Poll: Retired Expats in Thailand -- in light of visa changes would you recommend Thailand to new retired expats?

[Jingthing]

The headline says it.

Feel free to comment.

I would not recommend except to very wealthy people that are prepared to deal with a lack of residency security going forward for decades.

The paradigm now in my opinion is slowly but surely, rich retired expats stay and in, not rich OUT.

I think many not rich expats will not get that clear message before it's too late and they've overly committed in Thailand.

So I would say best to protect yourself and your future and don't come in the first place.

Of course the definition of "rich" is very subjective.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Jingthing

[marcusarelus]

I'd recommend reading the poll on Thai Visa about how many expats have actually left Thailand because of the recent Visa changes so you can get a realistic impression if anyone really cares. 

[dbrenn]

I would only recommend Thailand to cashed up expats, never to those who are anywhere near the minimum financial requirements. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I'd recommend reading the poll on Thai Visa about how many expats have actually left Thailand because of the recent Visa changes so you can get a realistic impression if anyone really cares. 

Irrelevant to this poll.

People if they leave, will not leave all at once.

Some will leave quickly based on an immigration meeting shock. 

Such as the guy in Krabi that went in with an income import application and was told go away no embassy letter no chance even though your embassy no longer offers letters.

Others will leave more on their own time frames, especially if they have strong ties in Thailand (relationships and assets).

Others will fork over the cash for a very expensive Elite Card based visa.

One of most expensive visa options on the planet for a nation at the economic level of Thailand. 

As retired expats in Thailand we understand the changes.

Some of us feel them intensely (I do) and others do not.

Surely that will color our feelings about recommendations to others.

Personally I strongly feel all not wealthy potential new retired expats need to be WARNED.

That seems to me to be the only decent and ETHICAL response to this situation.

Why wish the pain on others? 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Jingthing

[ubonjoe]

No directly related to Thai visas. Moved to the Pub.

[1FinickyOne]

23 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

except to very wealthy people

You want to define that? 

 

I still feel that the visa is a breeze... if the visa is in the slightest way a hurdle, what will they do about health insurance? That to me is the larger issue... 

[totally thaied up]

I would only tell a expat thinking of coming here that she/he needs to have a decent retirement income, have a good health care package prepared and be ready for any changes this Government can make.

 

In other words be prepared. If you can cover the 800K and not much else, I would forget about it now. Days of Cheap Charlie characters are going away. Just one health mishap could wipe you out.

[david555]

39 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I'd recommend reading the poll on Thai Visa about how many expats have actually left Thailand because of the recent Visa changes so you can get a realistic impression if anyone really cares. 

You must consider in that that those already "in the boat" must keep peddling probably , while J.T. ask if you would recommend new candidates retirees  …… those still have a choice and not burned ships yet !

While I have no problem following the new rules , I do not like them at all to take the freedom away to control my own money , even when it is now already 6 years more than the needed on account never under the limit , on the contrary more upped....But don't take freedom away ,this  farang is touchy for that …, does not give me trust for future things to happen , ???? in 4 years I planned already to 50/50 Thailand/Europe ,or other green pastures than Thailand  as it seems they think not needing us anymore ,gives a feeling not to be welcome anymore 

Edited April 22, 2019 by david555

[Luckysilk]

17 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I'd recommend reading the poll on Thai Visa about how many expats have actually left Thailand because of the recent Visa changes so you can get a realistic impression if anyone really cares. 

But I read they are moving to Latin America 5555555

 

Another negative poll/post to feed the cheap Charlie's.

[Saraphee]

 When asked, and I have been, if I would recommend Thailand as a business base the answer was always No - lots to do with cultural differences.

Would I now recommend it for retirement? Probably not, I agree with kenk24 + cultural differences.

[madmen]

Not without health insurance. Thats the first thing and if you think 800k is expensive just wait until your stroke bill after 2 weeks in ICU !

[glegolo]

As usual you guys needs to have a reality check, most of you it seems. The thread should indicate that you are thinking about expats from the 4 primtive one countries, the ones without income-letters, they are; Denmark, UK, Australia and USA. The rest of ALL OF US as a majority are just fine...... And can look forward to many fine years here in Thailand in the future hopefully......

 

glegolo

[NightSky]

I would recommend if money wasn't an object and healthcare was available but even then I would probably recommend long holidays.

Edited April 22, 2019 by NightSky

[mokwit]

See it for what it is - a long stay holiday destination with no right to reside/long term security, as evidenced by "Non immigrant" visa status with one year extensions based on fulfilling conditions that recent precedents have shown can change without grandfathering. Don't burn your bridges.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by mokwit

[Jingthing]

I would suggest if you can really afford to commit to Thailand's lack of residence security going forward for potentially decades, then you can also afford a very high end retirement destination such as New Zealand. Certainly Spain, Portugal, Panama City, Uruguay levels too. So my point in saying that is that in my view the vast majority of retirees in Thailand up till now are largely motivated by the bang for the baht factor, geographical arbitrage as it were. Given the trend in immigration policies here I see the future of this place only for the quite wealthy retiree. I think most of such very wealthy retirees would be better off elsewhere, but if they really really love Thailand in an exclusive way, then of course it would be Thailand. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Jingthing

[kokesaat]

The visa situation, to me, has hardly changed. So, if someone considering moving here asked me my opinion, I'd tell them only move here if you either have health insurance or a sizable wad of cash available for medical needs.  800k in the bank is a reasonable requirement and serves as an emergency source of cash if needed.  

There are a hundred reasons to move here and another hundred to not move here.  All the recent hullabaloo about immigration hasn't amounted to much change at all.

[Destiny1990]

I will recommend it only for a 30 days holiday destination.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Destiny1990

[mokwit]

11 minutes ago, kokesaat said:

The visa situation, to me, has hardly changed. So, if someone considering moving here asked me my opinion, I'd tell them only move here if you either have health insurance or a sizable wad of cash available for medical needs.  800k in the bank is a reasonable requirement and serves as an emergency source of cash if needed.  

There are a hundred reasons to move here and another hundred to not move here.  All the recent hullabaloo about immigration hasn't amounted to much change at all.

I would say visa is now less hassle for me - I will just leave the 800k in the bank and so don't have to remind myself to replenish three months before, nor do I have to get a new bank book in advance of this to ensure all transactions are in one book.

 

I still understand I have to be out of here while I still can - this is a years not months timescale based on the risk of changes that mean I no longer qualify when I am too old to relocate.

 

Thailand is not a "retirement" destination now. It is along stay holiday for those who qualify for 1 yr extensions/pay for elite.

Edited April 22, 2019 by mokwit

[CaptainJack]

My rules would be:

 

1. If over 64 and not able to afford an international medical insurance policy or already have medical insurance, absolutely not. (See my information below on that topic).

 

2. If not able to handle the heat, not.

 

3. If not able to handle loneliness and isolation,  not.

 

4. If not having a minimum off 100k USD available for funding your life and "buying" the lifestyle you want,  not.

 

5. If not able to live with unpredictable government and immigration law and rules,  not......

 

 

On obtaining medical insurance in Thailand when over 65. 

 

I researched this until I was exhausted.  Pacific Cross kept coming up as the great option always suggested by TV members.

 

For the record,  at 67 years old  I was not eligible for any except 3 of a dozen different companies.   Pacific Cross was very clear on the quote they gave me.  I am only eligible for an "international plan", and because I have had laser treatment for my retinas and take medication for high cholesterol,  those are both preexisting conditions.   Any vision or coronary artery or heart disease is not covered.

 

The cheapest plan with Pacific Cross was around 9000 USD a year. The better plan was around 12,000 USA a year.

 

I grew tired of everyone telling me how I could get an affordable policy, and I applied for several different plans that I was not already eliminated. The best I could find that would actually pay and cover me was Cigna International and Geoblue with no exclusion on preexisting conditions.

 

The Geoblue expatriate policy for my age starts at 1200 USA dollars a month and goes up, as do they all with age.

 

For Pacific Cross, I've included the links and information.

 

I state again.  I actually applied and got quotes.  Here are the links you can read for yourselves. 

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Standard_International_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Comprehensive_International_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Major_Medical_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

 

https://www.pacificcross.com/images/Health_Brochure/2018/Premier_International_Plan_2019_Soft.pdf

[Pharoticus]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I would suggest if you can really afford to commit to Thailand's lack of residence security going forward for potentially decades, then you can also afford a very high end retirement destination such as New Zealand. Certainly Spain, Portugal, Panama City, Uruguay levels too. So my point in saying that is that in my view the vast majority of retirees in Thailand up till now are largely motivated by the bang for the baht factor, geographical arbitrage as it were. Given the trend in immigration policies here I see the future of this place only for the quite wealthy retiree. I think most of such very wealthy retirees would be better off elsewhere, but if they really really love Thailand in an exclusive way, then of course it would be Thailand. 

Very few westerners "really really love Thailand". 

 

I think those that claim to be in love are either in serious denial or too heavily invested to bail out.   

 

But yeah, for wealthy retirees Thailand is a lousy option. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Pharoticus said:

Very few westerners "really really love Thailand". 

 

I think those that claim to be in love are either in serious denial or too heavily invested to bail out.   

 

But yeah, for wealthy retirees Thailand is a lousy option. 

Also keep in mind Thailand offers no path at all towards permanent residence or citizenship based on expat retirement status. Many other retired expat attracting nations (of different economic levels) DO offer such paths. 

[luckyluke]

I would recommend Thailand to my compatriots(Belgians) based on the actual Immigration rules, which haven't changed for us. 

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

I would recommend Thailand to my compatriots(Belgians) based on the actual Immigration rules, which haven't changed for us. 

 

They have for Belgians doing

 

800K applications (much more seasoning and also the lockup)

Combo methods (reports that at least one office isn't doing combo applications at all anymore). For offices still accepting them with or without letter, the enforcement rules are now much more complicated and confusing, even to the officers, because the bank portion must now somehow conform to similar rules at the 800K method super seasoning.

Many officers can't even tell you the specific mechanical rules.

It's a total mess. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Jingthing

[mokwit]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

I would recommend Thailand to my compatriots(Belgians) based on the actual Immigration rules, which haven't changed for us. 

 

Yet..........................

can you be sure that will hold over a retirement horizon of 30+ years.

[totally thaied up]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

you can also afford a very high end retirement destination such as New Zealand. Certainly Spain, Portugal, Panama City,

With my current visit to Australia, the costs for basics are similar now to Thailand as long as I do not eat out. Yet, if I do eat out, it is comparable to eating farang food prices in Thailand, so no real biggie.

 

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Also keep in mind Thailand offers no path at all towards permanent residence or citizenship based on expat retirement status. Many other retired expat attracting nations (of different economic levels) DO offer such paths. 

And this is the real biggie - for around $7000 I can get my wife PR in Australia, something I am unable to do in Thailand.

 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Yet..........................

can you be sure that will hold over a retirement horizon of 30+ years.

That's a big part of my point.

The trend is already super clear.

People shouldn't feel they can only afford it now unless they're consciously only coming here for a year or two.

That is not "retiring" here.

That's a long holiday. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Jingthing

[CNX GUY]

1 hour ago, david555 said:

freedom is everything - hard to come by though

 

[luckyluke]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

based on the actual Immigration rules, which haven't changed for us. 

I meant based on the fact that a Letter of Income is still accepted by Immigration. 

No money needed on a Thai bankbook, no monthly minimum transfer of 65000 needed. 

4 minutes ago, mokwit said:

can you be sure

One must take in account that nothing is sure here. 

One must have a plan B, even eventually C, but no paranoïa. 

[CNX GUY]

7 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

With my current visit to Australia, the costs for basics are similar now to Thailand as long as I do not eat out. Yet, if I do eat out, it is comparable to eating farang food prices in Thailand, so no real biggie.

 

And this is the real biggie - for around $7000 I can get my wife PR in Australia, something I am unable to do in Thailand.

 

yeah but it's Australia

[Orton Rd]

I would no longer recommend Thailand for a holiday never mind retiring here