Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

6 hours ago, notmyself said:

I think what gets me most is the shear number of people who consider their argument to be somehow reasonable and go to unimaginable lengths in an effort to show it as potentially being so. This knotting of the mind results in some interesting views, psychologically,  where a method is used to prove that the very same method should not be used, 

Can we say that every argument is reasonable until a certain extent ?

[Sunmaster]

10 hours ago, notmyself said:

I think what gets me most is the shear number of people who consider their argument to be somehow reasonable and go to unimaginable lengths in an effort to show it as potentially being so. This knotting of the mind results in some interesting views, psychologically,  where a method is used to prove that the very same method should not be used, 

I honestly don't know which side of the debate you're referring here. Or is it across both side?
What method are you talking about?

[notmyself]

7 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Can we say that every argument is reasonable until a certain extent ?

 

Not an absolute but happy to agree that most any argument put forward is worthy of consideration as to whether it stands up to scrutiny. Scrutiny would be such things as if the proposition is falsifiable because if it isn't then it's just an assertion and if the proposition is not logically incoherent, such as what is the colour of the number 7.

 

In the past such ability to discern could be difficult due to factors like lack of education, opportunity or rather lack of opportunity due to no library etc. There is no question that hurdles such as these were a valid excuse for lack of knowledge on something but these days it cannot be used since every **** and their mother has a smartphone and therefor access to most the collective knowledge of mankind at their fingertips. So when I say 'I think what gets me most is the shear number of people who consider their argument to be somehow reasonable' it comes down to wanton ignorance.

 

 

[nausea]

Do I believe in God rationally, of course not: do I pray in desperate situations - yes. Personally, I find the whole Xnian ethos a good metaphor for life in general, far more than the Buddhist idea of renunciation; As they say, we all have our cross to bear and we all end up crucified in one way or another.

[mauGR1]

11 hours ago, nausea said:

Do I believe in God rationally, of course not: do I pray in desperate situations - yes. Personally, I find the whole Xnian ethos a good metaphor for life in general, far more than the Buddhist idea of renunciation; As they say, we all have our cross to bear and we all end up crucified in one way or another.

I find many similarities between Jesus and Buddha , the former perhaps more extroverted than the latter, as the Thais would say, same but different.

[mauGR1]

On 5/10/2019 at 3:18 PM, soalbundy said:

 

I can't remember who it was but I was reading about a distinguished man who was dying, going in and out of consciousness with his wife by his side, at his last 'coming back' he said to his wife, without any other explanation, "this is all a fraud" and died.

It would be interesting to know what he was referring to as a fraud.

My guess would be 'life as a human' , but then, "fraud' seems a bit harsh, i would rather call it an illusion.

[Odysseus123]

21 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

Not an absolute but happy to agree that most any argument put forward is worthy of consideration as to whether it stands up to scrutiny. Scrutiny would be such things as if the proposition is falsifiable because if it isn't then it's just an assertion and if the proposition is not logically incoherent, such as what is the colour of the number 7.

 

In the past such ability to discern could be difficult due to factors like lack of education, opportunity or rather lack of opportunity due to no library etc. There is no question that hurdles such as these were a valid excuse for lack of knowledge on something but these days it cannot be used since every **** and their mother has a smartphone and therefor access to most the collective knowledge of mankind at their fingertips. So when I say 'I think what gets me most is the shear number of people who consider their argument to be somehow reasonable' it comes down to wanton ignorance.

 

 

There is nothing to indicate that the Western world has a lien on rationality.

 

We all know that every generation-despite appearances-thinks that it is smarter than the preceding ones.

 

As for access to Google (the Borg brain) Messers Dunning and Kruger would argue very differently as to its effects.As would many educators..hence the phrase "dumbing down".

 

I prefer  an intelligent,open ended conversation rather than dogmatic assertions (of one sort or the other) and closed conversations.

 

Poor old Hegel would be turning in his grave.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Odysseus123

[Skeptic7]

4 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

There is nothing to indicate that the Western world has a lien on rationality.

 

We all know that every generation-despite appearances-thinks that it is smarter than the preceding ones.

 

As for access to Google (the Borg brain) Messers Dunning and Kruger would argue very differently as to its effects.As would many educators..hence the phrase "dumbing down".

 

I prefer  an intelligent,open ended conversation rather than dogmatic assertions (of one sort or the other) and closed conversations.

 

Poor old Hegel would be turning in his grave.

Google and the Internet only dumbs down those whom are already "dumb" and stupid, gullible and easily fooled by bogus and unreliable sources, trolls and conspiracy theorists. Or those simply not open to evidence and knowledge. 

 

On the flip side...nothing has dumbed down modern society more than religions and superstitious god beliefs. It hinders progress by pushing back against (and even denying) science, medical advances (and proven treatments and cures) and technology. It hides facts and evidence from the masses and it insidiously begins the indoctrination of idiocy with the children. The Abrahamic religions also psychologically abuse children (and adults) with threats of eternal torture ON FIRE for simply not buying into their tripe.  

 

The "dumbing down" of people today is caused by ignorant, static, superstitious beliefs and dogmas...NOT "Google" or The InterWeb. 

[Sunmaster]

You keep on throwing out the child along with the dirty water. 
I don't blame you though, it's not easy to see the difference.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You keep on throwing out the child along with the dirty water. 
I don't blame you though, it's not easy to see the difference.

I cannot be bothered to explain to him that everything is not black or white.

[OneEyedPie]

When I was about 10/11 years old my younger brother (2 years younger) and I were walking through town with our aunty and, as always, my brother was lagging behind.  On this occasion he decided to stop to look in a shop window.  

 

I eventually clocked that he wasn't close by and turned around to see him staring intently at the contents of said shop window.  

 

My relationship with my brother was such that if I'd shouted 'hurry up' then he'd have just stood there longer just to spite me, ignore me, or whatever.  Any other time I would have definitely shouted to him to hurry up.  In a flash from the ether, and even at such a young age, I instinctively knew not to say a word on this occasion as this would have caused him to stand there for longer than if I hadn't said anything.  

 

I saved his life by not saying a word as he began to walk away from the scene immediately and two seconds later a very sizable chunk of masonry fell from above and landed right where he was standing.  It would have killed him instantly.  

 

My point is is that there's some serious shit going down in the ether and it's all linked to whatever constitutes life, the universe, nature and everything else.  

[Odysseus123]

55 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I cannot be bothered to explain to him that everything is not black or white.

Ha..ha..ha..that put the cat amongst the pigeons.

I think that I might return to:A.N Wilson's :The Death of God' or 'Darwin'

 

No-nothing has dumbed down Western society more than the belief that if you have picked up a fewmet of knowledge on the internet than you have become an instant expert on the subject.

 

Religion has very little to do with it.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Odysseus123

[Jack Harrow]

I believe in God, because there must be some kind of power that manages all in this chaotic world

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Are you the one claiming that religion will disappear in 20 years?

I said something similar, not sure if on this thread or another.

.. But, honestly, i would rephrase it.. More something like "Religion as we know it will disappear in 20 (or 30) years".

Religion, like many other things, has a positive and a negative side, i think there would be no civilisation as we know it without religion, but people have evolved in the last 500 years or so, and most take pride in thinking with their own heads.

[Odysseus123]

26 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I said something similar, not sure if on this thread or another.

.. But, honestly, i would rephrase it.. More something like "Religion as we know it will disappear in 20 (or 30) years".

Religion, like many other things, has a positive and a negative side, i think there would be no civilisation as we know it without religion, but people have evolved in the last 500 years or so, and most take pride in thinking with their own heads.

Maugri-I actually deleted that from my post as I thought it was quite unfair..and not indicative of your knowledge.

There is nothing to indicate that 'religion' will disappear in our lifetime.

 

If you are indicating that it might be in decline in the Western countries (which I agree with)than it certainly may appear so.

But-having traveled extensively throughout Russia, Asia and India I decline to believe that a 'Western' point of view is the be all and end all of human experience.

 

In actual fact,I have almost reached the point of deciding that Western thought is neither the Alpha or the Omega on any situation other than logical,left brained processes-bereft of art,imagination or,indeed,craft.

 

Nevertheless the idea that religion will suddenly disappear throughout the world (its a big round sphere,you know) in one or two generations is quite bizarre.Is it disappearing in Thailand?

Edited May 13, 2019 by Odysseus123

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Maugri-I actually deleted that from my post as I thought it was quite unfair..and not indicative of your knowledge.

There is nothing to indicate that 'religion' will disappear in our lifetime.

 

If you are indicating that it might be in decline in the Western countries (which I agree with)than it certainly may appear so.

But-having traveled extensively throughout Russia, Asia and India I decline to believe that a 'Western' point of view is the be all and all of human experience.

 

In actual fact,I have almost reached the point of deciding that Western thought is neither the Alpha or the Omega on any situation other than logical,left brained processes-bereft of art,imagination or,indeed,craft.

Never mind Ody, everything is debatable, at least with you :)))

I'm not saying that " the Western point of view" is the best, but it's undeniable that "Western culture" is having a strong influence on the rest of the world, so whatever happens first in US, Europe etc.., is going to happen in the rest of the world.

That of course can be seen as positive,or negative, or both.

[Odysseus123]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Never mind Ody, everything is debatable, at least with you :)))

I'm not saying that " the Western point of view" is the best, but it's undeniable that "Western culture" is having a strong influence on the rest of the world, so whatever happens first in US, Europe etc.., is going to happen in the rest of the world.

That of course can be seen as positive,or negative, or both.

Maugri..

Thank you for accepting my apology!

Nevertheless,I think that a 'Eurocentric' view of the world is quite distorted..and is in actual fact,a total conceit.One might even term it a disastrous 'folly' and has been so since the sudden death of the British empire..

 

May I ask you to spend a few minutes of your time watching this video?Straight,intelligible and academic..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnqS7G3LmMo&t=102s

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Maugri..

Thank you for accepting my apology!

Nevertheless,I think that a 'Eurocentric' view of the world is quite distorted..and is in actual fact,a total conceit.One might even term it a disastrous 'folly' and has been so since the sudden death of the British empire..

 

May I ask you to spend a few minutes of your time watching this video?Straight,intelligible and academic..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnqS7G3LmMo&t=102s

Well, the vdo is 1 hour long, but i watched the title of the book, for now.

Obviously we can see the symptoms of the decline of the white-man dominance in the strictly physical realm, but our individualistic frame of mind is still unmatched.

Exaggerated individualism can be a weakness for a country, but for sure is a good sign of spiritual development.

According to the Theosophists, the "next dominant race" will be born and develop in the 'melting pots' of the Americas, similarly as it happened in the Mediterranean area a few thousands of years ago.

[Enki]

Unlikely, lets talk about it again when we see who is colonizing Mars and Moon first and second ... strictly speaking you could Bezos and Musk americans ... but the Chinese are just behind them.

[Nanglon]

On 5/12/2019 at 9:38 AM, Odysseus123 said:

 

 

At least enjoy your glass of wine and cheese with good ol' Linkin !?

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=the+radiance+linkin&&view=detail&mid=5DED085C145ED5D6F5705DED085C145ED5D6F570&&FORM=VRDGAR

Edited May 13, 2019 by Nanglon

[marcusarelus]

8 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

I find many similarities between Jesus and Buddha , the former perhaps more extroverted than the latter, as the Thais would say, same but different.

The Buddha rejected the existence of God, and said that that was irrelevant to the notion of suffering.

The religion of Christianity is different from Buddhism in every way.

 

https://reasonsforjesus.com/jesus-vs-buddha-9-major-differences/

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The Buddha rejected the existence of God, and said that that was irrelevant to the notion of suffering.

The religion of Christianity is different from Buddhism in every way.

 

https://reasonsforjesus.com/jesus-vs-buddha-9-major-differences/

You are free to look for the differences, nothing wrong with that, i prefer to look for the similarities.

[sweatalot]

Let's start with my definition of religion
religion is a group of persons or a body of beliefs that is making their followers believe or pretend to believe on a couple of axioms. First axiom is that there is a God, his name is so-and-so and he wants you to do this and that otherwise you will be punished .  These axioms are given by  people with a high position in that religious body or people who are declared holy. Or they have been that way all the time and  still have to be followed.

 

And then there are individuals who don't believe that religious stuff because they cannot experience it.

They tried to find or they found their truth by experience and thus they know.
They don't need anybody or any law to tell them what God is and what they have to do all to believe. They don't need a mediator.

They know who they are and so they know God. They are far from believing that there is some higher being or God outside of them.

They know there's no higher being outside of them that wants its rules to be followed and will punish if they don't.

This way they are close to a life that is happy and peaceful without illusions. 
 

[Odysseus123]

54 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, the vdo is 1 hour long, but i watched the title of the book, for now.

Obviously we can see the symptoms of the decline of the white-man dominance in the strictly physical realm, but our individualistic frame of mind is still unmatched.

Exaggerated individualism can be a weakness for a country, but for sure is a good sign of spiritual development.

According to the Theosophists, the "next dominant race" will be born and develop in the 'melting pots' of the Americas, similarly as it happened in the Mediterranean area a few thousands of years ago.

Unfortunately-the poor old Theosophists-apart from being somewhat bereft of any form of historical knowledge-were creatures of their times...

 

Unmatched..according to whom?

 

500 years of dominance doth not an aeon make.

 

Just how 'individualistic' were Nazi Germany.Fascist Italy,Stalin's Russia and Falangist Spain?

 

'tis a great conceit.

[Skeptic7]

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The Buddha rejected the existence of God, and said that that was irrelevant to the notion of suffering.

The religion of Christianity is different from Buddhism in every way.

 

https://reasonsforjesus.com/jesus-vs-buddha-9-major-differences/

This ultra-pro Christian article raises some good points on differences...but it is so subjective, Christian-biased and full of (crap), preexisting beliefs, ridiculous and unconfirmed assumptions about JC and confirmation bias that makes for a really tough read. Especially since all the reasons it favors the supposed JC over the supposed Buddha, would be all the reasons objective readers should/would have the totally opposite reaction. IMO anyway. 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Unfortunately-the poor old Theosophists-apart from being somewhat bereft of any form of historical knowledge-were creatures of their times...

 

Unmatched..according to whom?

 

500 years of dominance doth not an aeon make.

 

Just how 'individualistic' were Nazi Germany.Fascist Italy,Stalin's Russia and Falangist Spain?

 

'tis a great conceit.

1) i completely disagree.

2) This thread is itself a proof of how individualistic we have become

3) who invented the letters and writing systems ? That's some 10.000 years ago

4) the 2nd world war was the ultimate lesson, at least for Europeans, about the stupidity of blind patriotism.

You put lots of wood on the fire, many questions cannot be answered properly in this little space :))

[Odysseus123]

4 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

This ultra-pro Christian article raises some good points on differences...but it is so subjective, Christian-biased and full of (crap), preexisting beliefs, ridiculous and unconfirmed assumptions about JC and confirmation bias that makes for a really tough read. Especially since all the reasons it favors the supposed JC over the supposed Buddha, would be all the reasons objective readers should/would have the totally opposite reaction. IMO anyway. 

Anyone living in Thailand knows that 'Buddhism' as practiced here is a mixture of Animism,Hinduism and Buddhism and is,most definitely,a religion-as it is in Northern India,Tibet and SE Asia.

 

A sad case where using one's eyes  and experience crumbles in the face of Wiki..

 

The usual.

[Odysseus123]

8 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

1) i completely disagree.

2) This thread is itself a proof of how individualistic we have become

3) who invented the letters and writing systems ? That's some 10.000 years ago

4) the 2nd world war was the ultimate lesson, at least for Europeans, about the stupidity of blind patriotism.

You put lots of wood on the fire, many questions cannot be answered properly in this little space :))

Umm..the Chinese?

The Indians?

The Mesopotamians?

The Hebrews?

The Phoenicians

The Greeks

The Romans

The Mayans?

The Aztecs?

 

None of them were 10,000 years ago.

 

What taught the Europeans were defeat and conquest by the Russians on one side and the English speaking peoples on the other..

 

Your love of freedom is less than a 100 years old.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Odysseus123

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Anyone living in Thailand knows that 'Buddhism' as practiced here is a mixture of Animism,Hinduism and Buddhism and is,most definitely,a religion-as it is in Northern India,Tibet and SE Asia.

 

A sad case where using one's eyes  and experience crumbles in the face of Wiki..

 

The usual.

Agree, just saying "the Christians" or "the Buddhists" is a mistake.

As the Tibetans say " a thousand monks, a thousand religions.

 

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Umm..the Chinese?

The Indians?

The Mesopotamians?

The Hebrews?

The Phoenicians

The Greeks

The Romans

The Mayans?

The Aztecs?

 

None of them were 10,000 years ago.

 

What taught the Europeans were defeat and conquest by the Russians on one side and the English speaking peoples on the other..

If you think that the Theosophists are "bereft of any historical knowledge", it's useless for me to suggest you some good reading.

As for your 2nd point, yes, total defeat is the best of teachers.