Coming week will be important for Brexit negotiation: EU's Barnier

[aright]

4 hours ago, oilinki said:

We have unity of 500 million people. That's pretty great and powerful force. We also have the freedom to live and work where ever we want in our continent. That's pretty great privilege as well. 

Didn't the newspapers in your country report the results of yesterdays Spanish election or what has been going on in Paris every Saturday for the last 24 weeks or the results of EU elections over the last 12 months and the anticipated results of the May elections?

The unity of 500 million people all happy and contented with life?????????

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, aright said:

Didn't the newspapers in your country report the results of yesterdays Spanish election or what has been going on in Paris every Saturday for the last 24 weeks or the results of EU elections over the last 12 months and the anticipated results of the May elections?

The unity of 500 million people all happy and contented with life?????????

What are you talking about? Jumping from Mali to what happens in Guatemala. That's how your rant sounded like. 

 

Please write an coherent reply to be considered seriously.

[aright]

1 minute ago, oilinki said:

What are you talking about? Jumping from Mali to what happens in Guatemala. That's how your rant sounded like. 

 

Please write an coherent reply to be considered seriously.

I can write it for you but I can't understand it for you. 

[superal]

13 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Talking nonsense for the whole world to see on TV is “brave” and “delivering a message” for you? Interesting perspective. 

 

Let’s not talk about some of the other clips friends send me...

 

Like I said, I appreciate everyone’s skills and contributions. I have an issue with people talking nonsense. Unfortunately, it seems these days people feel they’re entitled to have a say in everything, regardless of their competence, and that others somehow are obliged to “respect” even the biggest nonsense as just a different “idea” or “opinion”. 

Public speaking is a skill that is either a natural gift or has to be taught . Many people fail because of nerves and lack of confidence . It is folly to deny the opinions of the quiet man as he may hold some worthy ideas. In my working life I would have daily or weekly meetings with my workforce . Often the topic would be health & safety . I made it my mission to get a contribution from everyone in the way of fresh ideas and opinions . Some of these were not worth considering but the fact that they were involved was important and proved they were paying attention & not day dreaming . Over a period of time the guys who would normally sit at the back were all sat in the front . One guy has a stutter but he overcame it to stand up and speak , much to the delight of his workmates  .

The lady in question had a valid point to make regarding a court case over Brexit plus the public dissatisfaction of the UK governments performance . The audience backed her up and supported her views . They knew she was struggling to speak but the message was delivered in a genuinely emotional & passionate way  Everyone has a right to voice their opinion ( called free speech ) and to deny them  that because you do not agree with them is sad .  I for one believe in Brexit but understand and listen to the stayers who have valid points .

Regarding " Let’s not talk about some of the other clips friends send me..." why post it in the first place if you do not want to talk about it ?

[Kwasaki]

5 hours ago, oilinki said:

What are you talking about? Jumping from Mali to what happens in Guatemala. That's how your rant sounded like. 

 

Please write an coherent reply to be considered seriously.

https://qz.com/721596/brexit-the-longer-view/

[rickudon]

We have had 3 years of debate. A lot has changed in that time. Time for a final, binding referendum on the available options (in/out/the deal). And anyone who says 'Britain has voted already' well, isn't that because you know you will lose? Cynical play on democracy.

[Loiner]

We have had 3 years of debate. A lot has changed in that time. Time for a final, binding referendum on the available options (in/out/the deal). And anyone who says 'Britain has voted already' well, isn't that because you know you will lose? Cynical play on democracy.

3 years and will be almost three and a half by the time we are out. Plenty of time for all the preparations required. No need for any sort of EU transition period, or the non-agreement. Clean cut and out.
No need for another referendum either, because Leave would win again anyway. Honest to goodness democracy.

[rickudon]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

3 years and will be almost three and a half by the time we are out. Plenty of time for all the preparations required. No need for any sort of EU transition period, or the non-agreement. Clean cut and out.
No need for another referendum either, because Leave would win again anyway. Honest to goodness democracy.

So, by your standards, we only need one election in a generation because we already voted once! Lots of new voters, who maybe think differently. And some change their minds.

 

Actually, out of 58 polls done in the last 2 and a half years, leave only won 4 ..... that's why you do not want another referendum.

[CG1 Blue]

15 hours ago, oilinki said:

You could not ever know what it means to us, as you were never really part of our unity.

 

I feel sorry for you. Lonely ones.

I can understand that a small and weak country like yours with no global footprint would want to gang up with other nations. It perhaps makes you feel bigger, safer and more significant. A sort of comfort blanket.

The UK doesn't need that comfort blanket, which is partly why a majority of the people voted to leave the EU. That was even despite the horrific project fear scare stories that were fed to the nation.  

 

[Loiner]

So, by your standards, we only need one election in a generation because we already voted once! Lots of new voters, who maybe think differently. And some change their minds.
 
Actually, out of 58 polls done in the last 2 and a half years, leave only won 4 ..... that's why you do not want another referendum.

Yep. That’s all we need - just the one.
There was only one referendum in the last two and a half years. Any number of polls all mean nothing. They’re not even “only advisory” as Remainers like to say.

[evadgib]

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

3 years and will be almost three and a half by the time we are out. Plenty of time for all the preparations required. No need for any sort of EU transition period, or the non-agreement. Clean cut and out.
No need for another referendum either, because Leave would win again anyway. Honest to goodness democracy.

If we had left on the first Monday after the result was known in 2016 we wouldn't be any worse off than we are as a result of May's fiasco.

[baboon]

5 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I can understand that a small and weak country like yours with no global footprint would want to gang up with other nations. It perhaps makes you feel bigger, safer and more significant. A sort of comfort blanket.

The UK doesn't need that comfort blanket, which is partly why a majority of the people voted to leave the EU. That was even despite the horrific project fear scare stories that were fed to the nation.  

 

But buddy, this is a country that can no longer afford to turn on the bloody street lights until it is more or less pitch black outside. That has set the pension age to 69. Where violent crime victimhood is an increasing terrifying prospect for more and more people.

But our sad, poor - look at the GBPeso - and disunited Kingdom should be swaggering on the world stage and demanding respect from other nations who can turn on the streetlights, repair paving stones so the elderly don't trip over in the gloom and who own their own power, water, railways, airspace... What does the British patriot have to be patriotic about in 2019? Don't you see you have already been sold out? 

[superal]

6 hours ago, baboon said:

But buddy, this is a country that can no longer afford to turn on the bloody street lights until it is more or less pitch black outside. That has set the pension age to 69. Where violent crime victimhood is an increasing terrifying prospect for more and more people.

But our sad, poor - look at the GBPeso - and disunited Kingdom should be swaggering on the world stage and demanding respect from other nations who can turn on the streetlights, repair paving stones so the elderly don't trip over in the gloom and who own their own power, water, railways, airspace... What does the British patriot have to be patriotic about in 2019? Don't you see you have already been sold out? 

Your first paragraph is just part of the Brexit reasons . Austerity measures some 9 years ago from the government , passed to local councils whose budgets were halved or worse . Schools , hospitals , police and government workers etc suffered resulting in many resignations in all fields . The costs of social services to support the massive influx of immigrants from non EU and EU spiraled out of control . Lack of housing to the indigenous UK population has caused much discontent . Loss of jobs for UK citizens to others from within the EU who work for cheaper rates and despite what the government claim , make no contribution .  Indeed all that you quote are some of the reasons why there is a strong Brexit support . 

The soaring crime rates have a correlation with immigration as many of the crimes are committed by immigrants both new and established in the UK along with the lack of police .  In case you don't know Teresa May was once the UK Home Secretary in 2010 and it was she who cut the police budget which resulted in a loss of 20,000 police officers . Now she is the countries leader and making a right xxxxup of Brexit .   The UK needs political changes / reforms , strong leadership and a stable government . The way things are going I can see a deal being signed by corrupt TM that is nothing resembling Brexit .  God help the younger UK generation .

[Loiner]

8 hours ago, baboon said:

What does the British patriot have to be patriotic about in 2019? Don't you see you have already been sold out? 

The sell out started when Ted Heath lied to the country. It continued when the Common Market morphed into its current EU guise and none of the subsequent governments admitted the truth and played their own parts in the expanding plot.
The 2016 referendum was the point when the majority of country said "Stop the sell out". Patriotism starts from then and continues after the UK's Exit. 

[stephenterry]

42 minutes ago, superal said:

Your first paragraph is just part of the Brexit reasons . Austerity measures some 9 years ago from the government , passed to local councils whose budgets were halved or worse . Schools , hospitals , police and government workers etc suffered resulting in many resignations in all fields . The costs of social services to support the massive influx of immigrants from non EU and EU spiraled out of control . Lack of housing to the indigenous UK population has caused much discontent . Loss of jobs for UK citizens to others from within the EU who work for cheaper rates and despite what the government claim , make no contribution .  Indeed all that you quote are some of the reasons why there is a strong Brexit support . 

The soaring crime rates have a correlation with immigration as many of the crimes are committed by immigrants both new and established in the UK along with the lack of police .  In case you don't know Teresa May was once the UK Home Secretary in 2010 and it was she who cut the police budget which resulted in a loss of 20,000 police officers . Now she is the countries leader and making a right xxxxup of Brexit .   The UK needs political changes / reforms , strong leadership and a stable government . The way things are going I can see a deal being signed by corrupt TM that is nothing resembling Brexit .  God help the younger UK generation .

And you don't think after Brexit it will be just the same chaos. Can't blame the EU for the UK government's actions, bearing in mind UK Immigration have the power to refuse any unsuitable person from anywhere in the world DESPITE freedom of movement which can and has been overruled. In other words the UK, as a sovereign government, continues to have the power to ignore the EU directive.

 

And I agree, the UK needs political change, e.g. proportional representation, so as to dismember the first past the post system which favours the two main parties - and then maybe the infighting between Tory and Labour could be negated, and a more stable government could be established. 

 

But here we are today. Complete chaos whether Brexit is enacted or not, and we have eleven years to combat global warming before the oceans begin to swallow up the human race.  

 

What is more important? 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by stephenterry
addition to text.

[malagateddy]

Your first paragraph is just part of the Brexit reasons . Austerity measures some 9 years ago from the government , passed to local councils whose budgets were halved or worse . Schools , hospitals , police and government workers etc suffered resulting in many resignations in all fields . The costs of social services to support the massive influx of immigrants from non EU and EU spiraled out of control . Lack of housing to the indigenous UK population has caused much discontent . Loss of jobs for UK citizens to others from within the EU who work for cheaper rates and despite what the government claim , make no contribution .  Indeed all that you quote are some of the reasons why there is a strong Brexit support . 
The soaring crime rates have a correlation with immigration as many of the crimes are committed by immigrants both new and established in the UK along with the lack of police .  In case you don't know Teresa May was once the UK Home Secretary in 2010 and it was she who cut the police budget which resulted in a loss of 20,000 police officers . Now she is the countries leader and making a right xxxxup of Brexit .   The UK needs political changes / reforms , strong leadership and a stable government . The way things are going I can see a deal being signed by corrupt TM that is nothing resembling Brexit .  God help the younger UK generation .

Excellent Sir..wonderful

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, baboon said:

But buddy, this is a country that can no longer afford to turn on the bloody street lights until it is more or less pitch black outside. That has set the pension age to 69. Where violent crime victimhood is an increasing terrifying prospect for more and more people.

But our sad, poor - look at the GBPeso - and disunited Kingdom should be swaggering on the world stage and demanding respect from other nations who can turn on the streetlights, repair paving stones so the elderly don't trip over in the gloom and who own their own power, water, railways, airspace... What does the British patriot have to be patriotic about in 2019? Don't you see you have already been sold out? 

From Baboon's new book Project Fear Revisited. Available at all well known gash cans.

 

[baboon]

28 minutes ago, nauseus said:

From Baboon's new book Project Fear Revisited. Available at all well known gash cans.

 

No amount of deflection changes the sorry state of the UK. Nor does blaming outsiders. It is us and us alone.

I have no idea what a "Gash can" is and think it is probably better not to speculate aloud on here. Scott might get a little upset. Would my book fit in one? It's a weighty volume...

Edited May 1, 2019 by baboon

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, baboon said:

No amount of deflection changes the sorry state of the UK. Nor does blaming outsiders. It is us and us alone.

I have no idea what a "Gash can" is and think it is probably better not to speculate aloud on here. Scott might get a little upset. Would my book fit in one? It's a weighty volume...

Not deflecting. Blame can be fairly put on successive UK governments, their actions and policies, including their successive submissions to the EU. I'm just tired of posts that exaggerate problems and do my country down but then promote the EU as some kind of divine saviour - it is not.  

 

Gash is navy (RN) slang for rubbish.  

[baboon]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Gash is navy (RN) slang for rubbish. 

I'll stop trawling through the Japanese BDSM sites, then. Every day a school day on Thaivisa...

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, baboon said:

I'll stop trawling through the Japanese BDSM sites, then. Every day a school day on Thaivisa...

Well it's good to see that you are not entirely consumed by the Brexit stuff. I like Japanese food too! ???? 

[CG1 Blue]

13 hours ago, baboon said:

But buddy, this is a country that can no longer afford to turn on the bloody street lights until it is more or less pitch black outside. That has set the pension age to 69. Where violent crime victimhood is an increasing terrifying prospect for more and more people.

But our sad, poor - look at the GBPeso - and disunited Kingdom should be swaggering on the world stage and demanding respect from other nations who can turn on the streetlights, repair paving stones so the elderly don't trip over in the gloom and who own their own power, water, railways, airspace... What does the British patriot have to be patriotic about in 2019? Don't you see you have already been sold out? 

You paint a gloomy picture, and I agree we've been badly let down by governments so far this millennium. But being in the EU hasn't prevented any of this from happening has it? 

[rickudon]

The question is, what caused the parlous state of the UK? WAS it the EU, or would it have happened anyway, or would it have been worse? Back in the 1970's, the economy was in a chronic state, strikes all the time, power cuts, sugar rationing and even toilet paper running out.

 

The UK did climb out of that, but at a cost. UK industry was ruthlessly cut rather than invested in, so much so that in the black country whole communities of small workshops were bulldozed and turned into parks. I also remember walking past the British Leyland factory at Longbridge - that took half an hour. All gone, along with the coal industry. Ok, they were no longer fit for there purpose but the closures destroyed entire communities and put many on benefits who never worked again. 

 

The world is now a different place. All those overseas markets we used to have have been fulfilled by Asia. Getting back market share will not be easy, until workers in the UK are paid like asians .... the EU might be a giant nanny state, but it protected it's member states.

 

The USA might have a reasonable economy currently, but remember Detroit and many other areas also suffered terrible de-industrialisation. And they also had a financial recession (which spread to UK and then Europe). And they were not in the EU ..... The current 'Boom' is just the post recession bounce back.

 

Anyone who thinks Brexit is the answer will be disillusioned. Free of the EU, a UK government will drive down benefits and push half the workforce into poverty, so that employers can reduce wages and make money again. Hope you believe in trickle down economics!

 

Of course this plan will be upset if Corbyn gets into power ..... he will ensure everyone is poor!

[dick dasterdly]

37 minutes ago, rickudon said:

The question is, what caused the parlous state of the UK? WAS it the EU, or would it have happened anyway, or would it have been worse? Back in the 1970's, the economy was in a chronic state, strikes all the time, power cuts, sugar rationing and even toilet paper running out.

 

The UK did climb out of that, but at a cost. UK industry was ruthlessly cut rather than invested in, so much so that in the black country whole communities of small workshops were bulldozed and turned into parks. I also remember walking past the British Leyland factory at Longbridge - that took half an hour. All gone, along with the coal industry. Ok, they were no longer fit for there purpose but the closures destroyed entire communities and put many on benefits who never worked again. 

 

The world is now a different place. All those overseas markets we used to have have been fulfilled by Asia. Getting back market share will not be easy, until workers in the UK are paid like asians .... the EU might be a giant nanny state, but it protected it's member states.

 

The USA might have a reasonable economy currently, but remember Detroit and many other areas also suffered terrible de-industrialisation. And they also had a financial recession (which spread to UK and then Europe). And they were not in the EU ..... The current 'Boom' is just the post recession bounce back.

 

Anyone who thinks Brexit is the answer will be disillusioned. Free of the EU, a UK government will drive down benefits and push half the workforce into poverty, so that employers can reduce wages and make money again. Hope you believe in trickle down economics!

 

Of course this plan will be upset if Corbyn gets into power ..... he will ensure everyone is poor!

"Free of the EU, a UK government will drive down benefits and push half the workforce into poverty, so that employers can reduce wages and make money again. Hope you believe in trickle down economics!"

 

That was my fear too, which is one of the reasons why I didn't vote.

 

But if our MPs are forced to accept the referendum result, it may result in them giving more respect to the electorate?  Certainly, if they are allowed to get away with ignoring the referendum result they will care even less about the electorate....

[nontabury]

On 4/30/2019 at 10:04 AM, rickudon said:

We have had 3 years of debate. A lot has changed in that time. Time for a final, binding referendum on the available options (in/out/the deal). And anyone who says 'Britain has voted already' well, isn't that because you know you will lose? Cynical play on democracy.

 

 That has been the establishments plan all along,in the hope that the people would relent under the incessant remain propaganda, as happened in the Irish Republic. However they failed to understand the resentment and the determination of the British people. 

 

 

[tebee]

4 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Free of the EU, a UK government will drive down benefits and push half the workforce into poverty, so that employers can reduce wages and make money again. Hope you believe in trickle down economics!"

 

That was my fear too, which is one of the reasons why I didn't vote.

 

But if our MPs are forced to accept the referendum result, it may result in them giving more respect to the electorate?  Certainly, if they are allowed to get away with ignoring the referendum result they will care even less about the electorate....

But if respecting the referendum results in an economic downturn and rising dissatisfaction with the politicians who did it and they all end up being voted out of office, then there will be a powerful incentive to ignore the public in future and reliy on their own opinions instead, which is what they are supposed to do in a representative democracy in the first place.

[baboon]

12 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Free of the EU, a UK government will drive down benefits and push half the workforce into poverty, so that employers can reduce wages and make money again. Hope you believe in trickle down economics!"

 

That was my fear too, which is one of the reasons why I didn't vote.

 

But if our MPs are forced to accept the referendum result, it may result in them giving more respect to the electorate?  Certainly, if they are allowed to get away with ignoring the referendum result they will care even less about the electorate....

They aren't ignoring it. They just don't know what to do. Just leave now and damn the consequences? You have alienated half the country. Just scrap Article 50 and carry on? You alienate the other half. Either way they are screwed. Especially when the two major parties are mainly concerned with their own survival.

 

I hope for compromise. But I am not optimistic to say the least. If and when we are described as a failed state abroad, we will only have ourselves to blame.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

 

[superal]

7 hours ago, baboon said:

They aren't ignoring it. They just don't know what to do. Just leave now and damn the consequences? You have alienated half the country. Just scrap Article 50 and carry on? You alienate the other half. Either way they are screwed. Especially when the two major parties are mainly concerned with their own survival.

 

I hope for compromise. But I am not optimistic to say the least. If and when we are described as a failed state abroad, we will only have ourselves to blame.

And that is why we are in the mess that we find ourselves in .  We have gone into battle with a pacifist as our leader so to speak or similarly  asking an Atheist to give a sermon to a packed congregation . Or could it be a conflict of interests? Her husband , Philip and apparently her unofficial adviser , a senior executive of a huge investment company with personal shares in the worlds biggest defence company , Lockheed Martin ,   which have made billions for him over the bombing of Syria that was a clandestine decision of TM .   I simply do not trust TM or her backers .  

 As the Home Secretary & PM  she has damaged the UK but has the defiant face to say her actions are / were for the good of the country .  Her Tory ministers are also guilty by association . She is costing UK businesses billions of pounds using her tactics but seems unconcerned . She has also ignored the views of her cabinet who preferred a " No Deal " scenario a month ago .

[evadgib]

Despite the deliberate lack of coverage the case against the PM re UK leaving on 29 March hasn't gone away:

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by evadgib