Do you believe in God and why

[KhunLA]

Atheist that I am, this explains GOD perfectly ...

 

[owl sees all]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Atheist that I am, this explains GOD perfectly ...

 

Nature is 'god'.

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

I'll address this to you as well, @Red Phoenix.

 

What I think about Swami Sarvapriyananda doesn't really matter.  If I tell you what I disagree with and why then you would only filter that information through your current beliefs and reject all that does not fit.  You would then only defend what your beliefs are.  We've been through this with the ego and so any analysis of mine of the Swami will only be same.  You've accepted your path and are adamant that that is the path you will follow.  Who am I to dissuade you with contrary information?

 

Just an anecdote from my life which I had eventually come to recognise.

 

My parents had their beliefs which they impressed upon their children.  There was one in particular which threw me for a loop for a long, long time.  Germans are a polite people very much like Thais.  My parents stressed being considerate of others.  To the point where we had to consider others in deference to ourselves.  At least that's how I interpreted my parent's lesson to us.  And my interpretation was how I then proceeded to interact with people.

 

What that deference meant to me was that I had to consider the beliefs of others as valid over my own.  Well, as you can well imagine that worked very poorly for me.  And it would work poorly for anyone else, I would add.  But there was a benefit there for me.  A silver lining in a dark cloud.  For this process of considering others over myself meant that I would suspend my own beliefs and adopt the beliefs of another.  I would not only see the world through their eyes, through their beliefs, but also would identify with their beliefs as if they were my own.  Now since I had my own beliefs about things, as I must, then this was extremely confusing for me.  Since I was able to so strongly identify with the beliefs of others and, very importantly, accept their validity, their "truth," then that created the serious dilemma within me because it fostered immense doubt within myself about my own beliefs.  I would think to myself often that perhaps my beliefs were just plain wrong.

 

To this day, as I listen to the beliefs others express which are different from mine, it still fosters doubt within me about the truth and validity of my own beliefs.  But, fortunately for me, I have recognised this dynamic and these days I have little issue with separating the beliefs of others from my own.  That came through a lot of work though.  A lot of work as it forced me to question the validity of each and every belief I held that conflicted with the belief of another and to then determine for myself which was "truth" and which was truth.  Whilst in this process, though, I would experience confusion as to what was true and what was false.  And that would be quite unsettling.  Now that is a huge understatement.  Sometimes it was even scary to think that what I believed, especially if I had maintained a particular belief for quite a length of time, may not be true at all.  The idea was terrifying when I would consider that perhaps I might have been living a lie, or fooling myself.

 

I'll toss in some Seth here.  As he has explained, everyone has what he calls a world view.  His definition of it is the totality of beliefs one holds at any given time.  World views, however, are not permanent, or stagnant, for beliefs constantly change to one extent or another.  World views are therefore dynamic.  Another important aspect of a world view is that it is not merely ones dry, philosophical stance on everything about life, a world view which is without effect.  To the contrary.  A world view is highly practical because it literally defines ones modus operandi in life.  It is upon that which one chooses ones actions.  For action is an idea in motion and one acts only according to the ideas which make up their beliefs.  A major upheaval in beliefs would, in practical terms, throw one into a state of confusion as to how then act, or respond to situations which had previously been handled automatically.

 

You choose your parents, it is true, for your parents fit in with your intentions.  And, of course, yours with theirs.  My intention in this life is to understand who and what I am and the reality I find myself in.  And so my parents assisted me in acquiring the skill of being able to suspend my beliefs, the "truth" of them, whilst I consider other ideas, other beliefs, and whether or not they have any real truth.

 

You, Sunmaster, have accepted your beliefs as true, no different than anyone else.  And so I'm telling you that in order to consider the validity of the Seth material you would necessarily have to temporarily suspend all of your current beliefs which you consider true whilst you adopt the ideas of Seth as true.  To pretend for awhile that they are indeed true.  Temporarily only whilst you try their truths on for size.  Not permanently, mind you.  Whether you decide to make them permanent or not is for you to decide by comparing and contrasting to see which is true for you.  This process is, as has been described, the ideal method in which we are to play with ideas as children play with building blocks.  And that play is supposed to be fun.  Unfortunately, rather than a process of play it is approached with deadly seriousness.

 

Now, if you attempt to understand the Seth material whilst bringing your current beliefs along with you then you will do nothing other than sift through the material and toss out anything which does not fit your current beliefs.  Your beliefs will act practically as a filter.  And those ideas of Seth which do agree with your current beliefs will be accepted and then give the appearance that Seth's ideas and your current ideas are indeed one and the same.  I tell you, though, that overall they are not.  There are radical differences between the two.  As I've said often, you will no doubt find similarities between the Seth material and all religions.  Do not, though, ignore the differences or pretend they do not exist.  For those difference are meant to be entertained and questioned if one is truly interested in moving beyond their beliefs in order to divine true reality.

 

I'm opting out of providing my views to everyone because I understand, perhaps more fully than I ever have, that everyone has there own ideas and their own paths which they have, with great intention, embarked upon.  Overhauling ones beliefs to a great extent is not for everyone.  That would be biting off more than most are willing to chew.  Or able to chew given their level of understanding.  Adopting any of the information I provide leads to a major overhaul.  I can't legitimately and honestly expect that from anyone.  You create your own reality.  That is simply too much for folks to accept for too many reasons.  Yet there's no right nor wrong about it.

 

In the immortal words of Abraham, "life is not a horserace."  We are not on a sprint to see how quickly we can attain "enlightenment," or "heaven," or a state of "bliss," or a true understanding of ourselves and our reality.  That true understanding will come about naturally in due course and at ones own pace.  In this lifetime or another.  In this probability or another.

 

We've been given the gift of the Gods; to create.  In that sense we are Gods.  No matter what reality our consciousness travels to we will still be creating our experience there.  There is no reality in which experience is set for you, or predetermined for you, or chosen for you.  There is no reality which exists apart from you.  The basis of all realities is individual freedom.  Freedom is inherent within our being.  That will eternally be the case for Sunmaster and for every other consciousness, be it man, animal, stone or star.  Challenge is implied in creation.  Challenge is growth.  To become something, to experience oneself as other than what one knows oneself to be now.  And so you will eternally create and never be without challenge.  And every challenge then implies "problems" to be overcome.  Hence there is no state of existence where you are without challenges for that would indeed be a state where growth reaches a final destination.  At that point you can only endlessly repeat yourself.  And that is true death, which does not exist.

 

Just so that it is clearly understood, the Seth material is not given to solve anyone's problems.  It is not given as "a way of life."  It is not given as a philosophy.  It is not given as a religion.  It is given to return oneself to ones own natural and inherent power to create ones experience, wherever and whatever that may be.

 

My purpose is not to solve your problems for you, but to put you in touch with your own power. My purpose is not to come between you and your own freedom by giving you "answers," even to the most tragic of problems. My purpose is to reinforce your own strength, for ultimately the magic of your being is well equipped to help you find fulfillment, understanding, exuberance, and peace.

 

Anyway, I do not intend to break off communication with either of you.  I enjoy our conversations immensely and so wish to continue.  Both of you are up for challenges in this regard.  Both of you are willing to test out different ideas other than your own.  It has been my experience that folks exhibiting that willingness are far and few between.  And without that willingness then any engagement becomes little more than hopping on an endless merry-go-round, and one which is no fun at all.  I'll take it private then.

 

Whilst all religions teach that people are basically powerless science leaves no doubt.  Science teaches that people have no power at all.  I reject any idea which suggests that people are powerless.  Or any idea which suggests that people do not create their lives, their experiences, down to the last insignificant detail.

 

Going for the length record here? 😄

 

I understand what you're saying. Everyone filters out information that they are able to process at their current level of understanding. That's why we can read the same book 10, 20 years apart and discover new concepts. They were already there, but we had a blind spot for them.

 

Of course you know that this means that there are probably blind spots for the material we use as source of information right now. Would you agree?

 

 

Most people see spirituality as an opposite of science. For them it's an either-or situation. Yet, for someone with a wider perspective, it becomes clear that they are not at odds, simply because spirituality includes the material world along with science. Science is a small circle within the bigger circle of spirituality. They are not 2 separate circles next to each other.

 

So, while reading your last post and others before them, I often pictured Seth's material and Vedanta in the same way. They are not 2 separate circles next to each other, maybe intersecting each other a little. I see Seth as a circle within the circle of Vedanta. Seth simply focuses more on the material existence and how to create reality in a way that is most beneficial to you. Vedanta goes a step further and talks about non-duality, from which all else emerges, including the material existence, the ego, life itself.

 

But like you say, the ultimate intention here is to bring you closer and strengthen your link to your true nature. To make you see who or what you really are.

Turns out that's the ultimate goal of Vedanta too. 😊

 

So, maybe that's why I can't see any contradictions between the 2. If these 2 intentions are aligned and work in a practicalway, then the rest are just details.

 

Ps: As usual, I edited some parts.

[Tippaporn]

44 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Cheers!

I've got my breakfast waiting for me in the hotel. Will be in Korat until Sunday to support my wife who is participating in a cake competition. 

 

I'll be the final judge on cake since being a German it is my automatic and God-given birthright.    Just goes to show that Harari is full of sh!t on human rights. 

 

Which one is she making?  I'd go for the cheese cake, but with raisins, made with authentic Quark from unpasteurized milk.  I kid you not, my mother would smuggle it into the U.S., going so far as to pay bribes to customs agents if need be.  Though I would be willing to die for some Streuselkuchen.  And if I've gotta die for it then it better be no less than 1 meter in diameter.  If your wife needs more recipes I can get her my mother's complete recipe book on cakes.  10,000 baht for a copy.  But it's worth the price for it'll guarantee she's a winner every time.  I know you can afford it.  Need recipes for cookies and pastries, too? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

I'll be the final judge on cake since being a German it is my automatic and God-given birthright.    Just goes to show that Harari is full of sh!t on human rights. 

 

Which one is she making?  I'd go for the cheese cake, but with raisins, made with authentic Quark from unpasteurized milk.  I kid you not, my mother would smuggle it into the U.S., going so far as to pay bribes to customs agents if need be.  Though I would be willing to die for some Streuselkuchen.  And if I've gotta die for it then it better be no less than 1 meter in diameter.  If your wife needs more recipes I can get her my mother's complete recipe book on cakes.  10,000 baht for a copy.  I know you can afford it.  Need recipes for cookies and pastries, too? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, having Italian blood in me, that makes me even more suited to judge food than any German. 😂

 

The competition is not about the delicious cakes you posted, but artistic cakes made with fondant, sugar paste. They create figures and scenes and such stuff.

 

I'll post some pics later.

[owl sees all]

11 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

I'll be the final judge on cake since being a German it is my automatic and God-given birthright.    Just goes to show that Harari is full of sh!t on human rights. 

 

Which one is she making?  I'd go for the cheese cake, but with raisins, made with authentic Quark from unpasteurized milk.  I kid you not, my mother would smuggle it into the U.S., going so far as to pay bribes to customs agents if need be.  Though I would be willing to die for some Streuselkuchen.  And if I've gotta die for it then it better be no less than 1 meter in diameter.  If your wife needs more recipes I can get her my mother's complete recipe book on cakes.  10,000 baht for a copy.  But it's worth the price for it'll guarantee she's a winner every time.  I know you can afford it.  Need recipes for cookies and pastries, too? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow!!!

 

There are some luvverly bits of grub there Tipps. All loaded up with sugar. Personally I'd rather eat a crunchy carrot or some fresh broccoli..

[KhunLA]

30 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Nature is 'god'.

Agree ... but not until man came along, did someone figure out a way to scare people with Heaven & Hell to control them.   And, put a little money in their pocket to show you the way to Heaven.

 

Such a genius racket, if only it was a public company, and we could buy stock.

[Sunmaster]

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Agree ... but not until man came along, did someone figure out a way to scare people with Heaven & Hell to control them.   And, put a little money in their pocket to show you the way to Heaven.

 

Such a genius racket, if only it was a public company, and we could buy stock.

 

The need to connect with the spirit world came far, far before any organized religion came along, so your theory doesn't work, I'm afraid.

 

Before some people started exploiting others in the name of their version of God, there were shamans or individuals with a special connection to the spirit world, and they worked for the benefit of their tribes. Not for profit or power.

[Tippaporn]

14 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Well, having Italian blood in me, that makes me even more suited to judge food than any German. 😂

 

Utter rubbish.  Only Austrians can hold a candle to Germans on cakes and pastries. 

 

15 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The competition is not about the delicious cakes you posted, but artistic cakes made with fondant, sugar paste. They create figures and scenes and such stuff.

 

You married a fellow artist? 

 

16 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I'll post some pics later.

 

Forget the photos.  Just send us the watercolours of them.  Cosa ti succede? 

[Tippaporn]

18 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

 

Wow!!!

 

There are some luvverly bits of grub there Tipps. All loaded up with sugar. Personally I'd rather eat a crunchy carrot or some fresh broccoli..

 

Sugar has killed me yet.  Nor has it made me fat.  So what's the problem again? 

[Sunmaster]

12 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

You married a fellow artist? 

 

I have indeed. 😍

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

Essentially, he is talking about everything being equal. In nature everything is equal. But it is a 'dog eat dog' world. Just like the big dog hurts the little cat, and the big cat hurts a dog, we are the same. Didn't our ancestors whack women over the head, and drag them off to a cave? Of course they did. And why? Because we had needs and wanted the lady to cook a nice meal afterwards.

 

But of course we (as in humans) are different. Really our problems started when we started wearing clothes for reasons other than to keep warm or protected.

 

Why should anyone be 'allowed' to own land? Or indeed any bit of nature.

 

We must learn that nature is us. We are every bit a part of nature as a 'jellyfish' or an 'ant'. Nature can be viscous. Can be devastating. Can be beautiful. But from what viewpoint? Nature is what it always has been; nature. It is ourselves that makes it ugly. It's about time that we learn to appreciate nature and that we are simply an insignificant part of it. It's about time that we all realized that we are privileged to be a part of it.

It would be a grave mistake to assume from that short fragment that Harari is a nature-lover and cherishes all life in the human, animal and plant world.  On the contrary, he surely doesn't think that each living creature has 'a sacred right to life', least of all the 'useless eaters' as he calls them. 

[owl sees all]

35 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

It would be a grave mistake to assume from that short fragment that Harari is a nature-lover and cherishes all life in the human, animal and plant world.  On the contrary, he surely doesn't think that each living creature has 'a sacred right to life', least of all the 'useless eaters' as he calls them. 

Indeed!

 

Nature only cares about two things ; at least in the living part. Survival and reproduction. Everything else is superfluous.

[Tippaporn]

49 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I understand what you're saying. Everyone filters out information that they are able to process at their current level of understanding. That's why we can read the same book 10, 20 years apart and discover new concepts. They were already there, but we had a blind spot for them.

 

Of course you know that this means that there are probably blind spots for the material we use as source of information right now. Would you agree?

 

I totally agree.  When I first read the Seth material I had very specific questions in mind.  If the material didn't address those questions directly I didn't focus on it too much.  As my questions changed over time other portions of the material appealed to me.

 

52 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Most people see spirituality as an opposite of science. For them it's an either-or situation. Yet, for someone with a wider perspective, it becomes clear that they are not at odds, simply because spirituality includes the material world along with science. Science is a small circle within the bigger circle of spirituality. They are not 2 separate circles next to each other.

 

There needs to be a blending of science (intellect) and spirituality (intuition and emotions).  Since I see science as arising as a counter to religion (not in total, of course) then for science to incorporate spirituality would be seen as a return to religious precepts.  It ain't gonna happen anytime soon.  This thread is evidence of that in spades.

 

58 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

So, while reading your last post and others before them, I often pictured Seth's material and Vedanta in the same way. They are not 2 separate circles next to each other, maybe intersecting each other a little. I see Seth as a circle within the circle of Vedanta. Seth simply focuses more on the material existence and how to create reality in a way that is most beneficial to you.

 

Seth does not focus merely on our material existence.  Hence the book of exercises I posted.  But we're here now and we're here for a reason.  And so Seth certainly addresses that quite practical and real fact, too.  The reason for our very existence here is missed completely by Swami Sarvapriyananda.  I would say "in my opinion" but it's in his own words, which I transcribed from the video.

 

You are that.  Why should we be interested?  Well because Vedanta tells us the way to overcome suffering and to attain fulfillment.  Which is after all what we are interested in.  All that we do in life is trying to overcome suffering and to attain fulfillment.  Lasting peace, happiness, security.  The way to do that is to realize who you are.  That's the big claim.

 

Nowhere that I've seen yet is there any discussion of how specific experience is created.  I do not see any talk of ideas or beliefs; what they are, what their function is, and certainly not what their effects are.  Who is creating personal suffering?  Who creates personal fulfillment, or lack of fulfillment?  Is fulfillment in physical life something which is not attainable?  Or only in the spiritual world once we become one with the One?  Are we not spirits now, in this life, merely clothed in flesh, blood and bones?

 

Lasting peace, happiness, security implies a final destination.  There is no final destination to anything.  That statement also implies an end to growth.  Beyond which lies eternal repetition and true death.  That is antithetical to All That Is and Seth explains how that works and why in granular detail in "Unknown Reality Vol. 1."

 

Seth is not within the circle of Vedanta.

 

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Vedanta goes a step further and talks about non-duality, from which all else emerges, including the material existence, the ego, life itself.

 

All else emerges . . . for what reason, though?  For what purpose?  I've asked you before, why is Sunmaster in this world?  For what?  Where does Vedanta talk about creativity?  What of reincarnational selves?  If one reincarnational self attains connection with the One then what of those living the other reincarnational existences?  Given that time is simultaneous and all exists at once then how does that work?  Are the rest of the reincarnational selves liberated as well by default?  What of probable selves?  Trace selves?  Counterpart selves?  Now creativity would explain that.

 

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

So, maybe that's why I can't see any contradictions between the 2. If these 2 intentions are aligned and work in a practicalway, then the rest are just details.

 

That's what puzzles me.  There are huge contradiction which I see.  How is it that you don't see them?  Seth's material on the ego is one such contradiction.  Yes, there are similarities.  But nowhere does Seth ever denigrate the ego.  And why relegate the ego to a lesser portion of the self?  Some parts of your greater identity are better than others?  Some, such as the ego, being kicked to the curb?  A useful tool, when it works?  Else it's only a hindrance?  That's a huge contradiction between what Seth claims and what Vedanta seems to claim.  Total opposite view points in major respects.

 

Another major contradiction between Vedanta and Seth's material is one which I heard in another of the Swami's videos.  He used the same whiteboard with the greater self, or the One, on the left side with a line drawn separating all else.  He then claimed that everything existing on the right side of the line was not real and not eternal.  Thet's 180 degrees from what Seth is saying.

 

Those two disparities are not just minor, unimportant details to be brushed away (excuse the reference to painting pun ).  There are no insignificant details as everything has meaning and importance.

 

Anyway, I accept that our paths are different but I do object to drawing parallels from Vedanta to Seth such that they appear to be identical, if only in the "important" respects and class the differences as simple details that one can overlook.  Lest people begin to falsely identify Seth with eastern religious thinking.  In fact, Seth growing out of Vedanta as you now put Seth squarely into Vedanta's circle.  Square <--> circle pun intended.  Square pegs do not fit into round holes. 

[Tippaporn]

44 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

It would be a grave mistake to assume from that short fragment that Harari is a nature-lover and cherishes all life in the human, animal and plant world.  On the contrary, he surely doesn't think that each living creature has 'a sacred right to life', least of all the 'useless eaters' as he calls them. 

 

Harari certainly loves and cherishes his life.  Harari certainly feels he has a sacred right to life.  These people cannot hide their hypocrisy.  Do they really believe no one sees it?  Now that's dumber than dumb.

[Tippaporn]

9 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Indeed!

 

Nature only cares about two things ; at least in the living part. Survival and reproduction. Everything else is superfluous.

 

Science got the best of you, owl sees all.    Indoctrination is what me calls it.    We talk about all those lefties who can't see the truth if it gobsmacked them upside the head because they don't question any of the great lies they've been told.  Evolution is a great lie.  You just need to question it.    Question everything.  Especially, most especially when it agrees with you. 

[VincentRJ]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Evolution is a great lie.  You just need to question it.    Question everything.  Especially, most especially when it agrees with you. 

 

Can I assume that you are joking? Is there a better explanation for the development of millions of different species on the planet? What sort of questions should be asked that would show, or imply, that 'evolution is a great lie'?

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

“Just as jellyfish, and woodpeckers, and ostriches have no rights, homo sapiens have no rights also.

He's right! We foolish humans think that because we have "free will" we are special, LOL.

Tell that to a hurricane or an earthquake if you dare.

What some of us have is "luck". Some of us were born at a time the world wasn't infested with too many destructive humans destroying everything they touch, we were born into families that wanted us, and had enough money to give us stuff, send us to good schools etc, but it's only "luck" and can be taken away in an instant. Drive at the wrong time and in the wrong place and a drunk moron will take it all away, walk down the wrong street and a mugger will end it for you, get conscripted and gets your guts blown out, or end up limbless- I bet you get the picture.

As for the rest of humanity that wasn't born lucky, well, talk to the 2.something Gazans getting blown up because they were born there.

They had it right in the military when they said "life is s**t and then you die".

 

As for rights, what rights? When I got married I thought I had a "right" for sex- was I ever wrong about that! Do I have a right to good housing- no, do I have right to a decent pension- no, do I have a right to be treated kindly, no, do I actually have a "right" to anything at all- no I don't. The only right I have is to be lied to at election time and vote for people that don't care about me.

 

Despite the obvious conclusion that I'm bitter, I'm no more bitter than anyone that got handed the dirty end of the stick. I spent the first third of my life thinking I was inferior to everyone else, the middle third I did amazing things, and the last third I wasted on the wrong woman, but so what, no matter how bad I had it I was lucky, no matter that my dreams turned to dust, I was lucky, no matter that I'm just filling in time till the last great adventure, I'm lucky, as it could all have been so much worse.

 

The sunset should be amazing tonight.

[Chris Daley]

Genesis 19:30-38 (NIV):

"30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, 'Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.'

33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, 'Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.' 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today."

 

One of my favorite parts of the bible.  That and killing innocent kittens in the global flood.  A great read.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Indeed!

 

Nature only cares about two things ; at least in the living part. Survival and reproduction. Everything else is superfluous.

IMO nature doesn't care about survival of a species. If nature did nature would not have let humans destroy so many other species.

Nature gave us the genetic imperative to reproduce, and left us and all species to get on with it. IMO humans were a mistake, and Gaia is working, albeit slowly, to rid the planet of us. Doesn't matter though as what are a few millennia in the cosmic sense. No matter how much destruction we have inflicted on the planet, once we are gone the plants will take over and remove the evidence of our existence.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Chris Daley said:

Genesis 19:30-38 (NIV):

"30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, 'Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.'

33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, 'Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.' 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today."

and?

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

Sugar has killed me yet.  Nor has it made me fat.  So what's the problem again? 

I assume you meant Sugar has not killed me yet. It may not kill you. I hasn't killed me despite keeping the sugar industry in profit most of my life, but it lost my mother's leg and eventually killed her, it makes billions diabetic and fat and gives them bad teeth and heart defects.

 

While I love sugar in all it's myriad forms, we'd all be healthier if it didn't exist.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Nature is 'god'.

God is "everything" in the entire universe, down to the last electron.

 

Unfortunately, God isn't going to give me the winning Lotto numbers.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/23/2024 at 2:14 AM, Sunmaster said:

Today I had a discussion with a friend on the topic of "the hard problem of consciousness ", which is "does consciousness emerge from matter?" 

He's a staunch materialist and believes that the brain produces consciousness. 

We were arguing our points of view back and forth in a civilized manner, until he just said. "We all know that the brain produces consciousness. That's indisputable. "

To which I pointed out that it's far from being indisputable. In fact it is still very much disputed by science. There are several scientific theories, ranging from purely biological to more subtle explanations. No scientist would claim to know how consciousness is produced.

 

Well, it didn't go well after that. He resorted to mocking and ridiculing, so I stopped.

 

One good thing that came out of it, is that I learned about Neurotheology. A relatively new scientific field that tries to gap the bridge between the materialistic worldview (consciousness from matter) and the spiritual worldview (everything is consciousness). These scientists study purely subjective experiences of altered states of consciousness (including sleep, meditation and mystical experiences) in conjunction with the objective gathering of data by analysing brain waves and changes in the physiology of the subject. 

 

Fascinating. 

The military had ( ? have ) a policy of banning any discussion of politics and religion when I joined up. IMO it's a good rule when talking to friends as well, as both are liable to make enemies of friends.

[Sunmaster]

39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I assume you meant Sugar has not killed me yet. It may not kill you. I hasn't killed me despite keeping the sugar industry in profit most of my life, but it lost my mother's leg and eventually killed her, it makes billions diabetic and fat and gives them bad teeth and heart defects.

 

While I love sugar in all it's myriad forms, we'd all be healthier if it didn't exist.

I love sweets...now I live in a bakery. 😍

 

A couple of amazing cake creations, and the 2 little ones I made at a workshop here.

[owl sees all]

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

Science got the best of you, owl sees all.    Indoctrination is what me calls it.    We talk about all those lefties who can't see the truth if it gobsmacked them upside the head because they don't question any of the great lies they've been told.  Evolution is a great lie.  You just need to question it.    Question everything.  Especially, most especially when it agrees with you. 

If you can't reproduce you will die out. If you can't survive you will go the way of billions.

 

We are incredibly fortunate to even be here. The ones that didn't make it finished up a wet patch on the bed, in the sugar field or on the back seat of a Ford Cortina.

[owl sees all]

14 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I love sweets...now I live in a bakery. 😍

 

A couple of amazing cake creations, and the 2 little ones I made at a workshop here.

Beautiful indeed. I bet they taste as good as they look.

 

A nod is as good as a wink to a blind man.

[Tippaporn]

37 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

3 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Evolution is a great lie.  You just need to question it.    Question everything.  Especially, most especially when it agrees with you. 

Can I assume that you are joking?

 

No. 

 

38 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Is there a better explanation for the development of millions of different species on the planet?

 

Yes.  Consciousness creates form.  Form does not create consciousness.

 

39 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

What sort of questions should be asked that would show, or imply, that 'evolution is a great lie'?

 

What is consciousness?

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, Chris Daley said:

Genesis 19:30-38 (NIV):

"30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, 'Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.'

33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, 'Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.' 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today."

 

One of my favorite parts of the bible.  That and killing innocent kittens in the global flood.  A great read.

 

So you like incest. Not something I would advertise on an open forum (or anywhere elsewhere for that matter) , but OK...

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

 

So you like incest. Not something I would advertise on an open forum (or anywhere elsewhere for that matter) , but OK...

Insects are good source of protein in many asean countries.