Do you believe in God and why

[Date Masamune]

7 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

It amazes me how many Nicea myths exist on the internet today.  It amazes me even more so many people give up their salvation over these myths.  The Bible is the word of God.  It would be much better for you to take time to read the Bible, instead of posting silly comments on Thai Visa.

Any child of half a brain will run from this "salvation" instinctively, like one would avoid touching fire or a snarling rabid dog. The "salvation" of the Hebrew G-d is true death,  a trap, and the greatest lie in all History. Eternal life arise only from darkness of DAGON! HAIL DAGON!

 

The Bible was not edited at Nicea it just where con-men with hats and long beards, and their dupes and stooges argued terms of their own destruction. A  pointless historical event of mental masturbation

[notmyself]

On 7/19/2019 at 9:51 AM, CMNightRider said:

It amazes me how many Nicea myths exist on the internet today.

 

So varied were the beliefs that something had to be done... a canon made. It was decided that which was to be kept and which was to be thrown out on the basis of? It could have been done by way of the proverbial tail on a donkey but I suspect it was done using a method associated with reason. The very same method that those of a religious ilk contemptuously disregard. 

[Elad]

I believe with live in, and are part of, a universe that started from nothing, a zero-energy universe. 

And we can actually do a calculation based on the visible universe and the known energies within it.

 

 

so then:

 

 

m = mass of a hypothetical particle at the edge of the visible universe

c = 2.998 x 10⁸ m s^-1 (speed of light)

G = 6.673 x 10^-11 m³ s^-2 kg^-1  (Newton's gravitational constant)

M = 1.67 x 10⁵³ kg  (mass of the visible universe 10⁸⁰ protons)

r = 1.24 x 10²⁶ m  (radius of the visible universe) 

 

for a zero energy universe then

 

 

We can cancel m on each side to give:

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

so, to 2 decimal places both values are equal, meaning we have zero energy for the visible universe.

Since the universe is homogeneous on large scales then we can assume it's zero energy for the entire universe.

 

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

24 minutes ago, Elad said:

I believe with live in, and are part of, a universe that started from nothing, a zero-energy universe. 

And we can actually do a calculation based on the visible universe and the known energies within it.

 

 

so then:

 

 

m = mass of a hypothetical particle at the edge of the visible universe

c = 2.998 x 10⁸ m s^-1 (speed of light)

G = 6.673 x 10^-11 m³ s^-2 kg^-1  (Newton's gravitational constant)

M = 1.67 x 10⁵³ kg  (mass of the visible universe 10⁸⁰ protons)

r = 1.24 x 10²⁶ m  (radius of the visible universe) 

 

for a zero energy universe then

 

 

We can cancel m on each side to give:

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

so, to 2 decimal places both values are equal, meaning we have zero energy for the visible universe.

Since the universe is homogeneous on large scales then we can assume it's zero energy for the entire universe.

 

 

 

 

Yes-but can you sing it?????

 

"Does the universe hang low

Can you tie it in a knot

Can you swing it over your shoulder

Like a continental soldier

Does your universe hang low?"

[notmyself]

47 minutes ago, Elad said:

 

I believe with live in, and are part of, a universe that started from nothing, a zero-energy universe. 

 

 

It's a reasonable proposition that could well be correct and has I think been referred to as the ultimate free lunch. All very interesting as I do love math, perhaps because my mother was a mathematician  Also love food because my father was a chef. A story perhaps....

 

Every couple of weeks I rent (take over in effect) a restaurant in town, on their quiet night, and give friends and staff a free dinner. 30-40 people maybe. The terms with whatever restaurant is that they provide the staff and kitchen and take all profit from drinks sales. I supply and cook myself everything I need too and they also know I personally never charge anyone for anything.

 

So one time in one place I was doing a stew (Scouse) which takes ages so was sitting in the restaurant looking at receipts and the owner and she asked why I bothered doing it as everything is free so margin is meaningless. I still want to know what it cost per head for future reference I told her. Maybe I just love numbers but the effect was she asked me to show her how to do an accurate cost analysis because she was doing it all in her head.

 

Anyway... a zero energy universe does nothing with regard to the god question other than to show the something/nothing claim to be unsubstantiated. One wonders what will come next as while reason slumbers, monsters appear.

 

 

 

 

[ivor bigun]

As there are billions of planets ,its safe to assume that there are other life forms ,wonder if they have the bible ? And will "our"Jesus greet them when they arrive in heaven or will they have their own one?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[notmyself]

1 minute ago, ivor bigun said:

 

As there are billions of planets ,its safe to assume that there are other life forms ,wonder if they have the bible ? And will "our"Jesus greet them when they arrive in heaven or will they have their own one?
 

 

It's not safe to assume but all else still stands. One day the Christians may perhaps find a revelation in their book to HAVE to accommodate it. 

 

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 1&version=NIV

 

Member CNM uses NIV rather than the super accurate KJV I think.

 

Formless and empty .........…. except for darkness, deepness and water. So not formless and empty then?

 

[Sunmaster]

Hi guys, I'm back. ????

I skimmed through the 30+ pages that accumulated in the time I was absent and I'm sad to say that the discussion has somewhat degenerated in endless comments about what the bible says and what not. 
Instead of looking at the bigger picture, you worry if mosquitoes were on Noah's ark or not. 555

The thread's question was: Do you believe in God and why.

CMNightRider: Yes, because I believe what the bible says and if you don't, you'll be eternally damned.
Skeptic7: No, because you're all wrong and stupid and I'm right.

The 2 extremes and extremists of this thread ????

I think: "God" has to be experienced first-hand.

There's no other way and it's certainly not by reading a book or going to university.

[wilailuk]

I don´t believe in any "god" - I believe in myself, because there´s a Divine Something in there, that I can ask questions and get answers from, sometimes like riddles.. but they are OK, they help me, when I need help.

 

I don´t pray - I ask questions - like:  "how can I help improve everything" - and then I get answers, works amazingly well and fast..

 

So yes, there´s a God, it´s inside of everyone, the whole Universe is in there, just go in an explore it..

 

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by wilailuk

[notmyself]

3 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

You should have done us all a favor and stayed gone. Obviously didn't gain anything new or worthwhile. Nobody missed your silly BS. NOBODY...????

 

Keep it pleasant mate. ish.

 

 

[roo860]

You should have done us all a favor and stayed gone. Obviously didn't gain anything new or worthwhile. Nobody missed your silly BS. NOBODY...[emoji16]

Less of the 'us all.'

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[notmyself]

3 hours ago, wilailuk said:

I don´t believe in any "god" - I believe in myself, because there´s a Divine Something in there, that I can ask questions and get answers from, sometimes like riddles.. but they are OK, they help me, when I need help.

 

I don´t pray - I ask questions - like:  "how can I help improve everything" - and then I get answers, works amazingly well and fast..

 

So yes, there´s a God, it´s inside of everyone, the whole Universe is in there, just go in an explore it..

 

 

 

Fully but using the term god causes misunderstanding. 

 

 

[notmyself]

6 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

CMNightRider: Yes, because I believe what the bible says and if you don't, you'll be eternally damned.
Skeptic7: No, because you're all wrong and stupid and I'm right.

The 2 extremes and extremists of this thread ????

I think: "God" has to be experienced first-hand.

There's no other way and it's certainly not by reading a book or going to university.

 

To paraphrase Dan Dennet. There is no polite way to suggest to someone that you are not convinced by their argument or proposition. Every single argument EVER put forward boils down to blind faith which some may find offensive what another asserts it is valid. I have an invisible Leprechaun called Colin who lives in my shed and it created everything. Prove me wrong.

 

 

[Damrongsak]

On 7/21/2019 at 6:14 PM, Odysseus123 said:

Yes-but can you sing it?????

 

"Does the universe hang low

Can you tie it in a knot

Can you swing it over your shoulder

Like a continental soldier

Does your universe hang low?"

My two celestial bodies hang low

They are in different orbits these days

The universe expands in different rates

[Sunmaster]

7 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

You should have done us all a favor and stayed gone. Obviously didn't gain anything new or worthwhile. Nobody missed your silly BS. NOBODY...????

Uuuhhh, a bit touchy, are we? ????

 

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

To paraphrase Dan Dennet. There is no polite way to suggest to someone that you are not convinced by their argument or proposition. Every single argument EVER put forward boils down to blind faith which some may find offensive what another asserts it is valid. I have an invisible Leprechaun called Colin who lives in my shed and it created everything. Prove me wrong.

 

 

Yes, my point....therefore I think that a discussion is only worthwhile and productive when 2 individuals are more or less on the same page and have a willingness to listen to each other.

If the discussion revolves around 2 opposites, with each one trying to convince and disprove the other, all they're doing is running in circles and running their mouths. It's just obnoxious ego stroking.

As it so often is in life, the truth lies somewhere in between. And that's why I say it again, if you want to know if there's a God and what it looks like, you've got to close those books, close your mouth, your eyes, switch off the constant chatter in your head....and listen.

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Sunmaster

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 9:19 AM, Elad said:

All of the elements in our bodies except for hydrogen were forged inside stars.

Yes, and where did the stars come from?

 

Doesn't really matter if some don't believe and think that when they die they become nothing, every time I see a beautiful sunset or a wonderful scenery I see the hand of the "maker" in it. I don't believe that it just happened from nothing.

 

None of us actually know, so perhaps believing there is nothing after life is a form of religion, as it's based on a belief as much as belief in "God" is.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 2:24 PM, ivor bigun said:

As there are billions of planets ,its safe to assume that there are other life forms ,wonder if they have the bible ? And will "our"Jesus greet them when they arrive in heaven or will they have their own one?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I think anyone miss the point of "God" if they think that what happens on earth has to be replicated throughout all the universe.

Different life forms can receive the message in different ways.

[thaibeachlovers]

58 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Yes, my point....therefore I think that a discussion is only worthwhile and productive when 2 individuals are more or less on the same page and have a willingness to listen to each other.

If the discussion revolves around 2 opposites, with each one trying to convince and disprove the other, all they're doing is running in circles and running their mouths. It's just obnoxious ego stroking.

As it so often is in life, the truth lies somewhere in between. And that's why I say it again, if you want to know if there's a God and what it looks like, you've got to close those books, close your mouth, your eyes, switch off the constant chatter in your head....and listen.

 

The reason that this thread has gone on so long is that one of the posters has, by his own words, decided to yank our chains and laugh at the result. I could have reported him, but decided to let him hang himself.

It's impossible to have a rational discussion if one side is just in it to be obnoxious, but the rest of us are having a good discussion.

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The reason that this thread has gone on so long is that one of the posters has, by his own words, decided to yank our chains and laugh at the result. I could have reported him, but decided to let him hang himself.

It's impossible to have a rational discussion if one side is just in it to be obnoxious, but the rest of us are having a good discussion.

It's impossible to have rational discourse with the irrational...especially those whom willfully ignore

facts, scientific findings and even reality while considering wild notions of personal fantasies and hopeful desires to be credible. Funny how certain posters here take offense when others disagree and then resort to crying foul. Guess it's difficult to defend the indefensible. 

 

And here it comes again...but what is reality...how do you know what is real...what if this and maybe that...god is love...god is the universe...something greater than us but invisible, undetectable, doesn't care, doesn't interact and could never be understood by us stupid humans regardless. ????

 

Bring it ????

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

It's impossible to have rational discourse with the irrational...especially those whom willfully ignore

facts, scientific findings and even reality while considering wild notions of personal fantasies and hopeful desires to be credible. Funny how certain posters here take offense when others disagree and then resort to crying foul. Guess it's difficult to defend the indefensible. 

 

And here it comes again...but what is reality...how do you know what is real...what if this and maybe that...god is love...god is the universe...something greater than us but invisible, undetectable, doesn't care, doesn't interact and could never be understood by us stupid humans regardless. ????

 

Bring it ????

LOL. No one is forcing you to have a conversation, but I know why you are doing so. 

You are actually just as committed to your view point as a certain other poster to the opposite, and just as irrelevant to the conversation, but don't let me put you off posting- You are quite amusing.

Edited July 24, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[faraday]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. No one is forcing you to have a conversation, but I know why you are doing so. 

You are actually just as committed to your view point as a certain other poster to the opposite, and just as irrelevant to the conversation, but don't let me put you off posting- You are quite amusing.

I think that someone perhaps might change his name to 'Dogmatic'.

 

 

[Odysseus123]

The Greeks talked about this-in fact no-one else has even come close..

 

The Apollonian-logical,rational,mathematical..-the music of the spheres

The Dionysian-wild irrational,primitive,orgiastic,mysterious

 

Religion is always a "mystery."

 

Julian Jaynes*puts it another way when he describes the functions of the left brain/right brain and their bicameral nature

 

Either way-there is no-one on the planet who is merely the proud possessor of one function or the other-it is always a mixture-as the both,entwined, are the very foundations of how Homo Sapiens,their ideas,their societies and cultures function and flourish.

*Julian Jaynes 'The Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.'

Watson also has a good section on this in 'A History of Ideas.'

[Odysseus123]

The "Mystery"..

 

"I, that on my familiar hill

Saw with uncomprehending eyes

Thy fresh and sanguine sacrifice

Ere the sun swings his noonday sword

must say goodbye to all of this

To all delights that I shall miss

Help me to die, O Lord.."

 

Captain Noel Hodgson,written on the 30th of June 1916.Killed in action the 1st of July,1916.The first day of the battle of the Somme.

[Sunmaster]

I was not familiar with this yogi, but after having watched the video, I can't but agree with all he said.

[notmyself]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think anyone miss the point of "God" if they think that what happens on earth has to be replicated throughout all the universe.

Different life forms can receive the message in different ways.

 

You know this to be true how?

[sunnyboy2018]

On 7/18/2019 at 12:23 PM, wgdanson said:

The Bible not only inspires YOU it explains life and God to YOU.  It does not answer all the questions YOU might have, but enough of them.  It shows YOU how to live with purpose and compassion.  How to relate to others. It encourages YOU to rely on God for strength, direction, and enjoy his love for YOU.  The Bible also tells YOU how YOU can have eternal life.

 

I am not YOU.But I do know how to live with purpose and compassion, and how to relate to others without the need for a 2000 year old book

Please stop preaching. I find your assertions absurd and dismissed such silliness from my life when I was 12.  I have no interest in religious extremism,  which for me includes promoting the absurd idea that the bible is the word of god or that it offers a route a bearded sky fairy and the after life. The bible is sexist, anti gay, patriarchal, judgementtal and brutal.

[Elad]

20 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

On 7/17/2019 at 10:19 PM, Elad said:

All of the elements in our bodies except for hydrogen were forged inside stars.

Yes, and where did the stars come from?

From large molecular clouds of hydrogen that collapses under gravity to form protostars, and thus protoplanetary disks. 

Protoplanetary disks (young solar systems) have been observed directly in the Orion nebula by the Hubble space telescope.

 

http://sci.esa.int/hubble/27174-protoplanetary-disks-in-the-orion-nebula/

[notmyself]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Yes, and where did the stars come from?

 

Doesn't really matter if some don't believe and think that when they die they become nothing, every time I see a beautiful sunset or a wonderful scenery I see the hand of the "maker" in it. I don't believe that it just happened from nothing.

 

None of us actually know, so perhaps believing there is nothing after life is a form of religion, as it's based on a belief as much as belief in "God" is.

 

I've shown multiple times that this 'nothing' you speak of it totally erroneous but In the interest of community cohesion I will repeat it again.

 

Atheism is the rejection of the claim that an intervening god exists and that is it. Anything added HAS to be taken out of thin air which is why fellow members have asked, sometimes impolitely, on what grounds can the claim be made.

 

The 'nothing argument' has been around for many decades so someone saying they didn't know is likely false but never know for sure, so here it is again.

 

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man." The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.[2][3] Straw man arguments have been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly regarding highly charged emotional subjects.

Straw man tactics in the United Kingdom can be known as an Aunt Sally, after a pub game of the same name, where patrons threw sticks or battens at a post to knock off a skittle balanced on top.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

 

[notmyself]

47 minutes ago, Elad said:

From large molecular clouds of hydrogen that collapses under gravity to form protostars, and thus protoplanetary disks. 

Protoplanetary disks (young solar systems) have been observed directly in the Orion nebula by the Hubble space telescope.

 

http://sci.esa.int/hubble/27174-protoplanetary-disks-in-the-orion-nebula/

 

Likely some helium too.