Anger over Brexit sparks new grassroots drive for Scottish independence

[webfact]

Anger over Brexit sparks new grassroots drive for Scottish independence

By Elisabeth O'Leary

 

Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon speaks in the Scottish Parliament during continued Brexit uncertainty in Edinburgh, Scotland, Britain, April 24, 2019. REUTERS/Russell Cheyne

 

EDINBURGH (Reuters) - Supporters of an independent Scotland will launch a new grassroots campaign on Thursday ahead of a possible second referendum on secession from the United Kingdom, hoping to harness Scottish voters' anger over Brexit.

 

Scots rejected independence in 2014 and support since then has remained stuck at around 45 percent, opinion polls suggest. But Scots also voted to remain in the European Union in the 2016 Brexitreferendum, in which England and Wales voted to leave.

 

Under the crowd-funded initiative "Voices for Scotland", which has some 100,000 supporters, clipboard-wielding activists will fan out across Scotland to try to boost support for secession to the 50-60 percent range.

 

"I get the sense that we are in the death throes of the United Kingdom, that it is a very unstable construct," Maggie Chapman, one of the leaders of Voices for Scotland and also co-convenor of the Scottish Greens, told Reuters.

 

The launch comes a day after Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the country would start preparing for a second referendum on independence before May 2021 without permission from London because of Brexit.

 

Britain is mired in political chaos after parliament rejected three times the withdrawal deal negotiated by Prime Minister Theresa May and other EU leaders, and it is still unclear when or even if it will leave the bloc.

 

"UK NOT OK"

"One of the things that 'no' or undecided voters said to me in 2014, in the run-up to that referendum (on Scottish independence) was 'why, what do you want to change, the UK is fine as it is'," said Chapman.

 

"Brexit tells us that the UK is not OK, not only in terms of economic legitimacy and power, but in terms of trust in politics," she said.

 

Scotland's "Yes" movement took support for independence to 45 percent in 2014 from around 23 percent in 2012.

 

The new initiative will train campaigners to go out and "listen to what people need to help them become supportive of independence, as well as to persuade them of its merits", Voices for Scotland said in a statement.

 

It has so far raised about 100,000 pounds ($129,000) to train and support campaigners to spread the word on "every street in Scotland", Chapman said.

 

Its aim is particularly to target those who are undecided about Scottish independence or "who support the union but have had their faith undermined by recent events."

 

($1 = 0.7735 pounds)

 

(Reporting by Elisabeth O'Leary; Editing by Gareth Jones)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-04-25

[RuamRudy]

I never thought I would find myself agreeing with Mark Francois, but apparently we have some common ground.

[welovesundaysatspace]

Ireland, Scotland, England — Brexit is going well. Whatever it touches turns into gold it seems. 

[alant]

Trying to understand why being anti Brexit and Pro independence for Scotland is compatible/ The EU said at the time of the 1st referendum that an independent Scotland does not automatically qualify for continued membership.

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I never thought I would find myself agreeing with Mark Francois, but apparently we have some common ground.

 

Only Scotland isn't a sovereign nation, or member of the EU, or anything like what the nationalists like to pretend with their bluster and propaganda.

 

Sturgeon, an egotistical president wannabee if there was one, likes to pretend she has the authority to do this, that and the other. She once claimed she could veto the UK leaving the EU! She knows very well she can't unilaterally decided to hold another referendum and implement the result as she sees fit without Westminster's approval. Otherwise she's committing treason (shame they abolished capital punishment for treason!).

 

Any referendum that affects the whole UK must include all the people of the UK in it. The UK, a sovereign nation, cannot and will not be dictated to by small group of loudmouth fanatics in one area.

[leither69]

More nonsense from MSM

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Ireland, Scotland, England — Brexit is going well. Whatever it touches turns into gold it seems. 

 

The problem with Sturgeon and her loony fringe was there before Brexit. They hoped to use Brexit to persuade more people to their way of thinking. First their leader pretended she could veto Brexit; then she nipped over to the EU, where President Tusk refused to meet her and President Juncker told her politely and firmly that Scotland will leave the EU when the UK does and that any future independent Scotland could apply to join like any EU country can. But would have to meet all criteria; no back door, no exceptions to the rules. Despite this she came back pretending she'd had the "nods and winks" and it would be easy- peasy. 

 

The SNP grew voters because Scotland doesn't vote Conservative or Liberal in big numbers and became brassed off with the ineffectual numpties in the Labor party. Also has Corbyn is now trying to do, Sturgeon makes many many promises to younger less cynical, less experentially knowledge voters. She even proposed trying to lower the voting age in Scotland to 16! Anything to win - and lord help Scotland if she ever did.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, alant said:

Trying to understand why being anti Brexit and Pro independence for Scotland is compatible/ The EU said at the time of the 1st referendum that an independent Scotland does not automatically qualify for continued membership.

But Brexit (If it ever happens) automatically ends Scotland’s membership of the EU.

 

The EU offering membership to Scotland before Scottish Independence would undoubtedly be seen as interference.

 

Don’t mistake that as the EU having any objections to an independent Scotland becoming a member of the EU.

 

[geoffbezoz]

6 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I never thought I would find myself agreeing with Mark Francois, but apparently we have some common ground.

And I never thought I would side with a sweaty jock, being English, but if the Brexit morons do get their way then good luck to you in another referendum, leave the Eton educated fools behind and the Union.   Just hope when you apply for EU membership that Scotland meets all the EU conditions of membership.

[kamahele]

38 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Only Scotland isn't a sovereign nation, or member of the EU, or anything like what the nationalists like to pretend with their bluster and propaganda.

 

Sturgeon, an egotistical president wannabee if there was one, likes to pretend she has the authority to do this, that and the other. She once claimed she could veto the UK leaving the EU! She knows very well she can't unilaterally decided to hold another referendum and implement the result as she sees fit without Westminster's approval. Otherwise she's committing treason (shame they abolished capital punishment for treason!).

 

Any referendum that affects the whole UK must include all the people of the UK in it. The UK, a sovereign nation, cannot and will not be dictated to by small group of loudmouth fanatics in one area.

I think they know that Scotland isn't independent which is the whole reason for the second referendum in which they hope to convince people to vote themsevles out of the union.

[welovesundaysatspace]

50 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The problem with Sturgeon and her loony fringe was there before Brexit.

The problem with Ireland was there before Brexit as well. 

 

[tebee]

[david555]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

[vogie]

58 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

But Brexit (If it ever happens) automatically ends Scotland’s membership of the EU.

 

The EU offering membership to Scotland before Scottish Independence would undoubtedly be seen as interference.

 

Don’t mistake that as the EU having any objections to an independent Scotland becoming a member of the EU.

 

But Brexit (If it ever happens) automatically ends Scotland’s membership of the EU.

Brexit (when it happens) automatically ends the United Kingdoms membership of the EU.

 

Don’t mistake that as the EU having any objections to an independent Scotland becoming a member of the EU.

Scotland does not want independence, only the SNP want this, please respect the views of all the Scots when posting.

[puipuitom]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

Don’t mistake that as the EU having any objections to an independent Scotland becoming a member of the EU.

Scotland does not want independence, only the SNP want this, please respect the views of all the Scots when posting.

SNP only needs to be the biggest party in 50%+1 of the Scotish constituencies to have a majority government. The percentage of the people's votes… nobody is interested in according to the British way of democracy

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

SNP only needs to be the biggest party in 50%+1 of the Scotish constituencies to have a majority government. The percentage of the people's votes… nobody is interested in according to the British way of democracy

BTW, the Scots are British!

[david555]

14 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

SNP only needs to be the biggest party in 50%+1 of the Scotish constituencies to have a majority government. The percentage of the people's votes… nobody is interested in according to the British way of democracy

"nobody is interested in according to the British way of democracy"

Even those found 48%of non relevant to 52%..... no need for a 2/3 majority for the" Brexit saga "

So the Scots can have my sympathy ...

Edited April 25, 2019 by david555

[puipuitom]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

BTW, the Scots are British!

So ? ? When the Catalunyans want to break away from Spain ( and with an constitutional illegal referendum with a popular vote of 47,74%, but thanks to a seat-system the mayority in their Parliament and therefore cheered by so many Europeans), why the Scots could not insist for the same ?  Wise ? ? That's another discussion !

[vogie]

1 minute ago, puipuitom said:

So ? ? When the Catalunyans want to break away from Spain ( and with an constitutional illegal referendum with a popular vote of 47,74%, but thanks to a seat-system the mayority in their Parliament and therefore cheered by so many Europeans), why the Scots could not insist for the same ?  Wise ? ? That's another discussion !

Are you on the advocaat or something, as much as you would like the UK to break up, I can only reiterate that Scotland as a whole does not want to break away from the rest of the UK. 

What is "So ? ?" Supposed to mean?

[Kasane]

What goes around, comes around. That bastion of colonialism, not so great Britain, is now losing parts of its island too. Karma conquers in its own way. 

[nauseus]

39 minutes ago, Kasane said:

What goes around, comes around. That bastion of colonialism, not so great Britain, is now losing parts of its island too. Karma conquers in its own way. 

Er....the Scots played a massive part in British empire building.    

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Only Scotland isn't a sovereign nation, or member of the EU, or anything like what the nationalists like to pretend with their bluster and propaganda.

 

Sturgeon, an egotistical president wannabee if there was one, likes to pretend she has the authority to do this, that and the other. She once claimed she could veto the UK leaving the EU! She knows very well she can't unilaterally decided to hold another referendum and implement the result as she sees fit without Westminster's approval. Otherwise she's committing treason (shame they abolished capital punishment for treason!).

 

Any referendum that affects the whole UK must include all the people of the UK in it. The UK, a sovereign nation, cannot and will not be dictated to by small group of loudmouth fanatics in one area.

You can pout and bleat all you like - it doesn't make you any less incorrect. Scotland's future is none of your business - you will have absolutely no part in determining it other than observing from the sidelines as more and more of us contribute time, effort and money towards the dismantling of your precious union. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claim_of_Right_1989

 

"On 4 July 2018, the House of Commons officially endorsed the principles of the Claim of Right, agreeing that the people of Scotland are sovereign and that they have the right to determine the best form of government for Scotland's needs."

 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Are you on the advocaat or something, as much as you would like the UK to break up, I can only reiterate that Scotland as a whole does not want to break away from the rest of the UK. 

What is "So ? ?" Supposed to mean?

Scotland as a whole does not want to break away from the EU, and that has shown to be a deal breaker for many Scots. No to Yes is gathering pace.

[Kasane]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Er....the Scots played a massive part in British empire building.    

Let Karma shower its blessings on all those empire builders.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

BTW, the Scots are British!

And forever will be, barring some geological disaster. But as for being citizens of the United Kingdom, that is a totally different matter.

[Jip99]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Only Scotland isn't a sovereign nation, or member of the EU, or anything like what the nationalists like to pretend with their bluster and propaganda.

 

Sturgeon, an egotistical president wannabee if there was one, likes to pretend she has the authority to do this, that and the other. She once claimed she could veto the UK leaving the EU! She knows very well she can't unilaterally decided to hold another referendum and implement the result as she sees fit without Westminster's approval. Otherwise she's committing treason (shame they abolished capital punishment for treason!).

 

Any referendum that affects the whole UK must include all the people of the UK in it. The UK, a sovereign nation, cannot and will not be dictated to by small group of loudmouth fanatics in one area.

 

 

As a Brexiteer, keen on gaining independence from the EU, I have to support Scotland’s desire for independence. I have always believed in country first, then Kingdom, then Commonwealth, then undemocratic United States of Europe.

 

The key point is desire. If the will of the Scottish people is there to become independent from the U.K. then I wish them all the best for future.

 

They have already expressed a recent  desire to remain within the U.K. and I am not sure the fad for multiple referenda within a short period of time is a good thing.

 

 

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Scotland as a whole does not want to break away from the EU, and that has shown to be a deal breaker for many Scots. No to Yes is gathering pace.

Newcastle as a whole does not want to break away from the EU, but the UK voted as a whole to leave the EU, and as a whole leave got more votes than remain. Looking at the polls it has not altered the Scots opinion of remaining within the UK, I know it means so much to you the leave the United Kingdom and remain within EU, but the majority of Scots do not share your views about independence.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

But Brexit (If it ever happens) automatically ends Scotland’s membership of the EU.

Brexit (when it happens) automatically ends the United Kingdoms membership of the EU.

 

Don’t mistake that as the EU having any objections to an independent Scotland becoming a member of the EU.

Scotland does not want independence, only the SNP want this, please respect the views of all the Scots when posting.

 

At the start of indyref1 support for independence was around the mid 20s and rose to near 50% according to some polls. Since then it has remained largely static in the mid 40s. That means there is already a strong and assured base of support, fervent in their desire to see their objectives met and very aware that there won't be an indyref3 should the next one also end badly.

 

There is, of course, the hardcore of unionists, but they are, if recall correctly, numbering around the mid 20s. What tipped the scales last time were the votes of EU residents who were told that to vote for independence would see them ejected from their homes and work, and those scared by project fear (the Labour lie that pensions will not be paid in an independent Scotland, for example).

 

So  am certain that the campaigns will target the soft middle, but with very few things positive to say about retaining the status quo, indyref2 will be the Yes side's to lose.

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

Newcastle as a whole does not want to break away from the EU, but the UK voted as a whole to leave the EU, and as a whole leave got more votes than remain. Looking at the polls it has not altered the Scots opinion of remaining within the UK, I know it means so much to you the leave the United Kingdom and remain within EU, but the majority of Scots do not share your views about independence.

The majority of Scots? How do you define them? I have posted this many times before, but the majority of people who were born in Scotland voted for independence in the 2014. The referendum failed due to the votes of those who moved to Scotland from elsewhere. 

 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The majority of Scots? How do you define them? I have posted this many times before, but the majority of people who were born in Scotland voted for independence in the 2014. The referendum failed due to the votes of those who moved to Scotland from elsewhere

The poll I had been looking at RR showed a decline in support for independence since 2014.

Make of this as you will.