Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

21 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Still it is up to us, and us to find happiness. Happiness comes trough mistakes you have done and improve for every time you realize and admit your own mistakes, as it also lower the bar for what you think is real love and happiness. Noise dissapears, and you will know what real happiness is. 

I don't quite agree on lowering the bar, although it may work for you.

As for real happiness, it's a really subjective concept, don't you think ???? 

[Tagged]

46 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't quite agree on lowering the bar, although it may work for you.

As for real happiness, it's a really subjective concept, don't you think ???? 

Before experience, we all have expectations, and if you had lower expectations than most teenagers to first engage in the love game, then, I would be surprised. 

 

And this leads us back to free will, where we have been formed by parents, our social status, radio, news, friends, personal preferences to what is social accepted. 

 

Most have to be broken down, learn true pain as false pain, get a couple of knock outs before we realize what it is all about. 

 

But sad is, many continue to do the same mistakes over and ove again, and never see where it went wrong first time. 

 

I would say I have changed quite a bit on my long road to being a better person myself, to find a suitable womean who can live with me, as I can live with her. Not been easy the first years, but still we both working for making it better, and that is the key, both parts have to give and take to make it succeed. There is not a one way train with a black dead end tunnel. 

[mauGR1]

16 hours ago, Tagged said:

Before experience, we all have expectations, and if you had lower expectations than most teenagers to first engage in the love game, then, I would be surprised. 

 

And this leads us back to free will, where we have been formed by parents, our social status, radio, news, friends, personal preferences to what is social accepted. 

 

Most have to be broken down, learn true pain as false pain, get a couple of knock outs before we realize what it is all about. 

 

But sad is, many continue to do the same mistakes over and ove again, and never see where it went wrong first time. 

 

I would say I have changed quite a bit on my long road to being a better person myself, to find a suitable womean who can live with me, as I can live with her. Not been easy the first years, but still we both working for making it better, and that is the key, both parts have to give and take to make it succeed. There is not a one way train with a black dead end tunnel. 

Well, thanks for sharing, but then I guess that  the "lowering the bar" to achieve "real happiness" refers to your relationship, and that's very personal.

Fair enough, but I think this doesn't sound quite right to me, be it a relationship, or just in general. "Lowering the bar" sounds horrific to me, almost an offence.

But yeah, as I said, appreciate the imput, diversity is beautiful.

[Tagged]

13 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, thanks for sharing, but then I guess that  the "lowering the bar" to achieve "real happiness" refers to your relationship, and that's very personal.

Fair enough, but I think this doesn't sound quite right to me, be it a relationship, or just in general. "Lowering the bar" sounds horrific to me, almost an offence.

But yeah, as I said, appreciate the imput, diversity is beautiful.

That was just what I have learned and experienced during my years as bf, and as a friend to many who have lived in long relatioships, and also those who still struggle in their middlife short time relationships or have given up on life. I see relationship as a way to a better life and healthier life.

 

what I see and learn from those who still struggle, is, they have not given up their ego, their needs, and their damands for what they think is essential for a happy and godd life. They expect far more from others than themselves, as well take more than they give. I also have a couple of friends who give more than they get back, and that is as bad as the other way, so it needs a healthy balance, and that balance is to grow a common platform where communications and also be able to see the other part, willing to learn, and listen. There is not so complicated, we do know what it takes, and we know what is wrong and what is good, but still it seems like people get blind, blinded by their own ego, even they have all information needed. On the other hand, some just cultivate misury, and blaim everyone elses for their mistakes, and do not see the loop of mistakes both parts contribute with. Its like a wave hits land, the same energy will bounce back at you. 

 

As most in here who is interested in the big questions in life as belief and spiritualism, you need to breathe and cultivate the positive energies, not the bad ones. 

 

Right here righ now, there is no past, there is no future

 

as I said earliere which I learned by my skydiving instructor learning how to survive and decide if the the canopy above your head would fly and take you down safe, he said some of the most simplest words and very understandavble "if you are not sure, you are sure" The same goes for a healthy relationship.

 

So it is just common sense that we change by time and also does our needs, and it is not just personal, it universial. I cant understand that is so hard to understand and see. If not no doubt people struggle if they can not adopt form relationship to relationship. Live and learn. 

 

 

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, Tagged said:

That was just what I have learned and experienced during my years as bf, and as a friend to many who have lived in long relatioships, and also those who still struggle in their middlife short time relationships or have given up on life. I see relationship as a way to a better life and healthier life.

 

what I see and learn from those who still struggle, is, they have not given up their ego, their needs, and their damands for what they think is essential for a happy and godd life. They expect far more from others than themselves, as well take more than they give. I also have a couple of friends who give more than they get back, and that is as bad as the other way, so it needs a healthy balance, and that balance is to grow a common platform where communications and also be able to see the other part, willing to learn, and listen. There is not so complicated, we do know what it takes, and we know what is wrong and what is good, but still it seems like people get blind, blinded by their own ego, even they have all information needed. On the other hand, some just cultivate misury, and blaim everyone elses for their mistakes, and do not see the loop of mistakes both parts contribute with. Its like a wave hits land, the same energy will bounce back at you. 

 

As most in here who is interested in the big questions in life as belief and spiritualism, you need to breathe and cultivate the positive energies, not the bad ones. 

 

Right here righ now, there is no past, there is no future

 

as I said earliere which I learned by my skydiving instructor learning how to survive and decide if the the canopy above your head would fly and take you down safe, he said some of the most simplest words and very understandavble "if you are not sure, you are sure" The same goes for a healthy relationship.

 

So it is just common sense that we change by time and also does our needs, and it is not just personal, it universial. I cant understand that is so hard to understand and see. If not no doubt people struggle if they can not adopt form relationship to relationship. Live and learn. 

 

 

If you were so convinced of what you say, you won't need so many words. 

Please don't try to pass your good achievements as a universal truth, because human relationships are much more complex than what you are trying to say.

[Tagged]

7 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

If you were so convinced of what you say, you won't need so many words. 

Please don't try to pass your good achievements as a universal truth, because human relationships are much more complex than what you are trying to say.

You must have had a really bad morning sir. Have a good day ????????

 

In two posts you prove everything I said in a good way. No need to continue the discussion, since you will not understand anyway.

 

It is not my intention to provoke. 

[mauGR1]

On 11/28/2020 at 9:31 AM, Tagged said:

You must have had a really bad morning sir. Have a good day ????????

 

In two posts you prove everything I said in a good way. No need to continue the discussion, since you will not understand anyway.

 

It is not my intention to provoke. 

Just when the discussion was getting interesting !

I have to say that your posts made me think, and I was just expressing my complete disagreement with the set of morals you think are some absolute truth.

If you want to take it personally, so be it, but you would be wrong.

My point, in few words, is that forcing yourself in being ( or pretending to be) positive all the time, you are really lowering the bar.

Well, in a bigger picture, lowering the bar is not positive at all.

 But you are right, yesterday morning I needed a bit of intellectual fighting ????

[Tagged]

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Just when the discussion was getting interesting !

I have to say that your posts made me think, and I was just expressing my complete disagreement with the set of morals you think are some absolute truth.

If you want to take it personally, so be it, but you would be wrong.

My point, in few words, is that forcing yourself in being ( or pretending to be) positive all the time, you are really lowering the bar.

Well, in a bigger picture, lowering the bar is not positive at all.

 But you are right, yesterday morning I needed a bit of intellectual fighting ????

Lowering your bar could be you are a 5 out of 10, and you choose a 8 who is much younger than you with ambition of a different life than you want and ecpect. Simple as that, and most do that mistake once or twice in life. 

 

I know, it is so annoying with overly positive people who live and have an positive outlook on life, and their being in the moment right her and right now. 

 

 

 

[mauGR1]

19 hours ago, Tagged said:

Lowering your bar could be you are a 5 out of 10, and you choose a 8 who is much younger than you with ambition of a different life than you want and ecpect. Simple as that, and most do that mistake once or twice in life. 

 

I know, it is so annoying with overly positive people who live and have an positive outlook on life, and their being in the moment right her and right now. 

 

 

 

I have nothing against lowering the bar occasionally.

I do it on daily basis, if it needs to be, according to the situation.

Everyone tries to stay alive, after all.

I'm also not bothered by positive people, everyone is following his path to happiness, to each his own.

Yet, a few posts ago, you were pushing the concept of lowering the bar like a great recipe for enlightenment, and I am not in agreement with that.

In some situation, lowering the bar can be the right thing to do, but, if you really search for the truth, you know very well that you cannot lower the bar indefinitely.

[Tagged]

47 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I have nothing against lowering the bar occasionally.

I do it on daily basis, if it needs to be, according to the situation.

Everyone tries to stay alive, after all.

I'm also not bothered by positive people, everyone is following his path to happiness, to each his own.

Yet, a few posts ago, you were pushing the concept of lowering the bar like a great recipe for enlightenment, and I am not in agreement with that.

In some situation, lowering the bar can be the right thing to do, but, if you really search for the truth, you know very well that you cannot lower the bar indefinitely.

I would not say lower the bar is or should be in conflict with any truth, in fact it should be on pair with the truth ????

 

 

[mauGR1]

On 11/30/2020 at 9:10 AM, Tagged said:

I would not say lower the bar is or should be in conflict with any truth, in fact it should be on pair with the truth ????

 

 

Lol, then I completely agree with you.

Actually I thought that the disagreement was just about the words we use, and how we perceive them, but if one's aim is to search for the truth, I'm confident that the truth will show up.

Btw, I've been raising the bar too much in the last few days, perhaps it's time for me to lower the bar again.

 

[mauGR1]

Well, I just came across a quote from the excellent master Rudolf Steiner :

"If we do not believe within ourselves this deeply rooted feeling, that there is something higher than ourselves, we shall never find the strength to evolve into something higher".

It sounds right to me.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, I just came across a quote from the excellent master Rudolf Steiner :

"If we do not believe within ourselves this deeply rooted feeling, that there is something higher than ourselves, we shall never find the strength to evolve into something higher".

It sounds right to me.

Indeed. If we believe that this is all there is, why would we strive to be the best, why would we reach for the stars?

If this is all there is why bother to live at all? Why put up with all the <deleted>?

[kevvy]

I believe...

I always remember when I was living in Illinois and the Pentecostal church I went to, amazing ..Then went home to Australia and went to Hillsong Church.The church does not make me believe in Christ , it is just a reminder how much I do . But it sad that religions cause so much trouble throughout the world today 

[VincentRJ]

4 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, I just came across a quote from the excellent master Rudolf Steiner :

"If we do not believe within ourselves this deeply rooted feeling, that there is something higher than ourselves, we shall never find the strength to evolve into something higher".

It sounds right to me.

Of course there's always something higher than ourselves. Isn't that obvious? The ceiling in the room where I am currently typing, is higher than me. The clouds outside are even higher. ????

 

However, joke aside, I assume by 'higher' you mean 'more powerful and more intelligent'. If that is correct, would you agree that a billionaire with a powerful position such as a King or Prime Minister, and with an IQ of 180 or more, fits that description of 'more powerful and more intelligent'? ????

 

I think you need to define more clearly what you mean by 'higher'.

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

Of course there's always something higher than ourselves. Isn't that obvious? The ceiling in the room where I am currently typing, is higher than me. The clouds outside are even higher. ????

 

However, joke aside, I assume by 'higher' you mean 'more powerful and more intelligent'. If that is correct, would you agree that a billionaire with a powerful position such as a King or Prime Minister, and with an IQ of 180 or more, fits that description of 'more powerful and more intelligent'? ????

 

I think you need to define more clearly what you mean by 'higher'.

I guess he means a different kind of hierarchy. One where money, status and IQ are not relevant. But you knew that already, didn't you?

"Higher" is a way to describe the levels of organization that transcend and include other units of organization that are subordinate to it. Atoms in a cell, cells in organs, organs in a human, humans in.....

[VincentRJ]

42 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I guess he means a different kind of hierarchy. One where money, status and IQ are not relevant. But you knew that already, didn't you?

"Higher" is a way to describe the levels of organization that transcend and include other units of organization that are subordinate to it. Atoms in a cell, cells in organs, organs in a human, humans in.....

 

Does Covid-19 have a level of organization that transcends other units of organization, such as human cells? Is Covid-19 'higher' than ourselves?

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Of course there's always something higher than ourselves. Isn't that obvious? The ceiling in the room where I am currently typing, is higher than me. The clouds outside are even higher. ????

 

However, joke aside, I assume by 'higher' you mean 'more powerful and more intelligent'. If that is correct, would you agree that a billionaire with a powerful position such as a King or Prime Minister, and with an IQ of 180 or more, fits that description of 'more powerful and more intelligent'? ????

 

I think you need to define more clearly what you mean by 'higher'.

Would you consider being able to create the universe as "intelligent" and "powerful"?

If you do that is your answer.

I think you need to define more clearly what you mean by 'higher'.

Most of us knew what he meant.

 

Plenty of Kings, PMs that are/ were IMO barking, and being rich is more luck than good management IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

 

Does Covid-19 have a level of organization that transcends other units of organization, such as human cells? Is Covid-19 'higher' than ourselves?

Given it can kill us and we don't seem to be able to defend against it IMO makes it "higher" on the scale of organisms than us.

[mauGR1]

16 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Of course there's always something higher than ourselves. Isn't that obvious? The ceiling in the room where I am currently typing, is higher than me. The clouds outside are even higher. ????

 

However, joke aside, I assume by 'higher' you mean 'more powerful and more intelligent'. If that is correct, would you agree that a billionaire with a powerful position such as a King or Prime Minister, and with an IQ of 180 or more, fits that description of 'more powerful and more intelligent'? ????

 

I think you need to define more clearly what you mean by 'higher'.

Well, your example of the billionaire, more intelligent, is obviously related just to the physical world.

Jesus came in this world as an adopted child of a poor man.

There is something called the law of karma, which is not easy to understand by the average humans.

There can be indeed on this planet humans which are connected with higher realms of consciousness, and I'm almost sure that I have met a few.

But still, we are not able to prove the higher realms by physical means, so a leap of faith is needed to believe.

As we have said many times, it's a safe bet though, to believe in the existence of higher beings, as much as we are able to see lower beings, and sometimes higher beings with our physical eyes.

[VincentRJ]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Would you consider being able to create the universe as "intelligent" and "powerful"?

 

No. I think the universe, and possibly many universes, have always existed. I don't believe that 'nothing' can exist, by definition. Nothing is nothing. The scientific 'hypothesis', that the universe we see started from an explosion from a 'singularity', known as the Big Bang, is not a creation from 'nothing'. The singularity had infinite density. It was like a very black, 'Black Hole', containing all of the matter and energy of the entire universe. But that's just  the best current Hypothesis. It could be wrong.

 

The idea of a Creator God, who is All Powerful and very Intelligent, and who created the entire universe and all life (from nothing?), is absolutely silly. ????
 

[Tagged]

48 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

No. I think the universe, and possibly many universes, have always existed. I don't believe that 'nothing' can exist, by definition. Nothing is nothing. The scientific 'hypothesis', that the universe we see started from an explosion from a 'singularity', known as the Big Bang, is not a creation from 'nothing'. The singularity had infinite density. It was like a very black, 'Black Hole', containing all of the matter and energy of the entire universe. But that's just  the best current Hypothesis. It could be wrong.

 

The idea of a Creator God, who is All Powerful and very Intelligent, and who created the entire universe and all life (from nothing?), is absolutely silly. ????
 

What amazes me most, is people who claim they know the answer and the truth. 

 

 

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

 

No. I think the universe, and possibly many universes, have always existed. I don't believe that 'nothing' can exist, by definition. Nothing is nothing. The scientific 'hypothesis', that the universe we see started from an explosion from a 'singularity', known as the Big Bang, is not a creation from 'nothing'. The singularity had infinite density. It was like a very black, 'Black Hole', containing all of the matter and energy of the entire universe. But that's just  the best current Hypothesis. It could be wrong.

 

The idea of a Creator God, who is All Powerful and very Intelligent, and who created the entire universe and all life (from nothing?), is absolutely silly. ????
 

The universe may or may not have started with a "singularity ". At this point in time it's more a matter of belief rather than fact.

 

What the notion of a Creator God or sentient universe implies, is that there is a purpose behind it all and everything happens for a reason. 

 

I find it silly to believe that this belief should be any sillier than the belief in a Big Bang. Quite the contrary actually. 

Does this make sense?  ????????

[VincentRJ]

9 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

The universe may or may not have started with a "singularity ". At this point in time it's more a matter of belief rather than fact.

 

I find it silly to believe that this belief should be any sillier than the belief in a Big Bang. Quite the contrary actually. 

Does this make sense?  ????????

 

I don't have a 'belief' that the current universe started form an infinitely dense 'singularity'. I consider it a 'hypothesis' which best fits our current understanding of the 'Laws of Physics'. There have been many cases of scientific theories, in the history of science, which have later been proved to be false as our understanding progresses. The hypothesis of the Big Bang might turn out to be another example of a misunderstanding or a misinterpretation of the data.

 

As I understand, Isaac Newton thought the universe was static, despite such a situation contravening his own 'laws of gravity'. If every star and galaxy in the universe is exerting a force of gravitational attraction, then it follows that the universe must be in a state of collapse, yet it appeared to be static. Newton's explanation was that 'God' prevented the universe from collapsing on itself.

 

Einstein also initially assumed the universe was static, which was one of his biggest blunders. He later modified his 'theory of relativity' after Edwin Hubble showed evidence that the universe is expanding. It was initially thought that the expansion was gradually slowing down, and would eventually come to a halt, and the universe would then begin contracting. However, as telescope technology improved, allowing us to see very distant galaxies, the new data implied that the expansion is accelerating.

 

The best explanation for such an accelerating expansion appears to be the hypothesis that most of the matter and energy in the universe has a 'repulsive' gravitational effect, rather than the 'attractive' effect of the normal Baryonic matter which we can all see and detect. The matter and energy which has this 'repulsive' gravitational effect is, so far, invisible and undetectable, which is why it is called 'Dark'. It's existence is a 'Hypothesis', not a belief.

 

"What the notion of a Creator God or sentient universe implies, is that there is a purpose behind it all and everything happens for a reason." 

 

Must be very comforting for those individuals who lack a sense of purpose in life. However, I'm reluctant to make fun of this because I do see many parts of the world as being in a 'state of mess' and I can appreciate that many people might be wondering 'what is the point of all this?' 

 

If belief in a 'Creator God' or 'Sentient Universe' makes people happier and better behaved with better motivations and purpose which benefit us all, then that's excellent. Unfortunately, there can also be negative effects of unfounded beliefs.

[Tagged]

50 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

 

Must be very comforting for those individuals who lack a sense of purpose in life. However, I'm reluctant to make fun of this because I do see many parts of the world as being in a 'state of mess' and I can appreciate that many people might be wondering 'what is the point of all this?' 

 

If belief in a 'Creator God' or 'Sentient Universe' makes people happier and better behaved with better motivations and purpose which benefit us all, then that's excellent. Unfortunately, there can also be negative effects of unfounded beliefs.

Well purpose of what? Thats the question, right?

 

In our body we hostiong billions of microbes that have an function and work with each other and with us. Could we be living in something thats alive, and we have an function as well. It come down to we are all one and one is everything. 

 

Doubt humans will ever know. What I am sure of, is we humans, is a dissaster to the planet and have no what so ever function in a positive way, therefor can not believe we have an god who gave is a position to be important enough at all. 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

 

No. I think the universe, and possibly many universes, have always existed. I don't believe that 'nothing' can exist, by definition. Nothing is nothing. The scientific 'hypothesis', that the universe we see started from an explosion from a 'singularity', known as the Big Bang, is not a creation from 'nothing'. The singularity had infinite density. It was like a very black, 'Black Hole', containing all of the matter and energy of the entire universe. But that's just  the best current Hypothesis. It could be wrong.

 

The idea of a Creator God, who is All Powerful and very Intelligent, and who created the entire universe and all life (from nothing?), is absolutely silly. ????
 

Soooooo, explain where all the matter in the universe originates from. I have no problem believing that this universe is just the latest in a very long line of universes, and after it dies another will be born, but go back far enough and it had to originate at some point.

 

The idea of a Creator God, who is All Powerful and very Intelligent, and who created the entire universe and all life is no more silly than believing the first universe just happened, or that it has been around forever.

 

We who believe are not trying to convert you guys, so why do you keep trying to prove God does not exist? That's just your opinion, as God is ours. Your opinion is no more valid than ours, except one can't be filled with wonder over nothing, and I am filled with wonder over the glory of creation, which comes from God.

 

You can't prove a negative, while I see the glory of the creator all around me.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Tagged said:

Well purpose of what? Thats the question, right?

 

In our body we hostiong billions of microbes that have an function and work with each other and with us. Could we be living in something thats alive, and we have an function as well. It come down to we are all one and one is everything. 

 

Doubt humans will ever know. What I am sure of, is we humans, is a dissaster to the planet and have no what so ever function in a positive way, therefor can not believe we have an god who gave is a position to be important enough at all. 

LOL. Humans are not, IMO, important to the planet. If Gaia wants to we'll be terminated with prejudice like the dinosaurs.

Looking at the big picture, nothing on the planet vanishes- it just gets changed from one form to another, so when humanity pollutes itself to extinction, the plants take over and even if it takes a few billion years, the planet will be ready for the next dominant life form to appear. Plenty of time before the sun expands and destroys the planets as the solar system dies when the sun runs out of fuel.

[Tagged]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Humans are not, IMO, important to the planet. If Gaia wants to we'll be terminated with prejudice like the dinosaurs.

Looking at the big picture, nothing on the planet vanishes- it just gets changed from one form to another, so when humanity pollutes itself to extinction, the plants take over and even if it takes a few billion years, the planet will be ready for the next dominant life form to appear. Plenty of time before the sun expands and destroys the planets as the solar system dies when the sun runs out of fuel.

Many species is destinct, and many of them was important for time being, and  finely because of they going destinct + clima gave room for us homo sapiens, who have existed more or less 300 000 years. Dinosaurs existed for 165 millions years, so ? 

 

When modern human dies out, it will give rooms for other species who specialize in the time being when it comes to resourches, clima etc. 

 

Humans the way we have exploited the earth, have no what so ever any positive effect on this planet period. That will say after we passed one billion humans on this planet. 10 000 years ago we co existed with the nature, and from there to we reached one billion it took 9800 years. The last  200 years, we have had an enormous impact on the planet in a very negativ way. 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Tagged

[VincentRJ]

4 hours ago, Tagged said:

Well purpose of what? Thats the question, right?

 

In our body we hostiong billions of microbes that have an function and work with each other and with us. Could we be living in something thats alive, and we have an function as well. It come down to we are all one and one is everything. 

 

Doubt humans will ever know. What I am sure of, is we humans, is a dissaster to the planet and have no what so ever function in a positive way, therefor can not believe we have an god who gave is a position to be important enough at all. 

 

Good point! It's amazing to think that we are hosts to trillions of bacteria, especially in the gut, which are essential for our continuing life and health. It's also amazing that this 'scientifically proven' concept fits with one of the fundamental teachings of Gautama Buddha who lived 2,500 years ago; that everything arises in dependence upon multiple causes and conditions, sometime described as 'interdependent co-arising', and that nothing exists as a singular, independent entity.

 

If we were to remove all Carbon Dioxide from the atmosphere, we'd become extinct, because Carbon Dioxide is essential for all plant growth, and plants are essential for all 'animal' life.

 

However, the Buddha didn't feel the need to pretend that he understood the nature of a Creator God. He had the sense to understand that such an entity, if it existed, would be unknowable, beyond the realm of human understanding.

[luckyluke]

25 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and I am filled with wonder over the glory of creation, which comes from God.

I am amazed over the wonder of everything, which as per today, can't be explained rationally ( what is generally considered as rational actually ).

That it comes from God, is one of the many probabilities, I consider as plausible.