geronimo Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Just now, mauGR1 said: Oh, then we have something in common, although "my" mountains are more famous than yours (Dolomites) ???? i used to climb mountains every weekend too, until i got too old and lazy. Yes, in theory you are right, but i guess you understand the meaning of the metaphor, although that metaphor is not flawless. In the specific, i was referring to the countless names of God, and the various religions, which are supposed to bring a human into the heights through different paths and in different ways. Well, if there is a god, then almost all of the religions are barking up the wrong tree! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geronimo Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said: Wrong thread, this is a thread about whether you believe in God, not Santa Clause.... But yes, Morgan Freeman does exist Morgan Freeman smokes weed, so he'll be an atheist ....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Teavee Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, geronimo said: Well, if there is a god, then almost all of the religions are barking up the wrong tree! Agree absolutely & I personally think that you need to separate God from Religion as the 2 have nothing to do with each other when it comes to belief/faith Used to joke with my parents (1 Catholic, 1 protestant) that they could never agree which order to do the spectacles, testicles, wallet & watch... IMHO All religions are Bollaxe... But faith is a very real & important factor of a lot of people's lives... Edited November 15, 2019 by Mike Teavee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Teavee Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, geronimo said: Morgan Freeman smokes weed, so he'll be an atheist ....... No probably a Rasta ???? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, geronimo said: Well, if there is a god, then almost all of the religions are barking up the wrong tree! Well, perhaps religions can have flaws, and humans surely have, nobody denies that. Yet, a positive attitude is required to start a journey into higher realms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geronimo Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said: Agree absolutely & I personally think that you need to separate God from Religion as the 2 have nothing to do with each other when it comes to believe/faith Used to joke with my parents (1 Catholic, 1 protestant) that they could never agree which order to do the spectacles, testicles, wallet & watch... IMHO All religions are Bollaxe... But faith is a very real & important factor of a lot of people's lives... Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagged Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, geronimo said: Well, if there is a god, then almost all of the religions are barking up the wrong tree! Almost? I see god as Trump, bragging about his greatness, and fail to see his flawness, or admit to it. Demanding being loved, and adored even the proof is against him, and his actions. So I guess people seeing it different, but I am asking how we can adore such a power? And this is an reaction video comment to his statements. Who is right and who is wrong, thats the question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geronimo Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, Tagged said: Almost? I see god as Trump, bragging about his greatness, and fail to see his flawness, or admit to it. Demanding being loved, and adored even the proof is against him, and his actions. So I guess people seeing it different, but I am asking how we can adore such a power? And this is an reaction video comment to his statements. Who is right and who is wrong, thats the question. personally, I believe in spirituality, and yes, Fry did destroy religion, rightly so. I said "almost" because if there is a god, then one of the religions would have been on the button. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post yodsak Posted November 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Teavee Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, geronimo said: personally, I believe in spirituality, and yes, Fry did destroy religion, rightly so. I said "almost" because if there is a god, then one of the religions would have been on the button. Hit the nail on the head, Religion does more harm to God/Faith/Belief than anything else. People who believe the Bible is the instruction manual to life need to take a serious look at what they believe in... The Bible like the Ikea Billy Bookcase construction manual, are both so far removed from the truth it's unreal... Edited November 15, 2019 by Mike Teavee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geronimo Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said: Hit the nail on the head, Religion does more harm to God/Faith/Belief than anything else. People who believe the Bible is the instruction manual to life need to take a serious look at what they believe in... The Bible like the Ikea Billy Bookcase construction manual, are both so far removed from the truth it's unreal... A testimony to the power of indoctrination ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) One of the great testimonies of the existence of God is the visceral reactions to the subject. People don't believe in Gandalf or Frodo. But you don't see anybody getting all defensive if someone wants to get philosophical about it. Polytheism generally gets a pass as well. Edited November 15, 2019 by canuckamuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geronimo Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, canuckamuck said: One of the great testimonies of the existence of God is the visceral reactions to the subject. People don't believe in Gandalf or Frodo. But you don't see anybody getting all defensive if someone wants get philosophical about it. Polytheism generally gets a pass as well. I hope to god we can keep religion out of this year's POTY! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 The POTY's are where we sacrifice a popular member, so the moderators will bless us with bounteous content. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geronimo Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, canuckamuck said: The POTY's are where we sacrifice a popular member, so the moderators will bless us with bounteous content. Yes, it does have a sacrificial element to it ........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) Stephen Fry... Let's assume he goes to the pearly gates of heaven and talks to God. Stephen, the very very limited bubble of consciousness tells God, the Eternal Being, the Supreme Wisdom, the Boundless Love....that there's something wrong with his creation. Am I the only one who thinks this is utterly ridiculous? Furthermore, he only talks about the biblical God...it's very easy to point a finger on that one, ridicule him and be utterly outraged by this creation of religion. So his knowledge of the subject is very shallow at best. I like Stephen Fry, but in this instance he so shortsighted that it hurts to listen to him. Edited November 15, 2019 by Sunmaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 32 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: he only talks about the biblical God...it's very easy to point a finger on that one, ridicule him and be utterly outraged by this creation of religion. So his knowledge of the subject is very shallow at best. I like Stephen Fry, but in this instance he so shortsighted that it hurts to listen to him. Have some compassion.. ???? He also has to eat, so he's just saying what the people want to hear. ..The same people who worship fake idols, later enjoy ridiculing and destroying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagged Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 35 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: I like Stephen Fry, but in this instance he so shortsighted that it hurts to listen to him. He talk about the biblical god we are teached to know by priests and believers. Utterly shallow is the follow in fear for what can happen in afterlife, as well punishment that can happen to you while living. Diseases, gods anger on a collective punishment level. What people make up for themselves in a spiritual level, is total different from what biblical teachers preaches. Even them have to back down because of the masses opinion hurt them as well, when we are strong enough to oppose, but we have seen and see how they rule when they got total power. Political religion have and still hurt people tremendous in many ways. Guilt and also the way religious (buddhists) buy forgivnes in hope to reach paradise or by active actions to get their nirvana or their 72 virgins as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tagged said: He talk about the biblical god we are teached to know by priests and believers. Utterly shallow is the follow in fear for what can happen in afterlife, as well punishment that can happen to you while living. Diseases, gods anger on a collective punishment level. What people make up for themselves in a spiritual level, is total different from what biblical teachers preaches. Even them have to back down because of the masses opinion hurt them as well, when we are strong enough to oppose, but we have seen and see how they rule when they got total power. Political religion have and still hurt people tremendous in many ways. Guilt and also the way religious (buddhists) buy forgivnes in hope to reach paradise or by active actions to get their nirvana or their 72 virgins as an example. I am against all organised religion, If people want to be spiritual no skin off of my nose. People delude themselves in many different ways , I am probably deluding myself that I am being clever, as long as it does not hurt anyone other the delugee (did I just make up a word) who cares. when you guys try to organise, my ears perk up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 6 hours ago, Tagged said: What people make up for themselves in a spiritual level, is total different from what biblical teachers preaches. And thanks God for that! ???? It comes back to what I said about the evolution of humankind: from rejection of religion, to a healthy understanding of spirituality. It's a fairly small group for now, but I'm deeply convinced that we (as a species) will come to the point where spirituality (in one form or another) will be accepted and practiced by the majority of society and it will be free of the controversial folklore, the outdated dogma and empty rituals of the organized religions. And it will also embrace and be embraced by science, because people will finally have understood that science is not opposed to or separated from the metaphysical reality, but complements it perfectly. Definitely not in our lifetime, but maybe in the next 1 or 2. I think it's inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: And it will also embrace and be embraced by science, because people will finally have understood that science is not opposed to or separated from the metaphysical reality, but complements it perfectly. You were doing great until you got to this part.I order that it gets embraced by science it will have to stop being spirituality. These two concepts are diametrically opposed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 6 hours ago, sirineou said: You were doing great until you got to this part.I order that it gets embraced by science it will have to stop being spirituality. These two concepts are diametrically opposed. Why would you think that? Maybe we have different concepts of what spirituality is, but I see no problem for them to work together. In fact, they are working together right now in the way I understand the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Sunmaster said: Why would you think that? Maybe we have different concepts of what spirituality is, but I see no problem for them to work together. In fact, they are working together right now in the way I understand the world. Both science and spirituality are concepts and not things. spir·it·u·al·i·ty the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things. sci·ence the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. Do you see the conflict? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) Not at all. Science can occupy itself with what it does best: furthering the understanding of the material world and spirituality is there to develop the inner worlds. A much smarter guy than me, a scientist called Fritjof Capra (researcher of theoretical high energy physics), wrote a great book called "The Tao of Physics", where he discussed " a profound change in our worldview that was brought about by the conceptual revolution in physics – a change from the mechanistic worldview of Descartes and Newton to a holistic and ecological view." And he's by far not the only one to see that science and spirituality are not at odds at all when you shift your perception to a wider view. It would be like saying that your left hand is diametrically opposed to your right hand. From a lower standpoint it might appear so, but if you consider the full body, you'll find that they are simply 2 parts of something bigger and perfectly integrated in that bigger system. In a nutshell: if we assume that the Eternal Source is indeed the source of everything, including the material world, the laws that govern it and the instruments to understand it (science), then the logical conclusion is that science can never be at odds with it because it is itself part of the fabric of the Universe and the Eternal Source. Here's a page about F. Capra for those who want to get deeper into this:https://upliftconnect.com/science-and-spirituality/ Edited November 15, 2019 by Sunmaster 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 32 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: then the logical conclusion is that science can never be at odds with the Source because science is itself part of the fabric of the Universe and the Eternal Source. Needed to change this to make it clearer, sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagged Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Sunmaster said: And thanks God for that! ???? It comes back to what I said about the evolution of humankind: from rejection of religion, to a healthy understanding of spirituality. It's a fairly small group for now, but I'm deeply convinced that we (as a species) will come to the point where spirituality (in one form or another) will be accepted and practiced by the majority of society and it will be free of the controversial folklore, the outdated dogma and empty rituals of the organized religions. And it will also embrace and be embraced by science, because people will finally have understood that science is not opposed to or separated from the metaphysical reality, but complements it perfectly. Definitely not in our lifetime, but maybe in the next 1 or 2. I think it's inevitable. I believe in healthy life philosophy, the sprirituality among people is as widespread as any religions together. As a nation or tribe we need an identity, and when we try to split tribes in to nations, and then in to world society, we get lost. Everyone can not fit in one box or another, and we see what we experiences today in social media. A bunch of people looking for someone who thinks and feel like them, and the screaming and rudiness getting lauder with one president in front. The gentle discussion is over, and now it is about deny, scream, bully, and insult as many as possible at once, just to get heard, and build listeners and tribes can get to gether. Aweful if you ask me. We need strong states and nations, to build honour and energy to make changes. But most of the time, it also goes wrong at one point. What is next? Peaceful spiritutal meditation to find your innerself? I would say that is to surrender, and leave everything to other to clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNXexpat Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 On 4/14/2019 at 9:25 PM, ivor bigun said: Do you really believe in him or any of the other Gods ? Nope! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 4 hours ago, Sunmaster said: Science can occupy itself with what it does best: furthering the understanding of the material world and spirituality is there to develop the inner worlds. What inner worlds I am not familiar with any evidence supporting the existence of any "Inner worlds" 4 hours ago, Sunmaster said: Fritjof Capra (researcher of theoretical high energy physics), wrote a great book called "The Tao of Physics", where he discussed " a profound change in our worldview that was brought about by the conceptual revolution in physics – a change from the mechanistic worldview of Descartes and Newton to a holistic and ecological view." How does the above support spirituality? 4 hours ago, Sunmaster said: And he's by far not the only one to see that science and spirituality are not at odds at all when you shift your perception to a wider view. Wider view? please explain 4 hours ago, Sunmaster said: It would be like saying that your left hand is diametrically opposed to your right hand. From a lower standpoint it might appear so, but if you consider the full body, you'll find that they are simply 2 parts of something bigger and perfectly integrated in that bigger system. They are both hands , proven scientifically to be parts of the same system There is no evidence to suggest that spirituality is part of the same system that governs the Universe. None whatsoever. 4 hours ago, Sunmaster said: In a nutshell: if we assume that the Eternal Source is indeed the source of everything, including the material world, the laws that govern it and the instruments to understand it (science), then the logical conclusion is that science can never be at odds with it because it is itself part of the fabric of the Universe and the Eternal Source. The whole thing rests on a very big "IF" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 6 hours ago, Sunmaster said: Stephen Fry... Let's assume he goes to the pearly gates of heaven and talks to God. Stephen, the very very limited bubble of consciousness tells God, the Eternal Being, the Supreme Wisdom, the Boundless Love....that there's something wrong with his creation. Am I the only one who thinks this is utterly ridiculous? Furthermore, he only talks about the biblical God...it's very easy to point a finger on that one, ridicule him and be utterly outraged by this creation of religion. So his knowledge of the subject is very shallow at best. I like Stephen Fry, but in this instance he so shortsighted that it hurts to listen to him. I agree..."God, the Eternal Being, the Supreme Wisdom, the Boundless Love" of which there is zero evidence, is utterly ridiculous. Stephen Fry...not at all. 5 hours ago, mauGR1 said: Have some compassion.. ???? He also has to eat, so he's just saying what the people want to hear. ..The same people who worship fake idols, later enjoy ridiculing and destroying them. Hardly... He was being honest. Asked a nutty question and responded brilliantly. Doesn't need to say anything and surely eats quite well. Stephen Fry is an English comedian, actor, writer, activist, and presenter who has a net worth of $35 million. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geronimo Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 9 hours ago, Sunmaster said: Stephen Fry... Let's assume he goes to the pearly gates of heaven and talks to God. Stephen, the very very limited bubble of consciousness tells God, the Eternal Being, the Supreme Wisdom, the Boundless Love....that there's something wrong with his creation. Am I the only one who thinks this is utterly ridiculous? Furthermore, he only talks about the biblical God...it's very easy to point a finger on that one, ridicule him and be utterly outraged by this creation of religion. So his knowledge of the subject is very shallow at best. I like Stephen Fry, but in this instance he so shortsighted that it hurts to listen to him. Fry has more intelligence in his left ear lobe than most people! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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