Democrats amplify pressure on Trump as Pelosi accuses Barr of 'crime'

[riclag]

4 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Part of governing the country is making sure the kids don't set it on fire.  Presently, 308 resolutions have passed at least one chamber or become law.  If we had a sane, law-abiding president, congress would be more productive.

Sane -Your opinion of the POTUS is consistent with liberals and the left!

Edited May 3, 2019 by riclag

[mogandave]

The Mueller report finds no evidence conspiracy with Russia that meets the level for criminal prosecution WITHIN an investigation that was obstructed by the people under investigation. 
 
 

So it is your position that Trump is/was an agent of Russia conspiring to harm the United States, and but for Trump’s obstruction, Mueller would have proven such?

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

And how does it change whats in Muellars report? did you read it?

 

They don't need to. They already believe what the Democrats, NYT etc told them it should be. And just like good Sheeple they don't want to think or challenge what they're told by their leaders.

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

So if Trump was not conspiring with Russian against the United States, what was the “justice” he was obstructing?

 

 

I answered this in another discussion two days ago, so I will just quote my own post verbatim:

 

 

Listen to Fox "News" legal expert Judge Andrew Napolitano explain it:

 

"When the president asked Corey Lewandowski, his former campaign manager to get Mueller fired, that’s obstruction of justice.

 

When the president asked his then WH council to get Mueller fired and then lie about it, that’s obstruction of justice.

 

When he asked Don McGahn to go back to the special counsel and change his testimony, that’s obstruction of justice.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[Hanaguma]

39 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

I answered this in another discussion two days ago, so I will just quote my own post verbatim:

 

 

Listen to Fox "News" legal expert Judge Andrew Napolitano explain it:

 

"When the president asked Corey Lewandowski, his former campaign manager to get Mueller fired, that’s obstruction of justice.

 

When the president asked his then WH council to get Mueller fired and then lie about it, that’s obstruction of justice.

 

When he asked Don McGahn to go back to the special counsel and change his testimony, that’s obstruction of justice.

 

 

When you need to resort to quoting  a Fox news expert, you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.  Especially Judge Napolitano. Especially when discussing actions without discussing their underlying intent. 

 

The thing that we need to ponder is why, for three years, this false conspiracy story dominated the news and the political scene. Trump wasn't working with the Russians. His campaign wasn't working with the Russians.  I prefer listening to less biased actual journalists on this subject- Glenn Greenwald, for example has done great reporting on the entire fiasco.

[Baerboxer]

42 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

He had the option of handing the report over to congress, but did not.  If he didn't want to review the evidence and support Mueller's conclusion, he should not have issued his summary.  He could have immediately released Mueller's executive summaries, which were intended for public consumption and required no redactions.

 

He could have absolved himself of the need to review the evidence by immediately releasing the Mueller report to congress and letting them review it.  Nobody would have had a problem with that.

 

The problem is that he released a summary that was factually at odds with Mueller's findings, let that inaccurate summary sit in the public domain effectively misleading people for four weeks, giving Fox "News" enough time to convince the Trump Base that its lies were, in fact, truth.

 

Now the damage has been done.  Now that we have the report, we can see Barr's words were at odds with Mueller's findings but Trump's Base has only enough brain cells to remember Barr's exculpatory summary regardless of what the actual report says.

 

He released a summary of the findings i.e the verdict; the bottom line which people were interested in.

 

How is that factually at odds with Mueller's report. Are you trying to claim that Mueller said there was proof of collusion?

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

When you need to resort to quoting  a Fox news expert, you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel.  Especially Judge Napolitano. Especially when discussing actions without discussing their underlying intent. 

 

The thing that we need to ponder is why, for three years, this false conspiracy story dominated the news and the political scene. Trump wasn't working with the Russians. His campaign wasn't working with the Russians.  I prefer listening to less biased actual journalists on this subject- Glenn Greenwald, for example has done great reporting on the entire fiasco.

 

For three years - the Democrats hoped for the last three yeas that if they kept shaking the tree hard enough, things would fall out they could exploit. The Russian collusion was just the excuse to keep shaking. Anything and everything they could exploit and use they have and will do. 

 

The thing to ponder is why the Democrats resort to Stalinesque type use of the justice system as a political weapon? Sure they can't stand anyone beating them, attracting more votes, or having a different opinion, but maybe they really don't actually like democracy per se, because like so many left leaning liberals, they believe they and only they know best.

[attrayant]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

He released a summary of the findings i.e the verdict; the bottom line which people were interested in.

 

An inaccurate one.  How do we know it's inaccurate?  Because brainless people are now shouting "no obstruction" based on the Barr summary, when that is not what Mueller found.

 

 

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

How is that factually at odds with Mueller's report. Are you trying to claim that Mueller said there was proof of collusion?

 

 

The fact that Mueller had to write letters to Barr showing his disappointment with how Barr had characterized his work should be enough.  Mueller's words:

 

“The summary letter the Department sent to Congress and released to the public late in the afternoon of March 24 did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this office’s work and conclusions. There is now public confusion about critical aspects of the results of our investigation. This threatens to undermine a central purpose for which the Department appointed the Special Counsel: to assure full public confidence in the outcome of the investigations.”

 

If anyone should be able to say whether the summary and actual report were in sync, is would be Mueller.

[Thaidream]

9 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

And how does it change whats in Muellars report? did you read it?

I did and it  is obvious that Trump's actions are obstruction of justice.  What is worse is that he was and is willing to allow a hostile foreign power-Russia to interfere in a Presidential election as long as he got elected.  The FBI did their job and investigated- just l;ike they would investigate any American who had meetings with Russian or other potential foreign actors who intended to penetrate the US Government.

 

Actually- Articles of Impeachment would be the way to move forward and the US House would certainly have the votes.  However- I doubt the Senate would convict Trump as the Repubs still hold a majority.  For conviction the Senate would have to vote 67 for removal.

 

There are way too many politicians and average citizens who are willing to allow a person like Trump to remain in power; be compromised by a foreign power, as long as their gravy train continues.

 

The greatest danger to the American Republic is the current occupant of the White House who  refuses to understand he is compromised and refuses to believe  his own Intelligence Agencies and FBI.

 

There so many things wrong with Trump's Presidency that  one could write a book on  Trump and never be able to cover all the deceptions; lies; immorality this man has engendered or is capable of.  He has made a mockery of decency and justice and is a laughing stock and pariah to the rest of the World.

[mogandave]

 
The fact that Mueller had to write letters to Barr showing his disappointment with how Barr had characterized his work should be enough.  Mueller's words:
 

“The summary letter the Department sent to Congress and released to the public late in the afternoon of March 24 did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this office’s work and conclusions. There is now public confusion about critical aspects of the results of our investigation. This threatens to undermine a central purpose for which the Department appointed the Special Counsel: to assure full public confidence in the outcome of the investigations.”

 

If anyone should be able to say whether the summary and actual report were in sync, is would be Mueller.

Mueller said the summary was not inaccurate.

[mogandave]

 
“...There is now public confusion about critical aspects of the results of our investigation. This threatens to undermine a central purpose for which the Department appointed the Special Counsel: to assure full public confidence in the outcome of the investigations.”

Could this not as easily mean the people that believe Trump is in fact guilty of obstructing justice are confused?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

So it is your position that Trump is/was an agent of Russia conspiring to harm the United States, and but for Trump’s obstruction, Mueller would have proven such?

 

I believe Trump and a number of Republicans in both Senate and Congress have made a number of decisions and statements that are directly favorable to Russia/Putin while coincidentally harmful to the US and US allies.

 

As for whether Mueller would have proven such, that was not Mueller’s remit.

 

It May of course be part of the Counter Intelligence investigation that is continuing.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/counterintelligence-investigation-trump-team-russia-hasn-t-stopped-n996486

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Mueller said the summary was not inaccurate.

 

Please quote the whole sentence in which you assert he made this claim.

[riclag]

46 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I did and it  is obvious that Trump's actions are obstruction of justice.  What is worse is that he was and is willing to allow a hostile foreign power-Russia to interfere in a Presidential election as long as he got elected.  The FBI did their job and investigated- just l;ike they would investigate any American who had meetings with Russian or other potential foreign actors who intended to penetrate the US Government.

 

Actually- Articles of Impeachment would be the way to move forward and the US House would certainly have the votes.  However- I doubt the Senate would convict Trump as the Repubs still hold a majority.  For conviction the Senate would have to vote 67 for removal.

 

There are way too many politicians and average citizens who are willing to allow a person like Trump to remain in power; be compromised by a foreign power, as long as their gravy train continues.

 

The greatest danger to the American Republic is the current occupant of the White House who  refuses to understand he is compromised and refuses to believe  his own Intelligence Agencies and FBI.

 

There so many things wrong with Trump's Presidency that  one could write a book on  Trump and never be able to cover all the deceptions; lies; immorality this man has engendered or is capable of.  He has made a mockery of decency and justice and is a laughing stock and pariah to the rest of the World.

You and I  obviously don't know enough about constitutional law ,Mr Barr and  the dept of OIG are  well versed in it! You and I can listen to all the media pudits left and right but in the end the POTUS is cleared of Obstruction and conspiracy with Russians ,no charges. This was all a political hoax to stop the POTUS!

He did not allow a hostile foreign power to interfere if anybody it was the previous administration who neglected to to be more proactive in Russian interference!

"Mary Anne Marsh, once a senior adviser for former Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., told Fox News that she did not "believe the Obama team and President Obama did enough," even though there were clear signs of Russian intent to manipulate the outcome of the 2016 presidential election".

 

Your comment "The greatest danger to the American Republic is the current occupant of the White House who  refuses to understand he is compromised and refuses to believe  his own Intelligence Agencies and FBI".

I must admit it is the very people your talking about that the President has said that some are conflicted(treasonous ,attempted coup).

 The mockery is on both sides

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/democratic-strategist-rips-obama-for-not-doing-enough-to-stop-russian-election-meddling

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by riclag

[Thakkar]

9 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

well evidently he did since he accurately told us what was in there. So do you dispute whats in the report?

“Accurately?”

 

If you cannot be bothered to read the Mueller Report for fear of what you might find there, read at least the short letter Mueller sent to Barr after Barr released his misleading summery. The letter is now public:

 

https://games-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/72509902-0d00-41e8-9795-908605cdcc03/note/643498f3-abea-4f98-a140-68032b6e80d7.pdf

 

In it, Mueller says that Barr (in his summery) “did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance” of Mueller’s work.

 

“Context, nature, and substance” is in fact EVERYTHING. Mueller is saying that Barr lied to the American people. 

 

If you Trump supporters enjoy being lied to just to claim some warped kind of “win” then have at it. But know that you are only fooling yourselves.

[mogandave]

I believe Trump and a number of Republicans in both Senate and Congress have made a number of decisions and statements that are directly favorable to Russia/Putin while coincidentally harmful to the US and US allies.

For example?

[mogandave]

Please quote the whole sentence in which you assert he made this claim.

To what end?

[Thakkar]

6 hours ago, norfolkc said:

American politics are now looking as stupid as the UK thanks to the Democrat's in their time of controlling congress they have done nothing for the American people why vote for them all they do is go after Trump he won the election 2 years ago get over it 

Actually, the House has passed several important legislation that is now stuck in the GOP-controlled Senate where Mitch Mcconnell refuses to even allow debate on them. 

[riclag]

8 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Actually, the House has passed several important legislation that is now stuck in the GOP-controlled Senate where Mitch Mcconnell refuses to even allow debate on them. 

democracy at work, this has been a tactic for many many decades by the politicians on both sides in my country

Edited May 3, 2019 by riclag

[Thaidream]

Actually- I believe that Trump is very afraid that some US agency will find evidence of Russian interference and that his election is illegitimate and Clinton actually won.

  The problem is if it is true-neither Trump nor his supporters  can or will accept  the truth- They will only accept that his Presidency is legitimate. And if it is true that the Russians have elected him- how far is their penetration of the US Government.

 

Until proven otherwise- I accept he is President and there was no collusion. However- instead of simply telling the truth and allowing everyone else to tell the truth- Trump has interfered in the search for the truth. Whether he obstructed justice is left up to the prosecutors and/or the US Congress and the voting public.

 

I am certain of one thing- Donald Trump is dangerous for America and the World.   While I think he lacks any moral base; lacks any decency and lacks any compassion for others that does not necessarily disqualifies him .  What makes him dangerous is his utter incompetence and even worse- he refuses to believe the experts  that work for the US Government and people.

 

Trump's lies; distortion of the truth;  narcissistic arrogance  have made him a pariah to the rest of the World at a time when America needs allies and friends due to serious foreign issues.

 

The man has no depth- he cannot articulate response to complex issues because he has no understanding of how to solve them.  He lashes out at anyone who might have a new idea; have a way to solve an issue or get an opinion from anyone including experts that he disagrees with.

 

A perfect example of Trump's complete lack of understanding the ramifications of his orders were during the  most recent confrontation between North Korea and  the US.  Trump ordered the then Sec of Defense General Mattis to  remove all US Dependents from South Korea.  Mattis refused the order- knowing full well such a scenario would send a message to the North that the US was preparing for a war and the North just might make a first strike.

 

The man is incompetent and must be removed from office either by Impeachment or the Vote.  It will be interesting to see if the American public has finally figured out what Trump really is- a narcissistic megalomaniac who cares only for himself.

[Becker]

35 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

To what end?

 

To preserve a fraction of your credibility.

[Thakkar]

4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Now the best that can be mustered is a lame stab at obstruction. Obstruction that has no related criminal charge. Obstruction that didnt actually happen. Mueller at no time said that his investigation was in any way impeded. 

 

Lemme get this straight. So, if Trump had *succeeded* in obstructing justice, he would then, and only then, be guilty of obstructing justice.

 

But if he had succeeded, there would *be* no case against him, because, you know, he would have...succeeded! 

 

But he’d be guilty because he succeeded but at the same time innocent by making sure there’d be no case.

 

is this some kind of Shrödinger’s Trump??

[riclag]

47 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Actually- I believe that Trump is very afraid that some US agency will find evidence of Russian interference and that his election is illegitimate and Clinton actually won.

  The problem is if it is true-neither Trump nor his supporters  can or will accept  the truth- They will only accept that his Presidency is legitimate. And if it is true that the Russians have elected him- how far is their penetration of the US Government.

 

Until proven otherwise- I accept he is President and there was no collusion. However- instead of simply telling the truth and allowing everyone else to tell the truth- Trump has interfered in the search for the truth. Whether he obstructed justice is left up to the prosecutors and/or the US Congress and the voting public.

 

I am certain of one thing- Donald Trump is dangerous for America and the World.   While I think he lacks any moral base; lacks any decency and lacks any compassion for others that does not necessarily disqualifies him .  What makes him dangerous is his utter incompetence and even worse- he refuses to believe the experts  that work for the US Government and people.

 

Trump's lies; distortion of the truth;  narcissistic arrogance  have made him a pariah to the rest of the World at a time when America needs allies and friends due to serious foreign issues.

 

The man has no depth- he cannot articulate response to complex issues because he has no understanding of how to solve them.  He lashes out at anyone who might have a new idea; have a way to solve an issue or get an opinion from anyone including experts that he disagrees with.

 

A perfect example of Trump's complete lack of understanding the ramifications of his orders were during the  most recent confrontation between North Korea and  the US.  Trump ordered the then Sec of Defense General Mattis to  remove all US Dependents from South Korea.  Mattis refused the order- knowing full well such a scenario would send a message to the North that the US was preparing for a war and the North just might make a first strike.

 

The man is incompetent and must be removed from office either by Impeachment or the Vote.  It will be interesting to see if the American public has finally figured out what Trump really is- a narcissistic megalomaniac who cares only for himself.

"Barr also went a step further, saying there was evidence that Trump was the victim of false accusations.

Trump has been dogged “by two years of allegations — by allegations that have now been proven false,” he said. At various points during the hearing, Barr said Trump was “falsely accused” of colluding with Russians and being a Russian agent, and that the investigation was initiated “without a basis.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/u-s-attorney-general-barr-accused-of-lying-to-congress-faces-calls-to-resign

 

Because of the hate of man that wanted change from the last 50 years of politics and was elected for his agenda of  CHANGE,America is at a historic moment in its history  The Media and the Dems used

Deception

Bribes

to try undermine a democratically elected POTUS!

The people and agencies who tried this are the ones that are worried, not Mr. Trump.

https://newspunch.com/ig-horowitz-fbi-agents-bribes-cnn-ny-times/

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by riclag

[mogandave]

Actually, the House has passed several important legislation that is now stuck in the GOP-controlled Senate where Mitch Mcconnell refuses to even allow debate on them. 

What important legislation is being held up?

[mogandave]

To preserve a fraction of your credibility.

That would require someone on the left to be openminded.

I’m on my phone and can’t post a link but it’s easy enough to to Google.

Are you claiming he didn’t say it? If I show that he did say it, will you coincide the accuracy of summary?

I thought not.

[Thakkar]

Deleted

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Thakkar

[Becker]

14 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

That would require someone on the left to be openminded.

I’m on my phone and can’t post a link but it’s easy enough to to Google.

Are you claiming he didn’t say it? If I show that he did say it, will you coincide the accuracy of summary?

I thought not.

 

Disregard post # 111 - too late already.

[candide]

58 minutes ago, riclag said:

"Barr also went a step further, saying there was evidence that Trump was the victim of false accusations.

Trump has been dogged “by two years of allegations — by allegations that have now been proven false,” he said. At various points during the hearing, Barr said Trump was “falsely accused” of colluding with Russians and being a Russian agent, and that the investigation was initiated “without a basis.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/u-s-attorney-general-barr-accused-of-lying-to-congress-faces-calls-to-resign

 

Because of the hate of man that wanted change from the last 50 years of politics and was elected for his agenda of  CHANGE,America is at a historic moment in its history  The Media and the Dems used

Deception

Bribes

to try undermine a democratically elected POTUS!

The people and agencies who tried this are the ones that are worried, not Mr. Trump.

https://newspunch.com/ig-horowitz-fbi-agents-bribes-cnn-ny-times/

 

 

 

You fail to mention that the leaks allegedly resulting from bribes to FBI agents were about Clinton's email and detrimental to HC, not Trump. Lol.

[Kasane]

I like it the the Dems are growing a pair. Donald's went unchallenged for two years but looks like the blue wave may drown him. Good for democracy, however flawed it maybe.

[Kasane]

Barr heading behind bars for crime of lying to congress?