Do you believe in God and why

[Tagged]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree with everything you wrote, except men as head of household. IMO it doesn't matter as long as decisions are mutual and for the benefit of all in the family. My father was head of the household and was really really bad at it. My mother would have been a far better head of household.

I think this is a myth, women often are much more powerful in home and at home. 

[fredwiggy]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree with everything you wrote, except men as head of household. IMO it doesn't matter as long as decisions are mutual and for the benefit of all in the family. My father was head of the household and was really really bad at it. My mother would have been a far better head of household.

God has man as the leader, and some of what has been stated, has women as followers. I do all the work a wife could do and never give it a thought, but have had some problems here with my own wife because this is a feminine culture where men are mostly silent while the women are the loud complainers, and her dad died and her mom took over, and she's a tyrant. That doesn't work in any culture. The man is the protector and is usually the fixer of things, although letting your wife help with decisions is okay by me.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Tagged said:

I think this is a myth, women often are much more powerful in home and at home. 

Which is why things go wrong.................This explains a little....................https://www.focusonthefamily.com/family-qa/spiritual-leadership-in-the-home/

[Tagged]

5 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Which is why things go wrong.................This explains a little....................https://www.focusonthefamily.com/family-qa/spiritual-leadership-in-the-home/

Im sorry, but those readings, I am really not interesting in. Since we have moved on from ancient times, where it was crucial it was a system and roles in families. Today, even I do not aggree with woman work and men stay home for incent, since I truly believe kids needs their mom home until a surten age. One year is to young, two years? Three years, still to young, and I would say until they start school. Again that remains on social healthy training young kids get in kindergarden for instance, and I also see the importance of. 

 

However, it is up to you to find a wife with same veiw as you, then I would say great for both of you, but forced will on who is going to do what? Nope. 

[thaibeachlovers]

46 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

God has man as the leader, and some of what has been stated, has women as followers. I do all the work a wife could do and never give it a thought, but have had some problems here with my own wife because this is a feminine culture where men are mostly silent while the women are the loud complainers, and her dad died and her mom took over, and she's a tyrant. That doesn't work in any culture. The man is the protector and is usually the fixer of things, although letting your wife help with decisions is okay by me.

I'm not a leader, never wanted to be a leader, went out of my way to not be a leader. That extends to being in a family. Far as I'm concerned I'd rather someone else takes care of all the boring stuff. I just wanted sex.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm not a leader, never wanted to be a leader, went out of my way to not be a leader. That extends to being in a family. Far as I'm concerned I'd rather someone else takes care of all the boring stuff. I just wanted sex.

Then you stay single, because most women want more. A normal woman wants a man to take charge, but not look at her as a slave. When things turn to a woman in charge, it never works.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Then you stay single, because most women want more. A normal woman wants a man to take charge, but not look at her as a slave. When things turn to a woman in charge, it never works.

If that's true, and IMO it's not ( most women I know want to be the boss ), I'm happy not to be with a woman. I don't want someone so pathetic she has to be dictated to. I always looked for a woman that was my equal, not less nor more than I.

My first partner was my equal, but I left her because she didn't love me. My second was my equal, but I divorced her because she put her family over me- the end came when she demanded I give them my money.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

If that's true, and IMO it's not ( most women I know want to be the boss ), I'm happy not to be with a woman. I don't want someone so pathetic she has to be dictated to. I always looked for a woman that was my equal, not less nor more than I.

My first partner was my equal, but I left her because she didn't love me. My second was my equal, but I divorced her because she put her family over me- the end came when she demanded I give them my money.

If you left her, she wasn't your equal. If any spouse puts anyone before their spouse, they aren't equals. Equal means making decisions together, yet still looking at the man as the leader. A leader doesn't have to be a dictator or slave owner.

[Peter Denis]

4 hours ago, yodsak said:

Research reveals that Biblical literalism is strongly correlated with a host of social maladies and inhumane world-views. For instance, people who think the Bible is the literal word of God are more likely to physically abuse their children, harbour hatred of homosexuals, deny the evidence for climate change, love semi-automatic assault weapons, oppose women’s equality, oppose humane treatment of animals, oppose universal-subsidised health care, and to vote for incompetent, unintelligent, unhinged men for president. 

            

 The Bible fosters moral-outsourcing, which is when an individual does not base their moral decisions on their own conscience, or on matters of harming or helping others, or on empathy and compassion, but on simply and blindly obeying the commandments of a magic invisible deity. — Psychology Today  

The first paragraph in your post is a stereo-type and although there will almost surely be statistical evidence that those inclined to Biblical literalism tend to the abominations mentioned, it remains a stereo-type and many Biblical literalists (more often the real serious ones) will rightfully condemn these abominations.

 

The second paragraph is more interesting, and does not only relate to the Bible but is also applicable for the Qoran, Torah, or any other Holy Book.

It is our individual morality that makes us really human and brings us closer to God, not the blind reliance on religious scriptures (including spiritual sources, like theosophy, antroposphy and others).

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

If you left her, she wasn't your equal. If any spouse puts anyone before their spouse, they aren't equals. Equal means making decisions together, yet still looking at the man as the leader. A leader doesn't have to be a dictator or slave owner.

I'll leave to you to your opinions, though I disagree with them.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

I'll leave to you to your opinions, though I disagree with them.

Actually they aren't opinions, but facts on how a marriage works. God himself, who this post is about, through his word, states God first, spouse second, children third, family fourth and friends last. If you think about it, it makes sense, because if you put the children first, they grow up self centered, thinking the world revolves around them. If you put your spouse after anyone, they think they don't mean enough to you and when the kids are grown and gone, what's left? Marriages fail because people are mentally ill, cheat, abuse or their priorities are wrong.

[Peter Denis]

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

If you left her, she wasn't your equal. If any spouse puts anyone before their spouse, they aren't equals. Equal means making decisions together, yet still looking at the man as the leader. A leader doesn't have to be a dictator or slave owner.

Have to agree with you on that one. 

Man and woman are equal, but not same.  Each have their distinctive gender qualities.

In an Asian cultural mindset asian women actually agree with this, and instinctively dismiss the extremist western feminism stance as 'unnatural'.

My thai lady will surely voice her opinion when decisions need to be made, but she wants and expects me to have the final say in them.  It did take me some time to understand this as I come from a Western background where I did see some alpha-women that took the decisions in family-matters often over-ruling the men.  But their 'victories' actually didn't make them happy because subconciously they lost respect for their men that allowed them to overrule the natural order.

In my home-country I would be crucified for stating this, as it will be incorrectly explained as inferiority-superiority which it is not.  Man and woman are equal, but not same.  YIn and Yang.

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Then you stay single, because most women want more. A normal woman wants a man to take charge, but not look at her as a slave. When things turn to a woman in charge, it never works.

Im not sure if Im going to laugh or cry, you are surtenely something. Countries with woman leaders, have been doing good lateley, especially concerning covid handling. 

[fredwiggy]

24 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Im not sure if Im going to laugh or cry, you are surtenely something. Countries with woman leaders, have been doing good lateley, especially concerning covid handling. 

Women as leaders is never a problem, besides in the family. A woman can do most anything a man can do, and vice-versa. If women and men work together, all problems can be solved. When one overrides the other, acting like a dictator, nothing is ever resolved.

[Tagged]

19 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Women as leaders is never a problem, besides in the family. A woman can do most anything a man can do, and vice-versa. If women and men work together, all problems can be solved. When one overrides the other, acting like a dictator, nothing is ever resolved.

Some men is better at hard work with heavy things, but I have seen Often woman work harder than men, especially here in thailand, and are willing to walk to extra mile to get things done. But I doesnt say anything about the men who also do hard work. Woman often do the extra work in home as well as they do everything else needed to get things go around with little money, and also a useless husband. But I do also see the useless woman around where I have been, so it is not only black and white. People are people and people do what people do. 

[fredwiggy]

53 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Some men is better at hard work with heavy things, but I have seen Often woman work harder than men, especially here in thailand, and are willing to walk to extra mile to get things done. But I doesnt say anything about the men who also do hard work. Woman often do the extra work in home as well as they do everything else needed to get things go around with little money, and also a useless husband. But I do also see the useless woman around where I have been, so it is not only black and white. People are people and people do what people do. 

This is why I have learned over the years , by listening and reading over 50 relationship books, on topics such as relating to women, children, mental illnesses and how they destroy family life, that it isn't a woman's job to do any particular household thing. I saw my dad cook, clean and take responsibility for our family, while my mom did the household and kid things. I cook, clean, do yard and farm work, help with our child, and am faithful, loyal and generous. My wife was brought up in a family without love and affection, and abuse, so what I do isn't "normal" to her. Most men will never do what I do, and the ones that are like me will agree. This doesn't mean my life is any easier, because when you are treated badly all your life, sometimes you sabotage your adult relationships. Still I will not change me.

[Tagged]

30 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

This is why I have learned over the years , by listening and reading over 50 relationship books, on topics such as relating to women, children, mental illnesses and how they destroy family life, that it isn't a woman's job to do any particular household thing. I saw my dad cook, clean and take responsibility for our family, while my mom did the household and kid things. I cook, clean, do yard and farm work, help with our child, and am faithful, loyal and generous. My wife was brought up in a family without love and affection, and abuse, so what I do isn't "normal" to her. Most men will never do what I do, and the ones that are like me will agree. This doesn't mean my life is any easier, because when you are treated badly all your life, sometimes you sabotage your adult relationships. Still I will not change me.

I also did that when I had a western gf studying and I worked 2 weeks on and 3 and 4 weeks off. I cleaned to house, the care when I left, and did the same when I came home, left her to be ready to go somewhere when I had a couple of days of rest. We adjust our selfves to what benefits us and our closest, as you with your kids. You want the best for them right, and it seems your wife is not up to your standards, so you have to do it instead. 

 

I almost did the same here, and have done farm work, and also still do what they (thais) can not do propely, but since I am taking care, make sure her parents get paid for the months work on the farm, her cousin help to clean once or twice a week, and I pay all the building, land and daily cost to maintanence, Im not going to work for them. I take care of them, they take care of me, and thats my rule. If I had kids, it would have been different, and we do not have non, but I do take care of the dog 24/7 except she feed him to make that connection with him, which I see as important when I can leave Thailand for work again. 

 

There is many ways it can work out, but this is not an equal relationship except we both take care of each other. 

[yodsak]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What "research"? No links so it's just your opinion.

Apologies, here's the link:

bible-belief-in-decline

 

More good news on the secularization front: fewer and fewer Americans believe that the Bible is the literal word of God. According to the latest national survey by Gallup, conducted in the first week of May, 2017, only 24% of Americans now believe that the Bible is the literal word of God—the lowest percentage ever recorded by Gallup on this measure. And 26% of Americans now consider the Bible “a book of fables, legends, history and moral precepts recorded by man”—the first time in Gallup polling history that this skeptical, humanistic view of the Bible is more widespread in America than Biblical literalism.  

 

   The Bible has some nice stories (and also some horrific ones), some fine ethical precepts (and also some savagely immoral precepts, to be sure) and plenty of philosophical gems (Ecclesiastes is my favorite). It should be read as an amazing document of early human thought and imagination. It should be read as a foundational source of Western Civilization (for good and for ill). It should be appreciated for its creative depth and literary width. But it should not be read as the literal words of a god. And as fewer and fewer people do so, the world will improve. 

 

Literal readings of nonliteral texts can also lead to fraudulent readings, dogmatic tenacity to ahistorical or unscientific claims, and the loss of credibility for those who insist on nonsensical interpretations. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by yodsak

[yodsak]

 

 

 

“While believing strongly, without evidence, is considered a mark of madness or stupidity in any other area of our lives, faith in God still holds immense prestige in our society. Religion is the one area of our discourse where it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about. It is telling that this aura of nobility extends only to those faiths that still have many subscribers. Anyone caught worshipping Poseidon, even at sea, will be thought insane.”     ― Sam Harris

[Odysseus123]

26 minutes ago, yodsak said:

only 24% of Americans now believe that the Bible is the literal word of God—the lowest percentage ever recorded by Gallup on this measure.

Well..that is good news (so to speak) but it is still almost a quarter of the population which,when you come to think of it,is really quite astounding.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

spouse second, children third, family fourth and friends last.

That's all common sense and didn't need to be handed down from God, who no doubt has better things to do in the universe than tell an, IMO, insignificant species on an insignificant planet in an insignificant solar system how to live their lives.

 

Your argument falls apart, IMO, when one realises that God gave us free will to do whatever we like. Free will contradicts rules that must be followed, which would be the opposite of free will.

 

BTW, first is ourselves, as if we do not put ourselves first we are nothing more than doormats. Spouse can, IMO be of either gender, and not specifically female.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 minutes ago, yodsak said:

 

 

 

“While believing strongly, without evidence, is considered a mark of madness or stupidity in any other area of our lives, faith in God still holds immense prestige in our society. Religion is the one area of our discourse where it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about. It is telling that this aura of nobility extends only to those faiths that still have many subscribers. Anyone caught worshipping Poseidon, even at sea, will be thought insane.”     ― Sam Harris

While believing strongly, without evidence, is considered a mark of madness or stupidity in any other area of our lives,

Rubbish. Plenty of other things that people believe without evidence. There is zero evidence to think that people will stay married till death do them part, even though they swear to do so, there is zero evidence to believe that politicians don't lie when they promise the world if we vote for them, and there is zero evidence that "love" is real ( IMO "love" is the biggest falsehood ever perpetuated on men ).

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Tagged said:

People are people and people do what people do. 

Never a truer word said.

 

When I see what disasters marriages are I'm so glad I never had children. At least I didn't bring more people into the world to suffer as I have.

 

My life was a few really awesome periods separated by really bad situations and the bad bits were way longer than the good bits.

I've met some wonderful people, but of the ones I've had personal dealings with, the horrible people were far more numerous than the good.

[fredwiggy]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's all common sense and didn't need to be handed down from God, who no doubt has better things to do in the universe than tell an, IMO, insignificant species on an insignificant planet in an insignificant solar system how to live their lives.

 

Your argument falls apart, IMO, when one realises that God gave us free will to do whatever we like. Free will contradicts rules that must be followed, which would be the opposite of free will.

 

BTW, first is ourselves, as if we do not put ourselves first we are nothing more than doormats. Spouse can, IMO be of either gender, and not specifically female.

Free will is a choice, but as in all things, rules still have to be followed, and many of God's rules make sense even if you don't believe in him. Even if life has rules, you can still, by free will, ignore them. That's the choice we make. You believe or you don't. If you don't, there are consequences, just as there are consequences to ignoring rules.  So we're an insignificant species? What are the significant ones? And if each of you puts the other first, you'll have a good marriage. If one is selfish, you won't.

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Never a truer word said.

 

When I see what disasters marriages are I'm so glad I never had children. At least I didn't bring more people into the world to suffer as I have.

 

My life was a few really awesome periods separated by really bad situations and the bad bits were way longer than the good bits.

I've met some wonderful people, but of the ones I've had personal dealings with, the horrible people were far more numerous than the good.

I also decided to not have any kids in to this world after I discovered how meaningsless this world was at 12, but decission on not having kids came later, since I realized I was to restless to have kids, and I did not see me sitting at home with them, and giving the the care they needed either. Now I am in a perfect situation to have kids, but still see the world as F up as it is, and also still a meaningsless place where from my point of view, it is egoistic to put more kids on this planet. I would bee to worried about them I guess to. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

Free will is a choice, but as in all things, rules still have to be followed, and many of God's rules make sense even if you don't believe in him. Even if life has rules, you can still, by free will, ignore them. That's the choice we make. You believe or you don't. If you don't, there are consequences, just as there are consequences to ignoring rules.  So we're an insignificant species? What are the significant ones? And if each of you puts the other first, you'll have a good marriage. If one is selfish, you won't.

Over 50% get divorced and many live in bad marriages. Perhaps marriage is a bad idea.

 

Dinosaurs lived for about 165 million years. A species that will end in less that one million ( IMO ) years, because it murdered it's own, polluted the earth sea and sky, destroyed it's environment and overpopulated the planet is not, IMO, deserving of being called significant.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Tagged said:

I also decided to not have any kids in to this world after I discovered how meaningsless this world was at 12, but decission on not having kids came later, since I realized I was to restless to have kids, and I did not see me sitting at home with them, and giving the the care they needed either. Now I am in a perfect situation to have kids, but still see the world as F up as it is, and also still a meaningsless place where from my point of view, it is egoistic to put more kids on this planet. I would bee to worried about them I guess to. 

If more people were like us, perhaps the world would be a better place to live in. IMO most of our problems come from overpopulation.

 

Even rats behave better

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun

In March 1947, he began a 28-month study of a colony of Norway rats in a 10,000-square-foot (930 m2) outdoor pen. Even though five females over this time-span could theoretically produce 5,000 healthy progeny for this size pen, Calhoun found that the population never exceeded 200 individuals, and stabilized at 150. Moreover, the rats were not randomly scattered throughout the pen area, but had organized themselves into twelve or thirteen local colonies of a dozen rats each. He noted that twelve rats is the maximum number that can live harmoniously in a natural group, beyond which stress and psychological effects function as group break-up forces.

[transam]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Over 50% get divorced and many live in bad marriages. Perhaps marriage is a bad idea.

 

Dinosaurs lived for about 165 million years. A species that will end in less that one million ( IMO ) years, because it murdered it's own, polluted the earth sea and sky, destroyed it's environment and overpopulated the planet is not, IMO, deserving of being called significant.

Thought marriage was a man made thingy, in fact, not many creatures of our planet stay with the same mate for life...????.....Plus, many creatures show their offspring the door at a certain age/time....????

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, transam said:

Thought marriage was a man made thingy, in fact, not many creatures of our planet stay with the same mate for life...????.....Plus, many creatures show their offspring the door at a certain age/time....????

Adelie penguins mate for life.

Humans don't kick the offspring out any more because humans got soft. I was on my own at 18, after I left school, but that was long ago.

Had my wife kicked the bum nephew out we might still be married. Her loss.

 

Marriage was, IMO, invented to stop men killing each other over women, though it didn't really work. In the old days women were men's property, and daughters were sold, which led to the custom of the father "giving the bride away" to the groom when the bride became her husband's property.

Marriages were also arranged and veils were to stop the groom running away when he saw how ugly she was till they were joined for life ( jokin'- I don't know the real reason ). Saudis still have arranged marriages, which might explain why they get four goes at it.

 

Royals had to marry to join countries in treaties, but the common folk married to provide daughters to look after them in old age, and the man was working himself to an early death, so needed someone to bring up the kids and cook his meals. When one died by 40 year old I guess it didn't really matter if she was pretty or not- it didn't last long anyway.

 

If anything proves to me that men are dumb it is that we still get married and end up giving her all our worldly goods.

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[Dene16]

On 4/14/2019 at 4:29 PM, marcusarelus said:

I think is wrong, immoral, harmful and hurtful and responsible for millions of deaths pain and suffering. 

Religion has been the cause of millions of deaths throughout history and was the cause of most wars.

A lot has changed in the last century and even more so in the last half century

Belief in a god is a drying ideology  within the western world but still thrives in other cultures

My father, a hard line atheist, suddenly became a born again Christian. When i asked why he basically said he was bored of his same old life and one day he just had some sort of dream that gave him more purpose to his life.

So i believe that without the belief that something exists beyond your present life, there would be mass suicides all over the world, when times get hard.

I personally don't believe but have always left my children to make up their own minds