Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Where did I say i was afraid? 

as to how my life is compromised by religion, why don;t you ask a gay person. 

You said you wouldn't seek God because you fear being killed by a suicide bomber. Your words, not mine.

 

I know plenty of gays. Some of them are even religious. They don't seem to be oppressed or persecuted at all. 

[sirineou]

8 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You said you wouldn't seek God because you fear being killed by a suicide bomber. Your words, not mine.

where did I say that?

9 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I know plenty of gays. Some of them are even religious. They don't seem to be oppressed or persecuted at all.

You are kidding , Right? 

[oldhippy]

5 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You said you wouldn't seek God because you fear being killed by a suicide bomber. Your words, not mine.

 

I know plenty of gays. Some of them are even religious. They don't seem to be oppressed or persecuted at all. 

QUOTE: I know plenty of gays. Some of them are even religious. They don't seem to be oppressed or persecuted at all. 

 

Ah, they invented their own god or adapted an already existing god to their hinking.

Good on them!

 

I have no problem with gods, since they do not exist.

I have no problem with religious people, if they keep their religion to themselves.

 

[Sunmaster]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

where did I say that?

You are kidding , Right? 

Perhaps I misunderstood that.

 

I'm not kidding, ...why?

What does being gay have to do with establishing a personal relationship with God?

[Sunmaster]

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Ah, they invented their own god or adapted an already existing god to their hinking.

Good on them!

You talk about God as if it were a car you buy and then customize. ????

 

But in the end, isn't that what everyone does? Take some of this, add some of that, mix a bit of your own and voila...your very own belief system. Doesn't matter if it includes God or not. Your belief system is made up of bits and pieces just like everyone else, and as such it is incomplete just like everyone else's BS.

 

Forgive me for asking...if you want people to keep their nasty religious/spiritual ideas for themselves....what are you doing on a God thread??

 

[oldhippy]

5 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Perhaps I misunderstood that.

 

I'm not kidding, ...why?

 

QUOTE: What does being gay have to do with establishing a personal relationship with God?

 

The existing gods and their representatives on earth do not like gays.

Have you perhaps created your own alternative god? - that would make you a super god!

 

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

You talk about God as if it were a car you buy and then customize. ????

 

But in the end, isn't that what everyone does? Take some of this, add some of that, mix a bit of your own and voila...your very own belief system. Doesn't matter if it includes God or not. Your belief system is made up of bits and pieces just like everyone else, and as such it is incomplete just like everyone else's BS.

 

Forgive me for asking...if you want people to keep their nasty religious/spiritual ideas for themselves....what are you doing on a God thread??

 

QUOTE: what are you doing on a God thread??

 

1/ is this a god thread?

2/ I think you know the answer.

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE: What does being gay have to do with establishing a personal relationship with God?

 

The existing gods and their representatives on earth do not like gays.

Have you perhaps created your own alternative god? - that would make you a super god!

 

So much confusion in one post...

 

God loves everyone the same...saints and sinners. Some religious bigots who pretend to speak in God's name started classifying who deserves God's love and who doesn't.  This is of course utter nonsense and goes completely against what the real message is. 

 

Alternative God? Alternative to what??

A God that can be created is not GOD. 

 

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE: what are you doing on a God thread??

 

1/ is this a god thread?

2/ I think you know the answer.

1. It is a thread about God and faith. I'm surprised you haven't realized that yet after so many pages. Did you think it was about cars?

 

2. No, I don't. Masochism? 

[oldhippy]

13 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

So much confusion in one post...

 

God loves everyone the same...saints and sinners. Some religious bigots who pretend to speak in God's name started classifying who deserves God's love and who doesn't.  This is of course utter nonsense and goes completely against what the real message is. 

 

Alternative God? Alternative to what??

A God that can be created is not GOD. 

 

So much confusion in one post...

[sirineou]

24 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

What does being gay have to do with establishing a personal relationship with God?

Where did i also say that gays could not gave a personal relationship with god?

I said that religious politics compromise lifes, and as a father of a Beautiful, kind, well educated, creative, LGBT daughter living in North Carolina , trust me, bible thumpers are and have been compromising her life for years.and by extension mine. 

 And it does not stop there, it works it's way into reproductive rights, separation of state church and state, etc

My tax goes toward printing money that say " In god we trust" in case you have not noticed. Dont you find it strange that no openly Atheist politician has been elected to high political office. do you think it is because god does not like Atheist politicians, Atheist do not engage in politics, or could it be that religion is compromising their lives? 

[Sunmaster]

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

So much confusion in one post...

Yeah? Which part confuses you?

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Where did i also say that gays could not gave a personal relationship with god?

I said that religious politics compromise lifes, and as a father of a Beautiful, kind, well educated, creative, LGBT daughter living in North Carolina , trust me, bible thumpers are and have been compromising her life for years.and by extension mine. 

 And it does not stop there, it works it's way into reproductive rights, separation of state church and state, etc

My tax goes toward printing money that say " In god we trust" in case you have not noticed. Dont you find it strange that no openly Atheist politician has been elected to high political office. do you think it is because god does not like Atheist politicians, Atheist do not engage in politics, or could it be that religion is compromising their lives? 

Yes, I agree with you there and I find it disgusting also.

 

But what has that got to do with God? It has to do with people and their narrow mindsets. Is that enough to put you off from seeking that direct relationship? 

[oldhippy]

Alternative God? Alternative to what??

A God that can be created is not GOD. 

24 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

1. It is a thread about God and faith. I'm surprised you haven't realized that yet after so many pages. Did you think it was about cars?

 

2. No, I don't. Masochism? 

1. It is a thread about God and faith. I'm surprised you haven't realized that yet after so many pages. Did you think it was about cars?

I thought it was a thread about posters and the gods they believe in.

 

2. No, I don't. Masochism? 

I like Monty Python and similar nonsense. Very entertaining!

 

 

PS. You asked:

Alternative God? Alternative to what??

A God that can be created is not GOD.

Then who created the particular god that you believe in?

Edited January 1, 2021 by oldhippy
,

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Alternative God? Alternative to what??

A God that can be created is not GOD. 

1. It is a thread about God and faith. I'm surprised you haven't realized that yet after so many pages. Did you think it was about cars?

I thought it was a thread about posters and the gods the believe in.

 

2. No, I don't. Masochism? 

I like Monty Python and similar nonsense. Very entertaining!

 

 

PS. You asked:

Alternative God? Alternative to what??

A God that can be created is not GOD.

Then who created the particular god that you believe in?

There are atheists I gladly debate with. Some of them have brilliant minds and I feel I can learn a lot from them.

With others however, I feel I'm just wasting my time...

Time to sleep.

[Elad]

A hint of evidence against 'Fine - Tuning' of the universe.

 

Here’s the thinking. The cosmological constant is a number that determines the energy density of the vacuum. It acts like a kind of pressure that, depending on its value, acts against gravity to push the universe apart or acts with gravity to pull the universe together towards a final Big Crunch.

Until recently, cosmologists had assumed that the constant was zero, a neat solution. But the recent evidence that the universe is not just expanding but accelerating away from us, suggests that the constant is positive.

But although positive, the cosmological constant is tiny, some 122 orders of magnitude smaller than Planck’s constant, which itself is a small number.

So Page and others have examined the effects of changing this constant. It’s straightforward to show that if the the constant were any larger, matter would not form into galaxies and stars meaning that life could not form, at least not in the form we know it,.

So what value of the cosmological constant best encourages galaxy and star formation, and therefore the evolution of life? Page says that a slightly negative value of the constant would maximise this process. And since life is some small fraction of the amount of matter in galaxies, then this is the value that an omnipotent being would choose.

In fact, he says that any positive value of the constant would tend to decrease the fraction of matter that forms into galaxies, reducing the amount available for life.

Therefore the measured value of the cosmological constant, which is positive, is evidence against the idea that the constants have been fine-tuned for life.

 

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1101.2444.pdf

[sirineou]

18 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Yes, I agree with you there and I find it disgusting also.

 

But what has that got to do with God? It has to do with people and their narrow mindsets. Is that enough to put you off from seeking that direct relationship? 

It has little to do with god since he does not exist, as far as I know or has anyone proven.How can I be against something that does not exist? 

It has to do with religion .

I have nothing against your beliefs . you sound to me like a thoughtful, empathetic person, more power to you,  I wish there were more like you.but unfortunately there those who  endeavoured to impose their beliefs to others. An then there are the politicians that exploit those beliefs and those who allow it. . They wave the "Yahweh or the highway"  attitude. 

I am a live and let live kind of guy, If it works for you , I am all for it, but I draw the line when one person's  beliefs are imposed on me and mine. The same way that you would feel if we tried to impose our disbelief on you. 

[mauGR1]

12 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Seems a very dangerous way to proceed in life, thinking that everything is an illusion. Walking around not knowing, nor understanding, what is real and what is not. Living in a self-imposed stupor...endangering not only yourself, but everyone and everything around you. 

 

Consciousness is not "god" just because you or "some people" call it that.

 

Not aware of any evidence of any self-aware "consciousness", "entity" or "mind" which is absent a brain. Are you?

Hello master stalker, when you'll stop marking almost everyone of my posts with that stupid emoji, I might consider giving you an answer to your question. 

At the moment I can suggest you to get a life.

Happy new year ????

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

Hello master stalker, when you'll stop marking almost everyone of my posts with that stupid emoji, I might consider giving you an answer to your question. 

At the moment I can suggest you to get a life.

Happy new year ????

Confusing posts get confused reactions. Nothing unfair or confusing 'bout dat!

 

FYI...I have a life and the first rule is not to take it too seriously. Perhaps you should consider yoga and/or meditation or other relaxation techniques to lighten up a bit. ????????

Edited January 2, 2021 by Skeptic7

[Sunmaster]

8 hours ago, sirineou said:

It has little to do with god since he does not exist, as far as I know or has anyone proven.How can I be against something that does not exist? 

It has to do with religion .

I have nothing against your beliefs . you sound to me like a thoughtful, empathetic person, more power to you,  I wish there were more like you.but unfortunately there those who  endeavoured to impose their beliefs to others. An then there are the politicians that exploit those beliefs and those who allow it. . They wave the "Yahweh or the highway"  attitude. 

I am a live and let live kind of guy, If it works for you , I am all for it, but I draw the line when one person's  beliefs are imposed on me and mine. The same way that you would feel if we tried to impose our disbelief on you. 

Yes, I think like you. Most of my friends are atheists and I know I would probably lose most of them if I were an evangelical kind of person, constantly bombarding them with my beliefs. 
At the same time though, I expect the same courtesy from them and to an extend from the posters in this thread. Respect is a two way road: it has to be given to be received. While I don't think anyone here is imposing their God views on others (at least not anymore since certain bible thumpers left a while ago), it is inevitable that this subject is being discussed. It's the "Do you believe in God" thread after all. On the other hand, it far too often happens that the atheist belief system is imposed onto the world and the thread here by blanket statements like "God doesn't exist". 
First off, this is an opinion and not a fact. A believer can't objectively prove there is God just like an atheist can't prove that there isn't.
Seeking and finding God is a subjective endeavour and only you can find the proof for yourself.

A much more intellectually honest statement would be: "I simply don't know. I don't think a Higher Power exists. I have no interest in finding out." Fair enough. This way we can have a discussion on equal standing ground. 

But if you make your experience of a Godless life the measuring staff for all other's experiences, you are denying the other person's view. That's imposing your worldview onto others. You are putting yourself at an unfair advantage by doing so. Just as you don't like that done to you, I also don't like it... no one does. You see, a true seeker can easily coexist with an atheist, but far too often it seems an atheist can not coexist with the ideas brought forth by a seeker.

How many times on here, complete strangers pretended to know what (my) consciousness experienced, better than I know it myself!? How could they know when most of them barely know their own and some of them don't even believe in consciousness at all? 

[Tagged]

14 hours ago, Stocky said:

In keeping with other popular topics, might not this be resurrected, reborn anew, reincarnated as:

 Do you still believe in God and why (2021)

 

I believe in Nature and nature of the laws. If that is god? Let it be god.

[Surelynot]

16 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Or you can try this...

When the mainboard on your PC is damaged, does the internet disappear?

Just because you're not able to connect to the internet, do you think everybody else is unable as well?

 

 

 

 

I can check if the internet is still there...just logon with another computer......

 

......where will you go to check if the consciousness of another person is "still there".....oh dear...you can't.....and you know why?......it into longer exists....it 'died' with the brain death of the individual......as Boris Johnson would say......I now consider the matter closed....5555

[Surelynot]

3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

A believer can't objectively prove there is God just like an atheist can't prove that there isn't.

 

You simply cannot invent a fantasy and then suggest people have to prove the fantasy is just that...a fantasy......and until they do you are entitled spout on about its existence.

 

Back to Victorian teapot time me thinks.

[Sunmaster]

27 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

 

You simply cannot invent a fantasy and then suggest people have to prove the fantasy is just that...a fantasy......and until they do you are entitled spout on about its existence.

 

Back to Victorian teapot time me thinks.

You're making it very easy for yourself.

You claim the matter closed without proper inquiry, without proof, without even a shred of evidence to back your conclusion. You can't accept when a solution is presented to you that would probably shed light on the matter, because you're incapable of seeing anything beyond your nose and are incapable of accepting that you may not have all the answers. Then you puff yourself up as if you've won the argument. ????

If I'd use the word childish, it would be a compliment. 

 

 

[Tagged]

Interesting article 

 

 

"Does God have to be part of our understanding of the universe? No. But if scientists tell the public that they have to choose between God and science, most people will choose God, which leads to denialism, hostility to science and the profoundly dangerous mental incoherence in modern society that fosters depression and conflict. Meanwhile, many of those who choose science find themselves without any way of thinking that can give them access to their own spiritual potential. What we need is a coherent big picture that is completely consistent with — and even inspired by — science, yet provides an empowering way of rethinking God that provides the human and social benefits without the fantasy. How can we get this?"

 

read more

https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/04/23/401643807/a-god-that-could-be-real-in-the-scientific-universe

[mauGR1]

31 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

 

I can check if the internet is still there...just logon with another computer......

 

......where will you go to check if the consciousness of another person is "still there".....oh dear...you can't.....and you know why?......it into longer exists....it 'died' with the brain death of the individual......as Boris Johnson would say......I now consider the matter closed....5555

I have no doubt this may be true for you and your level of consciousness. 

Yet, there are many people whose physical body has ceased to exist, but they are alive on another level of existence. 

May I start with Jesus ? It's a rather long list, but I will name a few.. Michelangelo,  Leonardo, Mozart, Bach,  Dante and Shakespeare, even Jimi Hendrix and Bob Dylan, being  music innovators of some importance, will be alive for a long time.

So you are completely off target here, as the consciousness of great people of the past is, without doubt, the foundation of the present consciousness of many.

I suspect though that this post is wasted on you ????

[Surelynot]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

I have no doubt this may be true for you and your level of consciousness. 

Yet, there are many people whose physical body has ceased to exist, but they are alive on another level of existence. 

May I start with Jesus ? It's a rather long list, but I will name a few.. Michelangelo,  Leonardo, Mozart, Bach,  Dante and Shakespeare, even Jimi Hendrix and Bob Dylan, being  music innovators of some importance, will be alive for a long time.

So you are completely off target here, as the consciousness of great people of the past is, without doubt, the foundation of the present consciousness of many.

I suspect though that this post is wasted on you ????

Well to be fair...you got the last bit correct....sorry, not going to bother arguing with you...but what a load of codswallop .....

 

.....but they are alive on another level of existence......you mean they were prominent people and we are aware of the fact they existed and know of the work they did.....that is called history....

[Sunmaster]

4 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Interesting article 

 

 

"Does God have to be part of our understanding of the universe? No. But if scientists tell the public that they have to choose between God and science, most people will choose God, which leads to denialism, hostility to science and the profoundly dangerous mental incoherence in modern society that fosters depression and conflict. Meanwhile, many of those who choose science find themselves without any way of thinking that can give them access to their own spiritual potential. What we need is a coherent big picture that is completely consistent with — and even inspired by — science, yet provides an empowering way of rethinking God that provides the human and social benefits without the fantasy. How can we get this?"

 

read more

https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2015/04/23/401643807/a-god-that-could-be-real-in-the-scientific-universe

That's exactly it! One doesn't exclude the other.

 

Like I said before, I believe in a future where science and spirituality will fuse to become one and the same, seamlessly complementing each other.

[VincentRJ]

4 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

A believer can't objectively prove there is God just like an atheist can't prove that there isn't.
Seeking and finding God is a subjective endeavour and only you can find the proof for yourself.
 

 

As I've mentioned before, a unique characteristic of the human species is our capacity for language and abstract thought. However, the usefulness of language is dependent upon the precise meaning of the words we use. For example, certain primitive societies use only one word for all trees. They don't distinguish between different species of trees.

 

As societies have evolved, the number of words used to describe specific things or concepts has increased. The development of science, which is the basis of our current prosperity and our knowledge of the environment and the universe, is dependent upon the precise definition of every term used.

 

If you are going to discuss the existence of God, and question whether He/She/It's existence can be proved or disproved, you must first precisely define what you mean by the word 'God'..

 

Vague hand-waving, like, 'God is Everything', won't pass muster.
 

[Sunmaster]

6 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

As I've mentioned before, a unique characteristic of the human species is our capacity for language and abstract thought. However, the usefulness of language is dependent upon the precise meaning of the words we use. For example, certain primitive societies use only one word for all trees. They don't distinguish between different species of trees.

 

As societies have evolved, the number of words used to describe specific things or concepts has increased. The development of science, which is the basis of our current prosperity and our knowledge of the environment and the universe, is dependent upon the precise definition of every term used.

 

If you are going to discuss the existence of God, and question whether He/She/It's existence can be proved or disproved, you must first precisely define what you mean by the word 'God'..

 

Vague hand-waving, like, 'God is Everything', won't pass muster.
 

I've spent the last year doing just that. It's all written down in this thread. I'm surprised you've missed it.

 

And why is such scrutiny reserved only for me? Why can others spout their unfounded claims and opinions disguised as facts, without any knowledge of the subject, be it objective or subjective knowledge? 

Do you ask them to supporting evidence for their claims as well? Do you also question them?

Edited January 2, 2021 by Sunmaster