Do you believe in God and why

[fredwiggy]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course. God isn't a gender, but God can make anything God wants. However God isn't going to do party tricks to impress the non believers. Creating the universe is about as cool as it gets in anyone's opinion.

Party tricks lol

[Tagged]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

Do you not believe in "love"? There is no evidence for the existence of "love". Have you never experienced Deja Vu? There is no evidence that it exists, but many of us experience it.

Can't be bothered with writing all the dozens of other inexplicable things that I've experienced in my life, but they exist.

Have a nice day.

Yes I believe in chemicals, and it is proven chemicals do play a huge role in spiritualism, religion and love! The human brain is a multiverse itself with all the mystery and chemicals you need to survive on planet earth. So the deeper you digg in to the spiritualism your reward yourself with more chemicals, and everytime you believe you understand more, are right and the more you master, you get your reward, but it is also addective. Thats my view of it. 

[NotYourBusiness]

New Rule: anyone replying to this thread must FIRST read all 561 pages!

[fredwiggy]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

I am thinking, I may indeed be wrong.

 

Fredwiggy has indeed right to his opinion.

 

I only have problems with it because it is so extreme ( well at least for me ).

 

So sorry Fredwiggy, I am totally not agree with you,

but your opinion is as good ( or bad )than mine is.

 

Thanks Sunmaster to point it to me.

 

Time for me to relax and cogitate by listening to some classical music ( Erik Satie this time )

 

 

 

Yes, I may be wrong, but there are too many things I've seen or heard that convinces me otherwise. I see miracles happen although not in person, that seem very real to me. Of course there are con artists in religion also, and those that do it for money, but that's not what I'm referring to. Just one is where the little boy died , for a few minutes, and saw a grandfather he never met and described him to his preacher father and mother. Also he told his mom he saw his little sister, who died from a miscarriage (I believe). He was never told she existed. Yes, this can be the parents bs'ing to try and get followers, but why? Looking at the universe and knowing in my heart and mind it had to have been created, with a million reasons why. How the brain works, the reason the earth is exactly the right distance from the sun, how everything alive needs water, food and air to exist and it;s all on this one planet, the intricacies of a flies wing, the differences of so many species. It's not possible all of this came from evolution, and even if it did, that the universe just happened. One day we will all know the answer, unless as some think, when we die, we just die and nothing happens afterwards.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, I may be wrong, but there are too many things I've seen or heard that convinces me otherwise. I see miracles happen although not in person, that seem very real to me. Of course there are con artists in religion also, and those that do it for money, but that's not what I'm referring to. Just one is where the little boy died , for a few minutes, and saw a grandfather he never met and described him to his preacher father and mother. Also he told his mom he saw his little sister, who died from a miscarriage (I believe). He was never told she existed. Yes, this can be the parents bs'ing to try and get followers, but why? Looking at the universe and knowing in my heart and mind it had to have been created, with a million reasons why. How the brain works, the reason the earth is exactly the right distance from the sun, how everything alive needs water, food and air to exist and it;s all on this one planet, the intricacies of a flies wing, the differences of so many species. It's not possible all of this came from evolution, and even if it did, that the universe just happened. One day we will all know the answer, unless as some think, when we die, we just die and nothing happens afterwards.

IMO the difference between one that believes in religion, and one that doesn't is that a religious person thinks the world was created for US. The rest of us believe that we evolved to fit the existence that was already there for millions of years.

We evolved needing the earth to be as far from the sun as it is, needing water and food to keep our biological machine functioning to carry us around.

On a different planet creatures may evolve that are made from silicone and live on chlorine. Doesn't mean they are less creatures of God than us though. God created the universe and everything in it, not just humans. Far as I'm concerned we are just passing through and will eventually pollute ourselves into extinction.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, NotYourBusiness said:

New Rule: anyone replying to this thread must FIRST read all 561 pages!

No need to read all of them, but just reading the last page is pointless as will have no idea of what has gone before. If one knows nothing about the discussion how can one contribute in a meaningful way?

[Peter Denis]

47 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

... Trying to convert is saving their souls, with their agreement of course, and is neither arrogant or ignorant. ...

 

[Tagged]

@thaibeachlovers

 

Natural highs

 

What happens to brains during spiritual experiences. 

 

"

Hamer compares the effects of this variation to an enhanced capacity for natural highs. This spiritual tendency also depends on a person’s environment, according to Hamer, which can direct their innate spirituality to particular religious beliefs, and/or steer them away from religion altogether. He says that science will never replace spirituality because a reliance on facts will never have the same emotional appeal.

Newberg agrees that spiritual beliefs are influenced by a person’s genetics and environment, and that meditation practices are more effective when they reinforce a practitioner’s belief system. However, he says researchers are still investigating whether religious beliefs in general make healthier and happier people. He considers atheism to be a belief system as well, and says that a possible a mental health benefit of belonging to a religious denomination could be not just belief, but the built-in social network."

 

read more 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/06/what-happens-to-brains-during-spiritual-experiences/361882/

 

 

What does religon do to your brain

 

"Whether or not a divine power truly does exist might be a matter of opinion, but the neurophysiological effects of religious belief are scientific facts that can be accurately measured. Here, we take a look at some of these effects, as shown by the latest research.

 

The latter are euphoria-inducing molecules whose name comes from the phrase “endogenous morphine.” Such neurophysiological effects of religion seem to give the dictum “Religion is the opium of the people” a new level of meaning.

 

Religion is like ‘sex, drugs, and rock ‘n’ roll’

 

For instance, some scientists suggest that religious experience activates the same brain circuits as sex and drugs."

 

Dismiss religion do affect your euphoria system in your brain, is, well, im not going to debate more with you about it, I can just speak for myself, that it works like drugs ounder the right circumstanses. Never felt so high before as ounder a session singing, chanting and the social network at a yoga center where there was alot of love surrounding us, and of course the useal intercourses and so on. But no other stimulants involved. But also realized how dangerous it was, and how bad it can be for some vulnerable people. But thats another story. 

 

Read more here

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322539

[teatime101]

20 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

As far as I've learned, one sin is as bad as any other, although I don't think that myself, but it's what was taught.

That alone should make you very skeptical of the people and institutions that try to sell you this garbage.

[teatime101]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There is no evidence for the existence of "love".

That's because it's not a 'thing'. It's a broad term used to describe feelings or relationships. Are they real?Of course. But feelings are subjective, ie they're not 'observable' entities, they only exist for the person experiencing them.

 

Religious claims are no different to magical claims. They cannot be observed or demonstrated, and are purely subjective. Loving a living creature makes perfect sense, loving a magical being doesn't. It can't love you back any more than an imaginary friend can.

[teatime101]

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

I see miracles happen although not in person, that seem very real to me.

Do you read your stuff before clicking Submit Reply? You are digging your hole deeper every time you post.

 

I appreciate that you do believe in climate change and are not fooled by Trump. Two big brownie points for you.

Edited June 16, 2020 by teatime101

[fredwiggy]

5 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

Do you read your stuff before clicking Submit Reply? You are digging your hole deeper every time you post.

 

I appreciate that you do believe in climate change and are not fooled by Trump. Two big brownie points for you.

Actually, I don't have a hole dug. You can not disprove a word I've said. That makes you look silly every reply you make. I'm not fooled by anyone, and Trump is no exception. Have you ever read of any miracles? I'm sure if you have, science would be your first resort, and then to dismiss them as either bs or done by mirrors.

[teatime101]

27 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Have you ever read of any miracles?

You must think I live in my mom's basement. 

 

27 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I'm sure if you have, science would be your first resort, and then to dismiss them as either bs or done by mirrors.

Yes, exactly. What do you rely on - feelings? Somebody told you about a miracle, so you just believe them? Do you have any skepticism for things of a magical nature, or only if it's non-christian magic?

 

Do you believe the angel Gabriel dictated the Quran to Mohammed? Do you believe Thor sits on a cloud and hurls 'thunderbolts'? Do you believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden? These are all out there and some people (do or did) believe them.

 

What makes the 'scripture' in your bible believable? You even conceded that it has flaws. At least that's a start.

Edited June 16, 2020 by teatime101

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, teatime101 said:

You must think I live in my mom's basement. 

 

Yes, exactly. What do you rely on - feelings? Somebody told you about a miracle, so you just believe them? Do you have any skepticism for things of a magical nature, or only if it's non-christian magic?

 

Do you believe the angel Gabriel dictated the Quran to Mohammed? Do you believe Thor sits on a cloud and hurls 'thunderbolts'? Do you believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden? These are all out there and some people (do or did) believe them.

 

What makes the 'scripture' in your bible believable? You even conceded that it has flaws. At least that's a start.

I rely on hearing about miracles and deciding for myself the validity of same. I understand magic very well, as my father was a magician that did things with cards that, even though I caught a number of the tricks, were downright impossible to everyone who saw him. I believe in one God, and not Greek mythology. I'm neither naive or gullible, but again, rely on faith and what I explained many times before, if you read more than just a line or two before you started typing. Anything man made has flaws. The Bible was written by people. People who make mistakes and misunderstand things. What do you mean by that's a start? Do you think anything can convince me that there isn't a God? It will be a lot easier to convince you there is. What happened in your life that turned you against believing? If you're still living with your mom, I'm guessing it may have been her.

[teatime101]

5 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

What happened in your life that turned you against believing?

I was a Christian in my twenties. What happened was I gradually realised that religion is a scam. Not only is the idea of miracles absurd, the people who control the narrative (ie, church hierarchies, etc) are politically on the right, and work with conservative politicians, mainstream media, judges, etc to define and control the moral and social order. 

 

The world is full of gullible people, and religion is the ultimate con, based on the flimsiest of premises.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by teatime101

[teatime101]

5 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

If you're still living with your mom, I'm guessing it may have been her.

She's 93. I left home nearly 50 years ago. She's not the slightest bit religious, but my sister has been a baptist since her teens. We don't talk religion.

[Sunmaster]

31 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

I was a Christian in my twenties. What happened was I gradually realised that religion is a scam. Not only is the idea of miracles absurd, the people who control the narrative (ie, church hierarchies, etc) are politically on the right, and work with conservative politicians, mainstream media, judges, etc to define and control the moral and social order. 

 

The world is full of gullible people, and religion is the ultimate con, based on the flimsiest of premises.

 

Now that you got that out of your (belief) system ????, do you realize that the Divine is not an invention of organized religion, but that instead religions started out as a way to structure the Divine? How the initial intention has changed throughout the centuries is up for debate, but whatever way you think it was handled, the criticism has to be laid squarely on man's feet and has nothing to do with the Divine itself.
Men seek obedience, power, worship, rewards and punishment....the only fuel that drives the universe is simply love.
Do you think that people who see love as this driving principle, who see themselves as a part of an unfathomable yet benevolent reality, who see the interconnectedness of all things, are guillable, uneducated people, simply because you can't see those things?

Please, try to make an effort and recognize the distinction between organized religion which is based on an intellectual understanding of God, and spirituality, which is a personal relationship with the Divine by means of direct experience.

The first writes wordy tomes on how wonderful the ocean is, the second teaches you how to swim in it.

 

[pineapple01]

Reading all this twaddle i can see why i dont believe.

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, pineapple01 said:

Reading all this twaddle i can see why i dont believe.

Not to worry, you'll get it one day. ????????

[StreetCowboy]

3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Now that you got that out of your (belief) system ????, do you realize that the Divine is not an invention of organized religion, but that instead religions started out as a way to structure the Divine? How the initial intention has changed throughout the centuries is up for debate, but whatever way you think it was handled, the criticism has to be laid squarely on man's feet and has nothing to do with the Divine itself.
Men seek obedience, power, worship, rewards and punishment....the only fuel that drives the universe is simply love.
Do you think that people who see love as this driving principle, who see themselves as a part of an unfathomable yet benevolent reality, who see the interconnectedness of all things, are guillable, uneducated people, simply because you can't see those things?

Please, try to make an effort and recognize the distinction between organized religion which is based on an intellectual understanding of God, and spirituality, which is a personal relationship with the Divine by means of direct experience.

The first writes wordy tomes on how wonderful the ocean is, the second teaches you how to swim in it.

 

I've never had my relationship with the divine reciprocated directly.  I had fondly believed that my lack of faith would result in hardship that caused me to reconsider, but to date, it appears that is not the case.   

 

Does it matter whether God exists? If he does, what should I do otherwise, that I would not do if he did not? What will happen to me, if I do not believe, and he exists, but I behave decently, than if I believed, and behaved decently?

 

If I believed, could I commit sin with impunity?  

[fredwiggy]

5 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I've never had my relationship with the divine reciprocated directly.  I had fondly believed that my lack of faith would result in hardship that caused me to reconsider, but to date, it appears that is not the case.   

 

Does it matter whether God exists? If he does, what should I do otherwise, that I would not do if he did not? What will happen to me, if I do not believe, and he exists, but I behave decently, than if I believed, and behaved decently?

 

If I believed, could I commit sin with impunity?  

For your questions......................https://www.truelife.org/answers/isn-t-being-a-good-person-enough-to-get-someone-into-heaven

[Peter Denis]

7 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I've never had my relationship with the divine reciprocated directly.  I had fondly believed that my lack of faith would result in hardship that caused me to reconsider, but to date, it appears that is not the case.   

 

Does it matter whether God exists? If he does, what should I do otherwise, that I would not do if he did not? What will happen to me, if I do not believe, and he exists, but I behave decently, than if I believed, and behaved decently?

 

If I believed, could I commit sin with impunity?  

If you don't experience God in your daily life (or call it being aware that you are part of the larger consciousness that permeats all life), indeed it doesn't matter FOR YOU whether God exists or not. 

The existence or non-existence of God is not something like whether Black Holes or the Higgs boson exist or not.  Even if someone could actually prove that God exists, it wouldn't make any difference if that's only another piece of knowledge for you and you do not experience it.

 

[sezze]

I am not at all religious , but i do know there's more between "heaven and earth" then i ( we ) know off . Does it mean a God or Gods or that we live again or go to heaven , i don't know . It's a answer we never will get , and if we ever get it , we probably are dead anyway . If we come back we don't remember our old life , so doesn't matter . If we don't come back i do not believe at all there is such a thing like heaven and hell , basically since the rules aren't known . Even if you feel like i do , meaning i do get back , whatever i do to other people ( meaning i do good , i get good , and opposite ) , is very personal opinion minded . I believe that even Hitler thought he was doing the right thing , or any other person on this planet .

The future will tell us ( meaning when we die ) , but until then i live my life and try not to get influenced too much by religion .

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Tagged said:

Yes I believe in chemicals, and it is proven chemicals do play a huge role in spiritualism, religion and love! The human brain is a multiverse itself with all the mystery and chemicals you need to survive on planet earth. So the deeper you digg in to the spiritualism your reward yourself with more chemicals, and everytime you believe you understand more, are right and the more you master, you get your reward, but it is also addective. Thats my view of it. 

You overlook the fact that our biological machines function due to chemical reactions, and how it is possible that humans have the ability to get high due to thought processes causing the release of certain chemicals. Perhaps you think it was just an accident, but I think it was designed into us by the creator to allow us to find a higher plane of existence.

Either the universe and everything was designed or it was all just chaos throwing up functioning life processes, like if we gave enough monkeys a typewriter eventually they'd write the works of Shakespeare.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I've never had my relationship with the divine reciprocated directly.  I had fondly believed that my lack of faith would result in hardship that caused me to reconsider, but to date, it appears that is not the case.   

 

Does it matter whether God exists? If he does, what should I do otherwise, that I would not do if he did not? What will happen to me, if I do not believe, and he exists, but I behave decently, than if I believed, and behaved decently?

 

If I believed, could I commit sin with impunity?  

If you actually believed you would not willing commit a sin. If forced to commit a sin, to save a child from death, for instance, and repented for having done it it would be forgiven.

No, there is no impunity.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

I've never had my relationship with the divine reciprocated directly. 

God doesn't intervene as humans have free will.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, teatime101 said:

I was a Christian in my twenties. What happened was I gradually realised that religion is a scam. Not only is the idea of miracles absurd, the people who control the narrative (ie, church hierarchies, etc) are politically on the right, and work with conservative politicians, mainstream media, judges, etc to define and control the moral and social order. 

 

The world is full of gullible people, and religion is the ultimate con, based on the flimsiest of premises.

 

I don't disagree with any of that, but I haven't been claiming that religion is what I believe in either. As per the OP I believe in God.

[teatime101]

13 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Please, try to make an effort and recognize the distinction between organized religion which is based on an intellectual understanding of God, and spirituality, which is a personal relationship with the Divine by means of direct experience.

I'm talking about religion in my last few posts. I thought that was pretty obvious. Private, ie subjective, experiences, 'spiritual' or otherwise, are just that. "I feel x and I believe y".

[teatime101]

50 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

how it is possible that humans have the ability to get high due to thought processes causing the release of certain chemicals. Perhaps you think it was just an accident, but I think it was designed into us by the creator to allow us to find a higher plane of existence.

"I get high, therefore there is a God". Is that a fair interpretation?

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, teatime101 said:

"I get high, therefore there is a God". Is that a fair interpretation?

You confuse causation with consequence.