Do you believe in God and why

[teatime101]

8 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

you are just parroting some scientific dogma.

Which dogma, pray tell?

 

I didn't say our planet is unique, I said it may be unique. Until I hear otherwise, I consider it reasonable to work from the assumption that we are, not that it matters one bit for the purposes of our discussion. Life may be abundant, but the 'laws' that make it possible are not aware of, nor do we have any way of knowing whether they follow some higher purpose, as you imply by using the term 'rule'.

Edited May 3, 2020 by teatime101

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, teatime101 said:

Life is a profound mystery,  and consciousness is an even greater mystery. But the biggest mystery of all is that of free will, because in an entirely material world, it's impossible. And yet I know I can get out of my chair whenever I please, not because my atoms are arranged so and so.

...until your body is not strong enough to lift you up. Then you'll realise that you (and everyone else) have to submit to a higher power. Call it God or gravity, it doesn't make much difference. ????

[teatime101]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Call it God or gravity, it doesn't make much difference

Tell that to the minister next Sunday. He will nod wisely, and maybe give a wink to show that you and he are in on the secret.

[mauGR1]

Just now, teatime101 said:

Which dogma, pray tell?

Look, this thread is 1 year old, nearly 500 pages and 7450 posts.

Your predictable stance has been discussed many times, and i am a bit tired to repeat myself.

Perhaps you could start reading the thread from the beginning, and get the answers you are looking for.

Warning:

Don't expect a physical proof of the existence of God, because God could not care less of what you want to believe. That is entirely your choice.

[Sunmaster]

2 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

Tell that to the minister next Sunday. He will nod wisely, and maybe give a wink to show that you and he are in on the secret.

Sorry, I'm not religious nor have I been to a mass in about 40 years, will not start now.

[teatime101]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Your predictable stance

Personal attacks = end of discussion. 

 

I'm sure there are people here capable of not insulting people they disagree with.

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by teatime101

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

Personal attacks = end of discussion. 

 

I'm sure there are people here capable of not insulting people they disagree with.

 

Insulting lol, cry me a river.

no need to play the victim, nobody cares anyway ????

Edited May 3, 2020 by mauGR1

[Skallywag]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

If you want to think that this is happening by chance, it's your choice, the fact is that an oak seed will produce an oak tree, which is a projection of the spirit, like me and you.

 

18 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

The funny thing is that you pretend to know something that you don't know.

Greetings mauGR1.  Appreciate your views or philosophy, yet "projection of the spirit" is also just conjecture in my opinion and not a "fact".  Very plausible and logical though

Appreciate your input  ????

[teatime101]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Because most people are scientifically illiterate, they can't understand how 'life' could spontaneously appear.

An even bigger problem is they are also anti-science, thanks to their religious (and political) beliefs. Climate change denial is strongest among evangelical (mostly Republican) Christians.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

 

Greetings mauGR1.  Appreciate your views or philosophy, yet "projection of the spirit" is also just conjecture in my opinion and not a "fact".  Very plausible and logical though

Appreciate your input  ????

Thank you @Skallywag for kind words.

Actually i could explain better what you call "conjecture", but i cannot type a whole book here, and how many would be interested ?

I just pretend i am in a room, or a pub, talking with friends, so take this thread as it is, a chat among friends.

 

[Skallywag]

51 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The atrocities were committed by people who happened to be religious, exerting their free will. 

But religious followers do not have free will, so they cannot exert it. 

They follow "Gods laws"  so their "will" is not their own

[teatime101]

11 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

no need to play the victim

I just prefer to talk with grown ups.

[Skallywag]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I just pretend i am in a room, or a pub, talking with friends, so take this thread as it is, a chat among friends.

Hopefully one day we may meet in a pub or elsewhere and chat.  Glad this thread came up on my sidebar.  Has me contemplating the universe again !

[teatime101]

4 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

But religious followers do not have free will, so they cannot exert it. 

They follow "Gods laws"  so their "will" is not their own

That doesn't make sense. The 'laws of God' are not like natural laws, which literally cannot be broken. 'Breaking God's law' is exactly where 'sin' comes from.

Edited May 3, 2020 by teatime101

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, teatime101 said:

I just prefer to talk with grown ups.

ohh that's a personal attack, now i'm so offended

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Hopefully one day we may meet in a pub or elsewhere and chat.  Glad this thread came up on my sidebar.  Has me contemplating the universe again !

Glad you enjoy, it's always the right time to contemplate the universe.

[Sunmaster]

8 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

But religious followers do not have free will, so they cannot exert it. 

They follow "Gods laws"  so their "will" is not their own

Sure they do, just like everyone else. They chose a certain path, just like you chose yours. They were also conditioned by their family and peers to follow a path instead of another, just like you. 

Religious or not, we are all born with free will, but then this will can be rather easily directed and influenced by politicians, religious authorities, advertisers, hardly anyone is immune.

How is your remaining free will any different from someone who believes in a higher power? 

 

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

My point exactly...same thing for religious people. The atrocities were committed by people who happened to be religious, exerting their free will. 

Not really.

religion requires of people to do certain things,many of them good, some of them , not so much. 

it has been said that "Good people do good things and bad people do bad things. but it takes religion to make good people do bad things" and to be fair it also makes some bad people do some good things. 

Atheism does not make any demands. it is not a doctrine it is the absence of one.  

[mauGR1]

17 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

But religious followers do not have free will, so they cannot exert it. 

They follow "Gods laws"  so their "will" is not their own

Pls allow me to say something, i am born a Christian, so were Hitler, Stalin and Jack the ripper.

Many will say they are following religion, but who has to be trusted ? It's your choice.

You can judge people by their actions, not by what they say, and yes, every true or false follower has his own free will.

[Sunmaster]

13 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

That doesn't make sense. The 'laws of God' are not like natural laws, which literally cannot be broken. 'Breaking God's law' is exactly where 'sin' comes from.

Besides....you make a distinction between the Law of God and the natural laws.

As I see it, there is no difference at all. God, being All-There-is, is both the source and the ground of all being. Nothing is outside of God, otherwise we would talk about a duality: god vs external law. But since God transcends duality, that "god" cannot be God.

So..."natural laws" are as godly as everything else in the universe. 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Not really.

religion requires of people to do certain things,many of them good, some of them , not so much. 

it has been said that "Good people do good things and bad people do bad things. but it takes religion to make good people do bad things" and to be fair it also makes some bad people do some good things. 

Atheism does not make any demands. it is not a doctrine it is the absence of one.  

Not really.

My religion doesn't require anything, except trying to do some work to better myself.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Not really.

My religion doesn't require anything, except trying to do some work to better myself.

No where did I say that it your religion does, 

 

[Heppinger]

On 4/15/2019 at 1:28 AM, marcusarelus said:

How about those who deny medical treatment to their children in the name of god? 

But I suspect you have no problem buying <deleted> from a company that denies the children they employ a safe working environment. 

[Sunmaster]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Not really.

religion requires of people to do certain things,many of them good, some of them , not so much. 

it has been said that "Good people do good things and bad people do bad things. but it takes religion to make good people do bad things" and to be fair it also makes some bad people do some good things. 

Atheism does not make any demands. it is not a doctrine it is the absence of one.  

I think...if you're skilled at reading and influencing people, it's easy to find the switch that would make them do the unimaginable. These switches are usually very personal and profound emotional triggers. People identify with them, so if you threaten these areas, you threaten their very existence. If you threaten their existence, they will lash out in the most violent way possible. 

You're right to say that organized religions knew/know how to push those trigger buttons to make people dance after their tunes. 

But so did other organisations and ideologies, who maybe happened to be atheistic...or not. That's beside the point. 

The point is that you just have to find where people are most emotionally invested in, to manipulate it and use it to your advantage. Religions have done so, as well as (atheist) governments and corporations. 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

But I suspect you have no problem buying <deleted> from a company that denies the children they employ a safe working environment. 

The poster you are replying to, has disappeared from the radar, so that you don't hold your breath waiting for a reply ????

[Heppinger]

1 hour ago, teatime101 said:

Laws don't 'rule' anything. It's just how the universe is shaped. The electromagnetic force (and the strong and weak nuclear forces) determines the structure and properties of individual atoms. Add gravity and light energy and, at least in our planet's case, living things can evolve. 

 

The 'Law of Gravity' is what it is because the universe formed in the way it did. Same goes for all the forces. They just are. In all the universe our planet is possibly unique. That gives some idea how unlikely it is that the laws 'rule our planet'. Why don't they 'rule' all the other planets and produce similar results?

 

The notion that 'laws rule' is anthropocentric. As is religion - the ultimate anthropocentric fantasy.

Gravity is a theory not a law

[Heppinger]

30 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Atheism does not make any demands.

There are no Atheist's, everybody worships someone or something.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I think...if you're skilled at reading and influencing people, it's easy to find the switch that would make them do the unimaginable. These switches are usually very personal and profound emotional triggers. People identify with them, so if you threaten these areas, you threaten their very existence. If you threaten their existence, they will lash out in the most violent way possible. 

You're right to say that organized religions knew/know how to push those trigger buttons to make people dance after their tunes. 

But so did other organisations and ideologies, who maybe happened to be atheistic...or not. That's beside the point. 

The point is that you just have to find where people are most emotionally invested in, to manipulate it and use it to your advantage. Religions have done so, as well as (atheist) governments and corporations. 

Al this are true but the fact remains that atheism is the absence of doctrine, which is why you said "atheistic" rather than Atheism. 

They system that  committed the atrocities might have had an "atheistic" component, but it was not that component that caused the atrocities .Atheism requires nothing and atrocities are something.

The Bible and the Quran are full of passages that encourage violence. 

[Heppinger]

7 hours ago, garrya said:

Why stop writing? Who can help give back the life of those billions who died "in the name of God"?

How can we help stop wars between various godlovers. You tell me as I haven't been able to find professionel help for this. 

I guess I am just an idiot arguing with those openminded ones. ????

I think you will find religion has little to do with war, it's as silly as saying how can we help stop wars between various skin tones. 

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, Heppinger said:

There are no Atheist's, everybody worships someone or something.

If you say so.