 

In some way, every little action of today, reflects the past and creates the future.

Some say that past and future don't really exist, but an infinite present moment exists, and that concept makes me think ???? it seems true, but hard to grasp.

Some say that past and future don't really exist, but an infinite present moment exists

 

Given that everything we are is based on electricity, how do we know that we are not just living in the NOW, and all our memories are not just manufactured?

I'm talking about the Matrix.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I see that one is a bit tricky. Code for understanding is sharing with each other our experiences, and find similarities as well be present without words or pictures, feel the same, sense the same, and even manage to debrief our experiences together, which we can not easily do on same level with plants and animals unless you have a strong connection.

Yes, i agree that sharing experiences is most important, and surely one of the reasons why i like these kinds of conversation. 

Animals, plants and minerals are great teachers too !

I believe that the connection with nature which you're talking about is not too difficult to achieve in the right place, at the right time and with the right attitude, or even better with no attitude at all.

[Hummin]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They have consciousness to the point their genes allow, but no way we humans are going to give up our yummy meat.

 

BTW, if we had to give animals human like intelligence, almost all farm animals would be allowed to die out as of no value if can't earn money as produce.

 

PS. IMO the person that decided that animals are intelligent never raised sheep for a living.

My sheep is not same as any others ????

 

Not true, we had sheep's on our farm when young, but we didnt interact with them like house animals on that level, but as a food.

 

Later in life we had sheep's that indeed had personalities and indeed are intelligent. Not going to try to convince anyone here, but we all know stereotypes humans, who we do not believe is intelligent, but often when you manage to connect with them have a totally different level you did not believe from the beginning.

 

It is mostly about where you are born, who gave you your genes, economic, timing, luck and society around you. Coincidences you can say, as well one in 100 manage to brake out of the evil family pattern 7 generation of family sin.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Hummin

[Hummin]

23 minutes ago, ravip said:

We stand out from the animals with our imagination. 

 

But, on the whole,  who has done it better? 

Animals or us - with our 'superiority'?

Imagine a world where humans are equal to animals. 

Many animals still existing since dinosaur area ????

[mauGR1]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some say that past and future don't really exist, but an infinite present moment exists

 

Given that everything we are is based on electricity, how do we know that we are not just living in the NOW, and all our memories are not just manufactured?

I'm talking about the Matrix.

In theory everything is just an illusion, but i guess that to reconcile that perception/opinion with the reality we perceive thru our physical senses is not the easiest job in the world. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by mauGR1

[RamenRaven]

This question would make no sense to a typical Thai Buddhist. I'd say that they're agnostic animists.

 

There is no concept of an all-powerful God who punishes churchgoers if they stray off into heresy.

 

There's just an interconnected web of life that is inhabited by countless spirits.

 

So for those of us who have gone local, it's safe to say that this question no longer makes any sense to us.

[ravip]

On 2/22/2023 at 10:00 AM, mauGR1 said:

In theory everything is just an illusion, but i guess that to reconcile that perception/opinion with the reality we perceive thru our physical senses is not the easiest job in the world. 

I agree on this.

Each person has his/her own belief  - every one is correct - as in the end... it's all ends similarly. 

The differences are in the living beings.

[Hummin]

21 minutes ago, ravip said:

I agree on this.

Each person has his/her own belief  - every one is correct - as in the end... it's all ends similarly. 

The differences are in the living beings.

Hell is your own guilt playing with you and your reality, and heaven is when you have freed yourselves from all guilt. Does it makes sense?

[Neeranam]

On 2/22/2023 at 10:14 AM, Sunmaster said:

That said, if time is not existent in higher dimensions, the implications become very interesting. For one, the age old question of "Who created God?" or "Was there a beginning?" become irrelevant. If something exists outside time, then there can't be a beginning nor an end, which are only pertinent to 3D time.

Furthermore, the questions of "past life" or "future life" are based on our understanding that time is linear, but are equally wrong. There are no past lives.

Time is cyclic. 

 

I've been regressed to a previous life, on TV.

 

Do you think you are more knowledgeable than 3 billion Buddists/Hindus?

 

Do you know more than the Dalai Lama, for example?

 

I find that that humble people have clearer sight than others

[Neeranam]

59 minutes ago, RamenRaven said:

This question would make no sense to a typical Thai Buddhist. I'd say that they're agnostic animists.

No, animism is not Buddhism.

Granted, there are small amounts of animism, fetishism, and Hinduism mixed into many Thais' beliefs. 

[RamenRaven]

Just now, Neeranam said:

No, animism is not Buddhism.

Granted, there are small amounts of animism, fetishism, and Hinduism mixed into many Thais' beliefs. 

In practice, it's 95% animism here, even though it's all labeled as Buddhism.

 

Actual Buddhism involving nirvana, non-attachment, the eightfold path, and other Buddhist concepts are limited to more advanced monks.

 

Most people make offerings to spirits so that they can get rich. They will give you blank stares if you talk to them about how true Buddhism is about non-attachment to material objects.

 

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, RamenRaven said:

In practice, it's 95% animism here, even though it's all labeled as Buddhism.

 

Actual Buddhism involving nirvana, non-attachment, the eightfold path, and other Buddhist concepts are limited to more advanced monks.

 

Most people make offerings to spirits so that they can get rich. They will give you blank stares if you talk to them about how true Buddhism is about non-attachment to material objects.

 

I'm not sure you long you have lived here or if you are a Buddhist or not. 

I am Thai, not a Buddhist, but spent time in Suan Mokh, the temple of a revered monk, Aj Buddhadassa Bikhu, and assure you they are the pure form of Therevadn Buddhism. I've also spent time in McLeoad Ganj, studying Tibetan Buddhism, where I met HH Dalia Lama. 

I suspect you have been exposed to Chinese Thais, or perhaps gold-digging women ????

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Neeranam

[Sunmaster]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Time is cyclic. 

 

I've been regressed to a previous life, on TV.

 

Do you think you are more knowledgeable than 3 billion Buddists/Hindus?

 

Do you know more than the Dalai Lama, for example?

 

I find that that humble people have clearer sight than others

Not sure what warranted such a salty reply.

 

Anyway, what you say and what Buddhists say, does in no way contradict what I theorised about. 

Time is cyclical yes...in our 3D world. Beyond that, time as we know it ceases to exist. This is in line with Buddhist teachings when they speak about  timelessness.

 

Enlightenment is ‘timeless’. It is an experience beyond the process of the mind conditioned by time. Hence, it is beyond time and therefore beyond the thought process. It is the experiencing of the ‘timeless present’. It is where pure ‘dhamma’ operates - simultaneous arising and ceasing. It is the experiencing of the reality. It is the experiencing of pure ‘dhamma’ beyond mind made time dimension. It is where the thought process activated by ‘kilesas’ does not operate. It is where the reality exists and illusion of ‘self’ is realised. It is the realisation of the mind’s own ignorance with the dawn of wisdom. It is where personalisation does not exist.

(From http://tibetanbuddhistencyclopedia.com/en/index.php/The_Concept_of_Timelessness_in_Buddhism#:~:text=Our life exists within the,concept we are adhered to.)

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

Not sure what warranted such a salty reply.

I apologise if it came across as salty.  Not sure why you think that but...

 

[Sunmaster]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I apologise if it came across as salty.  Not sure why you think that but...

 

Maybe the fact that you accused me of not being humble enough? Or of pretending to know more than the Dalai Lama and millions of Buddhists?