Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Good you stopped reading. May your Bronze Age myth and superstition grant you all the solace you need !

 

A couple questions, though.....is there one god or many millions like the Hindus believe? Was Mohd the last prophet or John Smith? or David Koresh? Can I eat meat on Friday or not? Do women need to have certain parts of their body cut off if those little buds give them pleasure?

 

Also, why just one god?  With a trillion stars in our galaxy, a few hundred billion galaxies, and even on our obscure little world in a nothing part of our own galaxy there are 7.6 billion humans, that deity must be damn busy.  Maybe he has a significant other?  A team?  I bet it could use some help. Omnipotence isn't all it's cracked up to be, which is I guess why we have tsunamis and earthquakes and childhood cancer that don't exactly scream "pure love". I know 'it' was way too busy to send any sales rep to Earth who shared anything meaningful, like that Australia was sitting out there waiting for some convicts to get sent there, or that disease was caused by such microscopic things as bacteria or viruses, or that Justin Beiber would show up singing pabulum at some point in time.

 

The concept you do not understand---actually concepts---is particle physics.  No deity or collection of deities is necessary.

 

We now return your television to Bronze Age myths.

Sometimes this thread looks like the waiting lounge of a psychologist.

Pls don't take that personally, and sorry if i can't help you more ????

[Walker88]

If religions get tax breaks, then it's only fair that Pro Wrestling also get tax breaks.

[fredwiggy]

Some of us don't "cope" by believing there is a God. We choose to believe because we know and feel it is right,and that's why we made the decision to believe. That's saying we are using our belief to make ourselves feel better, which isn't the case. The Catholic church has stated that an unbaptized baby still has original sin and cannot make it to heaven., or thinking there was a limbo. They have since changed that thinking. A baby can't baptize themselves a,and you don't reach the age of reason, where you understand the difference between that particular right or wrong, until about 8.

[VincentRJ]

35 minutes ago, Mansell said:

Nonsense. Each individual as they gain reasoning powers make their own decision what religion they choose to follow, or not follow, or be an atheist. 

Every heard of 'apostasy'?  Apostasy is the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief or principle.

 

"As of 2019, there are 12 countries that have the death sentence for apostasy, whereas in 13 other countries apostasy is illegal and the government prescribes some form of punishment for apostasy including: torture, imprisonment, annulment of marriage, loss of inheritance rights or custody rights, amongst others."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

 

Ever heard of the 'subconscious' or the 'unconscious mind'? 
 

"The unconscious mind (or the unconscious) consists of the processes in the mind which occur automatically and are not available to introspection and include thought processes, memories, interests and motivations.
Even though these processes exist well under the surface of conscious awareness, they are theorized to exert an impact on behavior."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscious_mind
 

[Walker88]

Siegfried and Roy used to have a heck of a show in Vegas, but the guy who should have had a show was Noah.

 

I mean, it's child's play to keep a drugged tiger from chomping on Mrs. Blimpington in the front row of Caesar's Palace, but imagine sticking lions, tigers and bears, plus T-rex's and woolly mammoths and cute little kitties, plus food for all, and sailing around in a confined space for 40 days and nights, and not have T-rex clean out the cupboards !  THAT's entertainment !

 

 

[Walker88]

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Sometimes this thread looks like the waiting lounge of a psychologist.

Pls don't take that personally, and sorry if i can't help you more ????

The psychologist is needed by those who cling to Bronze Age myths when ever since Francis Bacon humans have had little excuse to latch on to such silliness as skydaddies and virgin births.

 

Don't take that personally; some people just cannot accept reality; hence lots of religions from which to choose.

[fredwiggy]

Noah's journey is hard for a lot to believe, yet if God can create the universe from his mind, I'm guessing he can make it so animals don't eat each other for 40 days. And T-rex's and Woolly Mammoths weren't around then anyway.

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, Walker88 said:

some people just cannot accept reality

hmmm, which reality are you talking about exactly?

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Walker88 said:

The psychologist is needed by those who cling to Bronze Age myths when ever since Francis Bacon humans have had little excuse to latch on to such silliness as skydaddies and virgin births.

 

Don't take that personally; some people just cannot accept reality; hence lots of religions from which to choose.

What is reality then? The explosion theory, that somehow matter was created from nothing?

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

The psychologist is needed by those who cling to Bronze Age myths when ever since Francis Bacon humans have had little excuse to latch on to such silliness as skydaddies and virgin births.

 

Don't take that personally; some people just cannot accept reality; hence lots of religions from which to choose.

You are barking at the wrong tree, but i understand we are living in difficult times.

Peace ????

[Walker88]

7 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Some of us don't "cope" by believing there is a God. We choose to believe because we know and feel it is right,and that's why we made the decision to believe. That's saying we are using our belief to make ourselves feel better, which isn't the case. The Catholic church has stated that an unbaptized baby still has original sin and cannot make it to heaven., or thinking there was a limbo. They have since changed that thinking. A baby can't baptize themselves a,and you don't reach the age of reason, where you understand the difference between that particular right or wrong, until about 8.

The only truth in the bible was 'ashes to ashes, dust to dust'.

 

More correctly, stardust to stardust.

 

Actually, it's kind of exciting, even romantic, to think all you are came from violent explosions of stars, fusion of hydrogen atoms that went on to build into carbon and the other atoms that make up your body. Negative and positive charges of molecules then allow flow, which creates both electricity and what you perceive as thoughts and consciousness. Reality is actually astonishing and fascinating, and much more interesting than the myths and superstitions that comforted people when ignorance reigned supreme (and in far too many cases still does).

[teatime101]

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Noah's journey is hard for a lot to believe

Nono, I accept 100% that penguins swam from the Antarctic to the Middle East - and back again. When you believe in an all powerful magical being, anything's possible, after all.

[Walker88]

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

What is reality then? The explosion theory, that somehow matter was created from nothing?

Sorry fred, I suspect you cannot do the math. Yes, 'something' can come from 'nothing'.  Because of some discoveries made via the Large Hadron Collider, the behavior of subatomic particles that was first theorized using topology and higher level math was proven.  it's fascinating, but incredibly complex.

 

Of course, those who believe their deity is something that came from nothing should have no problem accepting at least the concept that has come to light via the work of folks like the late Richard Feynman and Lawrence Krauss, and subsequently proven by observations made via the LHC.

[Walker88]

2 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

Nono, I accept 100% that penguins swam from the Antarctic to the Middle East - and back again. When you believe in an all powerful magical being, anything's possible, after all.

To be fair, the penguins were properly dressed for an occasion of biblical importance. Fred Astaire would be jealous of their duds.

[Sunmaster]

13 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

some people just cannot accept reality

maybe you missed my question, so I'll ask again...
Which reality are you talking about exactly? 

[fredwiggy]

Ignorance is believing that reality is an explosion that made everything. Matter cannot be made from nothing. The stars, fusion of hydrogen atoms weren't there already. Everything comes from a creation. Who's creation? God's of course. Everything that we are, how the brain works, the fact that everything alive needs what our earth has,water,air and food. The body and its marvels, in fact ,all animals, the different species all put here for our enjoyment, food, protection or entertainment . The distance from the sun just "happened"? Gravity to hold us on earth. True, we cannot prove there is a God, just as no one can prove an explosion happened, so it's still about faith. Many people have died, with no brain function, and have said they ,not just saw a "light", but that they met Jesus, saw relatives and friends, a beautiful place. Yes, some may be looking for their 15 minutes, but can it be explained that a little boy, who never met his grandfather or mother's unborn child, met them both when he died for a few minutes? He was never told about the sister he almost had. Maybe the preacher father made that up too? Could be. And  there are doubters everywhere  that don't want to believe there is a creator, our God, and choose to let the chips fall where they may. I feel sorry for them, because how crappy this world can be, we believe there is a better place if we only have faith. Again, if God can create the universe from his mind, he can do much everything else. Penguins, who swim anyway ,and who said icebergs weren't still there when the rains came?

Edited May 4, 2020 by fredwiggy

[Walker88]

What irritates me most about the superstitions we collectively call religion is that Westerners in particular seem incapable of separating the comforting myth from a firm belief in science.  In a world where scientific discovery is intimately tied with economic progress and with providing the best opportunity for the greatest number of people, disparagement of fact and science is putting the West behind and will eventually harm the society.

 

We still have many great minds in the West, but increasingly that have to deal with silliness like putting abject nonsense like 'intelligent design' (sic) or 'creationism' on the same level with Evolution. As particle physics develops more and more, a more intense understanding of the nature of nature can lead to unimaginable discoveries in such areas as energy generation or even medicine. Poverty is never going to be eradicated by praying, nor is any disease going to be cured by it. Science, and only science, can deliver the greatest benefit to the greatest number of people.

 

As the West is slipping back into Dark Age thinking and superstition, it is not inconceivable that the same scorn and dangers directed toward great thinkers like Galileo will come back and halt progress and understanding of nature. We are lucky that myth had taken a back seat in the golden age of discovery when men like Michael Faraday and James Maxwell uncovered most of the key forces of nature. That any of us can type a message and post it on this board is thanks not to any 'holy man', but to people like Maxwell and Faraday.

[Walker88]

7 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Ignorance is believing that reality is an explosion that made everything. Matter cannot be made from nothing. The stars, fusion of hydrogen atoms weren't there already. Everything comes from a creation. Who's creation? God's of course. Everything that we are, how the brain works, the fact that everything alive needs what our earth has,water,air and food. The body and its marvels, in fact ,all animals, the different species all put here for our enjoyment, food, protection or entertainment . The distance from the sun just "happened"? Gravity to hold us on earth. True, we cannot prove there is a God, just as no one can prove an explosion happened, so it's still about faith. Many people have died, with no brain function, and have said they ,not just saw a "light", but that they met Jesus, saw relatives and friends, a beautiful place. Yes, some may be looking for their 15 minutes, but can it be explained that a little boy, who never met his grandfather or mother's unborn child, met them both when he died for a few minutes? He was never told about the sister he almost had. Maybe the preacher father made that up too? Could be. And  there are doubters everywhere  that don't want to believe there is a creator, our God, and choose to let the chips fall where they may. I feel sorry for them, because how crappy this world can be, we believe there is a better place if we only have faith.

freddy, your ignorance of math and particle physics is equivalent to the belief that the Earth must be flat, otherwise we'd all fall off.

 

Just because you don't understand the nature of reality doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Yes, freddy, something can come from nothing. It has now been proven.

[Sunmaster]

11 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Just because you don't understand the nature of reality doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Since you're conveniently ignoring my previous questions, here is something for you.

 

Just because you don't understand that there is more to life than what you can see and touch, doesn't mean others are incapable too. 

Your ignorance in this field is second only to your arrogance in presenting "your reality" as the only reality.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Sunmaster

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Mansell said:

Nonsense. Each individual as they gain reasoning powers make their own decision what religion they choose to follow, or not follow, or be an atheist. 

Was the word "Nonsense" a warning of what was to follow on your reply? 

If what you say is true then how do you explain the influence geographic location has in determining one's religion? 

How do you explain that most citizens of Saudi Arabia are Muslims? and that not only are they Muslims but that most of them are Sunni Muslims ? 

 Did the sunny weather at that region  influence their "reasoning powers"?

How do you explain the same phenomenon in almost every country, does the local weather, or cuisine influence the development of "reasoning powers" to a similar conclusion? Perhaps too much Curry in india? Olive oil for the Greek Orthodoxs?  

[fredwiggy]

It's relatively easy to google about things and make it look like you understand them. Where has it been proven that the creation of our universe can be explained? Where does it say that matter can come from nothing? The Hadron Collider needs matter to work does it not? What is then a hadron? Where did these particles come from? Guessing someone has ignorance on a subject is ignorance. Physics isn't my thing, yes, but show me where our universe was created from nothing. And all life started from this? Read what I have said and explain how every living thing on earth came from what exactly? We all evolved from primordial ooze? The earth just happened to be exactly where it should be in relation to the sun? You believe in science, that it can explain everything. It cannot. I believe there was a creator. When you pass on from this world, you will meet him and say, damn, that freddy was right. Some people don't want to admit that there is a higher entity that is in charge of their lives. That's why they use other theories, albeit science.

Edited May 4, 2020 by fredwiggy

[yodsak]

[Walker88]

29 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Ignorance is believing that reality is an explosion that made everything. Matter cannot be made from nothing. The stars, fusion of hydrogen atoms weren't there already. Everything comes from a creation. Who's creation? God's of course. Everything that we are, how the brain works, the fact that everything alive needs what our earth has,water,air and food. The body and its marvels, in fact ,all animals, the different species all put here for our enjoyment, food, protection or entertainment . The distance from the sun just "happened"? Gravity to hold us on earth. True, we cannot prove there is a God, just as no one can prove an explosion happened, so it's still about faith. Many people have died, with no brain function, and have said they ,not just saw a "light", but that they met Jesus, saw relatives and friends, a beautiful place. Yes, some may be looking for their 15 minutes, but can it be explained that a little boy, who never met his grandfather or mother's unborn child, met them both when he died for a few minutes? He was never told about the sister he almost had. Maybe the preacher father made that up too? Could be. And  there are doubters everywhere  that don't want to believe there is a creator, our God, and choose to let the chips fall where they may. I feel sorry for them, because how crappy this world can be, we believe there is a better place if we only have faith.

fred, put the shovel down and stop digging.

 

The superstitious think that if they say 'something can't come from nothing' they win.  Of course, as I noted, an old argument of similar 'value' was "Earth must be flat, otherwise we'd fall off". Ignorance of the laws and forces of nature does not connote proof, merely ignorance.

 

Anyway, once they think they won, they get really silly extrapolating.

 

Okay, let's give you your myth---the Universe was 'created'.

 

How the heck from that do you get there's only one deity? Why not a couple? A team? Competing teams who take turns creating Universes and watching what happens? The superstitious act as if 'monotheism' is as significant as E=mc^2. No. One is myth, the other fact.

 

Also, how from 'it was created' do you get to things like don't stick your male appendage where it doesn't belong, or obey your dad and mom, or any of the other rules some skydaddy supposedly handed down to Bronze Age peasants?

 

Your belief system takes a leap of faith that would make Evel Knievel envious.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Walker88
add

[yodsak]

[sirineou]

8 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

If we say that materialism is a consequence of being atheist, and greed is a consequence of materialism, and violence is a consequence of greed, there you have your answer.

and if we said that Grandma had a dick would we call her Grandpa ?????

[yodsak]

[fredwiggy]

 Stop digging? lol You're the one that is actually burning your bridge. My belief system happens to be millions of others also. Your choice to think that we all came from whatever will be a hard lesson when you die. If there are more than one God, although you believe there wasn't even one, why hasn't any of them made his presence known, so he could overrule the others and get more followers? Believing in God isn't superstition. It's faith. God made commandments to be followed. If you've read them, they make sense,no? He wants what's best for us. Neither you nor I can prove our points. I choose to believe in God. You need something else for your safety. When we die, we will both see. I pray that you will see the "light"

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

and if we said that Grandma had a dick would we call her Grandpa ?????

Well, for some similar answers you accuse others of trolling you, i understand that these are difficult times, yet i have to say i'm a bit disappointed.

Honestly, what kind of answer do you expect for such drivel ?

[Walker88]

26 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Since you're conveniently ignoring my previous questions, here is something for you.

 

Just because you don't understand that there is more to life than what you can see and touch, doesn't mean others are incapable too. 

Your ignorance in this field is second only to your arrogance in presenting "your reality" as the only reality.

More silliness.

 

Science is one of those things that expects something to work not approximately, not occasionally, not when it's in the mood, but all the time. The fact that you can type a message here, send it out with a keystroke via an electronic impulse, then have it appear almost at the speed of light (joule effect and other things might prevent it from going full LS) is something 'theorized' by science.  The thing is it works. Every time.

 

As for your 'beliefs', all you have is faith. Science has proof. Repeatable events that always follow the same laws constitute proof.

 

I guess the best response is from Christopher Hitchens:

 

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[Walker88]

6 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

 Stop digging? lol You're the one that is actually burning your bridge. My belief system happens to be millions of others also. Your choice to think that we all came from whatever will be a hard lesson when you die. If there are more than one God, although you believe there wasn't even one, why hasn't any of them made his presence known, so he could overrule the others and get more followers? Believing in God isn't superstition. It's faith. God made commandments to be followed. If you've read them, they make sense,no? He wants what's best for us. Neither you nor I can prove our points. I choose to believe in God. You need something else for your safety. When we die, we will both see. I pray that you will see the "light"

AH, freddy, don't rely on the argument of 'millions of others' believe what you believe. That wouldn't win a high school debate.

 

Millions of people think Kim Kardashian is a talent.

 

Millions of people---actually, probably billions---absolutely were certain the Earth was flat. (Disclaimer:  it's not)

 

Collective ignorance does not equal truth.