Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I've been thinking about religion a lot lately. Don't know how many there are in the world. Maybe a dozen or so. Then there are the side religions; break-offs from the main one; like Christianity breaking away from Catholicism. Or Islam coming from Judaism.

 

I suggest a new religion; based on Nature. It could have bits and pieces from other religions put in, but essentially my religion would be simple. Five rules:::

 

1 - Respect and care for nature.

2 - Do not unnecessarily harm living things.

3 - At all times attempt to leave the earth unadulterated for the next generation.

4 - Do no harm to fellow humans.

5 - Treat others as you would like to be treated.

Some of us are already there, but it's nothing to do with religion, rather a way of life.

[brianthainess]

Pretty obvious to me if there is a god of any kind it doesn't like animals, but seems to like watching all suffer, pain. On the other hand it likes viruses and bacteria to thrive. 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Wicca, Paganism, shamanism, Taoism ... worship nature.

IMO worshiping anything is what religions do and I reject all religions. Most of the "nature religions" involve dressing up like a nutter and talking to trees or other suchlike nonsense.

There was ( is ) a community in Britain that loved nature and lived wholesome lives, but I could never live in a community that expected me to ask permission of a carrot before I pulled it out of the ground.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Pretty obvious to me if there is a god of any kind it doesn't like animals, but seems to like watching all suffer, pain. On the other hand it likes viruses and bacteria to thrive. 

Nature is designed to stop species exceeding their allotted space, by the use of diseases etc, but humans invented antibiotics and suchlike to do so and look at the mess we have got into.

Nature uses extinction for such folly, so counting down for humanity.........

[brianthainess]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Nature is designed to stop species exceeding their allotted space, by the use of diseases etc, but humans invented antibiotics and suchlike to do so and look at the mess we have got into.

Nature uses extinction for such folly, so counting down for humanity.........

So who "invented" nature? 

[owl sees all]

12 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Just telling people not to murder doesn't seem to work. Moses tried that already. 

Do unto others .. Jesus tried that. Doesn't always work too well. 

 

There have been religions that respect nature ... nobody knows about them because the current mainstream religions have taken up all the attention. 

 

Wicca, Paganism, shamanism, Taoism, Native Indians ... worship nature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_worship#:~:text=Nature worship is often considered,theism and paganism including Wicca.

 

I'm not so well-versed about religions. But I think there should be certain pointers to being a good person.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, brianthainess said:

So who "invented" nature? 

God

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

I'm not so well-versed about religions. But I think there should be certain pointers to being a good person.

All people know what is good and what is bad, unless they do not have a concience. Being human they can choose to ignore it though, and many do.

[owl sees all]

49 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I didn't come into existence by random chance. My mother and my father did something that made me, on purpose.

I don't agree with you here TBL.

 

You, and me, and all of us, are here by pure chance. As for that time your mum and dad 'did something'. Well! That particular wriggly, at that fortuitous time of the right egg, got there first. The others were spewed out every month or finished up a wet patch on the bed.

 

This is the beauty of nature.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

Somehow it is funny that some believers have so many doubts that after 4 years and 17,888 posts they are still trying to convince each other that there is a god. Amazing! 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Somehow it is funny that some believers have so many doubts that after 4 years and 17,888 posts they are still trying to convince each other that there is a god. Amazing! 

 

 

Actually only a few tried to convince other people that God exists, and for myself I don't give a rat's bottom if anyone doesn't believe . That's their business, and I'm not trying to convert anyone.

[Sunmaster]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Somehow it is funny that some believers have so many doubts that after 4 years and 17,888 posts they are still trying to convince each other that there is a god. Amazing! 

 

 

Having doubts is good. The real problem is when one thinks he has the ultimate answer to the deepest questions in life and that answer then must apply to everyone else. This happens to believers and non-believers alike.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Having doubts is good. The real problem is when one thinks he has the ultimate answer to the deepest questions in life and that answer then must apply to everyone else. This happens to believers and non-believers alike.

That condition is called stupid and ignorant. The Dunning-Kruger effect is possibly also part of it. 

[save the frogs]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO worshiping anything is what religions do and I reject all religions. Most of the "nature religions" involve dressing up like a nutter and talking to trees or other suchlike nonsense.

There was ( is ) a community in Britain that loved nature and lived wholesome lives, but I could never live in a community that expected me to ask permission of a carrot before I pulled it out of the ground.

The film Avatar might be based on some sort of religion.

The blue folks live in nature, commune with nature, are at one with nature, believe nature is sacred. 

 

 

 

[Tippaporn]

Hello, old friends!!

And goodbye!!!

Temporarily, that is.  Inside joke.

I saw a flourish of activity and couldn't resist putting in my two cents, if even briefly.

The Physical Universe As Idea Construction.

Kudos to anyone who can understand that most succinct yet utterly true statement.  For those who are as yet unable to understand it I say that it is well worth the effort for it is very much a key that unlocks the door to the mystery of creation.

You create your own reality.

Another key.

You get what you concentrate on.  There is no other main rule.

Another key.

There are only two things one could ever think of.  What is wanted and what is unwanted.

Another key.

The present moment is your point of power.

Another key.

Geezus, I feel like I'm handing out the keys to the goddamned kingdom. 

With that I'll disappear for a short while.  Hopefully when I get back I'll be welcomed with many heartwarming posts about how I, too, was missed.   

Hey, nothing wrong with making a guy feel useful in life. 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Tippaporn

[save the frogs]

9 hours ago, save the frogs said:

The film Avatar might be based on some sort of religion.

 

Ok, Avatar continued ...

 

https://ladygeekgirl.wordpress.com/2014/11/16/oh-my-pop-culture-religion-avatar-eywa-and-faith/

 

The Na’vi are governed by Eywa ... the Na’vi don’t believe that Eywa is real so much as they know she’s real. Eywa is a biological presence on their world that they and the animals can literally talk to and hold whole conversations with. We discover that Eywa is a system of plants covering the planet and that she can connect to every animal and person through neuro-conductive antennae. And indeed, the natives and all the creatures have tail-like growths coming out of their own heads that they can use to literally plug themselves into Eywa and talk to her. 

 

Avatar doesn’t tell us to respect nature because that’s the right thing to do. It tells us to respect nature because nature is a living entity governing us. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, save the frogs said:

The film Avatar might be based on some sort of religion.

The blue folks live in nature, commune with nature, are at one with nature, believe nature is sacred. 

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with believing nature is sacred ( I believe that nature is part of God, so if I subscribed to religion { I don't } I'd say it was sacred ). The problem is when one or more people put on silly hats and proclaim that they hold the attention of god(s), and for a price they will ask the god(s) to help out.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Hello, old friends!!

And goodbye!!!

Temporarily, that is.  Inside joke.

I saw a flourish of activity and couldn't resist putting in my two cents, if even briefly.

The Physical Universe As Idea Construction.

Kudos to anyone who can understand that most succinct yet utterly true statement.  For those who are as yet unable to understand it I say that it is well worth the effort for it is very much a key that unlocks the door to the mystery of creation.

You create your own reality.

Another key.

You get what you concentrate on.  There is no other main rule.

Another key.

There are only two things one could ever think of.  What is wanted and what is unwanted.

Another key.

The present moment is your point of power.

Another key.

Geezus, I feel like I'm handing out the keys to the goddamned kingdom. 

With that I'll disappear for a short while.  Hopefully when I get back I'll be welcomed with many heartwarming posts about how I, too, was missed.   

Hey, nothing wrong with making a guy feel useful in life. 

 

Hello and goodbye. Miss you? Not really- posters come and go, come back and leave again. Such is life on a forum.

 

The Physical Universe As Idea Construction.

 

Thinking about that, one might assume that the universe exists in the "mind" of God.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

Avatar doesn’t tell us to respect nature because that’s the right thing to do. It tells us to respect nature because nature is a living entity governing us. 

I respect nature because if we don't nature will <deleted> us up, as in idiots that build on flood plains, fire zones, coastal regions subject to erosion, and destroy the environment that they live in.

Sadly, most people apparently think they are more powerful than nature, and then complain when they find out it ain't so.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, owl sees all said:

I don't agree with you here TBL.

 

You, and me, and all of us, are here by pure chance. As for that time your mum and dad 'did something'. Well! That particular wriggly, at that fortuitous time of the right egg, got there first. The others were spewed out every month or finished up a wet patch on the bed.

 

This is the beauty of nature.

 

That sperm was the chosen one.

[Red Phoenix]

11 hours ago, save the frogs said:

The film Avatar might be based on some sort of religion.

The blue folks live in nature, commune with nature, are at one with nature, believe nature is sacred. 

 

~

The knowledge, beliefs and values of the Na’vi are most akin to those of the native American Indian tribes.  Check out the wisdom of Chief Seattle (as well as many other native American Indian chiefs).

Chief Seattle or Sealth (Lushootseed: siʔaɬ) (c. 1786 – June 7, 1866) was a leader of the Suquamish and Duwamish Native American tribes in what is now Washington state.

One of his most famous quotes reads:

The Earth does not belong to us: we belong to the Earth. There is no death, only a change of worlds.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Red Phoenix

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:16 PM, Red Phoenix said:

Chief Seattle or Sealth (Lushootseed: siʔaɬ) (c. 1786 – June 7, 1866) was a leader of the Suquamish and Duwamish Native American tribes in what is now Washington state.

One of his most famous quotes reads:

The Earth does not belong to us: we belong to the Earth. There is no death, only a change of worlds.

and if the Earth has any sense it will rid itself of humans ASAP.

While the dinosaurs were not always nice animals, they didn't destroy forests, pollute the oceans and the air, and kill each other in the millions, yet they were exterminated.

Edited November 28, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[VincentRJ]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and if the Earth has any sense it will rid itself of humans ASAP.

While the dinosaurs were not always nice animals, they didn't destroy forests, pollute the oceans and the air, and kill each other in the millions, yet they were exterminated.

 

C'mon now! The damage done to the planet through natural processes, has far exceeded the damage done by humans during our entire history, including all the wars, atomic bomb explosions, nuclear accidents, toxic waste and general pollution.

 

Consider all the damage done by earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tectonic plate movement, asteroid strikes, lightning strikes combined with wind and dry weather which have burnt much larger areas of forests in the past, without the presence of human intervention, and natural viruses and bacteria causing widespread pandemics, and so on.

 

Whilst you've probably heard of the 5 mass extictions that are claimed to have occurred during the past 500 million years, degrees of extinction rates are a continuous process of natural evolution. The following article provides some details.

 

"There’s a natural background rate to the timing and frequency of extinctions: 10% of species are lost every million years, 30% every 10 million years, and 65% every 100 million years. It would be wrong to assume that species going extinct is out of line with what we would expect. Evolution occurs through the balance of extinction – the end of species – and speciation – the creation of new ones."

 

https://ourworldindata.org/mass-extinctions#:~:text=There have been five mass,history - Our World in Data

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

C'mon now! The damage done to the planet through natural processes, has far exceeded the damage done by humans during our entire history, including all the wars, atomic bomb explosions, nuclear accidents, toxic waste and general pollution.

 

Consider all the damage done by earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tectonic plate movement, asteroid strikes, lightning strikes combined with wind and dry weather which have burnt much larger areas of forests in the past, without the presence of human intervention, and natural viruses and bacteria causing widespread pandemics, and so on.

 

Whilst you've probably heard of the 5 mass extictions that are claimed to have occurred during the past 500 million years, degrees of extinction rates are a continuous process of natural evolution. The following article provides some details.

 

"There’s a natural background rate to the timing and frequency of extinctions: 10% of species are lost every million years, 30% every 10 million years, and 65% every 100 million years. It would be wrong to assume that species going extinct is out of line with what we would expect. Evolution occurs through the balance of extinction – the end of species – and speciation – the creation of new ones."

 

https://ourworldindata.org/mass-extinctions#:~:text=There have been five mass,history - Our World in Data

The difference is that they were natural occurrences and what humans do is un natural. When one considers that we have almost totally polluted the oceans and we are still only 8 billion in number, the planet will really suffer when  it gets to 16 billion. It's not too late for Gaia to salvage something from the wreckage before it's irrevocable.

 

If you found out that a lodger in your house was a homicidal maniac, would you let him stay there just because he hadn't murdered your family, yet?

Edited November 29, 2023 by thaibeachlovers

[VincentRJ]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The difference is that they were natural occurrences and what humans do is un natural. When one considers that we have almost totally polluted the oceans and we are still only 8 billion in number, the planet will really suffer when  it gets to 16 billion. It's not too late for Gaia to salvage something from the wreckage before it's irrevocable.

Humans are natural beings. We evolved from ape-like creatures and developed a capacity for abstract thought and complex language, which gives us some advantage over other species, but we still have difficulty combatting invisibly tiny creatures, such as viruses and bacteria, which can cause more damage than a world war. More people died as a result of the 'Spanish Flu', during and after WW1, than were killed in combat during the war.

 

As countries become wealthier, their populations tend to decline. I doubt we will ever reach 16 billion, but even 16 billion humans would weigh far less than the total mass of earth worms in the ground. Let's get things in perspective. 

 

[Walker88]

On 11/26/2023 at 2:40 AM, Sunmaster said:

There is certainly some truth to this, but I think it barely scratches the surface of the issue.
Accepting the thought that we are more than just biological machines is not just a backward evolutionary crutch that can be left behind thanks to some recent scientific discovery. 
Stress reduction is a welcomed byproduct of such a worldview, but definitely not the main goal. 
People believe because they need meaning in their lives. A meaning that goes beyond mere biological existence. Who am I? Why am I here? What is the meaning of all this? Why is there suffering? However advanced, science will never be able to answer these questions. It's neither its duty nor its goal. That's why people turn either to organized religion or perhaps seek a more personal relationship to the Divine. 

 

It's a fact that humans have a material body. It's NOT a fact that THAT is all we are. That is a belief like many others. If you like to limit yourself to a biological machine, no problem, but please don't apply your belief to the rest of us. 

What is a fact is that there is absolutely no evidence that humans are anything more than a biological machine, whose 'consciousness' is a function of biology, chemistry, and electromagnetism.

 

Watch the decline of a person with dementia and this becomes abundantly clear. The same can be observed when a person suffers a traumatic brain injury. What they were is no more. Where did they go? They went nowhere; it's only the neurons and parts of the brain that made them what they once were no longer function, so that part of who they were no longer exists.

 

It is a funny bit of delusion that a person with advanced Alzheimers, who even forgets how to swallow at the end, in the instant of death becomes everything they ever were again, all their memories and personality intact. That may well be comforting for some people, but it has zero basis in fact. And if the dead don't become what they were again, but become something new, they don't remember their previous iteration anyway. Thus, the only point belief has is that some need that comfort while alive. Some do not.

 

I accept that I am a biological machine, whose existence will end for all eternity at some point. My 'meaning' comes from my ability to enjoy this brief existence and the time and space I share with others.

 

As Sam Harris has said, the term 'atheist' is kind of silly. There is no similar term for those who don't believe in astrology, yet there is no more proof any deity is real than astrology is real.

 

Some like to scaremonger and say if I don't believe what they believe, I will suffer some sort of eternal punishment. Okay, which deity or deities are the One True one or ones? Pascal's Wager wasn't an either/or, it was a lottery ticket, because somebody could choose Jesus and then die and find out the One True God is Allah or Shiva or Thor or Zeus or Amaterasu. Choose wrong and one is plumb out of luck getting 72 virgins or drinking ale with Odin in Valhalla.

[Walker88]

On 11/26/2023 at 3:29 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps many don't want to face reality, but reality says that for most of the human species, life is indeed random and short, though nothing proves consciousness is finite. The biological machine that carries us around ends, though it just becomes something else as nothing is actually lost on the planet, just gets recycled.

 

 

Similarly nothing proves that the cashier at Food Gourmet who ran up my purchases did not create the Universe last Monday.

 

As for consciousness, there is zero evidence that it continues after the neurons stop firing. Yes, our atoms get recycled, but since there are maybe 10^27 of them in the brain, the odds they reconnect in exactly the same way are slim to none.

 

Drink a glass of water and it's likely at least one oxygen atom was part of Caesar, but I don't feel any stab wounds when I take a sip.

[Walker88]

On 11/26/2023 at 3:35 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

How does it feel to believe that your existence is so devoid of meaning that it ends when the biological chariot breathes it's last? IMO that's rather sad.

How does it feel?

 

Exactly the same as if I believed in deities. Sunsets are as lovely, food tastes just as good, a hug is just as satisfying.

 

Deluding myself into pretending some meaning that comes from some creator would take away from the meaning I derive simply from being able to enjoy this brief existence and the people with whom I share time and space.

 

Most people come into existence because somebody was horny. I find that kind of funny. What's funnier, however, is that people think there are some deities watching the whooping, who then send an order to their celestial factory to churn out another 'soul' and stick it where dad just stuck something else.

[thaibeachlovers]

27 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Humans are natural beings. We evolved from ape-like creatures and developed a capacity for abstract thought and complex language, which gives us some advantage over other species, but we still have difficulty combatting invisibly tiny creatures, such as viruses and bacteria, which can cause more damage than a world war. More people died as a result of the 'Spanish Flu', during and after WW1, than were killed in combat during the war.

 

As countries become wealthier, their populations tend to decline. I doubt we will ever reach 16 billion, but even 16 billion humans would weigh far less than the total mass of earth worms in the ground. Let's get things in perspective. 

 

LOL. One man with a chainsaw can destroy more trees than natural causes, and one man driving a bulldozer can do more damage than a million years of weather.

 

Humans evolved from a lower species, and used their brains to become monsters. If we can't treasure the planet, the source of our life, we do not deserve to inhabit it.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

How does it feel?

 

Exactly the same as if I believed in deities. Sunsets are as lovely, food tastes just as good, a hug is just as satisfying.

 

Deluding myself into pretending some meaning that comes from some creator would take away from the meaning I derive simply from being able to enjoy this brief existence and the people with whom I share time and space.

 

Most people come into existence because somebody was horny. I find that kind of funny. What's funnier, however, is that people think there are some deities watching the whooping, who then send an order to their celestial factory to churn out another 'soul' and stick it where dad just stuck something else.

I don't know where you got that mumbo jumbo from, but it certainly wasn't from me. I don't think God gives us any more concern than we give the flies we kill. Universe created, now left to get on with it as best it can.