Acting As Own Lawyer In Thai Court

[fhickson]

Does anybody know if a foreigner can act as their own lawyer in Thai Court?
Would speaking Thai be required or is English spoken?

Edited April 26, 2019 by fhickson

[CharlieH]

I have no personal experience but would think it is not possible. The whole process would be heavily Thai language dependent and unless fluent could even be detrimental.

From other topics I believe repreaentation has to be by sutiably qualified Thai "Thanai" lawyer.

[jonwilly]

I got divorced in a Thai court.

All evidence from me had to go through a Translator recognized as such by the court.

To the best of my knowledge you cannot act as your own 'Lawyer' in a Thai court the lawyer must have done a Thai law course and be qualified as such.

 

john

The Judge was a Thai Lady and spoke perfect English.

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

I have no personal experience but would think it is not possible. The whole process would be heavily Thai language dependent and unless fluent could even be detrimental.

From other topics I believe representation has to be by suitably qualified Thai "Thanai" lawyer.

Correct. Only a Thai national can practice law at Court

[KMartinHandyman]

And where would you get the black robe you have to put on for five minutes while talking to the judge?

[fhickson]

18 hours ago, KMartinHandyman said:

And where would you get the black robe you have to put on for five minutes while talking to the judge?

Thought maybe there was some sort of less formal civil small claims which had a degree of enforceability behind it, like they have in the USA.

 

Just saw a vid though with lawyer trying mediation with no response. Next option was court, so I guess not.

[peebee2]

A litigant can appear in person, without a lawyer in a Thai court. An official interpreter is required. However, the litigant will not be able to ask any questions, even, as it were, of himself. IN effect, he may state his case, but not challenge the evidence of the claimant or any witnesses.

[CharlieH]

derogatory post removed.

 

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[fhickson]

2 hours ago, peebee2 said:

A litigant can appear in person, without a lawyer in a Thai court. An official interpreter is required. However, the litigant will not be able to ask any questions, even, as it were, of himself. IN effect, he may state his case, but not challenge the evidence of the claimant or any witnesses.

Well that is pretty much what I'm looking for.

In this case I'm simply stating my case to the judge and hopefully answering further questions that the judge asks me to get to a fair decision. The final verdict is decided by the judge.

I'm not interested in practicing law or grilling witnesses, just want to give the facts of my side, and have a a judge decide the matter, without me having to pay through the nose for a lawyer. Next question, can I file for the case and will the other party be called to appear even if they are not interested.

[Grumpy Old Man]

The simple answer is NO . . . . . 

 

To perform the duties as a Lawyer or any other legal representative in a Thai Court of Law firstly you have to have a Thai Law Degree and all the other associated qualifications and certification, not forgetting it’s a job reserved for Thai Nationals and then there would be the Work Permit” issue but it’ll not get that far. . . . . 

 

You can attend a Thai Court of Law with only a translator but depending on the issue would this be a wise action. . . . .  

[Grumpy Old Man]

14 minutes ago, fhickson said:

Well that is pretty much what I'm looking for.

In this case I'm simply stating my case to the judge and hopefully answering further questions that the judge asks me to get to a fair decision. The final verdict is decided by the judge.

I'm not interested in practicing law or grilling witnesses, just want to give the facts of my side, and have a a judge decide the matter, without me having to pay through the nose for a lawyer. Next question, can I file for the case and will the other party be called to appear even if they are not interested.

 

The first stage of filing any case or complaint is a “Formal Police Report” The Thai Police have the power to deal with small issues and can issue fines or forward a “Formal Police Report” through the “Thai Prosecution Service” but it is not a fast process.

 

Other parties are normally asked to firstly attend a meeting at a Police Station but other than being formally arrested it’s very hit and miss if they’ll attend, also I have know persons to use delaying tactics even if a meeting has been arranged.

 

I wish you the best of luck with you issue. . . . 

[fhickson]

22 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

 

The first stage of filing any case or complaint is a “Formal Police Report” The Thai Police have the power to deal with small issues and can issue fines or forward a “Formal Police Report” through the “Thai Prosecution Service” but it is not a fast process.

 

Other parties are normally asked to firstly attend a meeting at a Police Station but other than being formally arrested it’s very hit and miss if they’ll attend, also I have know persons to use delaying tactics even if a meeting has been arranged.

 

I wish you the best of luck with you issue. . . . 

Do the police get involved in civil matters or is it just criminal your talking about?

 

My understanding was if there was a monetary dispute without obvious fraud I'm on my own.

 

if I have to pass through the police it's not worth pursuing for me. Could lead to false accusations, bribes or whatever.

Edited April 27, 2019 by fhickson

[Grumpy Old Man]

Yes the Thai Police deal with just about everything at the “Formal Reporting” stage . . . . . . . Without a “Formal Police Complaint / Report” nothing moves forward; they will do their “Investigations” and decide how to proceed from there. 

 

Part of the Police investigations is to invite all parties to a meeting at the Police Station to try and sort things out. 

 

Everything is about evidence and proof.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Grumpy Old Man

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, fhickson said:

My understanding was if there was a monetary dispute without obvious fraud I'm on my own.

To my knowledge – and experience – a plain monetary issue should be forwarded to a Thai lawyer that will write letter(s) first, perhaps followed by a meeting, and thereafter bring the case to legal action through the court, if necessary.

 

Criminal issues shall be directed via police and public prosecutor.

 

You could present your case in writing, together with whatever evidence available, even English writing will work, if you have it translated to Thai language; I talk from experience.

[RJRS1301]

Unless your are Amal Clooney or Geoffrey Robinson or from their chambers and have UN /International Court translators.  

I feel it could be fraught with obstacles and could end in frustration and tears.

 

[fhickson]

7 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Unless your are Amal Clooney or Geoffrey Robinson or from their chambers and have UN /International Court translators.  

I feel it could be fraught with obstacles and could end in frustration and tears.

 

Not if it does not cost much.

 

I have plenty of time, just don't want to pay through the nose for a lawyer and come out losing more then where I am now.

 

Losing the case is preferable to not doing anything in my opinion. At least I tried and the matter is settled.

 

i guess I could just go to the court and try to file a case. If I get booted somewhere in the process, so be it.

 

just hope I don't get in trouble for  making a mockery of the court or back Sassin' the judge or something.

Edited April 27, 2019 by fhickson

[BestB]

You would not be acting as a lawyer per say but act on your own behalf . Speaking Thai in court is highly favourable with judges.

 

this is speaking from experience, because I did it myself and in Thai , my bond ended up being half of what even Thai had to pay for the same offence.

 

judge was “impressed “ or whatever is best word to use and was very accommodating and lenient.

 

it I’d rather stressful though so some words or sounds come out unclear but again judge was very helpful to correct me and confirm.

 

but again thai courts are not like western courts, it is somewhat intimidating.

[fhickson]

 

21 minutes ago, BestB said:

You would not be acting as a lawyer per say but act on your own behalf . Speaking Thai in court is highly favourable with judges.

 

this is speaking from experience, because I did it myself and in Thai , my bond ended up being half of what even Thai had to pay for the same offence.

 

judge was “impressed “ or whatever is best word to use and was very accommodating and lenient.

 

it I’d rather stressful though so some words or sounds come out unclear but again judge was very helpful to correct me and confirm.

 

but again thai courts are not like western courts, it is somewhat intimidating.

That's what I meant "my own behalf", not as lawyer

 

how is the thai court more intimidating then a western court?

Edited April 27, 2019 by fhickson

[DaRoadrunner]

11 hours ago, fhickson said:

My understanding was if there was a monetary dispute without obvious fraud I'm on my own.

As is often the case with these threads, we don't have sufficient info'.

 

How much money is involved? Is it worth pursuing? Have you tried to settle out of court? Is this going to be heard in the main court or the small claims court where you have no right of appeal?

 

Everything has to be in Thai language. Not sure but I think you need to be a lawyer to serve notice on the other party to appear in court.

 

A Thai Judge will not only look at the legal viewpoint, but also take into fair consideration other circumstances.

 

Just because you are right, does not mean you are going to win.... can you prove it in court?

 

Bear in mind this is Thailand, someone may bribe your own lawyer to lose the case!

 

Bottom line.... anything to do with lawyers and courts is to be avoided if possible.

Edited April 27, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[fhickson]

2 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

As is often the case with these threads, we don't have sufficient info'.

 

How much money is involved? Is it worth pursuing? Have you tried to settle out of court? Is this going to be heard in the main court or the small claims court where you have no right of appeal?

 

Everything has to be in Thai language. Not sure but I think you need to be a lawyer to serve notice on the other party to appear in court.

 

A Thai Judge will not only look at the legal viewpoint, but also take into fair consideration other circumstances.

 

Just because you are right, does not mean you are going to win.... can you prove it in court?

 

Bear in mind this is Thailand, someone may bribe your own lawyer to lose the case!

  

Bottom line.... anything to do with lawyers and courts is to be avoided if possible.

It's small claims only and the amount is not worth hiring a lawyer should I lose, otherwise I would do so. Other party is not interested in showing up or settling in any way. Court would have to pressure them to attend. Don't want to hire a lawyer, lose, and owe more for the lawyers services then I'm out now. Not worth that.

Don't want to get into details of the case or whether I would win. Only interested in presenting my side and having the judge decide, and having the court be able to enforce a payment from the other party if I should win. Don't want to get involved with police due to corruption concerns, having the case possibly take on a criminal tone, etc.

 

Why avoid the courts? Just because I may lose, or is there some other risk there? If I lose the case, I lose. No big deal. Willing to accept the courts decision.

Sounds like there is a separate small claims court where you can attend on your own behalf. That's what I need. Maybe I can have a written statement written up, possible with a lawyers assistance, get it translated into Thai, and just submit that to the court without having to verbally state my case. Not great at public presentations anyhow. That would be ideal.

Edited April 27, 2019 by fhickson

[BestB]

8 hours ago, fhickson said:

 

That's what I meant "my own behalf", not as lawyer

 

how is the thai court more intimidating then a western court?

Judge is behind massive glass screen, so all the communications are via mics. No desk for you to sit at but standing by the glass screen. Guards/sheriffs interrupt as they passing not your case related papers to typist/ assistant, judge not bothered as he is behind glass wall, but you are right there 

[fhickson]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

Judge is behind massive glass screen, so all the communications are via mics. No desk for you to sit at but standing by the glass screen. Guards/sheriffs interrupt as they passing not your case related papers to typist/ assistant, judge not bothered as he is behind glass wall, but you are right there 

That sounds sketchy as hell. I was expecting a huge chamber with carved wooden chairs and desks, everyone in expensive suits and robes, and free coffee. Maybe that's the Supreme Court I'm thinking of.

 

If it's going to be like the prison visit thing where you yell across the screen and everyone's making noise, it's a no-go.

Edited April 28, 2019 by fhickson

[BestB]

1 hour ago, fhickson said:

That sounds sketchy as hell. I was expecting a huge chamber with carved wooden chairs and desks, everyone in expensive suits and robes, and free coffee. Maybe that's the Supreme Court I'm thinking of.

 

If it's going to be like the prison visit thing where you yell across the screen and everyone's making noise, it's a no-go.

You do have huge chamber with carved wooden chairs and desks, but judge is still behind massive glass wall. You do not need to scream as mics work well, but still sound is not natural

 

This was my experience in my case in my court room, how other court rooms or cases are i do not know.

 

Everyone keeps quite, but in my case, because of the mics, its little annoying as voice not very clear especially for a non native speaker where you are already concentrating to the max, so as i said, adds more pressure but again as i said, judge is more lenient and favorable.

 

Let me also point out, in my case, i have no idea if judge spoke any English or not, but even when he did not hear me or did not understand, not a single word was said in English, after all its a Thai court, so do not expect for judge to "hear" you if you spoke in English without a translator.

 

All paperwork also in Thai, everything is in Thai

[Orton Rd]

On 4/27/2019 at 1:26 PM, Grumpy Old Man said:

Yes the Thai Police deal with just about everything at the “Formal Reporting” stage . . . . . . . Without a “Formal Police Complaint / Report” nothing moves forward; they will do their “Investigations” and decide how to proceed from there. 

 

Part of the Police investigations is to invite all parties to a meeting at the Police Station to try and sort things out. 

 

Everything is about evidence and proof.

 

 

Oh if only it was about evidence and proof and not opinions or payments, adherence to their own laws would be nice as well!

[DaRoadrunner]

The answer to some of your questions maybe found at the information desk of the small claims court. Otherwise, ask a lawyer..... I suspect you are going to need one at some stage.