Thai workers demand Bt5k monthly pension

[gunderhill]

5 hours ago, edwinchester said:

There is vat on most products so just about everything they, or for that matter you, buy means they will be contributing tax to the Government's coffers.

You know what I mean, they need to PAY  more to get more its doesnt come free in any country, Look at Norway they have great pensions  but  hell they sure  have to pay  a lot of income   tax,  not only that when they die their Thai widows get a  good  chunk of it too. Seems everyone wants something for  nothing.

[edwinchester]

30 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

You know what I mean, they need to PAY  more to get more its doesnt come free in any country, Look at Norway they have great pensions  but  hell they sure  have to pay  a lot of income   tax,  not only that when they die their Thai widows get a  good  chunk of it too. Seems everyone wants something for  nothing.

I for one don't mind paying more tax if it means helping others much less fortunate than myself.

I have a couple of Norwegian friends, they seem very happy with the system there.

[nong38]

6 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Its not only pensions that are useless, the whole Thai welfare system is inadequate.  But, in the words of a Thai friend who lives in Norway and is hugely impressed by their welfare system "if Thai people want a good welfare system, they're going to have to learn to pay taxes".  She's absolutely correct, governments don't simply print more money when they need it - they raise it through taxes.

This is the problem and how to solve it. If you work for a company or the Government you cannot avoid paying tax, same as VAT but if you don't like small shops and independent street traders for example they don't fill out a tax return therefore they don't pay taxes and you can see why they don't fill one out they would be daft to. Mind you they would still like all the benefits as well. The Government have decide what to do in this case, they seem to have enough people on the payroll maybe they should send them out to get the tax returns coming in rather than sit there doing paper work by the ream which could be avoided with a more efficient system.

[Srikcir]

7 hours ago, ocddave said:

I've been demanding a $1,000,000 a year from SS in the US too, I'll let you know how that pans out.

You get back what you pay in but pay in and payout are capped.

• The maximum possible Social Security benefit payable to someone retiring at their full retirement age in 2018 is $2,788 per month, which translates to $33,456 per year.
• For 2018, the maximum amount of earnings that can be taxed for Social Security is $128,400.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/much-earn-max-social-security-103700179.html

But who knows, maybe you can strike a special deal that you pay in $1 million per year for 35 years and SS will pay you back $250k per year for life.

 

[Srikcir]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

Prayut vague over workers’ demand for Bt5,000 a month pension

But if another pay raise for the military and civil service, Prayut won't be so vague.

[Isaanbiker]

Well, if my Thai social security number would exist in the system, I'd go for it as well. Unfortunately, are foreigners' numbers made up and just a pile of sh-te and do not exist in the system.

 

   

[johng]

11 hours ago, gunderhill said:

how  many of them pay any taxes.

Everyone pays VAT...if they work then social security is supposed to be deducted from pay and employer  pays the same amount...lots of employers try to avoid paying this.

[teacherofwoe]

1 hour ago, nong38 said:

This is the problem and how to solve it. If you work for a company or the Government you cannot avoid paying tax, same as VAT but if you don't like small shops and independent street traders for example they don't fill out a tax return therefore they don't pay taxes and you can see why they don't fill one out they would be daft to. Mind you they would still like all the benefits as well. The Government have decide what to do in this case, they seem to have enough people on the payroll maybe they should send them out to get the tax returns coming in rather than sit there doing paper work by the ream which could be avoided with a more efficient system.

Yes, you get taxed and your employer deducts every month, but you go to the tax office at the end of the fiscal year and claim the money back that lies under the threshold. I'm married and a father of two which means I can earn over B30,000 a month before I pay income tax. There are a few other bits and bobs that I claim for which takes my non taxable income to about B34,000 a month.

Businesses that have a revenue less than B1.8 million don't file for corporate tax which covers the bulk of independent retailers, eateries, and mom and pop shops. I have a business that doesn't pay corporate tax (salaries yes) because it is cheaper to buy local products than to purchase from large companies and then claim the VAT back.

Outside of big to med corp, I would wager that most of the country doesn't pay any Income Tax, or fiddles their books because the chances of a tax inspector turning up is unheard of. 

[gunderhill]

1 hour ago, johng said:

Everyone pays VAT...if they work then social security is supposed to be deducted from pay and employer  pays the same amount...lots of employers try to avoid paying this.

Yeah  well they need  to pay more to get a  decent  pension.

[gunderhill]

6 hours ago, edwinchester said:

I for one don't mind paying more tax if it means helping others much less fortunate than myself.

I do because it  opens the door for the lazy who "expect" to get it for  nothing.

[Ulic]

5000 baht a month is not unreasonable, but for that workers would have to register and contribute to a government investment plan. How many workers are willing to be involved in such a system for 30-40 years.

[nong38]

1 hour ago, teacherofwoe said:

Yes, you get taxed and your employer deducts every month, but you go to the tax office at the end of the fiscal year and claim the money back that lies under the threshold. I'm married and a father of two which means I can earn over B30,000 a month before I pay income tax. There are a few other bits and bobs that I claim for which takes my non taxable income to about B34,000 a month.

Businesses that have a revenue less than B1.8 million don't file for corporate tax which covers the bulk of independent retailers, eateries, and mom and pop shops. I have a business that doesn't pay corporate tax (salaries yes) because it is cheaper to buy local products than to purchase from large companies and then claim the VAT back.

Outside of big to med corp, I would wager that most of the country doesn't pay any Income Tax, or fiddles their books because the chances of a tax inspector turning up is unheard of. 

That YOU can claim back but a Thai cannot that is why so many independent traders don't fill a tax return out and get registered. No Tax inspector wants to lose face its easier for them to stay in the office and not bother people life is easier that way and it sure beats getting shot!

[maprao]

Now I fully  understand why we have to have 65k to retire here. Silly me!

[DrTuner]

7 hours ago, edwinchester said:

I for one don't mind paying more tax if it means helping others much less fortunate than myself.

I have a couple of Norwegian friends, they seem very happy with the system there.

They have salaries high enough to offset it. Other countries aren't as fortunate, high taxes but still low salaries.

 

The secret sauce is not in the amount of taxes, but the effectiveness of the use of the tax money. Never seen a government that hasn't lost at least half of it for some nonsense, f.ex. "feminist studies" at university level or just plain old bureaucratic inefficiencies.

 

In most cases a lot of tax money is being used to basically bribe government workers to vote for the party that proposes the highest taxes. When the government grows fat enough it becomes self sustaining. Aaaand cue in Thailand and it's entitled civil "servants"...

 

This is about pensions though and they are often another mandatory payment and end up in some pension fund for a few speculators to play with and get rich off. Same same but different.

[mommysboy]

It's all about tax reforms.

[chama]

No election looming = no increase in wages or benefits. But you will be treated to lots of smoke and mirrors. Get some popcorn and enjoy the show....if you can afford the popcorn.

[bkk6060]

On 5/1/2019 at 5:35 AM, nong38 said:

5000 bts a month is not a lot to live on ut you might just about scrape through with luck and eating from the hedgerows. 

Well, I have read many on TV bragging about living on that.

 

[rickudon]

Reality -most Thai 'pensioners' get 600-700 baht a month state pension - try living on that. Some get nothing. I would say a 5,000 baht a month pension would be fair - still less than 200 baht a day to live on. The days of living off your children are now disappearing too - with an average of only 1.5 children per woman - in future there will be too few children too support them.

 

Taxes. Yes, 7% VAT on nearly everything. But not the only taxes .... Alcohol is taxed. Tobacco is taxed, Cars are taxed, Imported goods often have high tariffs. And those small traders also pay 'taxes' (i would call them more licences). My wife pays one to sell spirits, another for tobacco, another for just having a shop  and another for having a sign (ever wondered why most small shops do not have a name on them?)

 

So most people pay far more than 7% of their income on 'taxes'. It is obvious from Thailand's bloated bureaucracy that the government has plenty of income. 

 

So, how much of a person's 300 baht a day income should they put aside towards their pension? Apart from cash for destitute parents, bringing up children, etc. Most only have a few baht (my wife as self employed pays into a government scheme but it is capped at 100 baht a month, guess that will provide a good pension!).

 

There is a reason why you see many little old ladies wandering around villages all shrivelled up, they are trying to live on 20 baht a day and sporadic contributions from family. Their husbands worked out what sort of life on a pension would be like and took the Lao Khao pension (dead from liver failure by the age of 60), or, like my father-in-law, still working at 78 .... he says he might try and grow rice this year (gave up 2 years ago). But he is lucky to be healthy for his age.

[LongTang]

On 5/1/2019 at 12:25 PM, Lacessit said:

The natives are restless, and justifiably so.

When my GF's father turned 80, his pension went from 600 baht/month to a munificent 800 baht/month.

Interesting, And if people in his position with no family to support them will go begging, they will now find themselves  with some heavy fines and jail time.

 

Great system i must admit..

[ocddave]

Well they can pay in 12.4% of their salary into SS and 2.9% into Medicare, like we do in the US, but I doubt that will happen.