Kidney Stones And Gall Stones

[lingling]

My father went to Bumrungrad for a checkup a while ago. They discovered a gall stone and a couple of small kidney stones and suggested open surgery along with a long hospital stay as treatment. I know that in the west they can do this with ultrasound and/or laparoscopic surgery. Does anyone know if these treatments (lithotripsy and laparoscopic cholecystectomy) are available in Thailand at any of the good private hospitals?

There seems to be no point in asking the hospitals since they all just reply with "make an appointment" instead of answering if they do it, so I figured maybe someone here knows...

[FunkyGuru]

Hi,

I am pretty sure the ultrasound treatments are available. However you may also consider some alternative treatments. Especially for gallstone. There are natural, painless diet based procedure that you can use to eliminate gallstone.

For Kidney stone, I would strongly recommend, on intrusive, ultra sound therapy. I will research and find out about the exact clinic which has such facility.

Once again, its my two satang worth !

[lingling]

I am pretty sure the ultrasound treatments are available. However you may also consider some alternative treatments. Especially for gallstone. There are natural, painless diet based procedure that you can use to eliminate gallstone.

For Kidney stone, I would strongly recommend, on intrusive, ultra sound therapy. I will research and find out about the exact clinic which has such facility.

Yup, so what we need to figure out is what hospital(s) can provide these treatments. It surprised me a little bit that a big hospital like Bumrungrad don't, but I guess there is more money to make in open surgery and a having the patient spend a week in the hospital than there is in a same day procedure with no overnight stay.

[sbk]

My father-in-law did the ultrasound in Bangkok quite a few years ago, so it is available.

Just asked hubby, the hospital was called Hua Jeow (no idea of the spelling). he doesn't know where it was at in Bangkok but if you can't find it, post here and I can ask my father-in-law next time I see him.

[FunkyGuru]

My father-in-law did the ultrasound in Bangkok quite a few years ago, so it is available.

Just asked hubby, the hospital was called Hua Jeow (no idea of the spelling). he doesn't know where it was at in Bangkok but if you can't find it, post here and I can ask my father-in-law next time I see him.

You are right there. Unfortunately the medical world has become ruthlessly commercial and dont' care for you if you aint' gonna spend with them. I am doing my search and hopefully will get back to you as soon as I have confirm information on the clinics that offer ultra sound treatments. You know Thailand, it could take some time but trust me search is on.

[FunkyGuru]

Ok initial research shows that ultrasound therapy is offered mostly in India. I could not find one single clinic in Thailand so far. Still searching more. Hopefully will find an answer.

BTW you can research if for self at Health Base information Site

Edited March 6, 2007 by FunkyGuru

[farangene]

I'm pretty sure I saw one of the tubs used to sonar kidney stones at Siriraj Hospital in Thonburi. I was told that Bumr. doesnt always have the equpment that some of the national hospitals in Bankgok have.

[Sheryl]

Before going into type of treatment, there is an issue of whther to get any treatment. I gather the stones were found on a routine physical and that he is asymptomatic. Quite a lot of people have kidney and gall stones without knowing it, and most will never have a problem as a result of them. On the other hand, when a problem does occur, it can be very painful and, in the case of gallstones, even life-threatening.

The general medical consensus is that small, asymptomatic kidney stones do not require treatment. Even if the stones subsequently cause an obstruction, it can usually be managed without surgery.

The management of asymptomatic gallstones is a bit more controversial. There is about a 2% a year chance that the stones will create an obstruction which requires emergency surgery and can be serious. So some doctors feel it is better -- assuming the patient is a good surgical candidate -- to remove the gallbladder electively. Others disagree and in any case it is the patient's decision to make.

Sometimes gall stones can be dissolved through the use of medications (bile salts).

If Bumrungrad recommended surgery without making it clear that no treatment was a valid option, then they were remiss at best.

I can't tell you what to do (re the gallstone) but I can tell you that there are valid arguments for and against surgery and that it is optional, and your dad needs to make an informed decision about it. I'd suggest your dad read up a bit on it or seek a second opinion at another hospital, asking specifically about the possibility of both no treatment or use of bile salts (will only work if the stones haven't calsified). Any doctor who is not willing to frankly discuss the option of no treatment and give concrete information about risks and benefits of both surgery and no surgery, is not a doctor you should trust.

About the non-invasive stone-dissolving technigue: it uses laser and is called lithotripsy. It is done for kidney stones but usually only if they are sysmptomatic. Can be done for gallstones but has become less popular now that there are laproscopic techniques for removing the gall bladder. Gall stones can recur, which is one argument in favor of surgery (on the other hand, they may not recur or may recur but be asymptomatic). I think Bangkok Hospital has a lithotripsor (laser devise for crushing gallstones and kidney stones). Can email them at [email protected] and specifically ask if they are able to so laser lithotripsy. For that matter, I'd be surprised if Bumrungrad doesn't also have one, but as I mentioned it is not so often used for gall stones (but it can be).

Good luck

[Tywais]

it uses laser and is called lithotripsy. It is done for kidney stones but usually only if they are sysmptomatic.

Lithotripsy have two different methods the most common uses high power sonic pulses to break the stones up. the 2nd is the laser version. Medlineplus

"Laser lithotripsy carries a slightly greater risk of complications than extracorporeal shock wave lithotripsy."

My wife's sister has had this problem and was put on medicine to dissolve them but after two years (the normal required time for it to be effective) still has the problem and due to the size will have to have surgery for removal. Been trying to find out more about techniques used here also since the family always comes to me for medical advice.

[Ijustwannateach]

According to the Prescription For Nutritional Healing reference guide (James F. Balch, M.D.) [1990! Warning, may be dated information!!],

For gallstones: Use three teaspoons of olive oil with the juice of a lemon before retiring and upon awakening. Many stones pass in the stool with this technique. Look for them! Grapefruit juice can be used instead of lemon juice. Try a castor oil pack on the gallbladder area.

It also recommends eating lots of raw foods, avoiding processed foods, avoiding overeating, drinking lots of apple juice to cleanse the liver, the usual healthy advice.

"Steven"

[Tywais]

Some links regarding ESWL facilities in Thailand > Global services and Phuket Intl Hospital and Bangkok Pattaya hospital

[Maestro]

I had extracorporeal shock wave lithotripsy in January at the St. Louis Hospital. Chose it because it was near to where I stayed. Renal colics at 11 a.m., check in at noon, x-rays, urologist “Do you want lithotripsy today or tomorrow?”, lithotripsy at 4 p.m., at my option stayed over-night, checked out the following morning.

I don’t like to say this but Bamrungrad may be trying to rip you off. Get a second opinion; I guess all major hospitals have the equipment. Bangkok Hospital, BNH Hospital, Samithivej come to mind, but there are many others, also in the lower-cost class.

I don’t know about gall stones, luckily never had any.

--

Maestro

[Thanyaburi Mac]

My father went to Bumrungrad for a checkup a while ago. They discovered a gall stone and a couple of small kidney stones and suggested open surgery along with a long hospital stay as treatment. I know that in the west they can do this with ultrasound and/or laparoscopic surgery. Does anyone know if these treatments (lithotripsy and laparoscopic cholecystectomy) are available in Thailand at any of the good private hospitals?

There seems to be no point in asking the hospitals since they all just reply with "make an appointment" instead of answering if they do it, so I figured maybe someone here knows...

I just came home yesterday from Vibhavadi General Hospital after the keyhole surgery for gallstones.  Went in Tuesday morning, op at noon.  Total bill for the entire deal, including two nights in a good room, pretty nurses (!), was baht 109,558, or $3,308 as charged to my U.S. credit card.

Got an email from a friend in the U.S. with a comparitive cost:

I just got the word from my Mum, she had gall bladder surgery approx 3

months ago, and had to stay a second night in the hospital. Total cost was:

Hospital $14,435.27

Anesthesia 992.20

Labs 379.40

Drs. 4,864.63

Total $20,671.15 before insurance

I guess this sort of explains why "medical tourism" is a viable industry here in Thailand!!

Only real downside of the whole deal is that the doc said no Singha for two weeks!!!

Mac

[Luckydog]

According to the Prescription For Nutritional Healing reference guide (James F. Balch, M.D.) [1990! Warning, may be dated information!!],

For gallstones: Use three teaspoons of olive oil with the juice of a lemon before retiring and upon awakening. Many stones pass in the stool with this technique. Look for them! Grapefruit juice can be used instead of lemon juice. Try a castor oil pack on the gallbladder area.

It also recommends eating lots of raw foods, avoiding processed foods, avoiding overeating, drinking lots of apple juice to cleanse the liver, the usual healthy advice.

"Steven"

This worked for my Brother last year....give it a try.

Edited June 29, 2007 by Maestro
Removed special formatting of entire post.

[moe666]

Google gallstone cleanse and you will have an abundance of ways to clear the buggers out.