Do you believe in God and why

[FarFlungFalang]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

This thread continues to enjoy much interest, having gained 6 pages over the weekend. I would not have expected such a thread to have lasted anywhere near so long.

Being a thread about God it is in danger of becoming eternal or may have already done so or always was since eternal has no beginning!

[Hummin]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You misunderstand the concept of faith. People of faith would never do the horrible things that men without faith do.

The people that did "horrible mistakes and crimes" did so because they had no faith. Professing to be a Christian does not mean that people walk in faith.

Without understanding that faith and religion are not the same it's a bit pointless replying to a thread about belief in God.

I think you misunderstand me maybe, when I say people with faith do mistakes, crimes and lead people to do the same in the name of god. Faith in the written book, have made people understand it littarely, and forced people to live by word for word. The bible is very diversed and confusing, and gives huge range of control of the masses of people. Sometimes for good, but also for the worse. We all have to remember there where different times when the tora, bible and koran was written, and therefor have to renew and bring the good religion to the future. But I guess that is not possible when there is millions of opinions, and also power hungry people who use it both for the power itself above the smaller masse, and also political. You can say they are not religious or have the right faith, but who really have to right faith is the big Q. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Hummin

[thaibeachlovers]

20 minutes ago, Hummin said:

whe really have to right faith is the big Q

Any who want faith may have it. In case you hadn't noticed, no one is forcing anyone to have faith now, but for those that wish to have faith, the door is always open, just come inside where paradise awaits for those with faith.

 

Ah, I just read your post again, and if you mean which brand of religion is the right one, the answer is all or none. All show the way, but none will give entry to paradise unless one has faith.

Faith is just faith. It is not bound by man's attempts to brand it.

All paths lead to the same destination.

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Any who want faith may have it. In case you hadn't noticed, no one is forcing anyone to have faith now, but for those that wish to have faith, the door is always open, just come inside where paradise awaits for those with faith.

 

Ah, I just read your post again, and if you mean which brand of religion is the right one, the answer is all or none. All show the way, but none will give entry to paradise unless one has faith.

Faith is just faith. It is not bound by man's attempts to brand it.

All paths lead to the same destination.

People is always led by something greater than themselves, and there is many examples for the better. Even Karl Marx have influenced to the greater, but in the big picture, it have taken many lifes, and ruined more. It is such a strong ideology same as religion, that gives people to much power that is easy to use wrong for what some think is better. 

 

As you say, paradise is only for those who is the true believer, and isnt that a treath? If not you end up in hell, turtured forever

 

I have faith in that is the biggest <deleted> ever. Nazis and Comunists other, use violence, prisoning, torture and death as treaths, same same 

[canuckamuck]

5 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

At the moment i would have serious issues in defining faith, to be honest.

..And to be frank, i would also doubt someone who claims to have a very clear idea of faith.

Sorry, I meant the object of faith should be defined. It is not simply faith that improves a person ethics.

That faith must have some values attached.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

Sorry, I meant the object of faith should be defined. It is not simply faith that improves a person ethics.

That faith must have some values attached.

Agree, faith can work miracles, yet blind faith together with wrong ideals can be disastrous.

[sirineou]

10 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

 The republic was created to respect all views.

 

and religion is trying (and has being successful) to circumvent that.

[canuckamuck]

8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

and religion is trying (and has being successful) to circumvent that.

By having views?

[sirineou]

5 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

By having views?

No , by not keeping them to themselves

[canuckamuck]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

No , by not keeping them to themselves

In a majority rules situation, you don't keep to yourself, you campaign.

[mauGR1]

24 minutes ago, sirineou said:

and religion is trying (and has being successful) to circumvent that.

Are you blaming religion also when it's raining ?

You know, it's the people who are evil, not the religion.

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

In a majority rules situation, you don't keep to yourself, you campaign.

I don't know what "you campaign" means with in the context of our conversation. 

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Are you blaming religion also when it's raining ?

No only for the things we are talking about, Rain is a results of evaporation.

5 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

You know, it's the people who are evil, not the religion.

Good people do good, and evil people do bad

It takes religion to get good people such as you,  to do bad things.

[VincentRJ]

Faith is 'confidence' that something is true. The student at school will study hard, and do lots of homework, if he/she has confidence (or faith) that academic achievement will lead to a more prosperous and happy life.

 

All activity requires a degree of 'faith' that such activity will have benefits, otherwise there would be no motivation.
The concept of Heaven and Hell, after death, depending on one's behaviour in this life, is the most obvious example of the 'carrot and stick' method of political control. But that control is dependent on the 'faith' of the population that heaven and Hell exists.

 

This can have benefits in reducing the amount of crime, for example, especially in the past when there was no police force.
The modern religion of 'Climate Change Alarmism' will also have benefits. The alarm created, equivalent to 'Hell on Earth', if we don't reduce CO2 emissions, will result in new and additional sources of energy that are basically unlimited as long as the sun continues to shine.
Some time ago, I was impressed when I came across research that statistically deduced, if the whole of the Sahara Desert were covered with modern solar panels, the total energy produced would be more than 20 times the current world consumption of energy, converting all energy uses into electricity equivalents.

Of course there would be other problems and costs of distributing such energy, world-wide, but it's all feasible.

 

However, there are also negative consequences of believing in something that cannot be scientifically confirmed, and acting on that belief. The issue of alarm about climate change is a good example, in my opinion.
If we believe, or have faith, that reducing our CO2 emissions will prevent extreme weather conditions, such as droughts, floods, and hurricanes, then we will spend our money on developing 'so-called' clean energy alternatives, instead of building more dams, long water pipes, and stronger dwellings to resist the force of cyclones.

 

In Australia, we are currently in a drought period with lots of bush fires. Many farmers are devastated due to a lack of water supply. However, the scientific evidence, from ice cores in Antarctica, which have provided evidence of past climate events in Australia as far back as 1,000 years, suggests that droughts in the past have been much worse than anything experienced during the past 150 years.

 

The worst drought so far detected, was a 39 year drought from AD 1174 to 1212. That must have been absolutely awful for the Aboriginals, but nothing to do with human emissions of CO2.
http://www.antarctica.gov.au/news/2014/antarctic-ice-cores-tell-1000-year-australian-drought-story

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

No only for the things we are talking about, Rain is a results of evaporation.

Good people do good, and evil people do bad

It takes religion to get good people such as you,  to do bad things.

Not really, i am not a fanatic of religion.

You are right to say that people have done bad things in the name of religion, my point is that they would have done the same without religion, just using some other excuse.

Patriotism, nationalism, pride of race have also been convenient excuses for awful crimes.

Lately we had US waging war to bring democracy in Iraq, yeah right.

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

my point is that they would have done the same without religion, just using some other excuse.

Those who would have done so even without religion are evil, I am talking about good people such as you

     (regardless of our philosophical disagreements I am sure you are a good person).

Religion lends respectability to otherwise repugnant acts.

 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Those who would have done so even without religion are evil, I am talking about good people such as you

     (regardless of our philosophical disagreements I am sure you are a good person).

Religion lends respectability to otherwise repugnant acts.

 

Thanks mate, respect.

Of course i agree with your last line, but again, it's difficult to eradicate the evil from humankind; undoubtedly religion failed in that regard.

[canuckamuck]

37 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I don't know what "you campaign" means with in the context of our conversation. 

 I suppose we have been assuming each others point. We are off topic anyhow.

[Tagged]

40 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 

Good people do good, and evil people do bad

It takes religion to get good people such as you,  to do bad things.

Most people have both in them, by doing good you can also doing something bad. Yin Yang

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Thanks mate, respect.

Of course i agree with your last line, but again, it's difficult to eradicate the evil from humankind; undoubtedly religion failed in that regard.

To be fair , religion makes some bad people do some good things also. You know ,fear of god and all that.

    IMO religion is fine for those such as you who can keep things in proper perspective, Unfortunately there are many who are mentally lazy, they let others dictate to them what their religion means . They are the problem , and since it is difficult to identify who those are, We on the other side paint all of you with the same brush. ( big problem for the Muslim community recently)

 Personally I say "whatever rocks your boat, as long as it does not rock my boat because I get seasick easily" 

And lately my boat has being rocking way too much for my confort. 

 Personally, I think all religious people need to step up their game, and stand with those who are unfairly persecuted by religion, because that persecution behaviour, presents an existential problem to your philosophy. as resent trent on religion participation seems to indicate. 

 

[sirineou]

12 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Most people have both in them, by doing good you can also doing something bad. Yin Yang

Yes they do. Religion gives the bad permission to operate with in the respect of the community.

Heck priests have even being blesing the arms of those heading to slaughter those who belive otherwise. How absurd. If Christ had ever existed, (there is a lot of debate there) he would be turning in his grave (if he had not assented in to the heavens LOL)

Edited November 11, 2019 by sirineou

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Personally, I think all religious people need to step up their game, and stand with those who are unfairly persecuted by religion, because that persecution behaviour, presents an existential problem to your philosophy. as resent trent on religion participation seems to indicate. 

 

Well, i'm against any injustice, religion motivated or not, yet i value my life, and i'm not going to sacrifice myself for a lost cause, like eradicating the evil from this planet.

A valuable lesson that Jesus, and others, taught me, is that if you say the truth, the system will eliminate you.

I am paying already a high price, in my little world, for not being a hypocrite.

[sirineou]

5 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, i'm against any injustice, religion motivated or not, yet i value my life, and i'm not going to sacrifice myself for a lost cause, like eradicating the evil from this planet.

A valuable lesson that Jesus, and others, taught me, is that if you say the truth, the system will eliminate you.

I am paying already a high price, in my little world, for not being a hypocrite.

 There is a lot of room between standing up for what is right and sacrificing one's self .Not allowing two man or two women who love each other to marry is an injustice. What business is it of a , let's say a Catholic. If they do? they are not asking to get married in your church, they don't want to force you to marry a man, 

Ho is it of any concern to a catholic, or a muslim, or.... who they marry? 

[Sunmaster]

5 hours ago, sirineou said:

 There is a lot of room between standing up for what is right and sacrificing one's self .Not allowing two man or two women who love each other to marry is an injustice. What business is it of a , let's say a Catholic. If they do? they are not asking to get married in your church, they don't want to force you to marry a man, 

Ho is it of any concern to a catholic, or a muslim, or.... who they marry? 

There's a small debate going on in my hometown because some high ranking clerical said he (as a representative of the church) is against scattering the ashes in the sea or a mountain. They should be interred on holy soil.

In my opinion, neither church nor state should interfere with something as personal as this (or choosing who to love).

I also believe we should be free to choose the way we die and make assisted death fully legal 

And getting rid of half of the unjustly imposed taxes that cripple the middle class and the economy!! (Europe, not Thailand ????)

Vive la révolution! Vive la resistance! ????????????

[Skeptic7]

20 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

At the moment i would have serious issues in defining faith, to be honest.

..And to be frank, i would also doubt someone who claims to have a very clear idea of faith.

So you doubt Thaibeachlovers. Why not tell him? Why no pushback? 

[mauGR1]

5 hours ago, sirineou said:

 There is a lot of room between standing up for what is right and sacrificing one's self .Not allowing two man or two women who love each other to marry is an injustice. What business is it of a , let's say a Catholic. If they do? they are not asking to get married in your church, they don't want to force you to marry a man, 

Ho is it of any concern to a catholic, or a muslim, or.... who they marry? 

Surely it's not my concern, in the big picture it's not important imho.

[mauGR1]

19 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

So you doubt Thaibeachlovers. Why not tell him? Why no pushback? 

How did you come to that assumption ?

I am doubting myself, no time to doubt other people, next..

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

How did you come to that assumption ?

I am doubting myself, no time to doubt other people, next..

And to be frank, i would also doubt someone who claims to have a very clear idea of faith.

 

Post 3458, Page 231

[mauGR1]

19 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

And to be frank, i would also doubt someone who claims to have a very clear idea of faith.

 

Post 3458, Page 231

So, what are you on about ?

I doubt myself, i doubt others, have you got any problem with that ?

[Skeptic7]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

So, what are you on about ?

I doubt myself, i doubt others, have you got any problem with that ?

no time to doubt other people

(Post 3486) 

 

Do you see the problem?  

 

Next... 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Skeptic7